91FE
Well-known member
Wise decision.
The classic question. Should I go into debt?
- Thread starter BowtieGuy
- Start date
Wise decision.
slopecarver
Well-known member
Let me revise my statement, It is because of companies like snap on that let you essentially take out a loan for something that you don't Need but Want that the US is in the toilet.
I'm glad you made the right decision and you should always take a step back and say is this a Need or Want? And on a larger scale: is this an Asset or Liability?
A rule of thumb I use is wait a day for every $50 something costs, if you still really really absolutely truly dearly Want the toolbox in 80 days then go for it, if it were still available.
I'm glad you made the right decision and you should always take a step back and say is this a Need or Want? And on a larger scale: is this an Asset or Liability?
A rule of thumb I use is wait a day for every $50 something costs, if you still really really absolutely truly dearly Want the toolbox in 80 days then go for it, if it were still available.
6K of debt paid at $56 a week means about $1,700 just in interest -- and that's only if you do not buy a single other tool for the next two years and seven months. And you're out of pocket $248 every month during that time.*
*If my math is right, and your Snap On guy is at 19%
*If my math is right, and your Snap On guy is at 19%
Frank The Plumber
Well-known member
Corruption, over extended pension obligations and too much cheese.
mtkst19
Well-known member
i got to page 2 and still need to finish. short answer is no. box does not make you money. unless you are packed tighter than virgin on prom night, keep your box.
however, from what i know on tool truck boxes as told from my friend who retailed Mac-there is almost 100% mark up on a box. So if mac can mark it up 100%, im sure so is around there too.
assuming this is true-- a 10k box may cost the dealer 5k. so if the dealer got anywhere near 5k paid on the box--he is ok. ****, for all we know the guy could have paid 6k off and lost his job/was repo'd. at that point box is really "paid" for and turned a 1k profit along w/ the resale at 4k and your box trade in. hell, dealer makes more money in this instance on repo over a straight sale.
way i was told is the gravy money for the tool man is the resale of the trade in box--as that is often times cash equity on his truck. it is easier to sale a 2k box than a 4k+ box. plus, they have so much margin to play with/discount that they can afford to give you a good trade in on a new box for your old worn out box. my $100 taco wagon spray painted black that i gave to my friend when i was done with it got him 2k in trade on a new box.
however, from what i know on tool truck boxes as told from my friend who retailed Mac-there is almost 100% mark up on a box. So if mac can mark it up 100%, im sure so is around there too.
assuming this is true-- a 10k box may cost the dealer 5k. so if the dealer got anywhere near 5k paid on the box--he is ok. ****, for all we know the guy could have paid 6k off and lost his job/was repo'd. at that point box is really "paid" for and turned a 1k profit along w/ the resale at 4k and your box trade in. hell, dealer makes more money in this instance on repo over a straight sale.
way i was told is the gravy money for the tool man is the resale of the trade in box--as that is often times cash equity on his truck. it is easier to sale a 2k box than a 4k+ box. plus, they have so much margin to play with/discount that they can afford to give you a good trade in on a new box for your old worn out box. my $100 taco wagon spray painted black that i gave to my friend when i was done with it got him 2k in trade on a new box.
csargents1546
Well-known member
I am also opting for a no. I was thinking of getting a new box, looked at the price and said, would I like to have a shinny new box for x dollars or have x dollars in tools. I opted for the tools. The box is just a storage place for your tools.
Much agreed, but will add there are a few other things worth going in debt for. Such as things that appreciate, or pay you back. Like an education. And a primary residence. Or a business investment that will return more than the loan value.
Things that you should think twice about going in debt for are consumables and things that depreciate. Like big weddings. And bar tabs. Vacations. Stereos. Cars. And shiny tool boxes. I'm sure there's a million other things that are poor choices. It's not that you shouldn't have them if you want them. I would suggest just saving up for them and paying cash. It's a safe bet, and will not be a burden if your financial situation changes for the worse.
You'll find that you will be much farther ahead if you live this way by the time you are in your 40s. Being debt free is a true luxury.
Adam McLaughlin
Well-known member
Do you have any friends whom paint? Get someone with an Iwata to spray it any color you like....
Adam
Adam
ajchien
Well-known member
No. 
How about some day looking forward and saying you wish you didn't have that extra $4k in debt?
Yep.
Why let others determine what something is worth to you? Mall stores sell jewelry all the time that is marked 60 or 80% off. Do you have a hard time passing those deals up too? There's an old Oscar Wilde saying about people knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Good tip. Don't forget to back out taxes and include interest.
I get about the same, assuming 19%. Hope they charge much less than that!
Good move.
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Good choice on holding off. I know 4k for a 10k box sounds like a great deal, but I see lots of nice boxes at 40% or less on CL or auctions, in your area. Save up 2-3k if you want to upgrade, and then start looking around patiently. There are lots of deals out there, this one is not one that can't be passed up.
Go to the bank, set up a new savings account, and have $60 dropped in it direct deposit every week from your check. One year from today you'll have over $3100, and can start looking for your box. Beats the hell out of paying SO forever, and if you end up needing the money (lay off?) its there. Finally, you'll have your macsimizer to sell when its all done, and you can use that (and your weekly 60) to get some savings together.
Go to the bank, set up a new savings account, and have $60 dropped in it direct deposit every week from your check. One year from today you'll have over $3100, and can start looking for your box. Beats the hell out of paying SO forever, and if you end up needing the money (lay off?) its there. Finally, you'll have your macsimizer to sell when its all done, and you can use that (and your weekly 60) to get some savings together.
Az Scooter
Well-known member
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- Dec 30, 2009
- Messages
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I will make it easy, I will buy you a couple of cans of Rustoleum, and send them to you, free. Just tell me the color.
If it is not going to make you more money with this so called investment, it is not worth having.
If it is not going to make you more money with this so called investment, it is not worth having.
Wrenches of Death
Well-known member
Initial reactions are often the best reaction. Taking on any debt during the Great Depression 2.0 probably isn't the best idea.
The US economy is in shambles and will continue to get worse for a long long time. This could easily turn into a multigenerational depression. Any polititial hyped "job creation" is a total farce without domestic manufacturing.
Save your money. You'll proably need it a lot sooner than you think. For food...
WoD
Wrenches of Death
Well-known member
Wrenches of Death
Well-known member
Agreed. And, if his employer shuts down this year or next causing him to miss a couple of payments, he's lost the new box, his old box, and a mess of cash.
If anyone thinks that the economy has hit anywhere near bottom, they are in for a real surprise.
WoD
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GrantCee
Well-known member
You know, I was just thinking...given the number of mechanics who get into the business because they love cars, who probably know some good body & fender guys, I'm surprised that there aren't more tool boxes sporting custom paint jobs. You know, pinstripes, flames, that sort of thing.
84bimmer
Well-known member
Shoot! Thinka all tha muddin tyres ya culd by with awll those munies!
Iffin you don't feel like a man, cuz you gots a gurly colrd box. Heers all uu gots ta du.
Go home pound sum bers. pound the ol lady. then go out back an pound sum nails into yer new projekt, a burdhose. Or whut evers maks u feel manly.
Oya i says by the box. an makks shur u buy yersilf sum truk nutz frum theez doods...
http://www.truck-nuts.com/
U git sumotheez an nebuddees wans ta giv u **** bout yur gurly box, you jus sho em thes here an they wil no yer a man fur reel.
Iffin you don't feel like a man, cuz you gots a gurly colrd box. Heers all uu gots ta du.
Go home pound sum bers. pound the ol lady. then go out back an pound sum nails into yer new projekt, a burdhose. Or whut evers maks u feel manly.
Oya i says by the box. an makks shur u buy yersilf sum truk nutz frum theez doods...
http://www.truck-nuts.com/
U git sumotheez an nebuddees wans ta giv u **** bout yur gurly box, you jus sho em thes here an they wil no yer a man fur reel.
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briggsguy17
Well-known member
I agree with this. Assess what the street value of the box is if you needed it liquidate it and that is your real premium. Do you know what the street value is? You also have to think about your own situation. Do you have other responsibilities like a wife who is a stay at home mom, kids in school, a big mortgage, etc.? How secure is your job? Could you find work if you lost this job? Also, think about your self-esteem and self-satisfaction of owning something that many consider the best money can buy. There is intrinsic value to that.
This decision is no different from deciding to buy a new rig or repair your old one.
This decision is no different from deciding to buy a new rig or repair your old one.
First of all, it's not really $4 k....it's costing you more like $6k, as I assume you could probably get somewhere close to $2 for your MAC. There are plenty of used Snap-on triple banks out there, and those that actually sell usually go for under $4k...some under $3k. But there are very few Epiqs around in the used market so far. So do you really prefer the design of the Epiq? If so, you are really only paying only about $2-2.5k over the price of selling your box and finding a used triple. And you would need about $4k on cash on hand to do that, plus some significant hassle. While it's always better to save up and pay cash, this is not a bad deal for what you're getting, assuming you like the Epiq.
Have you actually seen an Epiq up close and personal? I do like the drawer latches, but they are VERY tall. I'm 6'2", and the top is way too high to be a usable work surface. If i wanted a box with a usable work surface, I'd skip the Epic and get a KRL. But there is no nicer quality box made than an Epic if you like the format.
I have a friend who just did a similar deal to get an Epiq. He actually wanted to be in debt to his Snap-on guy. The reason....he's a small shop with only one tech working for him, and had paid off all his previous purchases. His Snap-on guy shows up more reliably when there's money to collect. He feels the weekly visit from a tool truck is essential to his business, so this was one way to assure it. Silly to me, but he considers it necessary. He knows a shop like his would be dropped from the route if he wasn't buying or paying debt every week.
Have you actually seen an Epiq up close and personal? I do like the drawer latches, but they are VERY tall. I'm 6'2", and the top is way too high to be a usable work surface. If i wanted a box with a usable work surface, I'd skip the Epic and get a KRL. But there is no nicer quality box made than an Epic if you like the format.
I have a friend who just did a similar deal to get an Epiq. He actually wanted to be in debt to his Snap-on guy. The reason....he's a small shop with only one tech working for him, and had paid off all his previous purchases. His Snap-on guy shows up more reliably when there's money to collect. He feels the weekly visit from a tool truck is essential to his business, so this was one way to assure it. Silly to me, but he considers it necessary. He knows a shop like his would be dropped from the route if he wasn't buying or paying debt every week.
mrholeshot
MEMBER EMERITUS
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I made myself into a Victim over great tool box deals in the past. Always having the latest Greatest, Newest, biggest box that came my way. It becomes a habit and the sooner you learn to avoid those super deals the better off you will be. While it may be a 10K tool box on paper you see how fast it went down in value with just a few light scratches. If you need a new larger toolbox (I bought a Mica Green Tool Wagon so I understand wanting out of the color) in red I would suggest looking for a used larger macsimizer or look into a Used Snap-On 1003 in red. 3000 dollars or less can get you into either box easily (2000-2500 if you keep an eye out closely) and then borrow the money from your bank to buy it. Clean up the green Macsimizer and sell it or trade it in to clear any outstanding tool truck balance or new tools to make you job easier and more productive and leave yourself with just one monthly payment.
Most people here are not auto techs so they don't understand that you have to look at that box 500 times a day. If you want a bigger and differant color box I say go for it. I would just advise you not to go the Epiq route where you only get a few more inches of tool box. You could gain more room but a cart for a few hundred dollars. Don't worry about missing the deal. The deals will keep coming. Look on Ebay There are dealers discounting Epiq boxes by over 5,000 dollars and they are not selling.
It all comes down to what kind of financial situation you are in and how bad you want something. Life is short so do what makes you happy. If you do decide to buy it I would find better financing than Snap-On credit.
Most people here are not auto techs so they don't understand that you have to look at that box 500 times a day. If you want a bigger and differant color box I say go for it. I would just advise you not to go the Epiq route where you only get a few more inches of tool box. You could gain more room but a cart for a few hundred dollars. Don't worry about missing the deal. The deals will keep coming. Look on Ebay There are dealers discounting Epiq boxes by over 5,000 dollars and they are not selling.
It all comes down to what kind of financial situation you are in and how bad you want something. Life is short so do what makes you happy. If you do decide to buy it I would find better financing than Snap-On credit.
Coolabah
Well-known member
+1 .
Good post- I've been in business for many years but sure don't consider myself qualified to give anyone financial advice... BUT....so if we were having a beer somewhere this is probably what I would end up confiding with the OP whilst we were doing our best not to look like we were checking out the barmaid's boobies (err.. assets in financial speak) .............would it be wrong of me to paraphrase your post and say this ? :
take credit out on assets that will appreciate: eg yourself (education, training), Real estate (usually, especially longer term) , LUXURY cars often at least retain their value if bought second hand, second hand desirable items eg SNAP ON TOOLBOXES often at least can be sold for what you paid CASH (CASH, not CREDIT !!! OP : Note the difference !!! Credit eats away any price advantage)
Yes, don't go into debt for bar tabs, broads and holidays. Especially not for those holidays where you take a broad and drink a lot too. Hope you can benefit from my past mistakes .....
Coolabah
Well-known member
flyingvette
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Slide me 3k$ and I'll take some spray paint to it. Your choice on the color.
Or you can put a very strong colored floodlight right above the box.
Maybe even a disco ball!
For 4k$ you could find a cheap ****** to dance on top of the d&#* thing once a week for the rest of the year.
Or you can put a very strong colored floodlight right above the box.
Maybe even a disco ball!
For 4k$ you could find a cheap ****** to dance on top of the d&#* thing once a week for the rest of the year.
Busted_Knuckles
Well-known member
Id say no, I'm 43, and still have the craftsman box I bought new in 1985 ($800). Ive got 3 smaller Waterloo/craftsman boxes, and a service cart, all that I picked up for next to nothing. Then balance of my tools (ones that come in blow molded boxes) are stored on shelving and pallet rack.
I have had an account in the past with snap-on for about 10 years, but never racked up more than $500 at one time buying hand tools, and as a rule, less than a mortgage, I have had no debt since 1994, Ive paid cash for everything, including vehicles, I practice what I preach. Its also allot easier to pay bills, when you have none.
In lieu of a nice big shiny name brand box, what I do have is more hand and specialty tools than any tech I have ever known. I know there are guys out there that can make me look like a school boy, I just have not met them, although I have seen some of them on this forum.
I have had an account in the past with snap-on for about 10 years, but never racked up more than $500 at one time buying hand tools, and as a rule, less than a mortgage, I have had no debt since 1994, Ive paid cash for everything, including vehicles, I practice what I preach. Its also allot easier to pay bills, when you have none.
In lieu of a nice big shiny name brand box, what I do have is more hand and specialty tools than any tech I have ever known. I know there are guys out there that can make me look like a school boy, I just have not met them, although I have seen some of them on this forum.
Good man..! It is nice to want better, it is nicer to know you already have it covered.
mtkst19
Well-known member
this is a good question. when i bougth my box, it was 2500 on the truck used. I was 1st stop in the morning the day after he loded it on the truck.1500 cash took it off the truck that day. if a dealer dont have to run around and chase-- they will cut some money off.
In my instance, i told my guy outright i have 1500 cash i will buy it this minute-- tax included for that amount. i was not willing to spend more and sure as hell it worked.
dont be afraid to haggle with cash. way teh economy is rigth now, cash is king. Keep some money with you and you will get great deals.
NY Old Guy
Well-known member
Generally buying a depreciating asset with debt at a high interest rate is not good. Most people who are well off got that way by being frugal. If you can afford to pay cash, and the price is right and you can unload your existing box at a good price consider it, otherwise be disciplined and save your pennies, Then maybe one day you can add some shares of Snap On stock to your retirement portfolio instead. Sorry don't mean to rain on your parade, go ahead and buy it if you want it but only if you can pay cash.
bestatv
Well-known member
The epiq probably has a better electrical system than the MG does.
Just kidding.Only slightly.
Just kidding.Only slightly.
Deafautotech
Well-known member
yeah that why i has to keeping saving and saving as only buy what I NEED... NOT WANT...
84bimmer
Well-known member
You know that's right.sberry
Banned
I borrow money all the time but I look at the return. Got a credit line. Bought a hoist a while back, low interest and incentives, taxes made it a no brainer. I save enough on tire rotation and minor brake work alone for it to earn its keep. Only way I could have done better is to buy used or a cheaper unit but I had some legit reasoning for going extra. It was costing me not having it.
GarageEnvy
Well-known member
In my opinion posts 9, 15, 16 and 105 (including Aberdale's post quote) have all the elements needed to make this decision correctly. I wouldn't say never finance a depreciating asset, I'd say almost never. The return would have to be much higher than the depreciation rate. That's not the case here. Also, there's a couple of other factors in the decision. Payback period is not an accurate methodology for evaluating the return as it fails to account for the time value of money. Not to complicate your decision but to do this correctly you should consider the Net Present Value of this investment by discounting at either the expected rate of return (what you could have done with the money that was equally risky and potentially making money over the financed period) or the cost of capital (your interest rate). What the latter posts are referring to is your reversion (how much you'll get back when you sell it). IF there is expected appreciation then it helps the overall return rate. I highly doubt this box will appreciate over time and probably will depreciate. So if your net present value of the investment with reversion (if you plan on selling it at some point) is positive, you have positive leverage (favorable to finance it). I don't see how with these terms and this item you could get positive leverage by financing this box. In other words, don't get it.
Geez, I'm a geek
Geez, I'm a geek