Will Snap-on move production to China?

[danski0224]

Well, the Craftsman hand tools that I have bought recently were still made here in the good old USA. Most of the "Craftsman" branded hand tools I looked at all said "USA" on the packaging.

I know the country of origin rules are sneaky, but that is all I have available to me when I shop. I always read the packaging, and sometimes I can't find the country of origin anywhere.

I'm sure the laser engraving and powdered metal construction of Craftsman sockets are cost cutting moves to keep production in the USA.

I am defining Craftsman hand tools as those tools without batteries, cords or air as a power source (that eliminates a lot of stuff with the Craftsman logo on it). I don't think their impact sockets are US made, either.

 

[danski0224]

Yes hand tools, i think they are made by stanley not 100 percent sure though.

Well, in this case I am glad I do not live in Canada.

Hand tools here are still Made in USA (at least as indicated on the packaging).

 

[wilbilt]

Well, in this case I am glad I do not live in Canada.

Hand tools here are still Made in USA (at least as indicated on the packaging).

It pays to check carefully. About a year ago, I was looking at a Craftsman Professional pliers set in the store. Made in China.

I always triple-check if I can't see "USA" stamped on the tool.

 

[plinker]

You will never see that. That is the biggest problem. Manufacturers don't have to label the product with the country of origin...only the packaging.

Here's a good example; I got a set of Williams pollished inch stubby wrenches for Christmas, box says made in taiwan
The wrenches themselves arent marked with taiwan (The satin finished metric stubbys I bought are USA though).

My Napa pro compound joint pliers are "made in china to Danaher specs."
The bolt grip puller I also bought from Napa is "made in taiwan to Danaher specs."

I'm not saying these are bad quality tools, in fact pretty good. But for the price and the name brand (that your paying for) you'd think they would be USA made. And for as often as I need a bolt grip puller it doesnt make sense to buy a snap-on one.

I have tried to only buy tools made here, but cost for certain things makes it almost impossible.

Its all about $$$$$$$$$$.

 

[george4]

Just to further stir the pot. I have an older Cman 3/8 ratchet (round head) made in Taiwan and a newer 3/8 Cman (raised panel), made in the USA. They both work fine but the Taiwan has a smoother ratchet and the finish is a lot better.

 

[jay50]

Just to further stir the pot. I have an older Cman 3/8 ratchet (round head) made in Taiwan and a newer 3/8 Cman (raised panel), made in the USA. They both work fine but the Taiwan has a smoother ratchet and the finish is a lot better.

An example that Asian built does not always mean inferior quality (unless it is a Horror Freight POS tool).....

 

[paramudduck]

I still have a bunch of those Taiwan Craftsman ratchets and sockets around here. They have held up surprisingly well over the past 20 or so years.

 

[Fedwrench]

I guess that's it. There are two Chinas as far as I am concerned when it comes to tools. There's the Peoples' Republic of China that makes those quality Harbor Freight tools and countless other disposable products. Then there is Taiwan which as gotten alot better at making tools with alot of Stanley/Mac and Gearwrench stuff. It's up to the individual to buy what he can afford, likes, or needs. Given the almost 100 year history of US tool makers that paralleled automakers, I hate to see the downfall of another American industry. I'm not saying that all imported tools ****. I'm saying that the decline of the American tool industry is kind of like watching an old car get crushed at the salvage yard, it's inevitable but, still hurts.

 

[SpiderGearsMan]

taiwan is good friends with the USA, we got their backs , if snap on moved the jobs to china , imagine the profit level

 

[paramudduck]

Those taiwan Craftsmen are fun to have around. Get a real Craftsman fanatic and mention that they are Taiwanese . The young one's go nuts claiming you are crazy Craftsman hand tools were never made overseas. Then when they are going real good hand them one.

 

[Uncle Buck]

This thread has become filled with unintentional hilarity. "Snap on has a plant in China." "OMG, I'll never buy from them again, all of their tools must be imported!" "Why I'll bet they even lie on their packaging about where their tools are made, and if you don't believe that you are blinded by brand adoration!"

So every product sold anywhere in the world by Snap on must be made in the USA? We are ever so right to insist upon American made tools here but the Chinese simply must not be allowed to get Snap on tools made in their country?

Can't get much more American than that I suppose.

I guess I did not actually get the point of where you were going with this; and for that matter regardless where new Snap-on tools are made it will have no impact on me since I have not bought anything new from Snap-on in at least 10 years. My point is this, for guys that think like I do they will not pay the top dollar prices for tools made across the pond. To my way of thinking I will get better quality tools used than I would buying the import stuff new! It simply does not matter who's name is on the tool, hopefully there will always be at least a couple of domestic tool manufacturers left to turn to!

 

[GT crew]

hholmberg; sometimes I do not know where I am going with something until it gets posted...earlier I meant to write: Buy American, the job you save may be an illegal immigrant's!

I have bought maybe 80 Snappy tools over the past 30 years, and most of them were not new. I like them, but cannot justify the cost of new ones for the amount of wrenching I do. I do respect Snap-on for making the effort to keep as many of the tools as possible they sell in the USA made in the USA, it ranks right up there with the defenders of the Alamo when all things are considered. But I am not so naive as to believe that it will always be so, it will not be cost effective for very much longer. I understand the sentiment here to buy American, and I agree with that. The trouble is that here we talk American tools through imported computers. The next forum over may insist on American guitars only while changing spark plugs with dollar store Chinese wrenches. And on it goes. Unless Americans unilaterally insist on domestic production of the goods they purchase, we are merely pockets of resistance to the wave of imports. And aside from the obvious imports, it is becoming harder to tell who really make what anymore. I bought a Chrysler product and later found out it was assembled in Mexico. (I guess I did not read the packaging very carefully) In the end a person is best served by buying the best product they can afford.

 

[Uncle Buck]

hholmberg; sometimes I do not know where I am going with something until it gets posted...earlier I meant to write: Buy American, the job you save may be an illegal immigrant's!

I have bought maybe 80 Snappy tools over the past 30 years, and most of them were not new. I like them, but cannot justify the cost of new ones for the amount of wrenching I do. I do respect Snap-on for making the effort to keep as many of the tools as possible they sell in the USA made in the USA, it ranks right up there with the defenders of the Alamo when all things are considered. But I am not so naive as to believe that it will always be so, it will not be cost effective for very much longer. I understand the sentiment here to buy American, and I agree with that. The trouble is that here we talk American tools through imported computers. The next forum over may insist on American guitars only while changing spark plugs with dollar store Chinese wrenches. And on it goes. Unless Americans unilaterally insist on domestic production of the goods they purchase, we are merely pockets of resistance to the wave of imports. And aside from the obvious imports, it is becoming harder to tell who really make what anymore. I bought a Chrysler product and later found out it was assembled in Mexico. (I guess I did not read the packaging very carefully) In the end a person is best served by buying the best product they can afford.

I could not agree more with your statements! I hate to sound the pessimist but on the whole the buy American fight was lost many years ago! Pick your product and someone can poke a hole in it, beginning with your clothes! Not too many clothes produced domestically these days; oh yea a few items here and there but for the most part textiles is gone, so are all the old steel mills of days gone by! The list goes on and on, yup the keep it American bus left a long time ago!

 

[Rabbit]

Americans don't care where it's made. Americans only care how cheap they can buy it.

 

[Merkava_4]

But I am not so naive as to believe that it will always be so, it will not be cost effective for very much longer. I understand the sentiment here to buy American, and I agree with that.

I don't think of myself as being naive; I think of myself as being stubborn; a stubborn proud patriot who insists on his tools being made in the USA.

The trouble is that here we talk American tools through imported computers. The next forum over may insist on American guitars only while changing spark plugs with dollar store Chinese wrenches.

I understand your point precisely, since I'm writing this on an Apple computer made in Taiwan, but in my mind, foreign made computers don't cross that red line (although I very much wish this computer was made in USA) like foreign made tools do. We all have our limits to our strong convictions; and for me, that limit is tools. When I buy a Snap-on tool, not only am I buying a quality product, I'm also buying the wonderful feeling of pride and patriotism that I feel for owning that tool.

And on it goes. Unless Americans unilaterally insist on domestic production of the goods they purchase, we are merely pockets of resistance to the wave of imports.

I like the way you put that because it nicely falls along the same lines as my way of thinking. We Americans that understand the importance of manufacturing goods in our own country are like an insurgency against an invasion force; and in this case, the invasion force is China; but I firmly believe that if we all pull together, we can send a strong message to the U.S. manufacturers saying that moving your production off shore can be detrimental to your survival as a business.

 

[Jononon]

When I buy a Snap-on tool, not only am I buying a quality product, I'm also buying the wonderful feeling of pride and patriotism that I feel for owning that tool.

But it's an illusion. You have to ignore their clearly stated corporate policy, and get into obfuscations like 'core tools', and arguing as to what a wrench is, to convince yourself they're not engaged in a process of ever increasing offshoring.

I firmly believe that if we all pull together, we can send a strong message to the U.S. manufacturers saying that moving your production off shore can be detrimental to your survival as a business.

I've a feeling the war was lost years ago, as 25% of Chinese exports are from US owned manufacturers, but if you want to continue the battle you need to look not to Snap-on, but to the likes of Wright, who make every product they sell in Barberton OH.

 

[milkovich]

I guess that's it. There are two Chinas as far as I am concerned when it comes to tools.

There are many chinas. It's up to the american distributor to specify the quality level. Consumers keep buying the lower priced lower quality goods and the buyer/distributor is in the business of supplying demand.

The current state of imported products is a direct reflection of the US consumer and their overwhelming disregard for product quality.

When you start specifying a higher quality product, you start getting price quotes that are similar to american manufacturers (of course without the added costs of labor but with the giant shipping bills).

IMO, the customer is best served by buying the best VALUE and by researching the manufacturer/supplier's history to make sure it's an ethically produced and distributed product.

I'm not naive enough to think my vote makes much of a difference in our democracy but I KNOW that every dollar I spend can change the world. A dollar is a tangible thing that cannot be hidden or denied (unlike many disputed ballots and petition signatures that get thrown away here in Ohio)

Where there's a demand, supply will find it. If it's an informed demand for ethically produced products with a high quality for a reasonable price (eg. all of us that post here), It's a matter of finding the supplier or the supplier finding us.

 

[SpiderGearsMan]

lots of americans actually think toyotas are good cars

 

[eschoendorff]

Americans don't care where it's made. Americans only care how cheap they can buy it.

Not this American. I will admit that buy non-American-made goods, but at least I try to buy American at every opportunity.

 

[shopforeman]

LOL!
Snap On might as well already be in China for all I care. I don't and won't have Snap Off tools in my toolbox.
Maybe they should move their entire operation to an emerging nation where outlaws similar to those who operated in the American old west are still common? That way the Snap On truck guys could where masks over their faces when they rob people and yet not appear out of place!

 

[Rabbit]

... When I buy a Snap-on tool, not only am I buying a quality product, I'm also buying the wonderful feeling of pride and patriotism that I feel for owning that tool.

It' called Marketing and you are a Marketing guy's *********.

"They" tell you what does and does not "feel good" in order to get more of your money and you buy into it hook, line, and sinker. Sad. sad, sad.

As for me, I don't require a certain brand of wrench, automobile or a blue jeans in order to validate my love of country and her citizens.

If I do decide to purchase a Snap On wrench, it will be because of the quality and/or convenience of the tool, not the marketing plan behind it.

 

[Kaydon]

I'll stick to 50 year old Craftsman and John Deere tools, for the record.

 

[eschoendorff]

It' called Marketing and you are a Marketing guy's *********.

"They" tell you what does and does not "feel good" in order to get more of your money and you buy into it hook, line, and sinker. Sad. sad, sad.

As for me, I don't require a certain brand of wrench, automobile or a blue jeans in order to validate my love of country and her citizens.

If I do decide to purchase a Snap On wrench, it will be because of the quality and/or convenience of the tool, not the marketing plan behind it.

A little dose of truth.

 

[GT crew]

If I do decide to purchase a Snap On wrench, it will be because of the quality and/or convenience of the tool, not the marketing plan behind it.

Amen to that. And I extend that thinking to every item considered for purchase. Now if only I had used the same criteria prior to marriage...

Snap-on was on the grassy knoll!

 

[krusty the clown]

It' called Marketing and you are a Marketing guy's *********.

"They" tell you what does and does not "feel good" in order to get more of your money and you buy into it hook, line, and sinker. Sad. sad, sad.

As for me, I don't require a certain brand of wrench, automobile or a blue jeans in order to validate my love of country and her citizens.

If I do decide to purchase a Snap On wrench, it will be because of the quality and/or convenience of the tool, not the marketing plan behind it.

hmmmm......while nobody can tell me what feels good or not i have to say thet i feel people who buy foreign vehicles are somewhat unamerican. one thing that really pisses me off is a harley davidson sticker on a japanese vehicle. wtf? the same goes for political stickers if they cared enough about america to support joe candidate why cant they care enough to support american manufacturing and american jobs?

 

[jay50]

Amen to that. And I extend that thinking to every item considered for purchase. Now if only I had used the same criteria prior to marriage...

Yeah, marriage, the down fall of many a young man because he was thinking from the wrong brain....

 

[Jononon]

"we will manufacture additional tools and equipment in Kunshan for the global market, as well as source low cost manufactured components to support existing operations in the more developed economies."

Snap-on, 2004.

Grassy knoll ? No
Outsourcing ? Yes.
Some of you living in a fool's paradise ? Hell yes.

 

[Bacchus]

Less expensive does not mean cheaper. If the same standards for quality are maintained in the design and manufacture of the product, it doesn't matter where it's made.

We've moved a lot of stuff to low-cost countries for various reasons. However, we always maintain the same quality of design and workmanship. We inspect everything before they even make it (300 piece samples) and then inspect everything as it comes in. Frankly, some fo the stuff coming in from China is better quality from a process control standpoint than we were getting from our local US suppliers.

I know that's not popular, but it is a reality. If you don't want to pay $150 for a single wrench, then the company has got to do something to lower costs to bring you the product at a price you can afford. You can bash the corporate executive salaries, but in most companies you could have those people work for free and it would have a limited impact on the total cost of the product. The top 10 execs at our company account for less than 1/2 of 1% of the cost of the product. Fire them all! Then what?

It's ugly, but it's reality. Tha big $100M CEO salary at some of the auto companies is something like 1/100th of 1% of the cost of the product.

 

[Franz©]

This thread is reminding me of the UNION MADE campaigns of the 60s. Seems like 99% of the people spouting off about Union Made quality back then were living in houses not built by Union tradesmen.

Now we got a whole bunch of folks blathering about Made in the USA and supporting US labor so jobs won't go offshore. Sorry but the US worker shows damn little incentive to either learn anything that will make him more valuable, or work these days.

 

[jay50]

Sorry but the US worker shows damn little incentive to either learn anything that will make him more valuable, or work these days.

Yeah, I think and agree with you on this.
I believe in letting the free market and skill of the worker drive the wage one can earn. If market/job outlook changes, time to go back to learning a new trade.
If you don't like what you're doing, time to go to something else.

 

[milkovich]

Yeah, I think and agree with you on this.
I believe in letting the free market and skill of the worker drive the wage one can earn. If market/job outlook changes, time to go back to learning a new trade.
If you don't like what you're doing, time to go to something else.

So you think our laborers should be competing against wage slaves in communist countries?

A product made in the US (superior or not) is also ethically produced. No one was beaten or raped if they bitched about their wages or needed a bathroom break. The designs and patents aren't stolen. The twisted chemicals used to chrome the tools weren't dumped into the Yangtze after they were used up. Our workers don't have three legged babies and live in grass huts and carry identification papers or are forced into involuntary abortions. We don't artificially de-value our currency to maintain an unfair trade balance.

I don't know what you guys do for a living but I hope it doesn't get obsoleted by some highly trained offshore IT person in India.

Don't get me confused with the "I only buy american" guys. I buy the best product I can afford, but I at least look at the country of origin and try not to support "the borg." I'll buy it even if its chinese but I try not to buy ****. All I'm saying is that the Chinese need to work on leveling the playing field and actually think about observing intellectual property rights, human rights, and generally accepted environmental standards. They'll come around eventually and prices will go up... and that's a good thing for all of us since in the end, you get what you pay for.

 

[george4]

We don't artificially de-value our currency to maintain an unfair trade balance.
.

What about the falling dollar?

 

[MarkH]

But countries that tie to the US dollar with a fixed rate do devaluate their currency instead of letting it rise. It is something that sounds good at first and causes a bulge in economic activity, but resources and labor have to be paid for.

The countries you have to buy from do not take your dollars at the value you gave for them, so there reaches a time if you do not let your currency float against the dollar you will not have enough to pay for the resources nor provide increases that go with inflation caused by not floating your currency. Almost all of the Asian countries have had to learn the hard way this way a freeway into a long hard recession. So it will be with China if the artificial advantage remains. I do not see the central bank being any smarter than the banks of the other Asian countries. On par with yes, smarter than no.

We let the market float our currency and do not do it artifically. Other countries may try to manipulate it as does the USA at times but there is not a central bank that goes the dollar is worth *** your currency and that is it for the next two years.

So the current devaluation is for our advantage.

 

[milkovich]

Were we a "manufacturing nation" like China engaged in "GDP-ism", it'd be great!

The truth is, we're the worlds largest goods and services consumer and it hardly helps the majority of us when the dollar is weak.

 

[Merkava_4]

It' called Marketing and you are a Marketing guy's *********.

"They" tell you what does and does not "feel good" in order to get more of your money and you buy into it hook, line, and sinker. Sad. sad, sad.

As for me, I don't require a certain brand of wrench, automobile or a blue jeans in order to validate my love of country and her citizens.

If I do decide to purchase a Snap On wrench, it will be because of the quality and/or convenience of the tool, not the marketing plan behind it.

My high appreciation of Snap-on tools does not stem from any kind of marketing scheme; if anything, I have a much higher, more valid and stronger opinion of the tool than the people who market them!

And another thing: I don't love my country because Snap-on tools are made here; I love Snap-on tools because they are made in my country!