Matco=Craftsman.. WTF?

[joenero]

Today I work I glanced at the person's next to me's craftsman 10mm 1/4'' drive chrome swivel socket and noticed something strange. So I pulled out my matco that was the same size and discovered something shocking. Besides the inside part being chromed on the matco instead of black like on the craftsman IT'S EXACTLY THE SAME! So I looked at a chrome universal 1/4 matco swivel vs the craftsman. The same down to the dimple on the top.

Tomorrow I'm bringing my craftsman 3/8 universal to compare but I have come to the conclusion the 3/8'' and 1/4'' chrome swivel sockets are the same. I'm happy I didn't buy more of the Matco stuff!

 

[mulepackin]

Matco = Danaher = Craftsman. An oversimplification, but thats where they both come from.

 

[joenero]

But the impacts, wrenches, and regular sockets are different in a good way.

What gives with blowing up the price for a bunch of craftsman swivels?

It just annoyed me so much I went on the website. $99 for the cman 10 piece metric WITH the 8 piece sae set.

$222 for the matco 7 piece sae set
$335 for the matco 11 piece metric set.

Same quantity of sockets (2 are different though) for over 5X the price and it's the same thing!

 

[Cashed]

But the impacts, wrenches, and regular sockets are different in a good way.

What gives with blowing up the price for a bunch of craftsman swivels?

I would guess its "just because they can" Not much more reason than profit. Looks like Mac does the same thing with some Proto tools.

 

[mulepackin]

I suppose it boils down to the specs the respective reseller requests in their tools. If Cman's swivel socket specs are essentially the same as Matco's, Danaher sure as hell isn't going to retool if they don't have to. Once the tools are branded than it's just as cashed says "because they can" (charge and get more for it).

 

[SteveV]

The "because they can" reason is why I'm always skeptical of the prices the tool trucks charge for their products. I have a hard time believing it cost these manufacturers 3-4 times what it costs a company like Craftsman to make a tool.

We've already seen a specific example of how Matco just rebadges a Craftsman tool, and adds a huge markup to it.

Is it really so far-fetched to think that ALL the premium tool companies aren't just selling products that costs a little more to manufacture than a Craftsman or similar hardware store brand tool and adding a ridiculous markup?

 

[Cashed]

For me the only thing that makes me buy a tool truck brand is if I like there product much better than any other company's tool. Such as Snap-Ons wrenches and Phillips screw drivers. These are the only tools that I personally think are worth the 4x price. And having them come to you once a week is nice. I'm sure other disagree though.

 

[eschoendorff]

But the impacts, wrenches, and regular sockets are different in a good way.

What gives with blowing up the price for a bunch of craftsman swivels?

It just annoyed me so much I went on the website. $99 for the cman 10 piece metric WITH the 8 piece sae set.

$222 for the matco 7 piece sae set
$335 for the matco 11 piece metric set.

Same quantity of sockets (2 are different though) for over 5X the price and it's the same thing!

Matco wrenches are no different than the Craftsman Professional full polish. If I am mistaken, someone please correct me.

If you have two products that are identical and charge 5x as much for one than the other, most people will assume that the more expensive is higher quality. It's psychology.....

 

[MAD]

Matco wrenches are no different than the Craftsman Professional full polish. If I am mistaken, someone please correct me.

If you have two products that are identical and charge 5x as much for one than the other, most people will assume that the more expensive is higher quality. It's psychology.....

I have a few of the Danaher made Craftsman pro wrenches (most of my Craftsman pros are the S-K made ones) and a few Matco wrenches of various vintages. The newest Matco wrench looks very similar to the Craftsman pros. The Matco wrench does have a modified open end that the Craftsman pro wrenches do not have. I think Matco calls this modification "Opti-Torque Pro". Other than that they appear to be the same although it is impossible to tell if they get identical heat treating.

 

[wrenchr]

over polished c-man.

 

[wilbilt]

If you have two products that are identical and charge 5x as much for one than the other, most people will assume that the more expensive is higher quality. It's psychology.....

Yep. And Craftsman-branded Gearwrenches really are made in the USA...sure they are...just keep repeating it and will be true...

 

[klswvu]

There are so many "costs" in the price of the product that it is very hard to compare one to another...

-indirect cost allocations
-supply chain effieciencies
-distribution efficiencies
-QA level

But there are the cases where it is intentionally made hard to comparison shop… manufacturers selling the same product under different model names through different distributors, selling the same product under vanity labels and the list goes on.

Then there is marketing which has proven that “perception” is reality. Don't meet a need, create a need. Create brand loyalty.

End of the day, a product is “worth” what two parties in a free exchange are willing pay due to real or preceived attributes about a brand. You will go nuts trying to figure out if product A is like product B.

Wow... that is a rambling rant... sorry

 

[Jeeper]

I think the big price difference between a top consumer (cpro) and a truck brand can be attributed to support. I know from the industry that I am in (computer), support is really expensive. It's something that is difficult to make less expensive since it's so labor intensive. You think about truck brands you have one person that is commited to driving around an defined area to sell/support. not cheap. I can see why the cost is 3x or 4x. Cpro don't have to worry about a driver, health care of a truck driver, a truck, aging inventory on the truck, gas for carting around all the tools, shipping tools back and forth to the truck. It adds up.

On a related topic, i wonder what the truck guys pay for the tools from S.O. or Matco. Whats their margin.

 

[SteveV]

I think the big price difference between a top consumer (cpro) and a truck brand can be attributed to support. I know from the industry that I am in (computer), support is really expensive. It's something that is difficult to make less expensive since it's so labor intensive. You think about truck brands you have one person that is commited to driving around an defined area to sell/support. not cheap. I can see why the cost is 3x or 4x. Cpro don't have to worry about a driver, health care of a truck driver, a truck, aging inventory on the truck, gas for carting around all the tools, shipping tools back and forth to the truck. It adds up.

On a related topic, i wonder what the truck guys pay for the tools from S.O. or Matco. Whats their margin.

It's not like Sears or a similar hardware store don't also have a lot of costs to cover for their sales model. You have to rent the retail space to sell your products, provide wages and benefits for several employees, allow returns and exchanges, have constant inventory, pay insurance, taxes, etc.

Also, the "support" you get from the tool trucks doesn't cost the company any money because the drivers are really there to sell their products and collect debts, they're not there just to replace your tools.

If a driver thought the only transaction he would get at your shop was replacing a tool, you'd be lucky to ever see him again.

 

[ColdDuckTime]

On a related topic, i wonder what the truck guys pay for the tools from S.O. or Matco. Whats their margin.

If there is a truck guy here, it would be interesting to hear what the whole rigamarole is. I'll bet that the franchisees have a zillion rules (keep the truck washed, what kind of truck to buy, minimum prices to charge, who you can sell to).

If it was really an open marketplace, you'd think that some enterprising Matco (for instance) dealer would go ahead and open an Amazon store with the full product line at a discount to the mothership's prices.

 

[hell_fish_65]

Its a direct sales model. You can lose a license for setting up a online shop with some companies. That way the rules for my wife when she sold Mary kay a few years ago.

 

[MAD]

Around 1996 I bought a Craftsman pro ergo grip flex head ratchet. Another Tech had just bought a very similar ratchet from our Matco guy. Other than the shape of the plastic grip and the quick release button they seemed identical. When we asked our Matco guy about it, his response was: "Do you think they (Danaher) would screw their hard working dealers that way to make money-You bet its the same."

A few of the Craftsman pro and low production volume Wrenches and drive tools are very similar to Matco's. This is not to say that Matco and Craftsman stuff is all the same. Just that some of the product lines overlap. There may be slight differences like the modified open end on the Matco wrenches. Or the difference is in the product selection. For example Craftsman offers the 60 tooth ratchets but only in one model/handle style. The Craftsman pro tools are a great deal but they do not offer every tool a pro could want at that quality level. It is hard to tell if the similar Matco and Craftsman tools get the same heat treatment or quality inspection etc... All I can say is that I have been very happy with the Craftsman pro tools I have. (Both the Danaher and the S-K manufactured tools)

 

[Mandres]

isn't it possible that although the same castings / machining techiques were used on both brands that a much higher quality of steel was used for the Matco's? I wouldn't think that's something you could tell by examining the chrome plating and it would help to explain the huge price difference.

 

[MAD]

isn't it possible that although the same castings / machining techiques were used on both brands that a much higher quality of steel was used for the Matco's? I wouldn't think that's something you could tell by examining the chrome plating and it would help to explain the huge price difference.

I am sure that if it is an easy thing in the production process to use a cheaper alloy for the Craftsman polished wrenches and they can still meet the specifications of their contract with Sears than they do that. If it more efficient and cost effective to use the same raw material for both lines than that is what they do. Its all about making money.

 

[epmills]

Is what ticks me off, are tools like matco's WCS190A, its a wire stripper that they sell for 29.90 according to their website. Now check out harbor freight's http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=36143 . I've literally compared the two when the matco guy came to the shop, and they are 99% identical (the 1% being the matco logo). There is no reason for the significant price differance but greed (and the suckers who think that brand name is better every time).

 

[jimmycrackcorn]

I had a set of napa pro wrenches, saw a guy using what i though where the same set, but to my surprise they where stamped matco. Same exact wrenches, i don't believe they are processed different except when they stamp them.

 

[wilbilt]

I don't believe there is any discernible difference between the two. The tool truck franchisees are pretty close to the bottom of what amounts to a pyramid scheme. It's just MLM with a different name, just like any other franchise.

The dealers' margins are very slim, but they are greater as one moves up the supply chain. The head office (Marketing Dept.) makes the biggest profit, followed by the national and regional distributors.

The dealers and their customers are the ones taking it in the shorts.

It's like Black and Decker with DeWalt, or Home Depot and Ridgid. Put a known brand name on it, and it will sell regardless of where it actually came from.

 

[Uncle Buck]

The "because they can" reason is why I'm always skeptical of the prices the tool trucks charge for their products. I have a hard time believing it cost these manufacturers 3-4 times what it costs a company like Craftsman to make a tool.

We've already seen a specific example of how Matco just rebadges a Craftsman tool, and adds a huge markup to it.

Is it really so far-fetched to think that ALL the premium tool companies aren't just selling products that costs a little more to manufacture than a Craftsman or similar hardware store brand tool and adding a ridiculous markup?

I do not think it costs them that much more to make the tool, what you are paying the big money for is the nice man to conveniently drive the truck to your place, and work heavily on credit. (sears credit % rates are insane though!)

 

[Jbullfrog]

The difference in price is based on what the market will bare. Mechanics have the mentallitiy that the name on the tool makes it better. The other key is that the tool truck distributors are financing the tools they sell. If a "newbie" stops coming to work the tool truck dealer has to eat what he was owed. Sears and the other stores only take cash or plastic. The truck brands also offer warranty on there tools being used professionally, if you read the Sears warranty it states the warranty doesn't cover professional use on alot of things. Basically, when you buy a Snap-on socket you are also buying the 3 or 4 replacement sockets that you may need through out your lifetime.

 

[Uncle Buck]

The difference in price is based on what the market will bare. Mechanics have the mentallitiy that the name on the tool makes it better. The other key is that the tool truck distributors are financing the tools they sell. If a "newbie" stops coming to work the tool truck dealer has to eat what he was owed. Sears and the other stores only take cash or plastic. The truck brands also offer warranty on there tools being used professionally, if you read the Sears warranty it states the warranty doesn't cover professional use on a lot of things. Basically, when you buy a Snap-on socket you are also buying the 3 or 4 replacement sockets that you may need through out your lifetime.

Everything said is true except the part about warranty, if you do not wrench in a shop on the route, good luck getting that warranty, least that has been my experience. The only way I get great warranty service is to have my mechanic neighbor down the street turn mine in for repair/replacement! So sad when you consider the price originally paid for most of these tools. I love S/O tools but the warranty *****! (I put some popcorn on and have a cold one waiting for you, come on in and have a seat!)

 

[l_bilyk]

Thats like those micro head ratchets from mac... you can buy identical husky ratchets for less

 

[reversegear]

Yep. And Craftsman-branded Gearwrenches really are made in the USA...sure they are...just keep repeating it and will be true...

They are. They are produced at Danaher's Armstrong facility in Dallas.

Added by edit: Actually, might be the Kingsley factory.

 

[wilbilt]

They are. They are produced at Danaher's Armstrong facility in Dallas.

Added by edit: Actually, might be the Kingsley factory.

It does not make sense for them to produce one line of them domestically when every other Gearwrench is made overseas. Got any photos of the manufacturing process?

 

[kartracer55]

So people ***** about a 200$ difference in this but will spend 10-20K because they want a Lexus, when its really just a toyota. The RX330 everybody loves? Sold as a TOYOTA outside of North America. Lexus ES= Toyota Camry. How about Audi and VW?

This is nothing new and shouldnt be too shocking. The ratchets are similar too.

 

[Jeeper]

So people ***** about a 200$ difference in this but will spend 10-20K because they want a Lexus, when its really just a toyota. The RX330 everybody loves? Sold as a TOYOTA outside of North America. Lexus ES= Toyota Camry. How about Audi and VW?

This is nothing new and shouldnt be too shocking. The ratchets are similar too.

I disagree with your comparison. True toyota makes lexus and they share some components, but many components are different and much more expensive. Plus a car has thousands of components where a wrench has 1, a ratchet has under 50.

 

[wrenchr]

If Snap On made a car it would be better then everyone else's!!! lol

 

[chad s]

If Snap On made a car it would be better then everyone else's!!! lol

Do you think if they made a car, they would develop their own esclusive fastener head, so you had to buy all of the tools to fix them from Snap on?

 

[boiler7904]

Do you think if they made a car, they would develop their own esclusive fastener head, so you had to buy all of the tools to fix them from Snap on?

Yep. Probably end up with some oddball size drive for the tools too. How does 7/16" sound?

And the lug nut wrench for the spare wouldn't be standard equipment.

 

[wrenchr]

NO Snappy would include a tool set at no extra charge! hahahaha.

 

[kartracer55]

I disagree with your comparison. True toyota makes lexus and they share some components, but many components are different and much more expensive. Plus a car has thousands of components where a wrench has 1, a ratchet has under 50.

I too must disagree. A good number of the parts are interchangeable, and when you strip away the plastic wood trim, it really is the same damn car.. just look underneath one. The main difference is marketing, and that Lexus vehicles are offered with the larger engines than are available in their Toyota counterparts to maintain a sense of exclusivity. In fact, you can build Avalon's and Camry's now with many of the same "luxury" features as their Lexus counterparts, and the price tags can get into the 30-40K range.

My friend has an IS and quite frankly its worth about half of what he paid. Its slow, has a mediocre ride and doesn't handle all that well. Even with Toyo Proxies its slushy and tends to have a lot of under steer. Definitely NOT a $34K car, yet you see these things all over the road (mostly leases because people cant afford to pay for their cars)

Jim

 

[wilbilt]

(mostly leases because people cant afford to pay for their cars)

True words, there.

 

[MAD]

I had a set of napa pro wrenches, saw a guy using what i though where the same set, but to my surprise they where stamped matco. Same exact wrenches, i don't believe they are processed different except when they stamp them.

I think this happens a lot. I recently picked up a set of large Blackhawk metric combination wrenches. The 24mm is an absolute clone of a Master Mechanic brand (True value house brand) wrench I picked up when one of our local downtown hardware stores closed up.

 

[reversegear]

It does not make sense for them to produce one line of them domestically when every other Gearwrench is made overseas. Got any photos of the manufacturing process?

My company is one of their biggest competitors in this area, so I'd love to have some pics of their operation. But I doubt they'd let me anywhere near their factories carrying a camera.

It makes sense for Danaher to produce ratcheting wrenches in both places because they can sell at higher prices in Sears, and also sell the Made in USA product to the U.S. military. As long as they are the only company with a USA made ratcheting wrench, they are in a strong position to keep those accounts. But they also sell to markets in Europe, Australia, etc. So they have the Taiwan production for those markets and for the cheaper Gearwrench brand in the U.S.

If you look at the Craftsman 8-piece reversible set, it says "Made in USA" at the bottom of the tray. No serious company can afford to play games with that- ask Stanley. They got a beatdown from the FTC back in the 90's for playing fast and loose with the 'Made in USA' requirements.

 

[Spookrider]

The Snap-On Car the glove box and trunk would be tool box??

 

[MAD]

The Snap-On Car the glove box and trunk would be tool box??

The Snap-on car would be boxy, slow, and heavy but have lots of cool stuff inside. When you take it in for service, the mechanics would pay you!