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Locking Nuts - Nyloc vs Metal

mobiledynamics

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What is the differences between a nyloc nut and a *all metal locking nut*.
Nylocs are quite inexpensive compared to the all metal locking nut ?
Hi shear vs low shear ? I would assume there is still *softer* metal on the all metal locking nut
 
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bluesman2a

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You can't tack-weld a nylock for a captured locking nut. Well, I guess you could, but it ruins the locking capacity of the nut.
 

pgreen

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If it is something you will need to take apart and reassemble on occasion, don't use an all metal lock nut. Use a nylock. After about the second use, a nylock is pretty much useless, but like what was said earlier, an all metal lock nut will deform the threads on the stud or bolt after a few uses.

Definitely with any significant heat, no nylock, or it won't be a nylock for long.

Nylock is the only thing to use with stainless fasteners, as stainless will gall and you will never get a clinch nut or any other type of all metal lock nut off.

So, depends. What is your application?
 
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mobiledynamics

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For now.....nothing high shear load. Just doing a little tweaking and modding on a vintage Snowblower and just using SS bolts/mods on a newer one. All top $$$ units, GX engines, etc.....

Locally, going to Fastenal is not worth it, so while ordering stuff, I'll just order more...
I've used the metal locking on shear bolts, whereas the nyloc on chutes and stuff.

Just wasn't quite sure which ones to order with the new stash...
 
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mobiledynamics

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U guys are smart.....
If only someone can tell me where to source a cheaper but equally as good *OEM like* 6mmx16mm length shear bolt. I've never done the homework to confirm what is the proper *steel* rating for the app - so I've always stuck with $$ OEM bolts...
 

ntsqd

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"Stover nut" type all metal locking nuts are really only a one time use for both the bolt and the nut. If the bolt threads aren't mangled too badly they can be re-used, but there is the likely situation that the prevailing torque has been reduced so the retaining force will be too. I nearly always assemble them with the briefest smear of anti-seize to allow for an easier time in dis-assembly. If the bolt is "mission critical", meaning lives are potentially at stake, then I skip the anti-seize and consider the bolt and nut to be consumables.

Jet nuts and K-nuts seem to be re-useable since those designs are used in captured applications, but I'll defer to those with direct experience with them.

Elastic stop nuts (nylox) can be re-used until the retaining force is unacceptably low (spin on by hand?).

Common stainless bolts are Grade 2 or worse in strength (I consider them to be "Grade Zero"). Pretty and fine for holding on cowlings, shields, guards, etc., but have no application in structural loadings. If you need high strength stainless bolts I'll suggest consulting the ARP fasteners page.
 
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mobiledynamics

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I'm not good at guessing the bucket weight with impellers/augers ....but a wild guesstimate would be 100 lbs . The skid shoes will be held in place with 2 8mm SS bolts on each side. The bolt/fender washer/etc will be holding the skid shoe to keep the frontend/bucket off the ground (adjustable height).

I've been debating not using SS for the skids (even though this area spends it's majority when in use in wet snowey conditions) just due to SS not being as strong as a regular steel bolt
 
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rodm1

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Most Nylocks are grade 2 and metal are grade 8. Never seen otherwise
 

mikester

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Nylocs are good to 250 F. They are also made in grade 8 if you have a need for them. There are many different styles of locknuts. Most of the common steel locknuts have part of the threads distorted or made ovaled so they dont back out. Ive never seen these in stainless but Ive bought them in grade 8 and also metric 10.9. Ive heard them called pinch nuts, top nuts and non servicable lock nuts. I used the 10.9s on my car when I rebuilt the front end and they were VERY hard to find. The local John Deere dealer had most of the hardware that I needed including a nice selection of flange locknuts. In both nylock and top nuts. I assumed hardened nuts would be pretty easy to find in a truck parts but most parts houses dont carry the nuts, just bolts. JD also had a nice selection of the reduced shoulder SAE washers in grades 8 and 10.9 also. I believe if youre using hardened nuts and bolts you should get the right washers too. Ive actually started to build up a nice supply of this stuff.
 

pgreen

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For what you are doing, high strength fasteners are probably not required.

As far as all metal stainless locknuts, they do exist. I have a handful of stainless jet nuts (1/4"-28, I believe). Very nice, but like $3-4 each! Jet nuts are a reduced head locking nut. Again, not something you need for a snowblower. They are aircraft and race car stuff really.

For what you are doing, keep it simple. I would bet good money bolts for the snowblower shoes are not a high grade bolt. Those fasteners could have been up-sized during design to negate the need for a high strength fastener. Grade 2 or Grade 5 SHOULD be fine. If you do break a bolt in this location, is it dangerous? If so, go Grade 5 or Grade 8 (10.9 or 12.? if it is metric).
 

Joe B.

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If you're using the metal kind on exhaust applications, go with silver plated. They never gall :)

Over 10 years ago I worked for a company that managed fasteners for large manufacturers. (Aerospace type nut in an automotive application) Back then I had a galling problem with a silver plated locknut. The one I had was to spec but still had the galling problem. The previous vendor did not have the problems I had. I was young and not happy to have a $100K of questionable inventory.

I lost a lot of sleep over that one. Years later I still keep one of those nuts on my keychain to remind myself that my problems are work are not that bad.
 

Veefre

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"Stover nut" type all metal locking nuts are really only a one time use for both the bolt and the nut. If the bolt threads aren't mangled too badly they can be re-used, but there is the likely situation that the prevailing torque has been reduced so the retaining force will be too. I nearly always assemble them with the briefest smear of anti-seize to allow for an easier time in dis-assembly. If the bolt is "mission critical", meaning lives are potentially at stake, then I skip the anti-seize and consider the bolt and nut to be consumables.

Jet nuts and K-nuts seem to be re-useable since those designs are used in captured applications, but I'll defer to those with direct experience with them.

Elastic stop nuts (nylox) can be re-used until the retaining force is unacceptably low (spin on by hand?).

Common stainless bolts are Grade 2 or worse in strength (I consider them to be "Grade Zero"). Pretty and fine for holding on cowlings, shields, guards, etc., but have no application in structural loadings. If you need high strength stainless bolts I'll suggest consulting the ARP fasteners page.

I'm not so sure that prevailing torque, or Stover, or distorted thread all metal locknuts are one-time use only. According to Carroll Smith (via Wikipedia, Smith, Carroll (1990), Carroll Smith's Nuts, Bolts, Fasteners, and Plumbing Handbook, MotorBooks/MBI Publishing Company, ISBN 0-87938-406-9.), the elastic nature of the single distorted thread means that when it is removed it regains its original distorted form, meaning it can be re-used quite a few times.

A problem may arise when a Grade C or Grade 8 Stover type distorted prevailing torque lock nut is used on a soft metal bolt, say Grade 2 or not rated. Then the nut may distort the bolt threads, ruining the bolt. Since most automotive fasteners these days are Grade 8, I don't see this a problem with car/truck work.

My '67 Chevy Van came with prevailing torque conical top thread lock nuts on the leaf spring shackles (7/16-20). When I serviced the bushings (lots of croaking and squeaking) I replaced the stock shackles with new ones and new bolts. I used Nylon insert lock nuts, and lo and behold after a few miles the nuts loosened up. There was another problem, in that the replacement bolts had shoulders that were a bit shorter than the stock bolts, but I was still able to get 50 lbs of torque on them. Another issue was that the replacement new shackles were about 1/8" to 1/4" shorter than the original ones, and they resulted in the spring eye hitting the frame boss. Not so good. Also the shorter bolt shoulders meant that the bushings were getting quite squeezed, beyond what must have been their design parameters. To cut to the chase, I cleaned, lubed, and reinstalled the original shackles and bolts, with new prevailing torque locknuts. The springs are quiet now and the nuts don't loosen, even after several rounds of assembly/disassembly.

Originally I found this thread because a nut on the flange holding the exhaust piping to the header had come off completely (I noticed this while doing the suspension work). All the nuts were grade 8 with lock washers. I decided that the lock washers perhaps were not holding up to the heat too well, and decided to switch to prevailing torque lock nuts in this application. But I also wanted to check the boards to see if there are any concerns with that plan. I will use some anti-seize (still have the good old lead stuff too). The application is far enough away from the head that I don't think extreme heat will be an issue, though, as it is sometimes with exhaust studs installed directly on the head.

Bottom line is that I believe that if the bolt and nut grades are matched, the prevailing torque lock nut can be re-used.
 

laser3kw

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northen IL
Why not castle nuts and cotter keys? Or safety wire?
most peole do not know how to correctly apply either. They will use either and have a false since of security when in all actuality they are on borrowed time.
I have seen fasteners safety wired or cotter keyed dancing around merrily from vibration. But the owner was satisfied they were "safe"!:eyecrazy:
 

Strouty

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I agree that if you use all metal locknuts with the correct bolt, they work many times. I use them for bolting things to frames and things that get hot.

Nyloc on stainless is a must, otherwise you are going to have to break or cut the bolt to get it off.

For the people about to say this is an old topic, I think you mean timeless and I am glad Veefree used the search function!
 

gtae07

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Fayetteville, GA
Nylocs are good to 250 F. They are also made in grade 8 if you have a need for them. ...
a nice selection of flange locknuts. In both nylock and top nuts. I assumed hardened nuts would be pretty easy to find in a truck parts but most parts houses dont carry the nuts, just bolts. JD also had a nice selection of the reduced shoulder SAE washers in grades 8 and 10.9 also. I believe if youre using hardened nuts and bolts you should get the right washers too. Ive actually started to build up a nice supply of this stuff.

We used Grade 8 nylocks and washers all the time in my previous job; Fastenal and McMaster have a nice wide selection. Even Lowes and HD carry some basic Grade 8 stuff if all you need is a couple bolts and don't have time to wait or don't want to pay as much in shipping as you are in parts.
 

icenfire01

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Jul 10, 2013
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South Dakota
I was always under the impression all lock nuts are technically one time use (tho I used them multiple times). If it have to be removed several times the blue locktite is probably a better option.
 

rsanter

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visalia ca
The answer hare are not wrong but over generalized.
There are many classes of locking nuts. You have to match the nut the use.
Tempature
Strength
Will it be removed and reinstalled
Etc

Bob
 
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