Heating a Garage Gym

[stroutman81]

Hello all -

I've heard this is the place to come to for all questions pertaining to heating my garage gym. I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to this stuff. I'll simply tell you the basics of my situation and hope for some top notch advice.

I live in PA... about 45 minutes NW of Philadelphia. It's nothing to see single digit temps here in the winter. My garage gym is approximately 550 square feet. Most of it is insulated.

I tried running a space heater I picked up from Lowes, but it didn't make a lick of difference. The temp actually dropped as the sun went down.

So what are my options?

It's important to note I don't need it heated all the time. I only need it when I'm training in the gym, which consists of a few hours each day. Namely, I need to heat it up as quickly as possible when I have a client coming in.

Thanks in advance!

 

[koditten]

We need more info. Do you have natural gas or LP? Do you have the skills or contacts to run gas lines or install chimney vents?

For the quickest heat rise I would use some sort or unit heater that hangs from the ceiling. Do a search for Hot Dog garage heaters to learn about this type of heat.

First and foremost, you need to look at insulation and air infiltration(drafts). With out taking care of these things first you will be fighting to make the space usable.

If this is not possible you might think about electric radiant heat. This will still require a professional to upgrade your wiring.

 

[stroutman81]

We need more info. Do you have natural gas or LP?

I do not.

Do you have the skills or contacts to run gas lines or install chimney vents?

I do not have the skills. I'm sure I can find a contractor to help in whatever path I choose for heating.

I should also mention that the building has a chimney already. There's a very tiny wood stove that doesn't heat up the building adequately. And even if it did, there are times I need to hit it up faster than a small wood stove can provide.

For the quickest heat rise I would use some sort or unit heater that hangs from the ceiling. Do a search for Hot Dog garage heaters to learn about this type of heat.

I certainly will, thanks.

First and foremost, you need to look at insulation and air infiltration(drafts). With out taking care of these things first you will be fighting to make the space usable.

The vast majority of the room is insulated (walls and ceiling) as well as drywalled. Unfortunately there's a small space that's not and I'm sure that's going to hurt me until I get it fixed.

See the video to an idea of what I'm talking about. Mute it so you don't have to listen to my sales pitch. I run a business out of this place and it's the only video I have.

At the 36 second mark you'll see the problem area. But in truth... I have clients in there now and I need to get some sort of heat flowing immediately.

If this is not possible you might think about electric radiant heat. This will still require a professional to upgrade your wiring.

Okay... all of these terms are foreign to me. I'll have to do some research based on your recommendations. My ignorant mind wants to ask, "what's the most efficient and effective source of heat given my space and situation," but I know that's not a question that's answered simply.

 

[930dreamer]

After watching the video, I'd cover the non gym section of the room with something so not to heat it(blanket). Have you thought of leaving a heater on all the time, so your not starting with a cold room. Are you willing to add ducting and tie into the house heating system.

Short term two heaters running with a fan to move the air all the time.

 

[stroutman81]

After watching the video, I'd cover the non gym section of the room with something so not to heat it(blanket).

I do plan on doing this actually. Not ideal, but will certainly help.

Have you thought of leaving a heater on all the time, so your not starting with a cold room.

I would consider it if a) I know what heat source to use and b) it's cost effective.

Are you willing to add ducting and tie into the house heating system.

I have to imagine that would be beyond my budget. Which I haven't really mentioned. I was hoping to have this problem fixed for, at most, $1000. I mean, I was pretty bummed to learn that the electric heaters they sell at Lowes probably wouldn't do much for me and they're only a few hundred bucks.

Short term two heaters running with a fan to move the air all the time.

What type of heaters though? That's my main confusion.

 

[rieferman]

My garage/barn/shop is about 20 x 20 (400 sq feet) with concrete floors, several windows, and an overhead garage door. The ceiling is not insulated, but the walls are insulated. I use the Dayton G73 (I actually have the Farenheat equivalent) to heat the space on an as-needed basis and it works great. It's electric, throws a ton of air, kicks off when the room gets up to temp, and cost me under $350 including installation.

Note, I live in the same climate zone as you, so this is probably a pretty decent comparison.

Search this forum for Dayton G73 and you should find a ton of testimonials (I know, because this forum is what drove me to make this pick, and I couldn't be happier).

 

[stroutman81]

My garage/barn/shop is about 20 x 20 (400 sq feet) with concrete floors, several windows, and an overhead garage door. The ceiling is not insulated, but the walls are insulated. I use the Dayton G73 ...........

Thanks for the recommendation.

How frequently to you run it? What did it do to your electric bill?

 

[rieferman]

I run it for a couple hours per day, call it 3 hours per day. You can wire it with a programmable thermostat if you want so that it is up to temp by the time you go out there - in my case, I just turn it on the lowest setting when I get home from work, and then by the time the kids are asleep I can go out and bump it to comfort level. Overcoming the cold held in the objects in the room is the tough part, after that, warming the air is easy (and that's why I do the two step approach described here to heat up the space).

Anyways, it has increased my electric bill, but not enough for us to be scared off at all. In fact, with all the variables that affect bills, I can't even say with certainty how much is attributed to my heater as opposed to my woodworking equipment, forgetting to turn out a light, christmas decorations etc. etc. etc. But, call it $50 per month bump.

The way I look at it... If I put an addition on the home, we'd have to heat it. A garage space that is used for daily personal usage (as opposed to car parking alone) is the same thing.

 

[burleymike]

If it were me I would buy a PTAC heat pump with resistance heat. You will have A/C, slow to warm up but efficient heat pump and quick to warm up electric heat all in one for $1000 or less.

 

[stroutman81]

If it were me I would buy a PTAC heat pump with resistance heat. You will have A/C, slow to warm up but efficient heat pump and quick to warm up electric heat all in one for $1000 or less.

Can you post a link to something like what you're talking about?

 

[930dreamer]

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77982

 

[MikeLawrence]

Can you post a link to something like what you're talking about?

www.thruwalls.com/units/ptac/az61h15dab

A ptac is just an A/C in a single box that goes through the wall to heat a space. Specifically the kind you most frequently run into are window units (21x16 or thereabouts) and motel style units (42x16 and exactly like what they sound like... almost all motel rooms have one).

What he's describing basically requires the motel form factor due to 'the amount of stuff in it' and obviously involves cutting a 42x16 hole in the wall versus just plugging in an electric heater. (There is after all a reason that basically every motel uses these things--they are practically perfect for the niche of optimally heating/cooling a ~300-600 sq ft. space.)

The advantage to going this route would be that it would also give you cooling in the summer, and most importantly in this case it will heat for less than 1/3 the price per btu of electric resistance heat while still providing that option for times when it is necessary. (Basically it will have a g73 in the box "for free".)

As an example of price differences; assuming $0.10/kw hr (which is pretty cheap for electric) a strip heat unit at 5kw will put out ~17k btu / hour at $0.50 an hour. By comparison an air-to-air heat pump like that would put out ~15k btu/hour at right at $0.15 an hour; basically saving you $0.35 every hour you run it for the life of the unit (figure about 7 years).

Offered only as an opinion,
Michael Lawrence, LISSCO

 

[ishiboo]

I do plan on doing this actually. Not ideal, but will certainly help.



I would consider it if a) I know what heat source to use and b) it's cost effective.



I have to imagine that would be beyond my budget. Which I haven't really mentioned. I was hoping to have this problem fixed for, at most, $1000. I mean, I was pretty bummed to learn that the electric heaters they sell at Lowes probably wouldn't do much for me and they're only a few hundred bucks.



What type of heaters though? That's my main confusion.

Without question, without fixing that giant gap you are heating the entire space. You can start with something simple - a heavy comforter or something. But it really needs to be walled off and insulated. Drywall + studs + insulation = cheap.

My garage/barn/shop is about 20 x 20 (400 sq feet) with concrete floors, several windows, and an overhead garage door. The ceiling is not insulated, but the walls are insulated. I use the Dayton G73 (I actually have the Farenheat equivalent) to heat the space on an as-needed basis and it works great. It's electric, throws a ton of air, kicks off when the room gets up to temp, and cost me under $350 including installation.

Note, I live in the same climate zone as you, so this is probably a pretty decent comparison.

Search this forum for Dayton G73 and you should find a ton of testimonials (I know, because this forum is what drove me to make this pick, and I couldn't be happier).

I agree about electric, since he does not have LP or NG, however I think the easiest way to go about this would be baseboard heat plus perhaps a small shop heater as a "booster". This would be a more even heat for "normal" use.

If it were me I would buy a PTAC heat pump with resistance heat. You will have A/C, slow to warm up but efficient heat pump and quick to warm up electric heat all in one for $1000 or less.

I'd disagree, it sounds like in his climate that unit will never pay for itself, and he will be relying on the resistance heat much of the time.

In addition, If I'm reading the spec right (I may not be?) that unit puts out 1200 watts of heating in resistance mode according to its spec - less than a $15 ceramic heater you can plug into the wall. In the single-digit and negative-digit days he mentioned, he will have almost zero heating capacity. I'm no HVAC guru, just my opinion as well

 

[MikeLawrence]

I'd disagree, it sounds like in his climate that unit will never pay for itself, and he will be relying on the resistance heat much of the time.

In addition, If I'm reading the spec right (I may not be?) that unit puts out 1200 watts of heating in resistance mode according to its spec - less than a $15 ceramic heater you can plug into the wall. In the single-digit and negative-digit days he mentioned, he will have almost zero heating capacity. I'm no HVAC guru, just my opinion as well

Depends on the cord but the GE I linked is either 3.6kw (12k btu) or 5.0kw (17k btu) based on whether you can support a 30 amp cord or have to go 20 amp. This is exactly the same with any other resistance heat (milk house / baseboard / w/e) as they all function identically and the amount of energy(heat) you get out is almost exactly the amount of energy(A/C) you put in. (Electric is basically 100% efficient.)

Now I'm not in disagreement with you about the heat pump paying for itself versus a pure resistance heater (like a g73; a ~$500 difference): it never will in PA. I do think, however, that the new R410-a ones (where the heatpump still operates even 20 degrees below freezing) like I linked will ALWAYS pay for themselves versus a comperable pure strip heat thru-wall (a ~$50 difference).

The question really comes down in my mind to whether or not he has a cooling solution in mind come summer. This is a gym after all and if you've ever tried to work out really hard in high heat it can be miserable.

TL;DR

The ptac heat pump is optimal at what it's designed for: heating and cooling a space of your size. If you'll never use the cooling you'll be paying an upfront cost for functionality you'll never use and it will no longer be ideal.

Offered as an opinion,
Michael Lawrence, Lissco

 

[Falcon67]

IMHO, a G73 type 5kW heater (17K BTU) heater would heat that space just fine. It's not that big. You can figure your operation cost pretty easy - if you pay .12/kWh then running one at full heat will cost .60 per full hour of heating element operation. The one in my insulated 480 sq/ft shop cycles about 3-4 times per hour to hold mid 60s with the outside in the 30s. Total on time is around 15 minutes per hour. YMMV of course. If you are running this as a business, then you should be able to write off all the associated costs.

 

[PaulR]

If you have not watched the video he linked, do so.
There is a chimney right in the middle of the room, with a dinky stove, which besides not being anywhere efficient is an eyesore to the professional looking layout of the garage/gym (imho).

My vote is use (kinda) what you have, ditch that pos wood stove and get a nice unit with an electric blower on it, or a pellet stove, assuming you can do a pellet stove to a wood chimney.

.02 P

 

[MikeLawrence]

If you have not watched the video he linked, do so.
There is a chimney right in the middle of the room, with a dinky stove, which besides not being anywhere efficient is an eyesore to the professional looking layout of the garage/gym (imho).

My vote is use (kinda) what you have, ditch that pos wood stove and get a nice unit with an electric blower on it, or a pellet stove, assuming you can do a pellet stove to a wood chimney.

.02 P

Yeah I'm not exactly sure why gas was ruled out earlier I was just providing additional information cause... well... that's my thing (thru-walls).

After watching the video he already has a window unit in there for cooling and that woodstove chimney thing is an eyesore. If there was ANY way to make that look better while switching to gas (which in your area would be even more efficient price/btu than a heat pump) I'd do it in a heart beat.

Michael Lawrence, Lissco

 

[Buckgnarly]

Where in Pottstown are you? I graduated from Boyertown, my mother grew up right off 724 pas the mall near Laurel Locks (spelling) Farms....if that's even still there!

My buddy who still lives in Boyertown does HVAC and could probably do some stuff on the side if you need any professional help in installation.
Drop me a PM and I can get you in touch with him.

 

[rieferman]

Pottstown?? Cool. I'm over in collegeville

 

[stroutman81]

Yeah I'm not exactly sure why gas was ruled out earlier I was just providing additional information cause... well... that's my thing (thru-walls).

After watching the video he already has a window unit in there for cooling and that woodstove chimney thing is an eyesore. If there was ANY way to make that look better while switching to gas (which in your area would be even more efficient price/btu than a heat pump) I'd do it in a heart beat.

Michael Lawrence, Lissco

The wood stove is a leftover from when I originally purchased the property. What sort of gas are you talking about?

 

[stroutman81]

Where in Pottstown are you? I graduated from Boyertown, my mother grew up right off 724 pas the mall near Laurel Locks (spelling) Farms....if that's even still there!

My buddy who still lives in Boyertown does HVAC and could probably do some stuff on the side if you need any professional help in installation.
Drop me a PM and I can get you in touch with him.

I'm right off of rt. 23 west of 100.

 

[stroutman81]

I just wanted to thank everyone for all of the great information. It was a bit overwhelming at first as I'm completely ignorant with this stuff, but after some digging it seems something like the g73 would be ideal.

Two questions:

1. Someone mentioned a pellet stove above. It just so happens since my last visit to the forum someone offered to sell me theirs for a very reasonable price. What are your thoughts of pellet stoves? This is digital with touch button ignition, seems very simple to use and instal. Is this a viable means of heating up such a small space? It's rated for 1500 sq ft.

2. What about a oil forced hot air unit? There's a large oil tank for the house that sits about 10 yards from this building.

 

[mgilde13]

I spent last weekend working in my buddy's garage in northern MN. It's 40x40 14 foot ceilings. He used to heat it with a propane furnace but switched to a pellet stove because it was cheaper to run and heated the space better. It never got above 20 degrees outside and that pellet stove kept it at 70 degrees in there and it was on low the whole time.

 

[PaulR]

Pellet stoves are extremely popular these days as an alternative source of heat. The cost of pellets have been rising just like everything else as more people enter the market. Pellets to me are the best alternative/secondary form of heat. Little bit of labor in cleaning/stocking/storing them, but being a gym rat I doubt you would mind that. Great short term solution I think. Long term I think tapping into that oil tank outside is your best long term permanent solution.

.02 P

 

[stroutman81]

Thanks guys!