timtim2008
Well-known member
Do automotive Lifts fail often?
(Or are improper operation more to blame)
Do automotive Lifts fail often?
- Thread starter timtim2008
- Start date
Do automotive Lifts fail often?
(Or are improper operation more to blame)
jayoldschool
Well-known member
That lift didn't fail, the person operating it did.
Im sure like any mechanical/hydraulic device they can fail, but most of the pics I see are operator error.
One of the best safety habits I learned from HS auto shop was to lift the car about 6" and give it a good shove, up/down and sideways. It shouldn't move. You would be amazed at how much force/leverage can be applied with a breakerbar or prybar while you are under there.
-Jeff
One of the best safety habits I learned from HS auto shop was to lift the car about 6" and give it a good shove, up/down and sideways. It shouldn't move. You would be amazed at how much force/leverage can be applied with a breakerbar or prybar while you are under there.
-Jeff
CarCrafter
Well-known member
lift failures are very rare. Lift user errors less so. There are lots of images to be found of cars nose in, *** in right side down left side down or flat after falling off a lift. I have seen 2 very close calls both from user error. The mechanical failures I see in the shops are little stuff like jammed buttons or broken arm locks.
Wrenches of Death
Well-known member
An old geezer showed me this when I first started wrenching and I did this for decades. In all of those years, I never had anything "shift" while I was under it.
It's a damn good safety tip.
WoD
Wrenches of Death
Well-known member
With the old in ground pneumatic over hydraulic racks, when they'd get some age on them, they could leak down over the course of the evening.
The classic "operator error" was leaving either a transmission jack or a five foot jack stand under the vehicle.
Surprise!
The next there would be a new topic of discussion over coffee and smokes.
WoD
SpiderGearsMan
Banned
had a challenger lift break the chain , truck went PLOP
G1GRANDEUR
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2009
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When I worked at the shop, level cable snapped. It was due to poor check-up schedule.
aussiek2000
Well-known member
The only thing we have had break is the release cable and the power button, which took out the bed side of a truck.
this is common. We had a mechanic drop the car while not looking and crush his new Mac roll around. The car in the next bay was running and loud and this covered the sound until the roll around was abut 6 niches shorter. The roll round oil and coolant drains are fair game for vertical reductions too. The bowls end up looking like 1/2 of a torque converter.With the old in ground pneumatic over hydraulic racks, when they'd get some age on them, they could leak down over the course of the evening.
The classic "operator error" was leaving either a transmission jack or a five foot jack stand under the vehicle.
Surprise!
The next there would be a new topic of discussion over coffee and smokes.
WoD
What happened to the safety locks?!
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GoBlue
Well-known member
I purchased 7 of the Rotarys like the one pictured above about 10 years ago. I can promise you that a hoist failure did not cause that. They are fairly simple to use but accedents can and do happen due to careless operators. I had a tech destory the rocker on a buick with one by setting three of four arms and lifting away. Only time we have ever had an issue. Drive on hoists are a whole nuther ball game! I have seen a couple of idots drive cars off of those bad boys!
LawnDart79
Well-known member
I've personally only witnessed one car fall off a lift. It was a two-post above ground lift (like the one in the OPs picture) and the arm locks were not working. lift reached the top if it's travel, car shifted, lift arm moved, and down she went nose first. If the lift were maintained properly, this incident probably wouldn't have happened.
I will say it was pretty cool to see and made lots of noise.
Fortunately, nobody was hurt
I will say it was pretty cool to see and made lots of noise.
Fortunately, nobody was hurt
Ive seen 3 rotary lifts fail in the past 2 years. 2 in gound and 1 four post.
The 2 in grounds rusted out. The plastic pocket didnt leak, but condensation pooled up. essentially the 2 rams busted through the bottom of the posts. The new ones that were installed were more stout in that same area. The 2 big posts that you actually see are not the lifting rams, the posts are secured into a sleeve that keeps the rams vertical. The rams push the posts up.
The four post broke a cable. Im sure they have a life cycle, but how do you track that in a commercial shop?
I have also seen a user error. He was installing an engine. Had it low with a jack under the trans, rocking the engine to get it bolted up. One of the arms must have shifted because there was no weight on it. When he raised it all the way back up, the vehicle shifted, the arm came out and down she went.
It is very important to make sure the safety locks work.
The 2 in grounds rusted out. The plastic pocket didnt leak, but condensation pooled up. essentially the 2 rams busted through the bottom of the posts. The new ones that were installed were more stout in that same area. The 2 big posts that you actually see are not the lifting rams, the posts are secured into a sleeve that keeps the rams vertical. The rams push the posts up.
The four post broke a cable. Im sure they have a life cycle, but how do you track that in a commercial shop?
I have also seen a user error. He was installing an engine. Had it low with a jack under the trans, rocking the engine to get it bolted up. One of the arms must have shifted because there was no weight on it. When he raised it all the way back up, the vehicle shifted, the arm came out and down she went.
It is very important to make sure the safety locks work.
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GoBlue
Well-known member
WOW!!! Hope no one was hurt or worse!
Wrenches of Death
Well-known member
wafrederick
Well-known member
I always do a double check,walk around to see if the arms are in the right spot.I don't like it,lower the vehicle down and reset the arms.Some GMs mainly Buick Lesabres and Park Avenues,Oldsmobile 98s and Delta 88s and Pontiac Bonnevilles have to watch out where you put the arms at.The rockers rust out there.
oilslick
Well-known member
I thoroughly enjoy setting the rear arms on some peoples rusted rockers, living on the edge!!
High school auto shop didn't like anything left in the air, so before lunch everything was lowered. Teacher (not the shop teacher, one who owned the car) came in the shop, saw the car was down and drove it to lunch and parked it "about" in the same spot. After lunch they didn't recheck arms before lifting and put a lift pad into the gas tank.
Friends shop just had 3 new Bend Paks installed, next day something was binding and left a vintage Porsche six feet in the air. Installer "A team" got sent out and got it down and the lift sorted out ok though.
Friends shop just had 3 new Bend Paks installed, next day something was binding and left a vintage Porsche six feet in the air. Installer "A team" got sent out and got it down and the lift sorted out ok though.
senlow
Well-known member
Easy. Just look at the cables. Almost never will every strand of a cable fail at once. When you see wear; replace them.
The lift was inspected the week before by an outside company that is in the business of fixing our lifts and selling us parts. It showed no signs. I will note that when it broke, it snapped like a whip, then you heard the vehicle shift onto the locks. So either they all went at once, or they they all failed within a short period of time.
I noticed the front of the lift was lifting a little lower than the rear and the alignment specs were way out of whack when not on the locks. Yes the reading will be out anytime you are not on the locks, but these were way out. Of course it wasnt until after the cable broke that I put 2 and 2 together.
mtkst19
Well-known member
always do the shake test. when i started out in autos i worked in a salvage yard stripping cars-- way stuff was hit/mangled you may only have 3 arms physically touching the unibody/frame. so you need to know how to balance the load properly.
worse was getting a car that had a 1/4 cut out of it prior to being dismantled in the building, as you would end up stacking batteries or weight to offset the difference when you pulled the drive train or even ratchet strap the car down to the rack arms.
even w/. all the mangled **** i had stripped in my dismantle days the only lift failure i had was when i was doing a clutch in a porsche 911 turbo. had everything back together when the ram decided it wanted to blow out. thankfully car was set on the locks. equipment guy came out and got it down no issue, rebuilt our ram and got us back and running in less than a day.
i always try to work off the locks.
worse was getting a car that had a 1/4 cut out of it prior to being dismantled in the building, as you would end up stacking batteries or weight to offset the difference when you pulled the drive train or even ratchet strap the car down to the rack arms.
even w/. all the mangled **** i had stripped in my dismantle days the only lift failure i had was when i was doing a clutch in a porsche 911 turbo. had everything back together when the ram decided it wanted to blow out. thankfully car was set on the locks. equipment guy came out and got it down no issue, rebuilt our ram and got us back and running in less than a day.
i always try to work off the locks.
countryroad82
Well-known member
i always try to work off the locks.
mtkst19 is offline Report Post Reply With Quote
I always do the shake test and when I get the vehicle close to the level I want it I set it down on the locks. I also like to use stands front and rear for quad cab long bed trucks (you know anything longer than a whores dream where you can get enough leverage to shake the thing just taking the oil plug out). I never have had a lift fail but I have seen plenty of operator error. One time somebody moved my cart just barely under a truck so they could get by an aisle and I didn't notice it and promptly lowered the back wheel on the edge of my cart, I caught it before major damage was done but there is a new rule at the shop, if I am working on something don't touch anything and don't bother me.
mtkst19 is offline Report Post Reply With Quote
I always do the shake test and when I get the vehicle close to the level I want it I set it down on the locks. I also like to use stands front and rear for quad cab long bed trucks (you know anything longer than a whores dream where you can get enough leverage to shake the thing just taking the oil plug out). I never have had a lift fail but I have seen plenty of operator error. One time somebody moved my cart just barely under a truck so they could get by an aisle and I didn't notice it and promptly lowered the back wheel on the edge of my cart, I caught it before major damage was done but there is a new rule at the shop, if I am working on something don't touch anything and don't bother me.
bob ny
Well-known member
years ago a friend of mine bought a new Chevy pick up /when he took it back for a 5000 mile check up it (fell) off the lift. he got another new truck in exchange and that one was a real lemon( IT ENDED UP WITH A SHORT IN THE WIRING AND BURNT TO THE GROUND IN HIS DRIVWAY)he never bought another Chevy bob w.
Damian
Well-known member
Choosing your lift points on a vehicle wisely is the key to avoid failures. I never use the rocker lift points until I absolutely have to. If they're rusted out, you're risking a failure or at the very least ripping the fender off. I always look for a solid piece of frame to put the lift arm, even if it means rolling around on the ground getting it to reach. I don't care, I want a solid lift point and will go wherever I need to on the car to get it. This practice has gotten me through 15 years of lifting thousands of cars, and never having one problem.
Another big issue that causes failures (on the operators part) is balancing the car correctly on a lift. This is a big issue, especially with bigger/heavier trucks. If the car's weight is shifted too far forward or backward, you're risking a problem. Being aware of the vehicles weight distribution that you're working on helps out a lot. Engine location, solid axle, IRS, rear mounted trans, etc etc etc....All those play a factor in lift placement. I've seen idiots put a Honda on the lift and have 3/4 of the car sticking out the front, and I've seen idiots take a solid axle or IRS car and have 3/4 of it stick out the back. Cars like the C5/C6 Corvettes with a rear mounted trans also need special consideration when lifting since the car is nearly a perfect 50/50 weight car.
As other's have said, most failures like this is the operator. I've personally never seen a 2-post Rotary failure that wasn't the operators fault.
Another big issue that causes failures (on the operators part) is balancing the car correctly on a lift. This is a big issue, especially with bigger/heavier trucks. If the car's weight is shifted too far forward or backward, you're risking a problem. Being aware of the vehicles weight distribution that you're working on helps out a lot. Engine location, solid axle, IRS, rear mounted trans, etc etc etc....All those play a factor in lift placement. I've seen idiots put a Honda on the lift and have 3/4 of the car sticking out the front, and I've seen idiots take a solid axle or IRS car and have 3/4 of it stick out the back. Cars like the C5/C6 Corvettes with a rear mounted trans also need special consideration when lifting since the car is nearly a perfect 50/50 weight car.
As other's have said, most failures like this is the operator. I've personally never seen a 2-post Rotary failure that wasn't the operators fault.
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PLEASE GUYS, ALWAYS WORK WITH THE LOAD ON THE LOCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The highest part of your body is your head, which is attached to your spine. Your spine can't withstand even a little compression. At best you'll be paralyzed. worst, dead.
I saw a hoist chain fail. There was no warning. The chain whipped around and missed a guy's head by millimeters. He would have been killed, no question. Nobody was under the hoist. If I had been standing under it in any number of places, I'd have been killed.
Just think about it. NO JOB IS WORTH YOUR LIFE. The safety locks are there for a reason. Most people think they are there to arrest a fall. WRONG. They will do that, just like the crumple zone on a car will decelerate the vehicle with minimal damage to the passenger compartment. Doesn't mean you don't need your seat belt in place.
The highest part of your body is your head, which is attached to your spine. Your spine can't withstand even a little compression. At best you'll be paralyzed. worst, dead.
I saw a hoist chain fail. There was no warning. The chain whipped around and missed a guy's head by millimeters. He would have been killed, no question. Nobody was under the hoist. If I had been standing under it in any number of places, I'd have been killed.
Just think about it. NO JOB IS WORTH YOUR LIFE. The safety locks are there for a reason. Most people think they are there to arrest a fall. WRONG. They will do that, just like the crumple zone on a car will decelerate the vehicle with minimal damage to the passenger compartment. Doesn't mean you don't need your seat belt in place.
jayoldschool
Well-known member
You mean there are people that DON'T work on the locks? That is crazy. Raise the car, release the locks, drop the car on the locks. Simple...
SpiderGearsMan
Banned
BigAl62
Well-known member
I've been in shops where lifts have failed - 1 cable snapped (was less than 6 months old and almost dropped an almost new Lincoln Town Car), 1 hydraulic hose blew (luckily the car was on the way down) and seen at least 5 cars fall off lifts due to improper lifting. You never know when something is going to happen, just double check your lift points and make sure the vehicle doesn't rock and check your lift at least once a week (I always do a visual inspection at the beginning of the work week) and be aware of the people around you - they may not be as vigilant as you. In other words - cover your own *** because no one else will!
wow, did that recently happen? looks like it was uploaded on you tube today
Do automotive Lifts fail often?
(Or are improper operation more to blame)
i am going to have to say ,this one looks like operator error to me.
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CarCrafter
Well-known member
The sad part is, that vintage Exploders are pretty dam easy to find lift points for and there aren't even running boards on this this thing!!!
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jsaw
Well-known member
The first lift failure I saw was at school. We were learning lift safety. At the end of class, one of the hydraulic lines blew and the car came down slowly onto the safety latches.
I had hydraulic hose blow in My midrise lift once.
I had a lift arm slip out from under a truck one time. The rear quarters had to be repaired.
Have seen a couple cars fall due to operator error.
I had hydraulic hose blow in My midrise lift once.
I had a lift arm slip out from under a truck one time. The rear quarters had to be repaired.
Have seen a couple cars fall due to operator error.
Gbart14
Member
Mohawk local distributor told me the exact same thing my son told me when lifting with my new A7 Mohawk, lift just off the floor and like the guy above said, "give it a good shake up and down to make sure it is sound". My son is US Army trained in mechanics and that is the first thing they teach!!