Sewer Line Sleeving?

[jocool1585]

I have a PVC sewer line running from my detached garage into the line in my house that has never been hooked up. It is about a 30' run and goes under a paver sidewalk and some landscaping. The garage was partially finished and the water and sewer lines were ran from the house to the garage, but never tied in. The sewer line is full of groundwater, so I assume that a fitting has failed somewhere in the run. Rather than dig up the line, I'm considering sleeving it it.

Has anyone here ever used a three or four inch trash pump intake hose inside of an existing line? I would sleeve the existing line, and use the threaded ends to tie into the existing PVC. Seems like a low-cost, rigid, solution to this issue...

 

[highballxs]

I think its unlikely a fitting failed. I would guess that a portion of the unused pvc pipe failed as that's usually what goes. It can be from water turned ice, or the pipe crushed from some other construction.

I would try to send a snake through first, find out the distance to the crushed section, and dig up and repair with slip joints. Just my 2 cents.

I guess if the snake goes through freely than maybe a fitting did fail, in which case maybe your sleeve would work.

I'd be interested in how this turns out...

 

[jocool1585]

I have photos from when the previous owner installed the lines and they are not the normal gasketed sewer lines. They are pvc with glued couplings. I'm guessing that the glue failed on one of them.

I guess the two questions I have are:
1) Is it a big deal that rainwater is seeping in there? I assume that means that wastewater would likely leak out...
2) From a resale perspective, would you balk at seeing this type of connection tying in the detached building sewer?

 

[highballxs]

The schedule 40 PVC you're looking at is the norm in new construction. Mostly gone are the days of old iron lines, unless your trying to keep an interior wall quieter.

As for your sleeve fix: An inspector would definitely look at your hose repair. I certainly doubt it would pass inspection unless you could get some sort of "detached building" variance, or if you hid the connection (which would be unwise as it will almost certainly need servicing).

The pvc solvent and glue that they use on those connections is much less likely to fail than the gaskets of old. The glue actually bonds the plastic together, fusing the plastic together chemically. It is unlikely that a joint failed.

Fixing PVC pipe is easy, just dig down, cut out bad section, and re-sleeve new section with slip joints or rubber clamp joints.

Best luck

 

[jocool1585]

Here's a shot of the joints, like I said there's landscaping over them now...I guess if sleeving isn't a good plan - out comes the shovels....

 

[Falcon67]

X2 - if the joints were done properly, the pipe will have to fail before the joint. I would dig and fix, not try to sleeve. Are you sure it's ground water and not back flow from the house because of a slope issue?

 

[jocool1585]

The line has never been connected to anything and is above the floor of the crawlspace and sealed inside the garage. It's got to be groundwater. I'll plan on digging in the spring. Still curious if anyone has ever sleeved a line like a described in the original post though.

 

[BADSIX]

most sewer repair co. have a camera that they can feed down the pipe and see if its chushed or broken some place

 

[highballxs]

most sewer repair co. have a camera that they can feed down the pipe and see if its chushed or broken some place

Thats right, and if you know anyone in the field you can borrow one. Or, just try pushing a snake through there. My guess is that it will get hung up on crushed pipe/dirt, probably caused by the shovel when landscaping.

There are companies that sleeve pipes, they do this in cities to avid the expense of excavators. It is extremely expensive, highly automated, and for much larger pipes.

That pipe is barely underground... its broke. Push the snake til it gets stuck (make sure you're not just catching on fittings). Mark the snake and measure the distance so you know approximately where to dig. Dig it up and fix. It will be much cheaper (probably 30 bucks) than buying that sewer hose that you wont be able to push through anyways.

 

[highballxs]

The line has never been connected to anything and is above the floor of the crawlspace and sealed inside the garage. It's got to be groundwater. I'll plan on digging in the spring. Still curious if anyone has ever sleeved a line like a described in the original post though.

Missed your last post. Good call on digging, shouldn't be too bad as its not too deep.

Good luck!

 

[jocool1585]

The photo is deceiving, I'm told it's around 4'+ down to it. We'll see - ground is frozen right now, so this will be a spring project.

 

[59 wagon man]

if the line was never hooked up maybe one of the caps on the end of the pipe is leaking . i would recomend before you waste your time digging call around to a few plumbers and see what they get to camera the line .talk to a company owner and see if you can get a deal from the guy for a quick look

 

[Torque1st]

Any pipe placed under ground and exposed to atmosphere at any point will fill with water from condensation.

There is probably nothing wrong with your pipe.

 

[jocool1585]

Torque - I like your angle.... the water is completely clear, no sediment or anything in it...

 

[Torque1st]

Drain the line, run a hose or snake through it if you think a test is needed. Then hook it up!

Over-thinking things is a common problem.

 

[robertlynk]

Any pipe placed under ground and exposed to atmosphere at any point will fill with water from condensation.

There is probably nothing wrong with your pipe.

+1 I agree run a snake in the line pull a rope back through. Then make a foam plug. Tie it to the rope then pull through to force water out then cap and wait until spring and check water content again

 

[stonewellmark]

was the pipe back filled with stone or just the dirt that was dug out??? if it was back filled with the dirt the dirt will settle and that glued coupling will break/crack, if its small enough little to no sediment will enter the pipe. either way just dig it up, fix it and chock it up to experience. best of luck

 

[JoeMopar]

Any pipe placed under ground and exposed to atmosphere at any point will fill with water from condensation.

There is probably nothing wrong with your pipe.

I agree. Numerous time when we uncap underground pipes they have water in them from condensation. Cap each end and put a pressure test on it.

 

[DIAZ 87]

I have a PVC sewer line running from my detached garage into the line in my house that has never been hooked up. It is about a 30' run and goes under a paver sidewalk and some landscaping. The garage was partially finished and the water and sewer lines were ran from the house to the garage, but never tied in. The sewer line is full of groundwater, so I assume that a fitting has failed somewhere in the run. Rather than dig up the line, I'm considering sleeving it it.

Has anyone here ever used a three or four inch trash pump intake hose inside of an existing line? I would sleeve the existing line, and use the threaded ends to tie into the existing PVC. Seems like a low-cost, rigid, solution to this issue...[/QUOT


That is 100000000000% A NO NO!!!!!

 

[DIAZ 87]

jocool1585, what part of illinois are you from

 

[DIAZ 87]

Here's a shot of the joints, like I said there's landscaping over them now...I guess if sleeving isn't a good plan - out comes the shovels....

No gravel or sand under the pipe more than likely the line is back pitch

 

[6768rogues]

The camera is a good idea, but will probably be too expensive. At work, I didn't want to pay $1000 every time we had a line video taped, so we bought a 200 foot camera for $8000. We use it a lot, but it is not a homeowner toy unless you have a bigger toy budget than I.

 

[slip knot]

I agree. Numerous time when we uncap underground pipes they have water in them from condensation. Cap each end and put a pressure test on it.

What he said.

Cap the line at each end and apply a small amount of air pressure, 5psi or so. let this stand for a few hours. My bet is that the water is condensate and you line is OK. When properly bedded and buried a 4" scedule 40 PVC pipe is a tough SOB. A simple shovel aint gonna hurt it none.

 

[volvo]

.
+1...Pressure test it.

 

[contactme_11]

Any pipe placed under ground and exposed to atmosphere at any point will fill with water from condensation.

There is probably nothing wrong with your pipe.

+1 and just for the record, I worked for several years for a plumbing company.

 

[79firebird]

wait a min. you say its full of water. if it was leaking couldent it drain out. Heres my idea could they have filled it with water to presure test befor they cover it up and stop it from trying to brake when filled in? i know i use to do that when i worked for a plumber for a bit.

 

[59 wagon man]

pressure test maybe like spitting into the wind. if one cap is a little loose what will the pressure test show? on a residential line a camera price runs from $250 to $450 . like i suggested call around and see if you can find a guy to make a deal with. my new camera is battery powered up to 100' takes about 10 seconds to set up and would only take 5 mins to video 40' of pipe residential and small line camera's run between $1700 and $5500

 

[kaffine]

I have seen a setup where they will pull a new line in. The new line is attached to a cone and the cone breaks the old pipe as it is pulled through. If you decide it has to be replaced that might be an option. Not sure on cost or if your AHJ will allow it.

You can get sewer cameras from ebay for a few hundred. They are not as good as the commercial setups but a lot cheaper. I got one for around $300 if I remeber correctly. It wont go through anything smaller the 3" though.

 

[jocool1585]

That's called a Pipe Bursting machine and would be way overkill for a job this size, regardless of how deep the line was!

I work in the equipment industry and have seen these things do their work in the past - very cool!
http://www.ditchwitch.com/trenchless/pipe-bursters/PR100/

 

[JoeMopar]

pressure test maybe like spitting into the wind. if one cap is a little loose what will the pressure test show? on a residential line a camera price runs from $250 to $450 . like i suggested call around and see if you can find a guy to make a deal with. my new camera is battery powered up to 100' takes about 10 seconds to set up and would only take 5 mins to video 40' of pipe residential and small line camera's run between $1700 and $5500

A can of PVC glue, a couple of caps and a valve............10 - 15 dollars. IMHO worth trying before spending hundreds on a camera.