Electrical failed inspection, had some new surprises

[haugy]

Well when the lady at the permit office says "I'm sorry, but Randy is going to be your inspector, good luck". You know that's not good.

So after making sure I had everything in my shop buttoned up like a pro, I called in the inspection.

Fail.

First reason: #2 aluminum feeder line not enough for amperage allowed. It's a 100amp subpanel, and he cleared it on rough in. That one ticked me off.

Second reason: Needs an intersystem bonding means...........a what???
I had to do some research to figure out that one. Apparently there is a new code in my area that if I'm running coax an internet I need to have an intersystem grounding bar. Basically if I ever want to put dish, or I need to ground the cable, I have it already. But it doesn't even have to be in the ground, just line run for one.

Third reason: Needs a main breaker at the panel in the shop for a full shut down. That was easy.

Fourth reason: Cover plates on all boxes. Well I thought I had that. Every power box had a plate or plug and plate on it. I left my boxes for speaker wire, and Cat6 cables open since I'm going to try and paint after it passes inspection. Nope, all must be covered. Geez.

So I got a few surprises on this one, and an apparently very picky inspector. The thing that really bugs me is I now have to drop my subpanel to a 90-amp box because he changed his mind I guess on the feeder line.

Just letting yall know what I ran into to maybe garner something from it.

 

[neverenoughtools]

I upped my service and installed a new panel & rewired the whole place, all new switches , receptacles, and cover plates. The inspector noticed a few things ( relatively minor ) one hole too close to the stud edge.....put a protection plate over it, on the entrance from the mast to the panel , he wanted duxseal to seal any air / moisture infiltration.

One receptacle was too shallow for the quantity of wires in it , so a deeper box was required. He said if I correct all these items , then He would pass the installation. I said no problem, I'd rectify all & he gave me a pass.

 

[tdkkart]

I would immediately call the office back and why in the hell there is a difference in inspectors. Either they all do it right, or they all do it wrong, there's not much in-between.

 

[fefarms]

The argument over #2 aluminum is a very common one. It is allowed a rating of 100 amps for feeders serving a dwelling. It is only allowed a rating 90 amps for feeders serving a shop.

You don't need to change out the subpanel. Just change the breaker in the main panel to 90 amps and the feeder is protected and the installation is code compliant. It is perfectly allowable to have a subpanel with much more capacity than the feeder that serves it, so long as the feeder is adequate for the actual load of the circuits served by the subpanel.

Because of the odd economics of big box stores, I've used 200 amp main breaker panels in shop buildings provided with only a 60 amp feeder. In addition, I wired my house with 3 of these 200 amp panels in the basement, each provided with a 125 amp feeder. The big panels provide room for more breakers with more internal wiring space, and cost about the same as smaller panels. Inspector was fine with it.

The inspector did a low voltage inspection as well as final electrical. The requirments for a bonding means and the pickiness over the LV boxes flow from that. A paid low voltage contractor is expected to meet these codes, and an inspector will insist that they do. He could have cut you some slack on the LV boxes as there aren't nearly the same safety issues as with 240 volts.

The code for the intersystem bonding means in Oregon can be satisfied by running a green bonding wire from the ground bar in a convenient panel over to the LV system . You don't need additional ground rods.

 

[MScott]

When I was rewiring my daughter's house three different inspectors came, one on rough-in and two final. All had different issues and requirements. Fortunately, when I saw the differences between the rough-in inspection and the first "final" inspection, I wrote down all the adjustments and had the inspector initial it. The final inspector had his own ideas, but when confronted with the list accepted the changes even though he said some of the changes should not have been required. It is annoying to have everyone working to a different set of rules.

 

[haugy]

I would immediately call the office back and why in the hell there is a difference in inspectors. Either they all do it right, or they all do it wrong, there's not much in-between.

That's the crazy part. It's the same inspector. I tried to call him and ask why he passed it first, then changed his mind.

You don't need to change out the subpanel. Just change the breaker in the main panel to 90 amps and the feeder is protected and the installation is code compliant. It is perfectly allowable to have a subpanel with much more capacity than the feeder that serves it, so long as the feeder is adequate for the actual load of the circuits served by the subpanel.

The inspector did a low voltage inspection as well as final electrical. The requirments for a bonding means and the pickiness over the LV boxes flow from that. A paid low voltage contractor is expected to meet these codes, and an inspector will insist that they do. He could have cut you some slack on the LV boxes as there aren't nearly the same safety issues as with 240 volts.

The code for the intersystem bonding means in Oregon can be satisfied by running a green bonding wire from the ground bar in a convenient panel over to the LV system . You don't need additional ground rods.

Yeah, I switched out the mains, it was just another pain. The LV system is run in separately in two conduits to isolate them, so I did that. I ran a separate grounding wire from the back of the panel, tied into the LV system, and then ran a grounding wire so he could see I could isolate them if I wanted to. I wasn't taking chances on him failing me again. I could see him saying they need to be separate or something.

 

[ishiboo]

LV inspection is a joke. The only thing inspectors should be worried about are OSHA things (like, no running cat5 cable where someone can trip), and HVAC things like no non-plenum cable in plenum-required areas, etc.

We are the only city in our area with a LV inspector for commercial. Basically, the lead inspector created a job and filled it with a friend. The code is chosen and enforced at will.

Next we'll have a landscape inspector and set of code.

 

[cowboyjosh]

In Colorado, City and County of Denver to be exact, one of our competitors employees and the inspector actually got into a fist fight over a "failed" final at a swanky new hotel over **** that was trivial at best. The inspector in question is/was a real *****, he was a EE who couldn't get a real job so he got a job with the building AHJ and pissed off every electrical contractor in town off all day, he was one of those kids who were on nothing but a power trip, only because he could.

In another county I had an inspector fail our final because we mixed light bulb wattages, heres what he didn't like. Say in a bathroom the light bar was rated for 60 watt bulbs, on one bar he found that we had a 40 watt bulb mixed in with 60 watters; same county different inspector we were failed already because we installed a Square D QO sub panel off a GE main panel; we were failed because we "mixed" brands of equipment; of course we bitched and won. We only install Square D, thats why we didn't install a GE to match.

 

[Aceman]

I don't see the problem, the inspector did his job. You just didn't like the outcome. Yes, he may not have noticed the #2 and called you on it the first inspection, but all it requires on your part is swapping to a 90 amp breaker to correct. If you're chapped #2 isn't good enough for 100 amps that's your fault for not doing more research, it's been brought up time and again on this forum as being only 90 amp wire. Same with a main breaker panel(or some other means of disconnect) being required in a detached garage.

 

[fireguy]

I finished up an fire system install and the inspector was late. When he finally showed up, he was pissed because the previous job was an electrical inspection. The problem, as he explained, no one except him knew how to hydro-test a panel. One can only roll eyes sometimes to keep from making comments.

 

[Rickochet]

Many professional electricians and inspectors think that the sun rises & sets upon their commands. That is all I'm going to say about that.....

 

[gatchel]

My inspector failed my final because of an exterior outlet box that didn't have an "In Use" Cover on it, just the weather tight one. He did this after walking past two exterior outlets on the house that had the same exact weather tight ones installed.

Of course immediately after he failed it he said that I could give him a check for $40 now so that all I had to do was call him once the "issue" is corrected and he could stop by and sticker it while I was not at home.

For something this trivial what's the point. To make money, IMHO. I understand that the house exterior outlets were grandfathered but then what the hell is the point of the code. If it's safer to put some piece of **** plastic "in use" outlet cover that will leak and eventually break off, then why not enforce the code across the board if it's such a big huge deal that it warrants a failure. Some things I understand and agree with, most I do not.

This is the same guy who approved using 2-2-2-4 Aluminum SER cable in a 2" conduit with a 100A breaker at the main. Of course I didn't call him on it brecause I will probably never use the 100A capacity or even close to it for any duration of time.

What do they really know? How make money and how to take your money.

 

[kywildcat]

I would immediately call the office back and why in the hell there is a difference in inspectors. Either they all do it right, or they all do it wrong, there's not much in-between.

I was a Federal housing inpector for 10 year's at Ft. Knox, KY. There is a standard that all inspectors have to use, and some go by the book, and some are very lax. I always hated following up a inspection by one of the other inspector's. He was lax and really didn't do his job, and I always made people mad becuase I would fail something he had not told the client to fix. I was a hard inspector to pass, but the main thing is consistancy..........and I always was that. Bottom line of any inspector is, that if they are the LAST one to sign off on a job, it is their's to explain if something goes wrong. I'm not saying it's the best system, but it is what it is.

 

[CUSTOMMANCAVES.COM]

Next we'll have a landscape inspector and set of code.

Don't laugh...we have a landscape code/inspection here. You have to have so much "green space" per lot/building size. They take aerial photos of each/every parcel once a year and an inspector counts your trees. If they find a tree missing, you have to replace it with like/kind or you get fined (daily).

We also have to have permits/inspections to replace window screens. $100 per building permit fee, whether you have 100 screens or 10.

 

[haugy]

I don't see the problem, the inspector did his job. You just didn't like the outcome. Yes, he may not have noticed the #2 and called you on it the first inspection, but all it requires on your part is swapping to a 90 amp breaker to correct. If you're chapped #2 isn't good enough for 100 amps that's your fault for not doing more research, it's been brought up time and again on this forum as being only 90 amp wire. Same with a main breaker panel(or some other means of disconnect) being required in a detached garage.

Thanks for the insight. How's the career as an inspector working for ya?

Try reading it again. What ticked me off is how he passed it once, then failed it later. I was there for the rough in because I knew there would be some comments on some other stuff. I asked about the panel specifically. I have no problems being within code. What I have a problem with is someone saying something is okay first, then coming back later saying another.

I'm not going to get into an electrical debate with you since it's apparent you can't read. With the changes I encountered and me running new items like all the low voltage stuff, I posted to give people a heads up on what can happen.

 

[haugy]

Don't laugh...we have a landscape code/inspection here. You have to have so much "green space" per lot/building size. They take aerial photos of each/every parcel once a year and an inspector counts your trees. If they find a tree missing, you have to replace it with like/kind or you get fined (daily).

We also have to have permits/inspections to replace window screens. $100 per building permit fee, whether you have 100 screens or 10.

Holy ****. Are you serious? I'd hate to see what they would say to me replacing my house doors, gutters, and garage door. Sheesh

 

[RossABQ]

I had my detached garage built by an outfit that (I soon found out) was on the inspectors' ****-list, and likely for good reasons. Try to get anything passed when the inspectors are all greased to screw this guy every chance they get! Like at the Final COO inspection, they threw a tape on the outside walls, and said it's a foot taller than the plans and permit say... which it was, but it had been for three months, before stucco and roofing. They jerked him around for a month, the only way I got a COO was to intervene with the inspectors.

 

[CUSTOMMANCAVES.COM]

Holy ****. Are you serious? I'd hate to see what they would say to me replacing my house doors, gutters, and garage door. Sheesh

All those items must be hurricane approved/rated and all require permits/inspection...even garden sheds.

 

[IDASHO]

Rule #1

Do not piss of the inspector.

Rule #2

ALWAYS leave a "gimme" problem for him to find. Something easy to repair, and somewhat obvious.

No inspector likes to leave without finding SOMETHING wrong.


Trust me on these ones.
My father was a building inspector for 35 years.
These tips came from HIM

 

[CUSTOMMANCAVES.COM]

Rule #1

Do not piss of the inspector.

Rule #2

ALWAYS leave a "gimme" problem for him to find. Something easy to repair, and somewhat obvious.

No inspector likes to leave without finding SOMETHING wrong.

Nope. I go out of my way to make sure all t's are crossed/i's are dotted. My crew thinks I'm a nut-job when I have them making sure screws on wallplates are vertical, etc.

Perfect inspection record to date. No "fails" in 10 yrs. I've had inspectors question/challenge, but I'm ready for them!

 

[IDASHO]

Nope. I go out of my way to make sure all t's are crossed/i's are dotted. My crew thinks I'm a nut-job when I have them making sure screws on wallplates are vertical, etc.

Perfect inspection record to date. No "fails" in 10 yrs. I've had inspectors question/challenge, but I'm ready for them!

You are a contractor/builder.

Those rules are more set for the "average joe's" on the forum.

Contractors build relationships with local inspectors.

Average Joes dont. It is more of a one-night-stand.

 

[Aceman]

Thanks for the insight. How's the career as an inspector working for ya?

Try reading it again. What ticked me off is how he passed it once, then failed it later. I was there for the rough in because I knew there would be some comments on some other stuff. I asked about the panel specifically. I have no problems being within code. What I have a problem with is someone saying something is okay first, then coming back later saying another.

I'm not going to get into an electrical debate with you since it's apparent you can't read. With the changes I encountered and me running new items like all the low voltage stuff, I posted to give people a heads up on what can happen.

I'm an electrician, not an inspector.

 

[Gigfy]

"What ticked me off is how he passed it once, then failed it later. I was there for the rough in because I knew there would be some comments on some other stuff. I asked about the panel specifically."


I can sympathize. However, the inspector really just missed it the first time, and it could happen to anybody since there is a ton of things to check. He pretty much had to enforce it when he caught it on the final. It's a little too big to overlook. He should have apologized though.

However, it sounds to me he was acting like a jerk anyway to fail you on the covers. Ridiculous to make you put them on, when you have to take them right back off. Sounds like the idget is trying to force everything to be black and white, when there are clearly judgment calls, especially on a minor issue like that.

 

[Norcal]

Until a 100A circuit breaker was installed on a #2 AL conductor there were no code issues, in-use/bubble covers are required on almost every exterior receptacle, unless existing, then they are fine until they are replaced, at that time they need to be upgraded.

 

[cowboyjosh]

During the Super Bowl I was talking with another Electrician buddy of mine about failed inspections, he failed a final because they didn't put the little stickers that come with GFCI outlets stating "GFCI PROTECTED OUTLET" on the GFCI outlets throughout the house.

As for the comment above stating contractors build relationships with inspectors; not always. Allot of times inspectors and contractors **** heads because one gets off talking down to the other and both think they are more educated then the other.

 

[green.bubbly]

Fortunately, I think I will have a great relationship with my house and garage inspectors. The lead inspector is almost always in the office which is on my way to work. Having never built a home or garage, I have a lot of questions. He encouraged me to stop by his office and ask any questions which I have already done.

One big issue was my foundation. The steel building company would not tell me what foundation requirements I needed and the concrete guys did not want to. I was told I needed to get an engineer so I stopped by the inspectors office. He pulled my plans out and proceeded to explain what he wanted for the foundation. 2x2x2 cube under each column and 12x24 between the columns which must be at least 12" in ground. Even drew me pictures of how he wants the rebar.


I told him I appreciated his help and we started talking about inspectors. His comment was that 70% of their job is public relations and he does not want a bunch of ******* inspectors going around ******* people off. He said their job is to support and encourage building in our area. He said that he would rather me stop by and ask questions versus wasting money and doing it wrong. On top of that, they have great coffee.

 

[dirttracker18]

Same with my building inspector when I bult the shop (he has since quit and moved on). He said the same thing, asking questions in advance can avoid a lot of problems down the road. He took the time to explain a few details and yes also drew up some diagrams of how he wanted things. He was also good enough to explain his reasoning on things he wanted.
I was a good way to start a relationship. He stopped by when I was not home to do some instpections and just left a note with a couple of minor things to do and said carry on when completed.

My electrical also had two different inspectors. My final had one change he wanted made but cleared me on final with my word I would make the change, which I promptly did. Wrong colour wire (blue) on my feed, please wrap with white electrical tape in house and garage boxes.

 

[csp]

I had an inspector that gave me **** every time he came to do an inspection. One time he told me that the permit card needed to be in ** location. The next time he didn't want it there.

Then he came to do a framing inspection on a deck and saw my Jeep sitting in the garage (even though it wasn't supposed to be there before I had the cert. of occupancy). He had built a few rockcrawlers and liked mine. Never had a failed inspection after that and even had lunch one day after he came to do my final framing/mechanical inspections.

 

[bmfenn]

During the whole process of building my garage, I was in my towns building department asking questions. Especially during the planning stages. Living near the coast, I found out the structure has to be rated for 120mph winds. Need a layer of block to separate the wood a foot from the ground level/slab, or treated wood is required. I used a prefab garage company, which doesn't do foundations. Being a prefab amish shed and garage outfit, they don't provide exact blueprints or plans. I drew all the plans myself from what they sent me. I would bring the plans in, an inspector would look at it, and they would tell me what to amend. One even stopped by my house with copies he made from the code book, and sat in my dining room and showed me how to include pieces that needed to be there, without doing everything over.

When the towns zoning engineer had questions about my plans about the garage slab height, relative to the grade, and the storm drains, I stared at him blankly. He stopped by my house a few days later with his surveying tools, and shot measurements from the street, driveway, and storm drains, and put the correct heights on the plans for me.

The town has a comment card system. If you fill one out and put an employees name on it, it goes in their personnell file. I had two of the inspectors, and the zoning engineer actually call me later on, and tell me how much they appreciated me filling out the card, as people typically only bother with them when they are angry.

The only problem an inspector had was when they did the framing inspection, was that the inspector told me to put lag bolts in the ledgerboards supporting the second floor, anchoring to every other stud. He just told me to take care of it before the final, and passed me anyway.

 

[sneezer41]

BMfenn; you have a great building department

I have had many good experiences with inspectors, of course I always try to be armed for bear, so that helps, anticipate questions, have answers.

I might be worth it to note that in the current economy, many departments are short staffed and while there is no excuse for bad behavior, some otherwise good men might be quite taxed and not as helpful as in times past.

 

[Pure Oil]

During the Super Bowl I was talking with another Electrician buddy of mine about failed inspections, he failed a final because they didn't put the little stickers that come with GFCI outlets stating "GFCI PROTECTED OUTLET" on the GFCI outlets throughout the house.

As for the comment above stating contractors build relationships with inspectors; not always. Allot of times inspectors and contractors **** heads because one gets off talking down to the other and both think they are more educated then the other.

YES INDEED!!! After I had completed my electrical project I double triple checked everything EXCEPT it was my son who found & then put the little stickers on...

 

[mtne]

In Colorado, City and County of Denver to be exact, one of our competitors employees and the inspector actually got into a fist fight over a "failed" final at a swanky new hotel over **** that was trivial at best. The inspector in question is/was a real *****, he was a EE who couldn't get a real job so he got a job with the building AHJ and pissed off every electrical contractor in town off all day, he was one of those kids who were on nothing but a power trip, only because he could.

In another county I had an inspector fail our final because we mixed light bulb wattages, heres what he didn't like. Say in a bathroom the light bar was rated for 60 watt bulbs, on one bar he found that we had a 40 watt bulb mixed in with 60 watters; same county different inspector we were failed already because we installed a Square D QO sub panel off a GE main panel; we were failed because we "mixed" brands of equipment; of course we bitched and won. We only install Square D, thats why we didn't install a GE to match.

Dale? Well Dales not a kid..... but he did fail one of our guys for having the coverplates slightly indented at the mounting screw. You know, the cheap "unbreakable" plastic ones..... He said the indent at the mount screw indicated that the cover was supporting the device in the wall and not the box ?!? The office was contacted and it was signed off....... When things got damn slow there were a rash of silly inspection failures to keep the workload up.

The part that pisses me off is the inconsistency between jurisdictions, and the amount of LV and FA stuff that is just **** that is allowed as often as not.

 

[mrb]

you dont need to put the stickers on the GFCIs, those are for downstream receptacles that are protected by the GFCI