Usa or bust!!

[mrholeshot]

OK, I've about had it. All my life as a working tech there was rarely a tool in my box that wasn't made in the USA. Every nor and then something of interest would earn it's way in but about 98% was USA like Snap-On, MAC and a little Craftsman. Over the last few years I've discovered some well made offshore brands(Gearwrench, Duralast, etc) that rival USA brands. Heres the deal, Either the company does the bait and switch with great tools then moves onto **** (Duralast) or wiggles it's way out of replacing the tool(Gearwrench) or in some cases tries to replace your broken USA tool with a China based tool (Craftsman and Mac) That it has become overwhemly obvious what the solution to the delemia is. Buy older USA, New USA that is marked USA and screw all the rest. I'm sick to death of being screwed over by so many tool companies because they can.Ive made up my mind that if it isn't Made in the USA, marked Made in the USA I'm not buying it. End of rant

 

[Krokodil]

May I introduce you to a little country in Europe whose name starts with a G....

 

[Moose-LandTran]

Ummmmm.. ok then?

But yeah, buy German. Recently i've been buying mostly German tools and they don't disappoint. Mostly Stahlwille and Hazet.

 

[Bull]

What caused you to lose your good opinion of Duralast?

 

[woody 73]

Darn this is the part where I want to see pictures of those pretty calendar girls...What ever happened to betty page, something tells me she must be dead. Say some of the men were showing pictures of a very lovely women I think her name was Jennifer Aniston. What ever happened to I dream of Jeannie is she still around?

 

[zer0cell]

Pretty much every non-electric hand tool I buy is either made in the USA or Germany from reputable brands. Aside from a couple quirky items, mostly I have been very pleased with the quality and because often I used a coupon or got them on sale the price has been very reasonable in most cases as well. I guess the exception goes for hand tools which are difficult or pretty much impossible to find made in those countries. Certain items really confuse me, like why it appears that no USA company exists that makes utilities knives... You'd think such a simple and relatively easy product to manufacture would be available in a quality domestic version, even if the price was higher than much of the competition. Does Germany make any good utility knives? I guess the search continues for that one...

 

[Rickster55]

But can you tell us how you REALLY feel?

 

[woody 73]

Say I wonder if those nice women all were all made in the USA?

 

[chadster1]

Where is that popcorn eating smiley when I need it.

 

[mikevango]

Holy ****! He flip flopped. Remember when guys were hating your smoke blowing duralast and harbor freight ratchet threads. Funny.
Now hopefully those same followers will stay with you on this too.

 

[Kirbot]

Personally, I'm not quite ready to give up on Duralast.
I never bought any of there sockets or anything but two of there ratchets.

As far as I know, the ratchets are still available, but only through special order (comfort handle).

It is aggravating though, but asian companies aren't the only ones this applies to.
Plenty of Craftsman stuff (even what is still made here) has turned to **** (raised panal ratchets, standard screwdrivers), the same could be said for Mac.

I think you've got the right Idea though, 95% of my hand tools were either bought at auction or flea market, and are old and made in USA.

Darn this is the part where I want to see pictures of those pretty calendar girls...What ever happened to betty page, something tells me she must be dead. Say some of the men were showing pictures of a very lovely women I think her name was Jennifer Aniston. What ever happened to I dream of Jeannie is she still around?

Bettie Page passed away just 3 years ago, Barbara Eden (Jeannie) is still around I believe though.
(whats this have to do with tools again?)

 

[chadster1]

Holy ****! He flip flopped. Remember when guys were hating your smoke blowing duralast and harbor freight ratchet threads. Funny.
Now hopefully those same followers will stay with you on this too.

Maybe he has multiple accounts on here just like he does on eBay.

 

[mrholeshot]

May I introduce you to a little country in Europe whose name starts with a G....

Some of those are outsorceing to asia, Nothing is sacred, lol

 

[mrholeshot]

Maybe he has multiple accounts on here just like he does on eBay.

I don't have multiple accounts on Ebay. I don't even have one. My wife has hers. I closed out my ebay account a few months ago. Back in the 90's I had multiple ebay accounts but that ended around 1997

 

[mrholeshot]

Holy ****! He flip flopped. Remember when guys were hating your smoke blowing duralast and harbor freight ratchet threads. Funny.
Now hopefully those same followers will stay with you on this too.

Never been a huge HF fan when it comes to the tools. I may test them, tell people they pass but I don't use them. They change so fast you never know what you are buying there. Some good buys in there but much of nothing I want.

 

[jeffk14]

Now hopefully those same followers will stay with you on this too.

Nah, I still like Duralast stuff, even if the selector lever on ratchets that come in sets is slightly different from those sold individually and even though some items are special order only.

To get decent quality, lifetime warranty and a price that's usually somewhere around 8 CENTS ON THE FRIGGIN' DOLLAR of what S/O wants for similar sets, I'll tolerate a little manufacturing and marketing "quirkiness".

 

[mrholeshot]

Pretty much every non-electric hand tool I buy is either made in the USA or Germany from reputable brands. Aside from a couple quirky items, mostly I have been very pleased with the quality and because often I used a coupon or got them on sale the price has been very reasonable in most cases as well. I guess the exception goes for hand tools which are difficult or pretty much impossible to find made in those countries. Certain items really confuse me, like why it appears that no USA company exists that makes utilities knives... You'd think such a simple and relatively easy product to manufacture would be available in a quality domestic version, even if the price was higher than much of the competition. Does Germany make any good utility knives? I guess the search continues for that one...

Somethings like electrical products you just don't have a choice. I was thinking of hard line tools

 

[bart1]

Some of those are outsorceing to asia, Nothing is sacred, lol

Yep, even my Hazet does it (e.g. Ratcheting wrenches). I refuse to pay the premium for stuff like that. If I buy any more ratcheting wrenches, I'll probably try to find used GW. At least I don't directly send money to them. Gedore makes ratcheting wrenches in Germany, probably should have bought them on sale last year.

I have recently become more aware of this and attempt to support US made when possible. FWIW, I work at a US company who has plants in China and we strive at my plant to be the best, including cost per unit. That's the real way to fix this "problem".

Surprised someone hasnt said "Use the search, this has been covered in multiple threads recently".

 

[mrholeshot]

What caused you to lose your good opinion of Duralast?

They have two differant qualites of Duralast. The new poor quality duralast is new. While I'm a big fan of the original I just find it to risky to buy anymore as there iis a good chance I'll get the cheap version if it has to be warrantied. Just not worth the risk

 

[zer0cell]

I personally feel hesitant buying a store brand of pretty much anything... the reasons being:

- Retail stores are very fragile these days, even seemingly big ones. They could go out of business without much warning.

- Retail stores may change the manufacturer of the brand on a dime and if that manufacturer happens to be worse, you are screwed.

- Retail stores may not be in the same area that you decide to move to... and lets face it now days people move from state to state frequently. If the store is not in your area, all those tools you took with you are a pain to warranty.

These are just some of the big reasons I feel skeptical. Sure, there are many other reasons and some of these could apply to manufacturers as well but I think retail store brands are far more volatile than say, an established brand which has been around like a hundred years with a reputation to uphold.

The ideal situation in my opinion, would be to have a warranty available direct from the manufacturer by mail if needed, or guaranteed repair/replacement (except cases of clear abuse or neglect) from any authorized dealer in the area - no questions asked.

 

[mrholeshot]

Surprised someone hasnt said "Use the search, this has been covered in multiple threads recently".

Screw them. This is my thread and I'll cry if I want to

 

[mrholeshot]

Where is that popcorn eating smiley when I need it.

Get me some M&Ms while youre at the snack bar will ya?

 

[demographic]

I've been buying from a small secondhand toolshop and generally buying British (well, that's where I live) or at least avoiding buying Chinese anyway.

There's quite a lot of choice out there as long as I don't need it yesterday and I prefer tools with a bit of provenance.

 

[zer0cell]

Just out of curriosity, did you vote on my OCD thread mrholeshot?

 

[mrholeshot]

Just out of curriosity, did you vote on my OCD thread mrholeshot?

Yes, I was in the worst case senerio, lol

 

[otis66]

OK, I've about had it. All my life as a working tech there was rarely a tool in my box that wasn't made in the USA. Every nor and then something of interest would earn it's way in but about 98% was USA like Snap-On, MAC and a little Craftsman. Over the last few years I've discovered some well made offshore brands(Gearwrench, Duralast, etc) that rival USA brands. Heres the deal, Either the company does the bait and switch with great tools then moves onto **** (Duralast) or wiggles it's way out of replacing the tool(Gearwrench) or in some cases tries to replace your broken USA tool with a China based tool (Craftsman and Mac) That it has become overwhemly obvious what the solution to the delemia is. Buy older USA, New USA that is marked USA and screw all the rest. I'm sick to death of being screwed over by so many tool companies because they can.Ive made up my mind that if it isn't Made in the USA, marked Made in the USA I'm not buying it. End of rant

Amen

 

[Davefr]

Ummmmm.. ok then?

But yeah, buy German. Recently i've been buying mostly German tools and they don't disappoint. Mostly Stahlwille and Hazet.

I bet seeking warranty replacements on German tools is a PIA. Are there even strong US distributers?

 

[chadster1]

I bet seeking warranty replacements on German tools is a PIA. Are there even strong US distributers?

I can warranty most Knipex items.

 

[zer0cell]

I bet seeking warranty replacements on German tools is a PIA. Are there even strong US distributers?

Knipex and Felo I've heard aren't too bad to get replaced from what I understand if you are living in the US. If I lived in Germany I'd probably buy mostly German tools but living in the states, I think it would be impractical to buy brands which do not have a reasonably strong presence here, or at least the ability to get it replaced under warranty without having to ship anything across the Atlantic...

 

[MadMark]

I'm not sure I would buy german tools.
Merkel refused to implement a stimulus program like Obama's, because since Germany exports more to the US, our stimulus program would lift their economy.

Also, almost every german I have ever met while overseas disparages the USA.

 

[pipsters]

I bought a bunch of Craftsman wrenches lately, weighed them against my fathers who bought them in the early 90's, they were exactly the same. Same dimensions, weight, etc. Same goes for the "crappy" screwdrivers" people blast, they were exactly the same down to the nearest gram. Pretty impressive.

For powertools, I almost always try to buy used if it's China made. That way no more $$ goes over to China. My Chinese HF toolbox was bought used off a guy trying to make his mortgage payment.

FWIW, Taiwan is actually an enemy of China, and uses US weapons to defend themselves. If that makes anyone feel better (it should). That being said a lot of the manufacturing plants in Taiwan are owned by the Chinese...

I also take the view about warranty, we are paying all this extra money to buy US made stuff which may be Chinese made when/if we need to replace it. Solution? Buy used off ebay or Craigslist or wherever. And use your tools carefully, don't abuse them, because when you go to replace them they might not be the same. I recently warrantied a bunch of Craftsman sockets and had to HUNT for the G1 and G2 sockets that came in my set as of 4-5 years ago. Most are now not even stamped representing the factory they are made in. That worries me, and I definitely won't be abusing my tools any more (ie impact w/ chrome sockets).

And as far as warrantying something that has to be mailed...it might as well not carry a warranty. You'll have to replace it immediately anyway because obviously you needed to use it, and the cost to mail it back will most likely more than pay for a new one anyway. So Sears Craftsman for warranty (US made product) or buy used IMO.

 

[johnnybentwrench]

I bet seeking warranty replacements on German tools is a PIA. Are there even strong US distributers?

Stahlwille North America warranties Stahlwille http://www.stahlwille-online.de/ind...3e3df95c715c0f55ef43c27a3b2&lid=2&mid=2&shid=. They seemed ok, I have not had to deal with warranty. I asked if it mattered where I bought it and they said they warranty ALL Stahlwille

 

[Kirbot]

Same dimensions, weight, etc. Same goes for the "crappy" screwdrivers" people blast, they were exactly the same down to the nearest gram. Pretty impressive.

Lol
I don't really care how much they weigh.
Try using the flat head to get a stuck screw out, and I think you'll see the difference.

Not only are the blades extremely sloppily machined, the metal is laughably soft.

 

[zer0cell]

I bought a bunch of Craftsman wrenches lately, weighed them against my fathers who bought them in the early 90's, they were exactly the same. Same dimensions, weight, etc. Same goes for the "crappy" screwdrivers" people blast, they were exactly the same down to the nearest gram. Pretty impressive.

For powertools, I almost always try to buy used if it's China made. That way no more $$ goes over to China. My Chinese HF toolbox was bought used off a guy trying to make his mortgage payment.

FWIW, Taiwan is actually an enemy of China, and uses US weapons to defend themselves. If that makes anyone feel better (it should). That being said a lot of the manufacturing plants in Taiwan are owned by the Chinese...

...and no one wants to go to war with the Chinese to liberate the Taiwanese.

 

[bczygan]

Every day inflation cuts into the value of products.
Manufacturers have 2 ways of attacking this.
First, they can raise the price.
Second, they can reduce the cost.

1/2 the price of SO is "Big brand name" cost. The other 1/2 is the true value.

If all the other brands were made in the US to great specs with wonderful return policies like SO, they would all cost a similar amount to that true SO value.

Each manufacturer has to find his own mix of price points and values for his range of products. Each buyer has to decide what he wants and is willing to pay for.

In a world where manufacturers are always changing things you either have to keep shooting at that moving target, or go with a stable but expensive mfg. like SO.
Your choice.

My thoughts

 

[Kirbot]

If all the other brands were made in the US to great specs with wonderful return policies like SO, they would all cost a similar amount to that true SO value.

I think the "industrial" brands like Proto, Armstrong, and particularly Williams, are all good examples of that.

Although, along with that "Big Brand Name" cost, also comes fantastic customer service, and a great, easy to use warranty.

When you have a broken Snapon tool, send them an email, and they'll send you a new tool.
I emailed Armstrong with a question about the warranty on one of my ratchets, and I never did hear back.

 

[pipsters]

Lol
I don't really care how much they weigh.
Try using the flat head to get a stuck screw out, and I think you'll see the difference.

Not only are the blades extremely sloppily machined, the metal is laughably soft.

I haven't had any problems. The only issue I have had is the nickle chrome plating comes right off, but the metal is fine. I do have some Williams screwdrivers and they are definitely better but you really can't compare a $10 screwdriver to a $1 one. They are designed for different purposes, the Craftsman $1 ones are great for around the home small things. "Use the right tool for the job".

I don't really see the sloppy machined part, they look great to me.

 

[Davefr]

And as far as warrantying something that has to be mailed...it might as well not carry a warranty. You'll have to replace it immediately anyway because obviously you needed to use it, and the cost to mail it back will most likely more than pay for a new one anyway. So Sears Craftsman for warranty (US made product) or buy used IMO.

I must be in the minority because I'd much rather mail a tool in to a US manufacturer's warranty center. (assuming they stand behind their warranty).

The alternative is to waste a ton of time and gas going to a B&M store like Sears and hope they have a replacement in stock.

The other alternative is to wait for the tool truck to make his rounds.

 

[pipsters]

I must be in the minority because I'd much rather mail a tool in to a US manufacturer's warranty center. (assuming they stand behind their warranty).

The alternative is to waste a ton of time and gas going to a B&M store like Sears and hope they have a replacement in stock.

The other alternative is to wait for the tool truck to make his rounds.

Depends on where you are, if you are in the boonies sure don't waste a "ton" of gas, my Sears is 10 mins away and about $0.50 in gas. Plus, I can call ahead, which I do regularly and have them set the item aside with my name on it.

If they don't have it, they order it and either send it to my house or to the store.

 

[kams1973]

Wow, taking your toys and going home over a ratchet rebuild kit.