All USA tool manufacturing going overseas?

[justanengineer]

That article gave me a good chuckle. I personally dont foresee industry ever coming back to this country until we get some good leadership in Washington who understands the power this country truly has, instead of apologizing for our success like the current administration keeps doing. Personally I think it will be a long time before the wages of China catch up to the US as evidenced by the amount of the countryside that still does not even have electricity.

Regarding "skilled white collar labor," I know many who have acqured a 4 year degree and are "white collar." Personally I believe <1% of them to be truly skilled at anything other than wasting oxygen.

 

[Daddy_Rabbit]

The difference is the Japanese were building their own products from their own ideas ...

someone should visit a library ....

 

[Wrenches of Death]

The country to be worried about with regards to vehicles is India, Tata and Mahindra are definently a threat.

I forgot about them. There are a lot of Mahindras around here.

Farm and utility tractor manufacturing is another example of a high quality product that was once produced here that was shipped all over the globe.

That industry disappeared from here several decades ago. The new IH that I bought back in 1977 was built in Chicago. In 2006, I decided that it was time for a new tractor. The choices I had was Japan, India, or Mexico. I went with a Kubota.

One of the things I noticed about it was that the wheels and tires on it were US built. I suspect that that was done to be able to ship it over here as an incomplete item to probably save some tariff or tax or something similar.

Twenty years ago, there were probably a bunch of codgers sitting around discussing when the tractor industry was going to come back to US shores.

It didn't.

WoD

 

[oldtools]

Tesla Motors took a defunct platform and a closed NUMMI factory, in California, and, as well as having an, admittedly small run, car in production, has since sold both physical product and IP licensing to Daimler and Toyota.

BYD, meanwhile, has lost 2/3 of its share value in a year with its e6 project running two years late.

Both Mercedes and Toyota own part of Tesla. BYD use their own battery technology, while Tesla use Panasonic (Japanese) and the Chevy Volt use LG (Korean) Lithium-Ion batteries. In fact, Korea, Japan, and China make 98% of the world Lithium-Ion batteries.

http://lithiuminvestingnews.com/3191/korea-competing-with-japan-in-lithium-battery-technology/

 

[Wrenches of Death]

someone should visit a library ....

Agreed. A buddy of mine bought a new Toyota Land Cruiser back in the 1970's. The engine was an obvious copy of the inline 6 Chevrolet engine. No question about it. If I remember right, the displacement and horsepower rating were even the same as the 250 Chevrolet.

They started out copying others. Then they started tweaking on the designs of others. Then they started designing their own stuff. The same cycle will be followed with the Chinese.

They are a very clever and very industrious people. The rest of the world USED to say that about us.

WoD

 

[oldtools]

The difference is the Japanese were building their own products from their own ideas, the chinese are not willing to do the same. They would rather copy another design outright because you save that R&D cost. Only time will tell if this is sustainable, but it certainly makes exporting cars difficult when you dont own the IP's your utilizing.

The country to be worried about with regards to vehicles is India, Tata and Mahindra are definently a threat.

Rather than making an uneducated statement about the Chinese lacking ability to come up anything, you should go educated yourself some more. I hope you are smart enough to use Google. There are some unscrupolous Chinese companies that will infringe on other patents, but the Chinese also develope alot of their own technologies. US companies get sue all the times for patent infringement.

 

[oldtools]

Agreed. A buddy of mine bought a new Toyota Land Cruiser back in the 1970's. The engine was an obvious copy of the inline 6 Chevrolet engine. No question about it. If I remember right, the displacement and horsepower rating were even the same as the 250 Chevrolet.

They started out copying others. Then they started tweaking on the designs of others. Then they started designing their own stuff. The same cycle will be followed with the Chinese.

They are a very clever and very industrious people. The rest of the world USED to say that about us.

WoD

That what the US did to captured German V2 rocket after WW2. Northrop Gruman sent engineers to study the German HO 229 (WW2 vintage) to help them develope the B2 stealth bomber.

 

[JohnFreeman]

Why would anyone want to manufacture anything here today when they can do it elsewhere for pennies on our next to worthless dollar?


WoD

Transportation costs?

 

[JohnFreeman]

There are some unscrupolous Chinese companies that will infringe on other patents, but the Chinese also develope alot of their own technologies. US companies get sue all the times for patent infringement.

The difference is, nobody in China gets sued all the time for patent infringement.

I work for a large multinational company headquartered in Europe. We'll never send our high tech products to be built in China as it's known they'll be immediately stolen and the intellectual property lost.

China builds China stuff, and commodities, and little else for us.

 

[Wrenches of Death]

Transportation costs?

I would have thought the same, but I remember reading somewhere that shipping by ship is the most efficient and least expensive method on the planet. The second was rail.

WoD

 

[Wrenches of Death]

We'll never send our high tech products to be built in China as it's known they'll be immediately stolen and the intellectual property lost.

You can bet on it! I read an article about industrial espionage a few years ago and it is very much alive and well. The numbers were surprising. Actually, scary would be a more appropriate description.

WoD

 

[Hurricane_Whisperer]

As factories become more automated and computerized, skilled labor becomes less of an issue. Things that were previously done by hand can now be done by computerized machines and it only takes a relatively low skilled operator to make sure the machines do what they are supposed to do. Technicians are being replaced by operators. Huge investments in automation allow for this to happen, hence the huge jump in productivity of American workers. What they don't tell you is that this sort of productivity costs jobs.

They don't tell you that productivity costs jobs because that is not true.

In 1800 there were about 1 billion people in the world, about 1920 there were 2 billion, about 1960, 3 billion, about 2000 6 billion.

In 1800, most of the population was involved in farming or ranching.

Now very few people farm or ranch but we have plenty to eat. We also have a higher standard of living. This has happened because human employment has become much more diversified than swinging a sickle.

 

[Daddy_Rabbit]

I work for a large multinational company headquartered in Europe. We'll never send our high tech products to be built in China as it's known they'll be immediately stolen and the intellectual property lost.

you're fooling no one but yourself if you truly believe a product needs to be actually sent to the Chinese mainland in order for the Chines to reverse-engineer your product.

 

[Bull]

That what the US did to captured German V2 rocket after WW2. Northrop Gruman sent engineers to study the German HO 229 (WW2 vintage) to help them develope the B2 stealth bomber.

The Nazis had some absolutely sick aircraft that were way, way ahead of their time. That one you pictured there is probably my favorite.

 

[A_Pmech]

That what the US did to captured German V2 rocket after WW2. Northrop Gruman sent engineers to study the German HO 229 (WW2 vintage) to help them develope the B2 stealth bomber.

Oldtools,

Where did you find this photo? Is there a link you can direct me to?

Thanks!

 

[Sancho]

Rather than making an uneducated statement about the Chinese lacking ability to come up anything, you should go educated yourself some more. I hope you are smart enough to use Google. There are some unscrupolous Chinese companies that will infringe on other patents, but the Chinese also develope alot of their own technologies. US companies get sue all the times for patent infringement.

I was merely offering my opinion with respect to the first hand exp. I have had over there, please forgive me.

I'd love to see the picture link as well, some of the concepts that got to proto stage were decades ahead.

In short I think Im With the majority, the odds of it ever coming back are pretty thin.

Cant find the link but I thought NG built that 229 stealth from prints and period materials as a proof of concept only a few years ago?

 

[american lockpicker]

Oldtools,

Where did you find this photo? Is there a link you can direct me to?

Thanks!

I seen different pics of that in teh old WW2 Time Life books.

 

[oldtools]

Oldtools,

Where did you find this photo? Is there a link you can direct me to?

Thanks!

Northrop Grumman study the last surviving HO-229, then they re-construct a full scale model for testing and surprise to find out how stealthy it is.

http://newnfo.blogspot.com/2009/07/nazi-stealth-planes.html

During WW2, the German are way ahead of everybody in their innovation. It is amazing how much ingenious ideas they developed while fighting a war. Below are just a tiny fraction of the stuff they came up with that are decades ahead of anybody. They developed forward swept wing (He-162D). The US study forward swept wing (X-29) much later. They developed variable swing wing (Me-P1101). US made an exact copy (Bell X-5) to study the technology. They developed scissor wing (Me-P1109 and BV-P-202). US experimental version is the DA-1. The wing rotate like a scissor. My favorite is the Triebflugeljager. It has rotating blades about its body centerline and are driven by scramjet or rocket attached to the blade outer tip. The US Roton is very similar to it though Roton use the rotary blades for descending only. The German also pioneered wire-guided/radio controlled bomb/missile.

 

[oldtools]

I was merely offering my opinion with respect to the first hand exp. I have had over there, please forgive me.

I'd love to see the picture link as well, some of the concepts that got to proto stage were decades ahead.

In short I think Im With the majority, the odds of it ever coming back are pretty thin.

Cant find the link but I thought NG built that 229 stealth from prints and period materials as a proof of concept only a few years ago?

If I mis-understood or mis-read your intention, then my apology as well.

 

[Scavenger]

http://finance.yahoo.com/career-work/article/112693/help-wanted-factory-floor-wsj