Remotely Read Meters

[checkthisout]

The power company is in the process of installing these.

When they are done you will actually be able to look online and see what your power meter is currently reading.

They supposedly have a program with it that allows you to do graphs for useage allowing you to easily compare months and years of consumption as well as time of day.

Now I just think that's the coolest thing since being born.

 

[mrb]

i dont like it one bit. theyre selling the public on these based on the 'green' and coolness factors, but the reality is it will lead to higher rates based on time of use, and they have the capability to use the remote on/off function for load shedding with high granularity (instead of rolling blackouts, they can cut off their highest demand customers) or even institute daily energy allotments (you used your 50kwh for the day, so no more electricity for you until tomorrow). This will only get worse as electric cars become commonplace and the utilities start to have demand problems on their already taxed residential distribution systems.

Instead of spending on these unnecessary smart meters, we need to be spending on more generation, transmission, and distribution.

edit: and then there is the security issue -security researchers have already broken into these smart meters and manipulated energy rates as well as turning the power on and off.

they keep talking about 'hackers breaking into the electric grid', national security and all that. How about this: dont plug critical systems into the internet...

 

[nate379]

Wow Tin Foil.

If it gets that bad, it's pretty simple to pull the meter off and bypass it.

 

[mrb]

Wow Tin Foil.

If it gets that bad, it's pretty simple to pull the meter off and bypass it.

uh, thats a felony.

and its not a tin foil hat thing, here they already are starting to push controlling your A/C to turn it off when they need the power.

 

[nate379]

Sure, but I was talking about if **** hits the fan like you were talking about in your post... you know hackers taking over the world, zombie attack, etc.

 

[Teken]

i dont like it one bit. theyre selling the public on these based on the 'green' and coolness factors, but the reality is it will lead to higher rates based on time of use, and they have the capability to use the remote on/off function for load shedding with high granularity (instead of rolling blackouts, they can cut off their highest demand customers) or even institute daily energy allotments (you used your 50kwh for the day, so no more electricity for you until tomorrow). This will only get worse as electric cars become commonplace and the utilities start to have demand problems on their already taxed residential distribution systems.

Instead of spending on these unnecessary smart meters, we need to be spending on more generation, transmission, and distribution.

edit: and then there is the security issue -security researchers have already broken into these smart meters and manipulated energy rates as well as turning the power on and off.

they keep talking about 'hackers breaking into the electric grid', national security and all that. How about this: dont plug critical systems into the internet...

I have to agree this is the direction and intent of these new meters . . . Has nothing to do with the tin foil hat mentality . . . Has everything to do with security, privacy, and control from big brother and those who wish to do others harm . . .

 

[mrb]

Sure, but I was talking about if **** hits the fan like you were talking about in your post... you know hackers taking over the world, zombie attack, etc.

but im not talking about hackers taking over the world, but something as simple as some kid randomly turning peoples power on and off, or causing your bill to be 10x what it should, things like that.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

uh, thats a felony.

and its not a tin foil hat thing, here they already are starting to push controlling your A/C to turn it off when they need the power.

Thats been around for fifteen or twenty years at least. You get a break on the Kwh rate if you let them put the radio controlled box on your A/C that lets them shut if off if need be.

GA Power installed electronic meters here to allow remote reading of them (my understanding is that they still have to drive down the street to get the signal, but don't have to stop at every house, or they can fly over low in an airplane and get the signals), but nothing was ever said about being able to control the power (on and off) and I don't think these meters are capable of this. (they weigh virtually nothing, and a 200 amp electrically controlled switch has to weigh a fair amount)

Charles

 

[Stuart in MN]

The smart meters I'm familiar with don't have provisions for turning off or limiting power to the homes, they're mainly for remote reading (either from a central location or from a truck driving down the street; either one will save the utility a lot of money over time which more than pays for the meters.)

I did have them install a remotely controlled switch on my air conditioner condensing unit. It saves me money on my bill by allowing them to cycle the condensing unit on high demand days. They'll turn it off for short periods (something like ten minutes in an hour) but the circulation fan inside the house keeps running. It keeps circulating the cool air in the house so I don't even notice the difference.

 

[mrb]

Thats been around for fifteen or twenty years at least. You get a break on the Kwh rate if you let them put the radio controlled box on your A/C that lets them shut if off if need be.

GA Power installed electronic meters here to allow remote reading of them (my understanding is that they still have to drive down the street to get the signal, but don't have to stop at every house, or they can fly over low in an airplane and get the signals), but nothing was ever said about being able to control the power (on and off) and I don't think these meters are capable of this. (they weigh virtually nothing, and a 200 amp electrically controlled switch has to weigh a fair amount)

Charles

ive held one of these that switches on and off, they dont weigh much either. I asked the poco guy and he said its a mechanical switch (but I also felt like he didnt 100% get what I was talking about -its funny how some people know nothing of the world besides the specific task they do in their assigned job) I hope to god these things dont have a 200a triac in them.....

 

[Racecarl]

In our rural area we have load control on irrigation wells. The power company will send out a signal over the wires that a small receiver reads. When the signal is received a relay is opened, which kills the control voltage to the well motor contactor. When demand is reduced the power company sends another signal which closes the relay, and the well can be restarted. I used to wire up irrigation pivots and had to install restart timers to restart irrigation systems after the power resumed. These signals originate at large substations, and each susbstation is controlled by a radio frequency. If I had to bypass a load control to do some testing, I first had to call the power company to tell them what meter number I was on and what I was doing. If the farmer bypassed the load control and he was caught, he paid full retail rate for all his power. The load controlled rate was MUCH cheaper.

We also have electronic meters that the power comany can read remotely. They call them Turtles, because they are slow but reliable. These electronic meters in my area do not have the capability to turn off your electricity because of too much demand, they just save someone from having to manually read the meter.

 

[MattT]

ive held one of these that switches on and off, they dont weigh much either. I asked the poco guy and he said its a mechanical switch (but I also felt like he didnt 100% get what I was talking about -its funny how some people know nothing of the world besides the specific task they do in their assigned job) I hope to god these things dont have a 200a triac in them.....

They probably are solid state. 200A contactors ain't normally small or lightwight.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

It seems that some models of this meter do have remote disconnect. Models 1S-RD, 2S-RD. and 12S-RD are remote disconnect models. Mine is a 2S but does not have the RD after that, so I guess it is not a remote disconnect. The disconnect according to the spec sheet is a 2 pole, single throw, magnetic latching variety, apparently a mechanical switch.

I'm guessing the remote disconnect adds lots of money to the cost, and when you are replacing thousands of them at once, you (the POCO) has to consider the value gained vs cost, esp if they don't have authority from the state Public Service Commission to do load shedding disconnects without the property owner agreeing in advance.

I have one neighbor who had a special power company placed signage on the pole supplying his house, that the power could not be disconnected without first notifying him, as he had an invalid wife who needed power for certain life support equipment. (yes it has backup power, but they first have to do a test of the backup prior to the POCO disconnect). His wife has since passed away, so that is no longer an issue, but that is one of the problems with remote disconnect, not everyone can have it.

http://www.sensus.com/Module/Catalog/File?id=523

Charles

 

[MattT]

I'm guessing the remote disconnect adds lots of money to the cost, and when you are replacing thousands of them at once, you (the POCO) has to consider the value gained vs cost, esp if they don't have authority from the state Public Service Commission to do load shedding disconnects without the property owner agreeing in advance.

Doubt it'd cost that much per meter. And once the meters are rolled out they can be used for more than just load shedding. They can connect new residents, disconnect folks moving out, and switch delinquent accounts on and off remotely. The remote connect and disconnect has the potential to save the light companies a ton of money.

 

[MrMark]

These meters here in Orange County beach area are digital remote read meters with master "repeater" meters installed every so often, usually to a long term good customer, who may not even know he has the master meter. The regular meters transmit signals that are picked up by the master in the neighborhood and the master uplinks the reads to a satellite and then back down to earth where the poco collects the data.

 

[walrus]

Maines largest utility is doing this now, I think it ***** also. There are only 2 reasons to do this, 1st, no more meter readers, 2nd, the ability to turn your power off when they want.
Also lots of folks up in arms about health concerns
http://www.bangordailynews.com/stor...-concerns-as-CMP-installs-smart-meters,156177

 

[Tscott]

I work for a utility and I can promise you all that we do not want to shut off your electricity, unless of course you do not pay your bill.

First of all, you all need to remember that most of the utilities in this country are privately owned, so big brother is not watching you.

Number 2, we as utilities pay more for power during peak times. So technically, you are paying more for power than you need to during off peak times and less for power during on peak times. We are of course businesses and need to make money.

Number 3, most every utility in the country already has a time of use rate that you may or may not know about. This concept has been around for decades and can save you money if you choose to participate.

Number 4, the meters serve to do more than just read your power and turn you on and off. The newest generation of meters allows us as engineers to get a real time model of out system. This is something of a new concept in the utility world. We have had software models for years, but they are only as good as the information you put into them. Up until now, we have had to rely on customer input to find outages and to detect voltage issues on our systems. Now, we are able to identify problems from the office. Also, in rural areas with long feeders, we had had to raise the voltage at the beginning of the line to make sure it does not dip too low at the back of the line this is power we cannot sell and therefore costs us and you more money. With the new live model of the system, we can lower this voltage to the bare minimum and save you and us money.

The economics of these meters is just now becoming feasible for us. The savings on manpower is not typically enough to justify the cost of the meters, but with all the other information we can now get back, we can save enough to make it very good for both the consumer and the company.

Security is an issue with some companies, but the worst anyone can do is to shut off you meter. The meters are only allowed to relay certain information back up the network. Hackers cannot shut down entire systems because of this feature, just individual meters. This problem is also be addressed with the newer firmware updates.

So everybody take off you tin foil hats take a deep breath and take a look at you electric companies rate policies and see if you can maybe save yourself some money by switching rates. You can take solace int he fact that big brother is not watching and I, the power company, does not really give a hill of beans about what time you get home or when you run your dish washer.

Tom

 

[Tscott]

Oh, and those of you concerned about the loss of jobs of meter readers, don't be. Most utilities have set up ways to allow meter readers to move into new parts of the company. From all the case studies I have heard and read, most companies don't end up firing anyone between these programs and attrition.

Tom

 

[Stuart in MN]

There you go, confusing everyone with facts.

 

[Teken]

I work for a utility and I can promise you all that we do not want to shut off your electricity, unless of course you do not pay your bill.

First of all, you all need to remember that most of the utilities in this country are privately owned, so big brother is not watching you.

Number 2, we as utilities pay more for power during peak times. So technically, you are paying more for power than you need to during off peak times and less for power during on peak times. We are of course businesses and need to make money.

Number 3, most every utility in the country already has a time of use rate that you may or may not know about. This concept has been around for decades and can save you money if you choose to participate.

Number 4, the meters serve to do more than just read your power and turn you on and off. The newest generation of meters allows us as engineers to get a real time model of out system. This is something of a new concept in the utility world. We have had software models for years, but they are only as good as the information you put into them. Up until now, we have had to rely on customer input to find outages and to detect voltage issues on our systems. Now, we are able to identify problems from the office. Also, in rural areas with long feeders, we had had to raise the voltage at the beginning of the line to make sure it does not dip too low at the back of the line this is power we cannot sell and therefore costs us and you more money. With the new live model of the system, we can lower this voltage to the bare minimum and save you and us money.

The economics of these meters is just now becoming feasible for us. The savings on manpower is not typically enough to justify the cost of the meters, but with all the other information we can now get back, we can save enough to make it very good for both the consumer and the company.

Security is an issue with some companies, but the worst anyone can do is to shut off you meter. The meters are only allowed to relay certain information back up the network. Hackers cannot shut down entire systems because of this feature, just individual meters. This problem is also be addressed with the newer firmware updates.

So everybody take off you tin foil hats take a deep breath and take a look at you electric companies rate policies and see if you can maybe save yourself some money by switching rates. You can take solace int he fact that big brother is not watching and I, the power company, does not really give a hill of beans about what time you get home or when you run your dish washer.

Tom

Tom,

I appreciate the facts presented here . . . But, you have pretty much confirmed each concern mr.b and I have stated . . .

The difference is you don't believe the POCO would ever abuse these powers they have . . .

Big difference IMO . . .

Once again this has nothing to do with the tin foil hat syndrome . . .

 

[LEVE]

Guys, there's a huge difference between a Remote Meter and the Smart Meter! The Smart Meter can be invasive and controlling... and a goal of the left and Greens and Environmentalist to install in and control your home usage.

 

[Tscott]

Tom,

I appreciate the facts presented here . . . But, you have pretty much confirmed each concern mr.b and I have stated . . .

The difference is you don't believe the POCO would ever abuse these powers they have . . .

Big difference IMO . . .

Once again this has nothing to do with the tin foil hat syndrome . . .

What I am telling you is that we have no reason to abuse this. Your power company almost certainly already has the ability to do all the things you have stated, with the exception of the remote disconnect although it did exist before the new meters but is not very common.

Load management has been around for decades. It used to be radio controlled, and can now be done through the meter if you choose there is no difference. It is just a new form of the same thing. The time of use rate has also been around forever. Your power company has not forced you on to it yet have they? The only thing new about all this smart meter / AMI /AMR stuff is the data back haul we can get from the meter. And all that is is a load profile, phase angles, voltage reading amperage reading etc. All stuff your power company can get by reading your meter (especially the solid state meters you probably already have on your house, which are not necessarily smart meters)

You can pose this argument for the existing system. I have the ability to put a data recorder on any meter in our system if I choose and get the same info the smart meter can give me.

This is the same argument you can make about anything technologically advanced. You cell provider can record and listen to your calls if they choose to abuse the system. Your internet provider can and probably does track what you do on the net. Your credit card company definitely monitors your spending habits.

The bottom line is that energy is getting way more expensive to produce, and the greenies are making it harder to site and build power plants. They don't want coal or natural gas, they hate nuke plants and solar and wind are a joke for the time being. So the truth is we need to find ways to save money wherever we can, and a live model of our grid is a great way to save a ton of money for the consumer. If you want your bill to double or even triple, then we can stick with the old electro mechanical meters that we have used for a 100 years, but the reality is that the industry has to evolve or your power costs will increase dramatically.

Trust me when I say I am all for less government intrusion. I am probably just as libertarian as the next guy, and I see no problem with this because I am exposed to it every day and I am educated about its uses. All these systems do is allow us to do what we already more efficiently with less people.

Tom

 

[tdkkart]

i dont like it one bit. theyre selling the public on these based on the 'green' and coolness factors, but the reality is it will lead to higher rates based on time of use, and they have the capability to use the remote on/off function for load shedding with high granularity (instead of rolling blackouts, they can cut off their highest demand customers) or even institute daily energy allotments (you used your 50kwh for the day, so no more electricity for you until tomorrow). This will only get worse as electric cars become commonplace and the utilities start to have demand problems on their already taxed residential distribution systems.

You're paranoid enough to be afraid of this ****, but you don't have problem with perfect strangers wandering around you and your neighbor's back yard reading your meters while you're not home?? Just imagine what a new not-so-scrupulous meter reader could accomplish in one day. We had a big problem here a couple years ago with contract meter readers, boss from work walked outside to find 4 teenagers wandering around his yard, one of them was the reader, the others were friends out joy riding with the reader.

The power companies have the ability to shut off large blocks of customers all at once, why would they **** around with cutting off specific homes one at a time??

I've got way more to worry about.........

 

[tfi racing]

Here's a timely article for your reading pleasure...

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/S...electricity+firm+grow+case/3877592/story.html

Whaddya know,big brother is not interested in our power consumption afterall...

 

[tdkkart]

Here's a timely article for your reading pleasure...

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/S...electricity+firm+grow+case/3877592/story.html

Whaddya know,big brother is not interested in our power consumption afterall...

As I've always said, the cops don't coming knocking on your door for no reason. I'm 45 years old, they've NEVER come knocking on my door, and I don't expect them to any time soon. If I was doing something stupid I'd expect them to show up.

 

[Teken]

Here's a timely article for your reading pleasure...

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/S...electricity+firm+grow+case/3877592/story.html

Whaddya know,big brother is not interested in our power consumption afterall...

Yup I read that article earlier and this is why my views on the whole thing is rather dim . . .

@TScott: All the points you have made regarding control and auditing of the power grid etc all make sense . . .

On the surface and more than likely in daily living this is true . . . With the article provided by the other member you can clearly see how the boundaries have been over taken, and abused . . .

I am the first one to call fowl on criminals etc . . . But, these police officers were literally guessing and taking a gamble . . .

Which they won . . .

People are going to be suspected of illegal activity because of the presence of condensation forming on their windows?

Seeing ice formation at the direct vent pipe from the furnace etc??

How about I take a picture this time January when it is a steady -35'C in this blasted city and you tell me, and the others what is on my windows, on the windows of all my neighbors etc?

Moisture, frost, ice, to the Nth degree . . . I have to shake my head at the fucken judge who sided with the police on this one, truly it is a injustice being found guilty purely on the basis of frost, ice, and moisture.

Smell . . . I won't even go there seeing as the people I am surrounded by are all ethnic etc and if you smelled what they were cooking on a daily basis you would feel compelled to call out the POPO each night . . .

Nothing good will come out of this tech . . .

 

[JBurgess]

The power company is in the process of installing these.

When they are done you will actually be able to look online and see what your power meter is currently reading.

They supposedly have a program with it that allows you to do graphs for useage allowing you to easily compare months and years of consumption as well as time of day.

Now I just think that's the coolest thing since being born.

Yes I can get daily graphs and charts like this, but only for my revenue meter. They have been installing the remote turn on/off meters in apartments. They also have an option with a credit card like machine that turns off your power when you run out of credit.

 

[Teken]

What does the - minus mean in this graph? Also could you explain the odd electrical usage we see here . . .

Were you away a times in the month etc . . .

 

[JBurgess]

What does the - minus mean in this graph? Also could you explain the odd electrical usage we see here . . .

Were you away a times in the month etc . . .

That's when my solar production exceeds my use.

 

[Possum]

Cool - what do the asterisk's represent?

 

[Teken]

That's when my solar production exceeds my use.

OMG . . .

Would you mind starting a thread about your solar set up . . .

 

[JBurgess]

Cool - what do the asterisk's represent?

They indicate the utility missed the reading and those are estimates based on the next reading. That was around when they first intalled the smart meters (REX 2). they very seldom completely miss a read now, but many times the reading is 4 hours late.

Next expected question. It's 10 KW solar and produces aboput 51KW a day in the summer, 35KW a day in the winter.

 

[Tscott]

Yup I read that article earlier and this is why my views on the whole thing is rather dim . . .

@TScott: All the points you have made regarding control and auditing of the power grid etc all make sense . . .

On the surface and more than likely in daily living this is true . . . With the article provided by the other member you can clearly see how the boundaries have been over taken, and abused . . .

I am the first one to call fowl on criminals etc . . . But, these police officers were literally guessing and taking a gamble . . .Which they won . . .

People are going to be suspected of illegal activity because of the presence of condensation forming on their windows?

Seeing ice formation at the direct vent pipe from the furnace etc??

How about I take a picture this time January when it is a steady -35'C in this blasted city and you tell me, and the others what is on my windows, on the windows of all my neighbors etc?

Moisture, frost, ice, to the Nth degree . . . I have to shake my head at the fucken judge who sided with the police on this one, truly it is a injustice being found guilty purely on the basis of frost, ice, and moisture.Smell . . . I won't even go there seeing as the people I am surrounded by are all ethnic etc and if you smelled what they were cooking on a daily basis you would feel compelled to call out the POPO each night . . .

Nothing good will come out of this tech . . .

I have to disagree. They were found guilty of growing pot. They were caught because the cops did what is called detective work. These goof would have still gotten caught even without the load data from the house. The cops could have just done a stake out and waited for them to harvest.

So based on what you are saying, you don't think the police should not be able to pull you over for driving erratically? Maybe the driver ahead of you is swerving in the lane a bit, never really crosses that yellow line. Should they be able to use that as probable cause to pull someone over? They notice suspicious behavior and they investigate. That is probable cause, thats how they catch the bad guys.

I have to ask, would you be making the same argument if the police had noticed suspicious behavior in at home and had uncovered a child prostitution ring? What if instead of condensation on the windows, one saw ****** hand prints? Would that be reason enough to investigate. Are you just using this specific instance because they were only growing pot? Something most libertarians think should be legal.

I guess what I am saying is that I don't see this as a violation pf privacy. The police would have had no interest in their electric bill if they had not noticed the bare roof and the condensation on the windows. The police could have also tapped their phone or subpoenaed their bank account information. If it was court ordered would that have been OK by you?

Tom

 

[Joe92GT]

I have to disagree. They were found guilty of growing pot. They were caught because the cops did what is called detective work. These goof would have still gotten caught even without the load data from the house. The cops could have just done a stake out and waited for them to harvest.

Tom

Exactly! I am sure it was a situation of the cops knowing exactly what they were up to with out a way to get a warrant. So they watch, and come up with reason enough for a judge to get the warrant.

While I am just afraid of losing rights as the rest of you, I believe that this circumstance can not be used as the norm.

 

[Joe92GT]

Instead of spending on these unnecessary smart meters, we need to be spending on more generation, transmission, and distribution.

.

Yeah, they are trying to do that here. Only everyone is pulling a nimby.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/01/northern_nj_power_line_project.html

Its enough to make your blood boil. They don't want "dirty coal" power to cross the state. But then you can't build more nukes, or natural gas. Or like what happening in PA you can't even build a "clean coal" plant! But then the same people complain about black outs, high price of power, ect.

Wind and solar bring up huge grid stability problems that greenies just don't or can't understand. So a nice 150 megawatt wind farm stops making power when the wind stops. What picks up that 150MW of load? Right now it is inefficient gas turbines, followed by idled or spinning reserve combined cycle plants. So for every bit of solar/wind energy there has to be a reserve to pick up the load when it stops. It would be great if the combined cycle plans were idled or half powered nukes, but most cases they are combined cycle natural gas or coal.

Instead of using advanced engineering principles and knowledge, it appears emotional thinking is persevering. Very scary.

 

[mrb]

Yeah, they are trying to do that here. Only everyone is pulling a nimby.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/01/northern_nj_power_line_project.html

Its enough to make your blood boil. They don't want "dirty coal" power to cross the state. But then you can't build more nukes, or natural gas. Or like what happening in PA you can't even build a "clean coal" plant! But then the same people complain about black outs, high price of power, ect.

Wind and solar bring up huge grid stability problems that greenies just don't or can't understand. So a nice 150 megawatt wind farm stops making power when the wind stops. What picks up that 150MW of load? Right now it is inefficient gas turbines, followed by idled or spinning reserve combined cycle plants. So for every bit of solar/wind energy there has to be a reserve to pick up the load when it stops. It would be great if the combined cycle plans were idled or half powered nukes, but most cases they are combined cycle natural gas or coal.

Instead of using advanced engineering principles and knowledge, it appears emotional thinking is persevering. Very scary.

and thats the biggest problem with wind (besides the fact it destroys the landscape, has huge maintenance costs, cant be located near where the power is used, etc). When the wind stops blowing you instantly drop that generation capacity. As i understand it the only thing that can react quick enough is hydro (this was from a poco engineer in cali). All this green stuff is a bunch of ****, its wasting money, is causing pollution in the manufacture and transportation of these 'green' items, and will leave us worse off than before all this.

 

[Teken]

I have to disagree. They were found guilty of growing pot. They were caught because the cops did what is called detective work. These goof would have still gotten caught even without the load data from the house. The cops could have just done a stake out and waited for them to harvest.

So based on what you are saying, you don't think the police should not be able to pull you over for driving erratically? Maybe the driver ahead of you is swerving in the lane a bit, never really crosses that yellow line. Should they be able to use that as probable cause to pull someone over? They notice suspicious behavior and they investigate. That is probable cause, thats how they catch the bad guys.

I have to ask, would you be making the same argument if the police had noticed suspicious behavior in at home and had uncovered a child prostitution ring? What if instead of condensation on the windows, one saw ****** hand prints? Would that be reason enough to investigate. Are you just using this specific instance because they were only growing pot? Something most libertarians think should be legal.

I guess what I am saying is that I don't see this as a violation pf privacy. The police would have had no interest in their electric bill if they had not noticed the bare roof and the condensation on the windows. The police could have also tapped their phone or subpoenaed their bank account information. If it was court ordered would that have been OK by you?

Tom

I don't want to muddy up this thread as much as I have done so already . . .

To the OP, sorry . . .

@Tscott: Blood on a window and comparing that to moisture and ice build up?

I get what you're after and stressing . . . But, this simply doesn't pass the mustard in terms of having probable cause . . .

What pains me more is that this article is in Canada . . .

 

[walrus]

. As i understand it the only thing that can react quick enough is hydro (this was from a poco engineer in cali)..

Maine had a project way back when called the Dickey Lincoln project. Big Hydro project in Northern Maine. Dam was going to make a big pond behind it that would be used in conjunction with a tidal project. Eastern Maine can have 30 ft tides, big time power when the tide changes but it stops several times a day, thats when the Hydro project was going to fill in, tide changes, pond behind dam fills up, do it all over again. Snail darter stopped the whole project. Wind and Hydro make alot of sense but all we do in Maine is tear Hydro out and build all these windmill projects that won't do diddly squat beside make the investors rich from my tax dollars

 

[Tscott]

Originally Posted by mrb

Instead of spending on these unnecessary smart meters, we need to be spending on more generation, transmission, and distribution.

Just as an FYI, most distribution companies don't do their own generation, at least not on any large scale.

Also, if the smart meters are used correctly and enough customer chooses to take part in the time of use programs, then additional generation will not be needed as soon. We have to design our power systems for peak loads. Although we may only hit these loads once or twice a year. By leveling these peaks out, you effectively increase the capacity of the system.

Tom

 

[Tscott]

I don't want to muddy up this thread as much as I have done so already . . .

To the OP, sorry . . .

@Tscott: Blood on a window and comparing that to moisture and ice build up?

I get what you're after and stressing . . . But, this simply doesn't pass the mustard in terms of having probable cause . . .

What pains me more is that this article is in Canada . . .

One is a sign of a grow house, and one is a sign of murder, besides the severity of the crime what is different? Both are against the law and it could be argued that both endanger life.

What if the house had pot leaves painted on the front door and a sign that said grow house in the front window? To the trained eye, condensation on the window and no snow on the roof are signs that are just as obvious. All I am saying is that you cannot have it both ways. You cannot have police protection and then tie their hands and not allow them to follow up on obvious leads.

For what its worth the the OP, Smart meters are cool and will give you the opportunity to save money. I say embrace it and run your dryer during off peak times and save a buck or two.

Tom