I'm looking at a Bridgeport This Weekend

[brianpgriset]

So I am not activily searching for a milling machine at this time, but I have always told myself, if the right deal came along on a good quality machine. Well an add came up locally for a J-Head Bridgeport that appears to be in very good shape. Some quick details with a quick conversion w/ the owner:

- 1963 (serial 68085) Bridgeport J-Head; R8 Spindle Taper
- Owner says 9x42 table... but it looks smaller in pictures, will measure and confirm
- y-axis power feed (speed won't chage)
- Mitsubishi static phase converter, unsure of model
- Acurite DRO (one axis not functioning)

Also included:
- Bridgeport vise
- collet "set"
- collet rack
- parallel set
- some random tooling, endmills, dovetail cutters, ... not much to get excited about

I'm going to take a look at it Saturday. I plan to do the following, but want any other input I can get.

- Visual check ways and bearing surfaces
- check backlash on each end of table and in middle on x and y axis, looking to get less than .030"ish and no major spread between 3 sets of readings
-check for feed smoothness in axis and quill
- free wheel motor and spindle and listen for bearing noise or roughness
- check for hi/low speed gear engagement
- spindle brake function
- quill runout


Only tools I plan to take are a straight edge, mag base, and dial indicator.

Machine is NOT under power at this time, but I already told owner I would not buy machine until I see it under power. At that time I will perform a few simple cutting operations and check power feeds and motor operation.

Over machine is very clean looking from pictures.

 

[A_Pmech]

Sounds like you've done your homework.

Total backlash figures aren't all that important, backlash due to nut wear can be fixed, but the spread between center and extreme ends is telling. That will tell you what the wear is on the flanks of the lead screw.

Be sure to run the machine under power as you intend. Spindle bearing problems will be most evident at top speed. Run the back gear and listen for popped teeth.

Test the quill feed for correct operation. They're rather fragile on the Series I machines.

The machine pictured has a 36" table.

Good luck with your inspection trip, the machine looks well cared for from here. Ask the owner what he did to it.

 

[Bull]

You guys that know how to use those things are the real deal. I'm intimidated just by their size and how to get one home, nevermind learning how to use it!

 

[TheGrooveking]

Check your backlash at either end of the travel and in the center, if it pretty even you can always remove the brass nut threaded bushing cut it in half and then reinstall and by using the retaining screw compress the two halves of the nut together to take up most of the play. Now if there is more wear in the middle (typical) you'll have to split the difference. Also check for side play on the table slides, sometimes that'll show you if the gibs are needing replacement and the table ways need grinding & scraping. I upgraded my Bridgeport with Rockford ballscrews back in 1996 and am happy I did it.

TheGrooveking

 

[larry_g]

You guys that know how to use those things are the real deal. I'm intimidated just by their size and how to get one home, nevermind learning how to use it!

They aren't near as intimidating as a a group of school kids in a classroom. At least with a machine you have control of it and you get to whack it with a hammer once in a while just to straighten it up.

To the OP
If the machine runs and the price is right don't look to close. Any machine is better than none. You will have something to use and learn on while working on finding that pristine machine you long for. Once you have a machine tool you will find that odd people will say" dad used to have one of those in the basement, its still there, ya want it?" Had it happen to me once. Cleaned out one guys shop for basically the price the family was asking, kept most of the tooling and sold the machines for what I paid for the shop.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[brianpgriset]

Excellent, thanks for the help. I thought that table looked small to be 42". Makes me hesitant to buy if I were to offer since I really wanted a 42".

How hard is it to retrofit different tables? Is it even possible? Typical cost? I could try trading someone on Practical Machinist. In the end though, probably the best thing to do is to just hold on to my money and get exaclty what I want, unless it's not to hard to swap a table.

As for price, the seller is selling this and a South Bend lathe as a package deal, but he said he would split them up. He was asking $5000 for everything. I was thinking I wouldn't pay over $2300, that including the phase converter, collets, vise, parallels, and the few peices of tooling. Does that seem reasonable or am I too high?

 

[stonewellmark]

The mill is the cheap part.....just wait until you start buying all the tooling Looks like a nice unit but stick to your inspection process and I'm sure you'll walk away happy.

 

[Zebu Fellenz]

Looking quick that looks to be a belt jumper (non-variable speed head). Nice in that there are less parts to need to be maintained and it will generally be a quieter machine. Less convenient if you need to change speeds often unless you run on a VFD. Generally speaking though the belt jumpers are cheaper machines to buy.

The 36" table is small and can be a bother if you plan on working on larger pieces or machining long slots or doing other operations where you want lots of uninterrupted travel. We have a 42" table and I often wish it were a 48".

What is the power-feed? It doesn't look like a bridgeport original. If it's a Servo brand that's worth a few buck (they're about $600 new) If it's Enco branded or some other China feed it's still handy to have if it works but it doesn't really add much value.

I think $2300 is a little high for what's in the picture. But it all comes down to what else is available in your area and condition, condition, condition! For over 2k I would want a fully functional DRO, or a Kurt vise, or a good bit of tooling.

 

[brianpgriset]

I dont anticipate ever doing much work on larger stock, but having the flexibility is nice. The power feed is an Asong AS-235.

I actually prefer the belt drive as, like you mention, is generally more reliable. I delt with belt drives for awhile and got used to it, so no big deal.

The one thing I will say is there are not many machine tools around this part. When I lived in Ohio the supply was far greater. I'll have to do a bit more price research for local stuff.

Oh and any idea if I can swap tables or is that just not possible?

 

[trbomax]

It would have to be REALLY nice and cheap for me to buy a 3ph machine. I have one of each,and the pc unit never gets used. If you are not really in the market, consider that the digital is not right,most likely a tube, and they are not cheap,add to that the 3 ph deal and the constant speed power feed. Even if its pristene its only worth a grand or less.

edit) pull a couple of the wipers off the ways and see how much **** is behind them. If they are all loaded up with junk,and the machine is really clean,its been cleaned up for appearence rather than been highly maintained.Junk behind these wipers is a prime cause of wear.

 

[A_Pmech]

Oh and any idea if I can swap tables or is that just not possible?

It will not be a case of removing one table and installing the other. There will be scraping and hand fitting of the saddle and table ways involved. That's assuming you could find a table, which is possible but they're not cheap.

$2,200 is about average benchmark for a 42" machine at retail, or was. +- a few hundred on this machine wouldn't worry me too much if the machine was in good shape and fit your requirements. You'll make that back in the first couple of jobs. The machine appears clean in the photo, ask why.

Have a look at the DRO. The failure of one axis could be as simple as needing a new encoder illuminator. This would be obvious by resetting the axis to zero and moving the affected axis with no response from the DRO. If it provides no error message check the wiring. If the wiring is OK, check the illuminator.

If it displays an E2 (counting) error when the faulty axis is moved, it suggests that the scale could be dirty or scratched or there's an intermittent wiring problem.

Error E5 I've never encountered, but I believe indicates the backup battery has failed. That would cause a loss of parameters for both axes.

 

[Sancho]

For what its worth, my father bought one a few months back for ~$1400

Series 1 Bridgeport, 42x9, ballscrews, dro, power feed on 3 axis, 14" Yuasa rotary table, and a bit of tooling but not a ton. It was as close to new as a 20yr old machine can look, its super nice. Granted it is 3 phase...

Pricing is really dependent on the area market.

 

[AlchemyMetalworks]

Ugh...even though I'm a machinist and I appreciate that someone is willing to learn the skill necessary to use a mill/lathe/surface grinder/etc...why does everyone love the Bridgeport?!

It's a glorified drill-press with a floppy, unbalanced head (2 joints at the head, another on the turret, yet another on the turret ring) a ponderous knee and a largely unsupported table. It's fine for light milling and poking holes in metal, that's about it.

Sorry OP, didn't mean to rain on your parade. Any machine is better than no machine, but there are so many better machines that you can find that will fit in the same footprint.

It's like Kleenex, Q-tips & Coke...everyone loves the brand name, even if the best product isn't necessarily the one produced by that brand.

 

[sickboi55]

Ugh...even though I'm a machinist and I appreciate that someone is willing to learn the skill necessary to use a mill/lathe/surface grinder/etc...why does everyone love the Bridgeport?!

It's a glorified drill-press with a floppy, unbalanced head (2 joints at the head, another on the turret, yet another on the turret ring) a ponderous knee and a largely unsupported table. It's fine for light milling and poking holes in metal, that's about it.

Sorry OP, didn't mean to rain on your parade. Any machine is better than no machine, but there are so many better machines that you can find that will fit in the same footprint.

It's like Kleenex, Q-tips & Coke...everyone loves the brand name, even if the best product isn't necessarily the one produced by that brand.

what would you say is better? i know nothing about mills, just i have heard the bridgeport name ALOT.

 

[AlchemyMetalworks]

what would you say is better? i know nothing about mills, just i have heard the bridgeport name ALOT.

Cincinnati, Deckel, Maho, Lagun...

 

[Zebu Fellenz]

Ugh...even though I'm a machinist and I appreciate that someone is willing to learn the skill necessary to use a mill/lathe/surface grinder/etc...why does everyone love the Bridgeport?!

It's like Kleenex, Q-tips & Coke...everyone loves the brand name, even if the best product isn't necessarily the one produced by that brand.

The Bridgeport is a very easy to use machine, very easy to learn all the functions and their is a huge support community to get a novice up and running quickly. I think this is a major contributor to the popularity of the machine.

I doubt the OP will find a nice clean Deckel for an amount comparable to a clean Bridgeport, I'll say the same about a Maho. A Lagun knee mill will probably be comparable in price but it's basically a glorified Bridgeport and depending on condition may be better or worse than the machine in question.

What Cincinnati mills are you referring to? I have worked with an older Cincinnati vertical mill and while the rigidity and capacity put a Bridgeport to shame it didn't feel like as versatile a machine as a Bridgeport.

Tree is another mill to keep an eye out for, similar to a Bridgeport in design and use but build a little heavier and generally a little cheaper on the used market.

 

[AlchemyMetalworks]

The Bridgeport is a very easy to use machine, very easy to learn all the functions and their is a huge support community to get a novice up and running quickly. I think this is a major contributor to the popularity of the machine.

I doubt the OP will find a nice clean Deckel for an amount comparable to a clean Bridgeport, I'll say the same about a Maho. A Lagun knee mill will probably be comparable in price but it's basically a glorified Bridgeport and depending on condition may be better or worse than the machine in question.

What Cincinnati mills are you referring to? I have worked with an older Cincinnati vertical mill and while the rigidity and capacity put a Bridgeport to shame it didn't feel like as versatile a machine as a Bridgeport.

Tree is another mill to keep an eye out for, similar to a Bridgeport in design and use but build a little heavier and generally a little cheaper on the used market.

A mill is a mill is a mill. They all have motors for turning the spindle and crank handles for moving the axes. None are particularly difficult to operate. Yes the Deckel/Maho have an "odd" operating stance vs. Bridgeport (off to the side, rather than standing in front of the table) but that is actually a safety feature.

A clean Deckel? Prolly not...but then again, that Bridgey didn't look particularly sano

There are different Laguns, I prefer the dual-spindle models with the rotatable vertical head, but that's me. Big box ways, a turret that slides in and out and rotates for those odd angles to cut, and holes on an incline to drill, a horizontal spindle for facing an edge or cutting a slot...and double to triple the mass in the same footprint. What a machine!

I can't remember the model number, but the Cinci I'm thinking of is a short, squat beast about chest high and has an overarm for the horizontal spindle that mounts to the vertical head. CHEAP and uses REAL tooling like BT40/Cat40, instead of the wimpy R8.

Tree, Shizouka, Boyar-Schulze...there are tons of mills that are just as versatile and far more rigid than the proverbial Bridgey.

But that's just me...some people are happy with Jet and Grizzly machinery...to each their own.

My personal toy is a Tormach PCNC 1100 with all the bells & whistles...a brand-new out of the box CNC mill with the same footprint as a Bridgeport without any of the headaches of a conversion machine.

 

[mister honey]

The Cincinnati "bridgeport" is called the Toolmaster and the 1D model is the most desirable: variable speed head/spindle, power feed to the quill, etc.

Mike

 

[brianpgriset]

Ugh...even though I'm a machinist and I appreciate that someone is willing to learn the skill necessary to use a mill/lathe/surface grinder/etc...why does everyone love the Bridgeport?!

It's a glorified drill-press with a floppy, unbalanced head (2 joints at the head, another on the turret, yet another on the turret ring) a ponderous knee and a largely unsupported table. It's fine for light milling and poking holes in metal, that's about it.

Sorry OP, didn't mean to rain on your parade. Any machine is better than no machine, but there are so many better machines that you can find that will fit in the same footprint.

It's like Kleenex, Q-tips & Coke...everyone loves the brand name, even if the best product isn't necessarily the one produced by that brand.

Your not raining on my parade. I have used and like Bridgeport machines. I am comfortable using them, and have a fair amount of time on this type of machine. The are common, parts are readily availble, and there is a huge following online. It makes total sense to me why I want one.

 

[brianpgriset]

The machine appears clean in the photo, ask why.

The owner was getting into gunsmithing. He bought the lathe, and before he could set it up, he had a divorce. It's sat for the last 2 years with no use and he now needs the money and gave up on the hobby. At least thats what he told me.

 

[Steve from Socal]

The 2300.00 price seems steep from my vantage point, a machine that old is going to have some issues and with a short table it is far less desirable to many buyers. A Bridgeport or good clone should be easy to find within a few hundred miles of your location ranging in price from 1500-3000.00 depending on features and tooling. Wells Index is another good turret mill and Excello or XLO are great machines about 1 and 1/4 the size of a J-head.

Keep looking that machine really seems to be overpriced IMHO

Steve

 

[larry_g]

The owner was getting into gunsmithing. He bought the lathe, and before he could set it up, he had a divorce. It's sat for the last 2 years with no use and he now needs the money and gave up on the hobby. At least thats what he told me.

I would go and see the units and decide what I would pay for them. You may find a very nice lathe and so-so mill. Decide what you would pay for the lot and leave a number with your offer. Don't be offensive or denergate the machinery just a this is what I can pay. I've come out a few times with that stradegy. Sell the lathe for a good price and you've got a inexpensive mill. Use it while you keep looking.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[bobadame]

Swap the cables coming from the scale readers to the DRO. This will tell you something.