Garage Fires: What did you learn?

[UncleJoe]

I have seen several posts where members had garage fires. My heart goes out to any who have suffered through this.

As an exercise in what my father used to refer to as "distance learning" (where you learn from someone else's bad experience) could you share what you learned from going through all this. You might include what caused the fire, or what you would do different now, how the insurance company treated you. What you changed or would change in your next shop. Anything that you think might help the rest of us.

I would guess that someone would think they have all the bases covered then a fire actually happens and they learn that they did not have everything figured out.

What you decide to share is up to you. I know I would value learning from your experience. I think everyone here could benefit from the lessons you share.

Thanks

 

[BLUBAYOU]

I have been lucky enough not to have one, but a friend of mine did a few years back. Single car garage with all his tools. He let a friend do some fiberglass and other work in there on something and the guy left some oily rags in a can that ended up igniting once he left. It burned to the ground. Luckily he had insurance (it was renters - he didn't own it) and it covered his losses. What I learned from that was to document what you have in case you need proof for reimbursement.

On the garage I built 2 years ago, I was given my CC from the building department without having any electrical in the building. I've since wired it and am now insulating before drywall. Once I add a couple other circuits I'll get an inspection, simply as a CYA move in case there's ever an electrical fire. I don't want a claim to cause me to lose reimbursement for everything in my garage because I cheaped out and didn't get an inspection before closing the walls up.

 

[milner351]

From what I've heard about not only fires but also thefts (the same friends garage was broken into twice) The bottom line is to document what you have and talk to your insurance agent about it.

Keep tool receipts - and take lots of pictures, then keep that CD or thumb drive of pictures in a fire proof safe perhaps inside the house.

A friend gave me some great advice

- never leave a shop soon after welding, torching or grinding -

Hang around for a while - clean and put tools away - whatever - but watch and smell for smoke - especially when mig and arc welding sparks can fly a long ways from where you're working.

 

[tdkkart]

A friend had the "wall-wart" transformer from a flourescent trouble light catch fire and burnt his shop back in the 80's. This fire is the reason I've always shied away from using OSB in my shop, the stuff goes up like a torch!!
Unplug your wall warts.......

 

[pcmeiners]

No garage fire but house fire caused by spontaneous combustion due to negligence of a painting contractor getting turpentine and other solvents on drop cloths which were folded up and left in the basement. Never leave rags or tarps which have had turpentine, oil, or other solvents on them in a a combustible space; especially turpentine. Goes for pool chlorine. Contractor had a pile of drop cloths about 2'x2' by about 2' high, after they ignited the pile was just ash, nothing left of the pile, even though there was plenty of other combustible material right next to it, pretty much intact. Fire took out the joists and flooring above but no fire above that due to cellulose fiber insulation in the walls stopping it. Also note the entire interior of the house was coated with a black lacquer type finish due to busting paint cans, vapor of which mixed with the smoke, it coated everything in the 2 story house... paint lockers are a good idea.
Plan to build my garage with type C Sheetrock, holds up to fire much better then type X.

 

[billspit]

One of my daughter's high school friend's parents lost their luxury home a few years back when they either tried to jump start a car or charge a dead battery in a car in their garage. THe battery exploded and caught teh house on fire. They lost everything except the clothes on their back. These folks were wealthy, but some things you can't buy.

 

[ducati]

If you do a lot of wood working and using stains, lay your used stain rags out to dry before you throw them away. They can and will self combust without a heat source, it is just a chemical reaction. I never used to buy that until I saw the neighbors dumbster catch on fire from some stain rags thrown in it.

 

[Grumpy365]

I haven't lost a garage, but i had some close calls.

1. I had a gas generator.
I set it on a welding table in the middle of the shop.
The float on the carb stuck spilling fuel.
The fuel ran out of the carb, pooled on the table, then ran down on to the floor.
It created a perfect vapor scenario.
I was trying to sleep and i could smell fuel. I mistakenly thought it was the lingering smell of exhaust from briefly running the small engine in the garage. After the smell got stronger i checked it (@ about 2:00am)
I had a gas water heater in the garage that could have very easily set the place up like a roman candle.
I firmly believe the only reason it didn't ignite was the fact that i had raised the water heater 24" off the floor when i moved into the house and the vapors settled just under it.

2. Lawn mower fire (this was on the porch, but it just as well could have been the garage).

3. (again a porch issue that could have been in the garage) I had a heat lamp / brooding lamp hanging over a dog bed in the winter.
The lamp fell and fell onto the bedding.
I woke up in the middle of the night to pee and looked out the door noticing the light was "different". So i looked and found the light smoldering on the blankets.
The blankets were some kind of polyester and just melted.
If it would have been a wool army blanket it would have burned probably taking the house with it.

 

[Grumpy365]

If you do a lot of wood working and using stains, lay your used stain rags out to dry before you throw them away. They can and will self combust without a heat source, it is just a chemical reaction. I never used to buy that until I saw the neighbors dumbster catch on fire from some stain rags thrown in it.

My dad was building a log cabin. They had painters staining the interior walls. The painters put the rags in a plastic sack and they ignited, burning down the home

 

[iluv69s]

I was building a pro street camaro and mig welding the roll bar. I left the garage for about a half hour and when I returned the garage was full of smoke. The camaro had no interior but the dash was intact. The wiring harness under the dash was on fire from a stray spark. Luckily I had a fire extinguisher handy and only lost the wiring. It could have been way worse had I not returned to the garage or if I did not have a fire extinguisher.

In another case, I came home one evening and went to enter my home and noticed what seemed like an orange glow from just behind my garage. When I walked out back, there was a 2 foot high flame that was burning my wooden deck. I quickly grabbed the garden hose and put it out. Believe it or not, my brother had put out a cigarette **** about 4 hours earlier in one of my plant containers that I had on the deck. Apparently, the vermiculite that was mixed in the soil smoldered for hours until it eventually caught fire. If I had arrived home another half hour later, I would have probabaly lost my whole house.

One more case of my pure stupidity..but I was only 21 years old. I was tearing apart a 69 Camaro for parts. I dropped the gas tank in the driveway and gas spilled on the grass strip between the concrete. Soon after, I broke out my torches and started to burn the tunnel out of the car in order to save the factory 4 speed hole. Of course the gas started fire under the car. Worse yet, my friend grabbed the garden hose and proceeded to try to put the fire out...At that point I had a 10 foot by 30 raging fire in the driveway under the car. Fortunately there was an extinguisher nearby inside the garage and I ran and put the fire out. Imagine that this all happened in the driveway of my future in-law´s home. And they still let me marry thier daughter !!!

Most important is FIRE EXTINGUISHER in every garage...it does not hurt to have two if you have a big garage.

 

[cobragrover]

I had a friend who had a garage fire due to stain soaked rags. That seems to be a common theme here. I think you are supposed to keep them in a metal container with a lid. Isn't that the proper way?? Not trying to be smart, just asking. Maybe it will prevent someone else from losing their belongings.

 

[nehog]

No fires yet...

1. Unplug everything that doesn't have to be on and in use. Don't leave battery chargers on (especially if they say "Made in China" on them) charging tool batteries. Don't leave lamps on either unless you are 100% sure they are safe. Turn it off, unplug it.

2. Rags (oily), especially linseed oil, must be disposed in a fire proof metal container with a locking cover. Make sure the container is far enough away from everything else that if it were to burn, it won't catch walls, equipment or other stuff on fire.

3. A fire extinguisher at every entrance. As big an extinguisher as you can afford, minimum of a 240.

4. Like the man above says, don't leave your shop immediately after welding, cutting or grinding.

Some years ago, the new court house in town, just a few weeks before it was to open: plumbers were finishing off the bathrooms, sweating pipes going into the walls. Must have caught a wall cavity on fire, not discovered until about 5 or 6 the next morning. They did manage to save the cellar hole however, and insurance paid for it. Ouch...

If you smoke, be very careful of them butts too... My sister lost her home that way (and yea, she still smokes--really stupid, IMHO)

 

[Ign]

I've learned it takes a lot more to do catastrophic fire damage to a steel building. Surface mount electrical in EMT makes electrical fires less of a concern.

Wearing a seat belt doesn't mean you're invincible, and a steel building w vinyl-backed insulation covered by interior steel sheeting is not fire proof, but I'll take whatever improves my chances.

 

[brownbagg]

Garage fire happen because someone is a *******, its common sense to think what would happen that would cause a fire. stupi wiring, overloading a circuit, chemical stotrage. gas motors, welding, cutting.

yes I weld in my shop but if you aware of what would happen and think safety, it can be controlled

 

[E.rodz]

MAKE SURE YOU HAVE FIRE EXTINGUISHERS!!!!! I have had a couple of really close calls and please learn from my mistakes and don't do what i have done in the past . I rented the basement of a friends house and I bumped a can of spray paint off the shelf somehow it punctured and starting spraying all over I quickly grabbed a rag to wrap around it and placed it in a garbage can 2 min. later I walked around the corner to find 6 foot flames all the way up the wall !! had no fire extinguisher just so happened to have a garden hose hooked up to the washroom sink and it saved the day.. had to change my shorts.but luckily it was just a close call.the source of the ignition was 20 ft. away from the can.
ok this was not the only time that I have had close calls. I used to save sawdust in 5 gal. cans marked as floor dry. T his proved to be a bad idea when some of your friends smoke. just so happen to walk back out in the shop to get something for work the next day to find the whole garage full of smoke.the sawdust had smoldered through the plastic lid on the bucket and was just melting the make shift painting curtain when i walked in.. this happened twice before i learned my lesson. since i have put smoke detectors and fully monitored fire and smoke services.hope this opens eyes and you guys don't do this!!

 

[rickairmedic]

Garage fire happen because someone is a *******, its common sense to think what would happen that would cause a fire. stupi wiring, overloading a circuit, chemical stotrage. gas motors, welding, cutting.

yes I weld in my shop but if you aware of what would happen and think safety, it can be controlled

Brownbagg I hope for your sake you never become a " ******* " .since this is all that causes garage fires .


Rick

 

[aar0s]

Ive seen a few garage fires in the 10 or so years ive been a PPC FF but the best one was the lady that started her car and went back in to get something then got a phone call and forgot her caddy was running next to her early 60's low mile all original fairlane 500, they had to repaint over the original paint on the fairlane. Biggest thing i can say is to pay attention to what your doing.

 

[sawin]

Used to do it myself sometimes....not any more.

Nearby fella was using a chainsaw. Lugged it into the garage, and proceeded to gas it up. Apparently muffler was hot and caught fire, and burned down garage...

I use my son's old camp to now store most of my flammables. Just an 8 x 10 shack that I moved outta the woods. I built a large shelf next to the door and put some crushed stone under. Makes a great place to gas up.

 

[haugy]

Great thread. This is always a big concern for me. I plan on building a storage bin on the front of the shop for storing gasoline. It will be outside, but out of the shop.

The rags thing does concern me. I'll need to be more careful about that. I normally use catch cans for excess, but I do use paper towels to wipe it up and then throw them away. Not smart.

I plan on putting quite a few fire extinguishers all over the shop. And then tying my smoke alarm into an audible siren that can be heard outside the shop.

 

[gloveman132]

A few years ago my son was welding in the garage. When he was done, he cleaned up and went surfing.

I came home about an hour later and could smell smoke in the garage. There was no fire until I moved the big bag of steel wool on the shelf above the workbench. When I disturbed it, the whole thing burst into flames.

Apparently, the steel wool had been smoldering for over an hour, had burned through the drywall and was beginning to catch the interior wall wood on fire!

I almost lost my whole house!

The lesson is, be careful of your surroundings and as previously stated, hang around for a while after doing high risk operations like Welding and Grinding.

 

[Grumpy365]

I plan on putting quite a few fire extinguishers all over the shop.

^^^ This is good

And then tying my smoke alarm into an audible siren that can be heard outside the shop.

^^^^^ This will drive you nuts and you will pull all the batteries the first week.

There is too much that goes on in the garage that will set these off.









.

 

[the1208]

i have people use my shop all the time and I have 1 rule you break the rule your out.
If you do ANYTHING that generates so much as a singal spark when your done working you take a 15 min or longer break before you leave just sit down have a drink what every just sit and look for sparks or some thing smoldering.

 

[haugy]

This will drive you nuts and you will pull all the batteries the first week.

There is too much that goes on in the garage that will set these off.

Yeah, but mine is actually tied into the alarm system. The fire alarms/smoke detectors come one when the alarm is set in the shop. I think my old jeep would set it off every minute.

I did try that once. I put a CO2 detector in my house garage. It didn't last a minute.

 

[nehog]

OK, here's a hint for smoke detectors: Get the photo-detector type, not the ionization kind. The photo-detector ones have a much better history of not false alarming over every little bit of whatever that happens.

They can be a bit more expensive, but worth the investment, especially if you want to avoid false alarms.

Also, if you have an open ceiling (like my metal building) a bunch of heat detectors are a really good move too. These self reset, and should be mounted away from heating ducts, but can save your shop too... And they are relatively inexpensive to boot.

 

[Grumpy365]

Yeah, but mine is actually tied into the alarm system. The fire alarms/smoke detectors come one when the alarm is set in the shop. I think my old jeep would set it off every minute.

I did try that once. I put a CO2 detector in my house garage. It didn't last a minute.

Is this an option with the alarm brand you used or did you manage to rig it yourself?

If it isn a factory option, can you share the brand / model?

That function is cool.

 

[fireguy]

No fires yet...


3. A fire extinguisher at every entrance. As big an extinguisher as you can afford, minimum of a 240.

QUOTE]

I think you mean a 2A40BC, or better a 4A60BC, which is a fancy way of saying a 10 # ABC extinguisher.

Do a search for fire extinguishers, there have been a couple of good threads

 

[MBfreak]

Here´s my $0,02´s worth, which has kept me out of trouble, so far. I am 65.
1 Install several smoke detectors in the garage. They ar a pain in the **** to listen to.
Also, I end up doing welding outside
2 Make sure that the area where the wall meets the floor is concreted over with a 2"
high "beam". That keeps sparks from rollling in and creating havoc after
several hours.
3 Install ONE switch that operates all electrics thru a contactor in the fusepanel.
When you enter, switch on. When you exit, off.
4 Have a steel cabinet for all paint, grease, solvent, whatever that catches fire
and keep it closed at all times

5 Not less than two hefty fire extinguishers

Ola

 

[Underdog]

Dump you garbage/trash cans in the outside dumpster last thing before leaving.

 

[stltikn]

When using an extension cord, use a large guage wire for heavier loads.
Do not use close coiled or tightly wrapped cords with heavy electrical loads, will cause an induction fire.

Do not use flammable products for cleaning anything. Gasoline is an internal combustion engine fuel period. Lacquer thinner is for thinning paint period. And the list goes on and on, 'nuff said.

Check frequently and stop any and all fuel leaks immediately.
Don't use copper tubing for fuel lines. Vibration will crack tubing.
Be very aware of your surroundings at all times.
Remove the people or yourself from the situation where dangerous behaviors are occurring.

 

[Grumpy365]

Do not use close coiled or tightly wrapped cords with heavy electrical loads, will cause an induction fire.

.

I agree in theory, but can anyone site a single instance where a structure burned down due to this?

I think you will find more fires from unrolled extension cords laying on the floor and incurring damage resulting in a short, than using a person using a rolled up extension cord.

That being said, extension cords **** and in a perfect world we would all have enough plugs to never need cords, BUT this is the real world.

 

[JimDon]

There is a pretty extensive thread on the Hobart forum about fire prevention when welding. In a nutshell, have fire extinguishers, but also, weld outside on the driveway if possible. Always have a CHarged hose available and within quick reach. I fill up a five gallon pail of water to have that right at hand along with the hose. Watch what you are welding near, whether it is on an auto, a piece of machinery, sawdust, etc. etc. in the area. When finished. Put away your tools, clean up, sit down and do a fire watch for 1/2 hour to an hour. Set up a chair and have a soda or ice tea or whatever and just sit for that period of time to make sure you have nothing smoldering. If you're right there, that big *** pail of water and that hose are going to go a LONG way to knocking down anything that might be brewing. After your hour time period, you should be good to go, but I still check back a couple times after that to make sure nothing is going on. Having a drink, cleaning up, admiring what you did , will make that hour go by pretty quickly and could save you some tremendous heartache down the road if you don't. Just my 2 cents worth.
Cheers,
JimDon

 

[nehog]

...
Do not use close coiled or tightly wrapped cords with heavy electrical loads, will cause an induction fire...

Can you post a reference to this effect?

 

[haugy]

Is this an option with the alarm brand you used or did you manage to rig it yourself?

If it isn a factory option, can you share the brand / model?

That function is cool.

Don't know the model or brand. I called a pro to do my house and shop. I asked him if this was something he could do, and without a blink he said yes and he did it. So I'm guessing it isn't too hard.

I've never been good at alarm systems.

 

[Grumpy365]

Can you post a reference to this effect?

It is based on coil induction ( like making a magnet by wrapping wire around a nail)

In theory you may be able to try to apply it to winding an extension cord, but its a sstttttrrrrrrreeeeetttccchhhhhh (stretch).

Realy i dont think an extension cord on AC power wouldn't / couldn't ever form an induction coil because the power is moving both ways.

A EE (electrical engineer) may be able to explain it better for us.

 

[Mike662]

I don't think the danger with coiled cords and induction is likely to happen. I think the danger may come from enclosed cord reels, especially if overloaded or thinner gauge wire. Any cord in that condition would heat up, and having one all coiled up inside an enclosed area would magnify that. I have one of the HF hanging cord reels, and if I am going to be using it with anything that draws a lot of current for a long time, I unwind the cord more than necessary to prevent this.

Even this is probably overblown, but it's a simple thing to do and always better safe than sorry.

 

[mrb]

there is no heating effect from induction with an extension cord since the current is flowing in both directions and canceles eachother out. a heavily loaded extension cord can get quite hot when coiled up but its a stretch to start a fire with one. a long time ago we did a test with 100ft 16ga ext cord tightly coiled with 1000w load on it. after a few hours the cord got quite hot but didnt melt.

 

[Ohio Auto]

My #1 rule for a shop/garage.....absolutely NO trouble lights using regular incandescent light bulbs.

Fluorescent bulbs only in a sealed head are the only trouble lights I will use.

Service station across the street from mine went up in flames because a few drops of gas hit the light bulb on one of his trouble lights.

 

[Tom Hintz]

I also have been fortunate enough to not have had a fire and I plan on keeping it that way. However, a few years back while researching a woodworking book that I wrote I talked with several fire department folks and found out a few interesting things.
First, they have never seen a dust explosion in a home shop despite there being lots of fear over them. They do see many fires caused by combustible dust accumulating near an often unseen ignition source like a hot water heater or furnace.
Another point is that they have found several burnt up fire extinguishers that were put at the spot where the owner thought a fire might start. they were right but when the fire started, they couldn't get to the extinguisher anymore. their advice is to put a big fire extinguisher right by the door that lets you out and then go out and call them rather than fight any fire that is even questionably large. Sometimes logic isn't so logical.

 

[nehog]

It is based on coil induction ( like making a magnet by wrapping wire around a nail)

In theory you may be able to try to apply it to winding an extension cord, but its a sstttttrrrrrrreeeeetttccchhhhhh (stretch).

Realy i dont think an extension cord on AC power wouldn't / couldn't ever form an induction coil because the power is moving both ways.

A EE (electrical engineer) may be able to explain it better for us.

(well, I see we basically agree, so here's more information...)

Humm, I'm an EE which is why I asked. There is no basis for a coiled extension cord generating inductive heating. Just like one can't clamp on a clamp-on amp meter to an extension cord (the magnetic potential cancels itself out because of the multiple conductors) there is virtually no magnetic effect from a coiled extension cord.

That is why I asked for a reference...

There is a reason for not tightly coiling an extension cord, but it has nothing to do with inductive heating--it has everything to do with current heating and dissipation of said heat. Tightly coiled doesn't allow air flow over an overloaded extension cord and that can build up heat on inner coils of the wire, leading to insulation failure. However, even this is rare--you have to substantially overload the cord to get this effect.

Extension cord overloads usually result in failures at the connectors, not the center of the cord... If an extension cord connector (either one) feels warm, you are overloading it, or have a bad outlet/connection at the outlet.

 

[fflintstone]

For what its worth, in the ashes of my former shed are the remains of 3 fire extinguishers.

I recommend mounting them on the wall near the exits and sources of combustion. It might even be wise to drill with an ashcan a few papers and a real fire extinguisher.


I will not comment further until the settlement.