The new guy would love some advice.

[GTAHVIT]

We're building a new house with an attached 3 car garage.

Below is a pic of the floor plan. I need some help with the layout of some items and ANY advice on the best use of the space...

We're early enough that I can tell them where I want certain items placed, like the water heater, Deep sink, drain etc...

Since I can't get the roof raised, I'm stuck with a about an 8 1/2' ceiling and decided to go with jackshaft garage door openers for both doors.

I've also decided on the Military grade ultra floor coating from Armor garage for the floor.

Ultimately I want a lift, and it looks like I'll have to go with a 4 post due to the ceiling height...

I'm really torn on the optional wall between the 1 car and the 2 car. Right now I'm looking at having no wall separating the garages. We only have two cars, a camaro and a tahoe... so I could make the one car a "shop" and park both cars in the 2 car or park one in the one car and put the "shop" and park a car in the two car.... or use the wall .... gah... Maybe I'm over complicating it...

Either way I'm stoked to have the new space

 

[Nighttrain]

Congrats on the new planned garage and house. Can you extend the third garage all the way to the back of the house? I would go without the wall. You will have plenty of wall space as it is. You are going to need the floor space. See if they can put the water heater up in the attic. And also go with a taller garage door than the 7' door they are spec’ing.

And if the Tahoe is your wife’s vehicle just keep it outside.

 

[GTAHVIT]

I can ask about extending the one car... never thought of that. the water heater will be Gas, so I'll see if that has any impact on where it can be placed..

And I'll ask about the door... is that just to fit taller vehicles?

 

[Fiberglass Fred]

I wouldn't put in the wall. If you're going to put a fullsize truck (Tahoe) in there, you'll want as much width as possible.

Plus, without the wall, you can back the car out and get more shop space, as needed.

And I'll ask about the door... is that just to fit taller vehicles?

it'll get the rails up higher. Also, if you get a 4 post lift you're more likely to be able to roll it out, as needed.

 

[justbummin1]

x2 on no wall!!! You can never have enough floor space so dont chop it up! also i would try to get 10 foot minimum walls and a 8 foot tall door especially if you want to get a lift. I know it seems big now but once you put in a bench and start getting all your stuff in there it is amazing how quick you feel cramped again. Congrats on the new space and Enjoy!

Rob

 

[GTAHVIT]

I wouldn't put in the wall. If you're going to put a fullsize truck (Tahoe) in there, you'll want as much width as possible.

Plus, without the wall, you can back the car out and get more shop space, as needed.

it'll get the rails up higher. Also, if you get a 4 post lift you're more likely to be able to roll it out, as needed.

ah gotchya!

that makes perfect sense.

I'll ask the builder today.

Thanks!

x2 on no wall!!! You can never have enough floor space so dont chop it up! also i would try to get 10 foot minimum walls and a 8 foot tall door especially if you want to get a lift. I know it seems big now but once you put in a bench and start getting all your stuff in there it is amazing how quick you feel cramped again. Congrats on the new space and Enjoy!

Rob

We went round and round with the builder we finally decided to dig down the garage but that was gonna cost 1500 and they only would get me 6" - 8" of roof height... It just didn't make sense... that's half of what a lift would cost....

 

[justbummin1]

Trust me I understand where you are coming from on the cash. Just didnt want you kicking yourself when its all done. There always has to be compromises but I am sure you will love the new space.

Rob

 

[Davd_Pa]

another one for the open floor plan. It makes like so much easier in the end.
For the water heater, see if you can get a tankless version installed on the wall instead?

Good luck w/the garage.
Dave

 

[CrashTestDummy]

I think that water heater is for the whole new house. A tankless for a whole house would be expensive, I think, and probably not function well for use points far away from the heater (hot/cold cycle when taking a shower, for example).

Can you put in a tray ceiling in the 1-car part, so it's raised, and you can use more of your lift? Just a thought.

I'm all for no divider between the two areas, too. You loose storage area and workbench area, but gain space to work on big projects.

Good luck with the build.

Oh yeah, the only other problem I see is that that garage is too small.

Gene Beaird,
Pearland, Texas

 

[GTAHVIT]

Trust me I understand where you are coming from on the cash. Just didnt want you kicking yourself when its all done. There always has to be compromises but I am sure you will love the new space.

Rob

yeah I struggled with that one but I don't see how 6" of ceiling height was gonna make much difference...

I can't wait to have the extra space.

another one for the open floor plan. It makes like so much easier in the end.
For the water heater, see if you can get a tankless version installed on the wall instead?

Good luck w/the garage.
Dave

Cool, open floor it is.. we checked and a takless for the whole house is Big coin... and code won't let us put it in the attic... but... I may have a solution...

I think that water heater is for the whole new house. A tankless for a whole house would be expensive, I think, and probably not function well for use points far away from the heater (hot/cold cycle when taking a shower, for example).

Can you put in a tray ceiling in the 1-car part, so it's raised, and you can use more of your lift? Just a thought.

I'm all for no divider between the two areas, too. You loose storage area and workbench area, but gain space to work on big projects.

Good luck with the build.

Oh yeah, the only other problem I see is that that garage is too small.

Gene Beaird,
Pearland, Texas

Well we decided to extend the one car another 4 feet in depth (thanks for the idea nighttrain)... So that will give us more floor space... Unfortuanetly no Tray ceiling.... without big cost... like 2500 to rebuild the trusses... grrr.

Anyone have any thoughts on where to put the water heater and service sink (SS on the plans)??

 

[Fiberglass Fred]

Unfortuanetly no Tray ceiling.... without big cost... like 2500 to rebuild the trusses... grrr.

If you really want a lift, then 2500 should be well worth it. Not for 6", but if they could get you 2' or so, it'd make all the difference.

You might look at just doing a tray, or vaulted ceiling over the 1 car part, and leaving the 2 car part as is. That might not cost nearly as much as the $2.5k they quoted you.

 

[Nighttrain]

Glad you’re going back on the one side. 4 feet will be a big difference. At planning stage adding a couple of feet if it's only one floor in that area should not add too much cost.

We had two gas hot water heaters in our attic in Houston, not sure if Florida is different but I would think the codes may be similar.

Also see what the builder will do for you with lighting and electrical outlets. Get at least two circuits with as many outlets as possible. Also a 220v or two.

 

[GTAHVIT]

If you really want a lift, then 2500 should be well worth it. Not for 6", but if they could get you 2' or so, it'd make all the difference.

You might look at just doing a tray, or vaulted ceiling over the 1 car part, and leaving the 2 car part as is. That might not cost nearly as much as the $2.5k they quoted you.

I agree, I was really disappointed when the builder said the trusses won't accommodate the height I wanted... I think it really came down to they don't want to jump through the hoops to make structural changes like that so they jacked the price up, and only committed to less than a foot of height gain, hoping I wouldn't bite... But the builder pulled me aside and said, If I can wait until the house is built and the title clears, he'll have the foreman work with me after the house is done... And the price was much lower... all permitted and to code. No hack jobs. Basically he said I may be able to use Most of the attic space, which would be more like 3 to 4 feet.... so I decided to extend the 1 car and go from there... I won't have the lift any time soon Maybe 6 months to a year after we move in.... So we've got time to sort it out. And the house is right now at is limit for cost... We're $200 over our budget price, So the wife is getting pretty... um... Firm that no more money... will be spent...

Glad you’re going back on the one side. 4 feet will be a big difference. At planning stage adding a couple of feet if it's only one floor in that area should not add too much cost.

We had two gas hot water heaters in our attic in Houston, not sure if Florida is different but I would think the codes may be similar.

Also see what the builder will do for you with lighting and electrical outlets. Get at least two circuits with as many outlets as possible. Also a 220v or two.

I'd LOVE to get the water heater off the floor for sure... I'll ask again...

as for the lights and outlets, I've got a good friend who is an electrician, he's gonna help me wire after we move in... No need to put stuff in the loan that we can do ourselves.

But IF we have to leave the water heater in the garage, I'm thinking a corner...

I'm working on a new floor plan I'll upload in a sec.

 

[rickairmedic]

I would put the sink and water heater in the Laundry room . I would also rethink the tankless . We put one in this year and I will never go back to a tank water heater . There really is nothing like an endless supply of hot water .

Rick

 

[GTAHVIT]

I would put the sink and water heater in the Laundry room . I would also rethink the tankless . We put one in this year and I will never go back to a tank water heater . There really is nothing like an endless supply of hot water .

Rick

yeah we talked about the laundry room for the sink.... May need to revisit that idea...

the one thing they were very clear about was putting the water heater inside the house.... Maybe if it's tankless thats ok since nothing is under pressure...

Hmm.. it seems pretty clear that ceiling height and floor space seem to be critical... Might have to go another round with the builder... We have till Monday before the structural is locked in...

in the mean time if I have to settle for water heater and sink in the garage, here is the way I'm leaning to maximize my bench, parking and wall storage.

 

[Nighttrain]

I like that new plan. That 4' and no seperation wall really makes a difference.

If you are going to have that work done in the garage afterwards will they deduct to not have sheetrock work done on the outside walls of the garage? This may save you some money on the build and be eaiser to wire etc afterwards. They will have to do sheetrock on the walls conected to the house though. Once your done and if there are sheetrock crews in that area you can get it finished for probably $15 a sheet.

Your hot water heater looks good there. I imagine the further away it is from the gas source (pipe) will add to cost. They will have to vent it through the roof so expect that pipe to be seen from the front of the house. Still see if they can get it up to the attic and towards the back though.

Sink looks good there.

 

[Kriilin]

......But the builder pulled me aside and said, If I can wait until the house is built and the title clears, he'll have the foreman work with me after the house is done... And the price was much lower... all permitted and to code. No hack jobs.....

I'm no expert here, but the above quote got my spidey senses tingling, it's NEVER cheaper to do something after the fact, unless they're doing it to avoid inspections, or something. I'd get a quiet second opinion on that one...

 

[rickairmedic]

I see another 36+ square feet of garage space if they can do it . I would see about extending the front of the single car out even with the 2 car that would give you over 28' of depth on the singlecar portion of the garage .


Rick

 

[Kriilin]

I agree on the no wall between. I would also consider a 2nd floor drain in the single-car area. Looks like a perfect wash bay..

 

[GTAHVIT]

I like that new plan. That 4' and no seperation wall really makes a difference.

If you are going to have that work done in the garage afterwards will they deduct to not have sheetrock work done on the outside walls of the garage? This may save you some money on the build and be eaiser to wire etc afterwards. They will have to do sheetrock on the walls conected to the house though. Once your done and if there are sheetrock crews in that area you can get it finished for probably $15 a sheet.

Your hot water heater looks good there. I imagine the further away it is from the gas source (pipe) will add to cost. They will have to vent it through the roof so expect that pipe to be seen from the front of the house. Still see if they can get it up to the attic and towards the back though.

Sink looks good there.

I've got a meeting with the builder tomorrow. So we'll discuss leaving the ceiling unfinished. That way we can possibly do a trey style ceiling using the attic space after we move in.... We'll see. I'll ask again about the water heater but they seemed pretty adamant that it had to be in the garage. My Father has been in the dry wall business for 30 years... He said that it can come down to deed restrictions also. So it may be a development requirement

I'm no expert here, but the above quote got my spidey senses tingling, it's NEVER cheaper to do something after the fact, unless they're doing it to avoid inspections, or something. I'd get a quiet second opinion on that one...

NO you are correct, I think the real reason is they don't want to go back and re-engineer the ceiling trusses this late in the game... But again having spoken to my dad... He said it is possible but pretty expensive to change em... We are using a Semi custom builder... and the Rep we've been working with has been great. But I agree with you... IF we do it after the fact we'll have to have our act together and make sure it is permitted and done correclty.

I see another 36+ square feet of garage space if they can do it . I would see about extending the front of the single car out even with the 2 car that would give you over 28' of depth on the singlecar portion of the garage .

That was a really good idea. I did ask about the front. They showed us a house that had the two even... and the Wife said it made the house look flat..... Had to concede that one... Now I know why you build a detached garage...

Rick

I agree on the no wall between. I would also consider a 2nd floor drain in the single-car area. Looks like a perfect wash bay..

, we went back and forth over that... since we decided to add the extra space to the front of the single that will be my "shop" with my work benches and tools, I'll use the 2 car as wash space work area. I'll put my storage shelves over along the wall next to the water heater..

Thanks very much for all the advice so far guys, it's been a huge help. I wish were building a true custom home... I'm really happy to have the 3rd car space... now I need to figure out what I'm gonna do for a lift... scissor, maxjax or BYB 7000 four post?????

That brings up a question.... with the floor sloped for a drain.. will a 4 post be ok on a unlevel floor?

Thanks again guys!

 

[bczygan]

I see another 36+ square feet of garage space if they can do it . I would see about extending the front of the single car out even with the 2 car that would give you over 28' of depth on the singlecar portion of the garage .


Rick

I agree on the above. It may need to still be kept back a foot or so to avoid a big flat expanse of unbroken wall.
Also, I would frame in a closet right behind the service sink for that water heater with access panel into the garage. Use fire rated drywall if that's what code requires to separate it from the rest of the living space.

 

[GTAHVIT]

I agree on the above. It may need to still be kept back a foot or so to avoid a big flat expanse of unbroken wall.
Also, I would frame in a closet right behind the service sink for that water heater with access panel into the garage. Use fire rated drywall if that's what code requires to separate it from the rest of the living space.

That space is the laundry room, But I may be able to enclose the WH on the other side of the back wall of the garage... another question for the builder..

the HVAC is in side the house... I'll ask them again to see if they can put the W/H in that space.... I don't remember ever getting an answer on that.

 

[JSBriggs]

Any reason the water heater cant take up some of the laundry room space, or be in the laundry room? Or maybe look at going with a tankless/on demand heater that can mount to the wall above the sink in the garage.

-Jeff

 

[GTAHVIT]

Any reason the water heater cant take up some of the laundry room space, or be in the laundry room? Or maybe look at going with a tankless/on demand heater that can mount to the wall above the sink in the garage.

-Jeff

No reason other than we want to use that space for folding clothes and for our pets, cat food, dog food litter box etc.

 

[GTAHVIT]

OK update...

There was a small problem that may work out to my benefit

Apparently that wall that separates the two garages was designed to be load bearing.... Luckily, they are willing to re engineer the plans so we will get a full opening. At no cost

The good news that came from this is they are going to look at re engineering the trusses to include a Trey ceiling and try to get me 2' of height. So the over all height in the Trey will be about 10' 6" So that's pretty cool. Probably not enough for me to stand under a lift. but enough to justify a 4 post?

the Ceiling will have a 3' Step all the way around the 2 car garage which will be at around 8' 6". The trey will hopefully extend vertically into the rafters another 2'.

The Trey section will be about 13' X 17' Uploaded a new pic.

The Superintendent said, it should be pretty cheap to do as long as they are re engineering the trusses to accommodate the removal of the load bearing wall.

So we'll see.

 

[monkeyplasm]

How about something like the attached? Feel free to move this junk around a little.

Red Circle:
Water heater close to house laundry room, and all the garage **** below.
Green squares:
Washer/Dryer in garage: old units dedicated for greasy garage ****/clothes only.
Orange Rectangle:
Cabinets/Drawers; garage only clothes/towels/etc.; your wife doesn't want in the house.
Blue Square:
Shop Sink; stainless steel; used from a restraunt supply store; not plactic Lowes junk.
Pink Rectangle:
Shop Dishwasher: Old household unit. Cleans greasy parts/tools.
Brown Rectangle:
Shop Oven for powder coating. Old household unit.
Purple Rectangles:
Garage Fridge and Deep Freeze.

NOT to scale, but these are all useful garage appliances, now or in the future.

Water heater is close to garage sink.
Water heater is close to garage dishwasher.
Water heater is close to laundry room.
Garage laundry is on same wall as house laundry room
Garage dishwasher is near house laundry room (think waste water)
Garage sink is near house laundry room (think waste water)

Always nice to be able to clean some parts in the dishwasher then heat some in the oven while freezing others - makes interference-fit parts much easier to assenble.

Be sure to run water/drain and electrical for all this **** (and more **) BEFORE applying drywall. Also plenty of general lighting.

** Stuff like garage TV, stereo, computer, speakers, phone, mirror ball, strobe lights, etc.

Or not, as you see fit.

 

[Nighttrain]

Glad to see the builder working with you. We had a three car garage like yours in our last house. It did not have that wall but I forgot it did have a steel post to support the cross beam. Very big cross beam. The ceilings were about 10' although that beam came down about 2'right down the center of the garage from side to side. It will be interesting to see how they are going to have a free span across there. They may need to put in a post which is no too big of a problem. Much better than the wall. I ended up just placing several tools around the post.

 

[GTAHVIT]

How about something like the attached? Feel free to move this junk around a little.

Red Circle:
Water heater close to house laundry room, and all the garage **** below.
Green squares:
Washer/Dryer in garage: old units dedicated for greasy garage ****/clothes only.
Orange Rectangle:
Cabinets/Drawers; garage only clothes/towels/etc.; your wife doesn't want in the house.
Blue Square:
Shop Sink; stainless steel; used from a restraunt supply store; not plactic Lowes junk.
Pink Rectangle:
Shop Dishwasher: Old household unit. Cleans greasy parts/tools.
Brown Rectangle:
Shop Oven for powder coating. Old household unit.
Purple Rectangles:
Garage Fridge and Deep Freeze.

NOT to scale, but these are all useful garage appliances, now or in the future.

Water heater is close to garage sink.
Water heater is close to garage dishwasher.
Water heater is close to laundry room.
Garage laundry is on same wall as house laundry room
Garage dishwasher is near house laundry room (think waste water)
Garage sink is near house laundry room (think waste water)

Always nice to be able to clean some parts in the dishwasher then heat some in the oven while freezing others - makes interference-fit parts much easier to assenble.

Be sure to run water/drain and electrical for all this **** (and more **) BEFORE applying drywall. Also plenty of general lighting.

** Stuff like garage TV, stereo, computer, speakers, phone, mirror ball, strobe lights, etc.

Or not, as you see fit.

Whoa! I would have NEVER thought of all that...

I'm sure some of that will have to wait.. an OVEN??? Damn that's brilliant.

Unfortunately I'm not much of a fabricator or machinist so most of the work I do is wrenching on my car.... However... I'm considering a welding class... at the local Community College.

Man when I first read your ideas I thought you were messing with me... except the disco ball of course But each and every one of your ideas made perfect sense... once I started thinking about it.

Those are some great ideas...

 

[GTAHVIT]

Glad to see the builder working with you. We had a three car garage like yours in our last house. It did not have that wall but I forgot it did have a steel post to support the cross beam. Very big cross beam. The ceilings were about 10' although that beam came down about 2'right down the center of the garage from side to side. It will be interesting to see how they are going to have a free span across there. They may need to put in a post which is no too big of a problem. Much better than the wall. I ended up just placing several tools around the post.

Yeah, I'm pretty happy they are at least looking at a way to make it work.

We'll see, I should know in a day or so.

 

[PERFORMANCE-RED]

You could easily get 3'4" more by making the garage doors flush in front as well. Plus less sideing/bricking easier roof line ect.... could save some money as well.

 

[GTAHVIT]

You could easily get 3'4" more by making the garage doors flush in front as well. Plus less sideing/bricking easier roof line ect.... could save some money as well.

The wife overruled that one... The elevation we have for the front of the house has some decorative hips that the Wife can't do without... In order to bring the one car door flush with the two car, we'd ahve to go with a different elevation... Wife wasn't going for it.

 

[bczygan]

Just a reminder.......the attic access needs to be moved from within the trey ceiling area.

OK update...

There was a small problem that may work out to my benefit

Apparently that wall that separates the two garages was designed to be load bearing.... Luckily, they are willing to re engineer the plans so we will get a full opening. At no cost

The good news that came from this is they are going to look at re engineering the trusses to include a Trey ceiling and try to get me 2' of height. So the over all height in the Trey will be about 10' 6" So that's pretty cool. Probably not enough for me to stand under a lift. but enough to justify a 4 post?

the Ceiling will have a 3' Step all the way around the 2 car garage which will be at around 8' 6". The trey will hopefully extend vertically into the rafters another 2'.

The Trey section will be about 13' X 17' Uploaded a new pic.

The Superintendent said, it should be pretty cheap to do as long as they are re engineering the trusses to accommodate the removal of the load bearing wall.

So we'll see.

 

[bczygan]

The wife overruled that one... The elevation we have for the front of the house has some decorative hips that the Wife can't do without... In order to bring the one car door flush with the two car, we'd ahve to go with a different elevation... Wife wasn't going for it.

Don't bring it all the way flush.........leave it back a foot and you get the same look and more garage space.

 

[GTAHVIT]

Just a reminder.......the attic access needs to be moved from within the trey ceiling area.

Don't bring it all the way flush.........leave it back a foot and you get the same look and more garage space.

Yep... If don't ever log back on to GJ... I probably took a frying pan to the noggin...



OK so the update. It looks like they are willing to build the following Trey into the garage attic space. They want 5 feet of normal roof height at the sides and front of the garage, and will take the trey all the way back to the back wall. This will give me a 9' by 18' trey with an additional 2' of vertical height for an over height of about 10' 6"....

They are saying it would be 2K + if they can do it... Nothing official just yet...

Question is.... is it worth the 2k+ for a 9'x18'x2' trey????

Edit:

Doing some quick math... the ceiling height would be 126" the Camaro is 55" tall leaving me with 71" of vertical lift.. I'm 5'9".... 69" inches... Wow... that's pretty close to being able to lift the camaro high enough on a 4 post lift and be able to stand under it.....

GAH!!!! decisions....

 

[bczygan]

Does that trey start 5' from the wall and go straight up vertical to the 10'6" height?

Yep... If don't ever log back on to GJ... I probably took a frying pan to the noggin...



OK so the update. It looks like they are willing to build the following Trey into the garage attic space. They want 5 feet of normal roof height at the sides and front of the garage, and will take the trey all the way back to the back wall. This will give me a 9' by 18' trey with an additional 2' of vertical height for an over height of about 10' 6"....

They are saying it would be 2K + if they can do it... Nothing official just yet...

Question is.... is it worth the 2k+ for a 9'x18'x2' trey????

Edit:

Doing some quick math... the ceiling height would be 126" the Camaro is 55" tall leaving me with 71" of vertical lift.. I'm 5'9".... 69" inches... Wow... that's pretty close to being able to lift the camaro high enough on a 4 post lift and be able to stand under it.....

GAH!!!! decisions....

 

[GTAHVIT]

Does that trey start 5' from the wall and go straight up vertical to the 10'6" height?

That is my one last remaining question to the builder... If it in fact is a vertical wall to the top of the trey, I'm really tempted... if it is an angled Trey that comes to a point in the center. I don't think it's worth it.

 

[steven083008]

A couple of quick "wish list" items.

Turn the attic access so that it would come down between two cars parked in the garage.

Put the water heater next to where you have the sink at, because that short wall is already "wasted space". If you put it in the right corner (where it is shown) you will probably have issues parking your Tahoe on that side. No point in limiting your options.

I don't know if a 9' wide garage door is standard or not, but if so, I would get it! An 8' wide door can seem narrow at times, and what if you end up buying a boat you want to park on that side???

With the tray ceiling being where you are showing it, that is going to be a pain to use because you will have to move everything out of the garage and move the lift over there every time you want to use it (assuming you are parking two cars in the garage.) Unless you are doing a big job, you will probably say it isn't worth it for changing tires, etc. and not use the lift nearly as much as you would use a shorter lift that is permanently in the 1-car bay. That's just my guess though, your results may vary.

 

[GTAHVIT]

With the tray ceiling being where you are showing it, that is going to be a pain to use because you will have to move everything out of the garage and move the lift over there every time you want to use it (assuming you are parking two cars in the garage.) Unless you are doing a big job, you will probably say it isn't worth it for changing tires, etc. and not use the lift nearly as much as you would use a shorter lift that is permanently in the 1-car bay. That's just my guess though, your results may vary.

That is basically the core of my dilemma... I can very easily see my self changing oil, clutches, Possibly transmissions (rarely) rotating tires, suspension, Differentials, Half shafts exhausts etc... But to lift the car, I'll have to move the tahoe, put the 4 post on casters and roll it to the center before I do any major work. I don't see myself leaving the 4 post in the middle of the garage and having my wife park under or on it daily... but we could???

Or, she can park in the one car and I can park in the 2 car and leave the lift in the middle???

OOOORRRRRRRRR
I could leave the ceiling alone and get s scissor or MaxJax style lift and just deal with the fact that i would not be able to stand under the lift...

That's what I'm trying to work out.....

 

[datsunfan]

My 3-car has almost the same footprint as yours. I wish I had gone with another overhead door on the back of the 1-car section, to make it a drive-thru to the back yard. Several others in my neighborhood did this, but in my case it would have put us over budget, not just for the door but the extra framing, and moving the condensers so they wouldnt block access to the "rear" driveway. So we compromised, and have a walk door in that wall, I like to keep it open in the hot weather for flow-thru ventilation

 

[GTAHVIT]

That would be cool. But not an option for this house.