Fridge tripping GFCI - what can I do?

[MichiganMan]

Howdy! Found this place through the magic of Google, and I'm hoping you folks might be able to help me out.

My immediate issue is this: my neighbors redid their kitchen, orphaning their 10 year old GE fridge. Out of the kindness of my heart (and the warmness of my beer), I offered to take in this wayward soul. I moved her into the garage, plugged her in, and all was spiffy for several days.

Today, I walked out to find the GFCI circuit had tripped. There is nothing else plugged in on any of the garage outlets. I unplugged the fridge and was able to reset the GFCI. As soon as I plug in the fridge, it pops the GFCI plug (the fridge outlet is downstream from the GFCI itself), even if the fridge is not turned on. In other words, it is the act of plugging it in, not the compressor starting.

I have previously had a fridge on this same outlet for years with nary a problem (this fridge left recently, along with my ex-wife). The new-to-me fridge was fat dumb and happy in the neighbors kitchen for 10 years.

So, what are my options? Can I replace the GFCI outlet with a regular one? Run a new circuit just for the garage fridge (seems like an awful lot of work to do that). Drink warm beer?

Many thanks!

 

[Tscott]

I would try changing out the GFCI before I did anything else. It may have gone bad and just been fluke that it happened at the same as the new fridge arrived. If that fails, then I would think the fridge is shorting to ground in some way and causing the GFCI to trip in which case the fridge either needs to be trashed or fixed.

Tom

 

[MichiganMan]

That was my first thought, I'll try swapping out the plug this weekend. Eventually I want to build out one bay in my 3 car garage as a workshop, when that happens I'm going to run additional electrical out there, but that is down the road...

 

[lametec]

If you have a multi-meter, put it on ohm, 30k (or next higher, like 200k) scale.

Measure resistance at the plug (unplugged). Measure from one flat prong to the round ground peg, then from the other flat prong to ground.

Neither one should show anything less than 30k ohm. If you read less than 30k ohm resistance on either prong, the fridge is causing the issue.

 

[MichiganMan]

lametec, just to be clear this is on the plug on the fridge? I assume it is unplugged during this operation? (I do have a multi-meter but electrical is outside my expertise!)

 

[mrb]

yes, fridge unplugged and measure the male plug on the fridge.

 

[mrb]

yes, fridge unplugged and measure the male plug on the fridge.

this is not definitive though, but a starting place. there could be cooked motor insulation that isnt tripping the gfci until the motor comes on or wherever the fault is isnt breaking down without higher voltage.

use the test / reset button on the gfci. if that works then the gfci is good. its most likely the fridge. try another appliance (that you know is healthy and wont trip a gfci) on the outlet before replacing it.

dont eliminate the gfci, its doing its job. (and remember, there is no such thing as nuisance tripping of a gfci)

 

[jonahbones]

Nothing unusual , normal practice down this way has been to have a dedicated non GFCI circuit for fridges. Problem will be the compressor having a high starting current, a little surge above the rating of the circuit.
Changing thermostat on the fridge to an electronic one with a compressor soft start circuit may be one answer.
An electrical insulation fault in the fridge would trip the GFCI immediately.

 

[strnjss]

Like jonahbones said, I've always heard that anything with a high draw motor or compressor like a refrigerator, dishwasher, etc will trip GFCI's

 

[Gary S]

Like jonahbones said, I've always heard that anything with a high draw motor or compressor like a refrigerator, dishwasher, etc will trip GFCI's

I run my garage refrigerator, my 1.5hp 120v compressor, and my 11k BTU AC init in my garage all on GFCI receptacles with no issues. When things are right, it should work for you too.

 

[Banana #2505]

A refrigerator should not be on a GFCI. It should be on it's own dedicated circuit. That's code here in VA.

 

[Aceman]

A refrigerator should not be on a GFCI. It should be on it's own dedicated circuit. That's code here in VA.

Posts like these.......

Most of the US follows the NEC. Just because VA may have an amendment or be lagging behind on the code cycles doesn't mean everyone else can get away with not having GFCI protection.

If a fridge or whatever trips a GFCI and you change the GFCI and it still trips, it's most likely time to fix or replace whatever you're plugging into it!

 

[Norcal]

If a GFCI receptacle is tripping, it most likely the equipment on the circuit, not the GFCI, a fridge or freezer should do just fine on a GFCI protected circuit, BTW as time goes on the exceptions allowing non-GFCI receptacles are slowly going away, so get used to them.....

 

[carcruse]

When my garage refrigertor did that, it turned out to be the heater for the automatic defroster was bad. It was an old frig and the heater broke in the middle

 

[Charles (in GA)]

When my garage refrigertor did that, it turned out to be the heater for the automatic defroster was bad. It was an old frig and the heater broke in the middle

You can prove out or eliminate this as a problem by locating the defrost timer and turning it manually thru the defrost cycle and back to normal. Then if the fridge does not trip the GFCI its the heat element or over temp thermostat. The elements have glass or ceramics in them and indeed can crack or break. I had the over temp thermostat for the defrost heat element short internally and burn up on one fridge, this too will cause a GFCI trip.

Charles

 

[ToddyB]

Up to 2008, NEC allowed a fridge in a garage to be non-gfci protected if plugged into a single (cannot plug anything else into) receptacle. Many localities lag by a couple code cycles or do not adopt the whole code. Check with the AHJ.

 

[cowboyjosh]

Up to 2008, NEC allowed a fridge in a garage to be non-gfci protected if plugged into a single (cannot plug anything else into) receptacle. Many localities lag by a couple code cycles or do not adopt the whole code. Check with the AHJ.

The AHJ where i live required freezer / fridges in garages to be GFCI'd for almost a decade now, however just recently they finally adopted that the GDO be GFCI'd.

Sometimes refrigerators dont like to be moved, something likely broke, came loose, in the transport, i like the idea that the defroster heater is the culprit. Just for good measure, id still replace the GFCI if its a older GFI, some of the old ones were a little touchy.

 

[oldtractors]

I would never plug a fridge into a GFCI outlet in the garage, unless it only held beer I didn't care about. They nuisance trip too much and finding out your fridge with a load of meat in it quit working a week before because of a nuisance trip would not be fun.

 

[ddawg16]

I believe the NEC code says that a refrigerator does NOT have to be on a GFCI.

I also 'understand' the prefered practice to be that a fridge is on it's own cricuit so that something else does not trip the breaker and cause all the food in the fridge to go bad.

So in summary....nothing stops you from putting a fridge on a GFCI....but the NEC does not require it either.

Personally....I would prefer to have my fridge on it's own non GFCI circuit.

 

[Norcal]

I believe the NEC code says that a refrigerator does NOT have to be on a GFCI.

I also 'understand' the prefered practice to be that a fridge is on it's own cricuit so that something else does not trip the breaker and cause all the food in the fridge to go bad.

So in summary....nothing stops you from putting a fridge on a GFCI....but the NEC does not require it either.

Personally....I would prefer to have my fridge on it's own non GFCI circuit.

That depends where the fridge is, in a commercial kitchen there are NO exceptions to the requirements that all 120V 15 & 20A cord & plug connected circuits be GFCI protected. In posting NEC art. below there are few exceptions to GFCI requirements....

Here is a copy & paste from the 2008 NEC (CA adopted it Jan 1st 2011).

210.8 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for
Personnel.
FPN: See 215.9 for ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection
for personnel on feeders.
(A) Dwelling Units. All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and
20-ampere receptacles installed in the locations specified in
(1) through (8) shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter
protection for personnel.
(1) Bathrooms
(2) Garages, and also accessory buildings that have a floor
located at or below grade level not intended as habitable
rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas,
and areas of similar use
(3) Outdoors
Exception to (3): Receptacles that are not readily accessible
and are supplied by a dedicated branch circuit for
electric snow-melting or deicing equipment shall be permittedto be installed in accordance with 426.28.
(4) Crawl spaces — at or below grade level
(5) Unfinished basements — for purposes of this section,
unfinished basements are defined as portions or areas of
the basement not intended as habitable rooms and limited
to storage areas, work areas, and the like
Exception to (5): A receptacle supplying only a permanently
installed fire alarm or burglar alarm system shall
not be required to have ground-fault circuit-interrupter
protection.
FPN: See 760.41(B) and 760.121(B) for power supply
requirements for fire alarm systems.
Receptacles installed under the exception to
210.8(A)(5) shall not be considered as meeting the
requirements of 210.52(G).
(6) Kitchens — where the receptacles are installed to serve
the countertop surfaces
(7) Laundry, utility, and wet bar sinks — where the receptacles
are installed within 1.8 m (6 ft) of the outside
edge of the sink
(8) Boathouses

(B) Other Than Dwelling Units. All 125-volt, singlephase,
15- and 20-ampere receptacles installed in the locations
specified in (1) through (5) shall have ground-fault
circuit-interrupter protection for personnel:
(1) Bathrooms
(2) Kitchens
(3) Rooftops
(4) Outdoors

 

[Aceman]

I believe the NEC code says that a refrigerator does NOT have to be on a GFCI.
I also 'understand' the prefered practice to be that a fridge is on it's own cricuit so that something else does not trip the breaker and cause all the food in the fridge to go bad.

So in summary....nothing stops you from putting a fridge on a GFCI....but the NEC does not require it either.Personally....I would prefer to have my fridge on it's own non GFCI circuit.

First, you think the NEC doesn't require it. Then you go on to say the NEC definitely doesn't require it.

If you're not sure about something, don't give advice to others about how to do it!! Or what's required!

Who are you really helping? At least check the code book first....

 

[ddawg16]

(6) Kitchens — where the receptacles are installed to serve the countertop surfaces

Hence.....since a fridge is typically not plugged into a coutertop receptacle....it is exempt.

Thanks Norcal for the accurate and factual response......vs others who just prefer to insult and not provide any factual information....

 

[Norcal]

Hence.....since a fridge is typically not plugged into a coutertop receptacle....it is exempt.

Thanks Norcal for the accurate and factual response......vs others who just prefer to insult and not provide any factual information....

But a fridge and/or freezer in a basement, garage, outbuilding will require GFCI protection as I see no exemption for it, there is no reason why they should not have GFCI protection.......

 

[cowboyjosh]

newer GFCI's unless they or the outlets downstream are wired ****** by a half *** sparky electrician very rarely "nuisance trip", especially quality brands like Square D QO (GFCI breakers), or Leviton GFCI outlets. Even GFCI's as new as a decade old are known for being touchy and temper-mental; I'd hear joking that some would trip if it was cloudy outside. I also have heard stories where lightning would trip GFCI outlets in folks houses, when they had them swapped out, the nuisance tripping would quit. A newer safety feature besides the Tamper is that if the outlet is shot, or blown, it will not reset, unlike older plugs that would reset, but they would offer no GFCI protection.

 

[Aceman]

Hence.....since a fridge is typically not plugged into a coutertop receptacle....it is exempt.

Thanks Norcal for the accurate and factual response......vs others who just prefer to insult and not provide any factual information....

What's insulting is posters like you giving other members false information.

I know Norcal, MRB, RockwithJason, Charles, myself and others try and keep the members on here well informed of the codes required. Then random people pop up in these threads, mention a few things THEIR INSPECTOR let them get away with, not necessarily code, then we spend the next few posts(or pages) explaining why it isn't legal to the other members. It only leads to confusion.

All I'm asking is, if you're not sure about something, you shouldn't be giving advice about it. If you're taking that as an insult, then I don't know what to tell you.

You can ask for code references if you want, and I'm sure one of us on here can provide them. Then there's no question about what's required.

 

[mrb]

to those who are saying things with motors, 'high amp' loads, things with a high inrush, etc trip a gfci are 100% WRONG. A GFCI receptacle doesnt even know how much current is going through it. They only trip if more than ~5ma is leaking to ground.

 

[strnjss]

to those who are saying things with motors, 'high amp' loads, things with a high inrush, etc trip a gfci are 100% WRONG. A GFCI receptacle doesnt even know how much current is going through it. They only trip if more than ~5ma is leaking to ground.

I heard that years ago, back when they were first coming into usage. I'm curious now.

I researched it, and found this:

"It may be that the GFCI is too sensitive. It is normal for continuous running motors, such as pumps, to sometimes have small electrical fluctuations. Sensitive GFCI’s may detect this and falsely trip. You may want to have the electrician try a new GFCI or a different brand of GFCI if this problem persists"
http://www.jeffrieselectric.net/blog/tag/gfci-outlet/

So maybe the older ones I heard about were just too sensitive at the time, or some still are?

 

[MrMark]

What's insulting is posters like you giving other members false information.

I know Norcal, MRB, RockwithJason, Charles, myself and others try and keep the members on here well informed of the codes required. Then random people pop up in these threads, mention a few things THEIR INSPECTOR let them get away with, not necessarily code, then we spend the next few posts(or pages) explaining why it isn't legal to the other members. It only leads to confusion.

All I'm asking is, if you're not sure about something, you shouldn't be giving advice about it. If you're taking that as an insult, then I don't know what to tell you.

You can ask for code references if you want, and I'm sure one of us on here can provide them. Then there's no question about what's required.

But it seems the Dawg was correct after all - false information was not supplied. So merely supplying correct information should not be harmful, especially when there have been LOADS of incorrect information supplied, most recently by licensed and "professional" electricians, in the "grounding/bonding" thread. I do, however, feel your pain on the pop ups with the "their inspector" comments. The referenced grounding/bonding thread was one of those "their inspector" being incompetent moments.

I tend to cut the Dawg some slack regarding his use of the word "believed" because he impressed me in his knowledge in the citizen's arrest thread recently.

 

[Aceman]

But it seems the Dawg was correct after all - false information was not supplied. So merely supplying correct information should not be harmful, especially when there have been LOADS of incorrect information, most recently by licensed and "professional" electricians, in the "grounding/bonding" thread.

I tend to cut the Dawg some slack regarding his use of the word "believed" because he impressed me in his knowledge in the citizen's arrest thread recently.

I understand, I've seen a few of those so called electricians post some bad info too. But you've been on here long enough that you(and some of the other long term members) should know which of us electricians know what we're talking about and who you should be a little more careful listening too.

I definitely don't know everything, but I try my best to make sure what I do post is 100% fact and not just my opinion. If I need to back it up with code I can do that too.

It's the guys that can't, that you should be worried about...

 

[MrMark]

I do, and you and Norcal, and mrb and Charles, Gooch too, are superior posters. I just thought you were a little rough on the DDawg, who has earned my respect. I try to stay on his good side in case I wander into the Ghetto he patrols.

 

[gnxtc2]

Do yourself a favor and don't put the refridge on a GFCI protected circuit.

I want to know who is going to put a sump pump in an unfinished basement on GFCI protected circuit?

Billy T.
[email protected]

 

[Norcal]

I do, and you and Norcal, and mrb and Charles, Gooch too, are superior posters. I just thought you were a little rough on the DDawg, who has earned my respect. I try to stay on his good side in case I wander into the Ghetto he patrols.

.

I rarely get south of Sacramento, so not very likely to be in DDawg's territory.

 

[nate379]

I wonder if it has to do with the receptacle heating up? I have a 120v air compressor that has killed 2 or 3 GFCI outlets in my garage. It wouldn't trip it, just the outlet would stop working. Power on the back of the receptacle from the wires but no power in the front where you plug in.
I'm not even going to pretend to know what was going on there, but I ended up putting in a normal outlet and all has been well.

to those who are saying things with motors, 'high amp' loads, things with a high inrush, etc trip a gfci are 100% WRONG. A GFCI receptacle doesnt even know how much current is going through it. They only trip if more than ~5ma is leaking to ground.

And as far as being a pro or a novice... Well I never opened a book or even slept in a Holiday Inn Express but I have seen quite a bit of work done by licensed "pros" that got me to go W....T...F....!!!
That doesn't mean the pros on here are doing work like that, but still...

 

[ddawg16]

It might help to undersand how a GFCI works. The following link to Wikipedia has a good explination and pics...the pics are important...

How a GFCI Works

Basically...the two wires (Hot and Neutral) pass through a toroid (transformer). If the current coming back on the neutral is the same as the current going down the hot...no differential current is developed in the coil. But, if there is a difference (which typically means leakage to ground), then a current is developed in the coil and the unit trips.

Now look at the pics.....if one of those wires gets a bit too close to the side of the toroid as compared to the other, it will start to induce a current....

Based on personal experience with large GFI's on MCC's....if you get the incoming wire feed bundle too far off center, you get premature trips. It was fine with low current loads, but as the load went up....say over 2000A, then it would trip out. Once we centered the bundle....it was fine up to the limit if 3000A.

So....if you have a fairly large amp load....and the GFCI does not have the wires properly centered (got droped?), then you might be getting false trips.

Also....you 'could' have a component that has some leakage to ground....a filter capacitor would be a good example.....

For reference....I have a old heat gun....real simple device....motor and heating elements....if I plug it into my bench outlet where I have the GFCI....it trips.....if I take it over to the far wall where I now have about 50' of wire between the heat gun and GFCI....no trip. Nothing else in the garage trips the GFCI.

And for the record.....I am NOT an electrician....I am a Controls Engineer (among other things). My specialties are PLC's, MCC's, Analog, RF, Microwave, software (Pascal, RMB, C, Fortran, ADA) and throwing people in jail. I design control systems and program the software for them....Yes, I can wire them....but for the most part, we have contractors that handle all the grunt work of running conduit and pulling wire....I just tell them where and how much....I know when to use rigid...and EMT....I know how long that seal tight can be....and how many conductors can be tossed in it....

So, no, I'm not an electrician.....

 

[lametec]

t was fine with low current loads, but as the load went up....say over 2000A, then it would trip out. Once we centered the bundle....it was fine up to the limit if 3000A.

So....if you have a fairly large amp load....and the GFCI does not have the wires properly centered (got droped?), then you might be getting false trips.

I don't think (m)any of us here has to worry about 2000+ amp loads.

 

[mrb]

ddawg16, is that actually GFCI protection or GFP with a trip setting of 100 amps or more? (to those who dont know, ground fault protection is required on services over 2000 amps / 480 and is commonly installed on 2000 amp 120/208Y services as well since your main breaker will see a short as a load and wont trip. Ever seen a 2000 amp arc welder? There have been buildings where several floors of 5000amp 480v bus duct burned down)

the wire position in the CT is important here, especially considering the currents involved. I havent opened a gfci receptacle in a long time but as i recalll the CT in there doesnt have any room for the sense conductors to move around.

 

[Falcon67]

I would never plug a fridge into a GFCI outlet in the garage, unless it only held beer I didn't care about. They nuisance trip too much and finding out your fridge with a load of meat in it quit working a week before because of a nuisance trip would not be fun.

Daughters house is wired to current code with a GFCI in the garage with a fridge on it. Yes, it tripped. Yummy, 20 lbs of spoiled meat in a 110F garage. The fridge is still on that circuit and has not tripped since last summer. I would say it WILL happen, not if.

 

[mrb]

if i needed a garage fridge to store surplus meat or what have you, i might be inclined to order a 240v model (i saw 220-240v 50/60hz models, i wonder if theyre ul listed) -that receptacle wouldnt have to be gfci.

 

[nate379]

We are allowed here to have non-GFCI outlets in the garage for that purpose (fridge or freezer). I think it's a dedicated 20 amp circuit though.

 

[mrb]

We are allowed here to have non-GFCI outlets in the garage for that purpose (fridge or freezer). I think it's a dedicated 20 amp circuit though.

that is lucky