I need a new heat pump

[thefairlaneman]

Last night in 14 degree temps my 20plus year old train blew out the cond blower motor and the defrost timer is also bad, Guy wants like 8 to 9 hundred to repair and I say no way. I should buy a new one but dont want to be a sucker...Any ides on what to buy . Its a self contained one unit outside total electric 3 ton...? thanks

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I have a 13 year old Trane, outside unit and inside air handler, heat pump, and it has not needed any service since new. They are good units, why not another one?

Charles

 

[rickairmedic]

I have a 13 year old Trane, outside unit and inside air handler, heat pump, and it has not needed any service since new. They are good units, why not another one?

Charles

They were good units yours is 13 years old they have made major changes to them since then most importantly they dont use the climatuff compressor anymore ( what made a trane a trane ) I would recomend Carrier products without question and if you have natural gas available now or even propane they have Hybrid ( dual fuel ) units available now in a package unit contact your nearest Carrier dealer and let me know what kind of prices they give you and get the model numbers and I can tell you how much they are padding their pockets .


Rick

 

[CraigFL]

Last time I had to buy parts for mine I got them here:

http://www.home-ac.com/catalog/Heat_Pump_Systems-25-1.html

I would buy a whole system from them if I needed one now. I had the parts installed by an independant serviceman. It cost me about 1/2 what a regular dealer would have charged.

 

[littlechub]

i install units for a living and to be honest trane/american standard is some of the best equipment available as far as im concerned. if your units 13 years old the new unit will be alot more effecient since technology has came a long way in 13 years.

 

[shocker51]

They were good units yours is 13 years old they have made major changes to them since then most importantly they dont use the climatuff compressor anymore ( what made a trane a trane ) I would recomend Carrier products without question and if you have natural gas available now or even propane they have Hybrid ( dual fuel ) units available now in a package unit contact your nearest Carrier dealer and let me know what kind of prices they give you and get the model numbers and I can tell you how much they are padding their pockets .


Rick

Hmm, Lets see Trane 3 ton R410a 4TTR4036A1000A Condenser, 4TXCB036BC3HCAAA Coil, TUE1B080A9361AB Furnace installed yesterday for $3395 in Fort Worth. Is this a reasonable price?

 

[rickairmedic]

Hmm, Lets see Trane 3 ton R410a 4TTR4036A1000A Condenser, 4TXCB036BC3HCAAA Coil, TUE1B080A9361AB Furnace installed yesterday for $3395 in Fort Worth. Is this a reasonable price?

Shocker thats a good price I will only say I have replaced alot of 5 year old and newer compressors in that brands units since about 1999 when they quit using the climatuff compressor and I wont go into further brand bashing other than to say I own my own company and cant afford to go replacing compressors all the time rather than being outt installing new PAYING units but yes a 410A system for under $3500 you did good .

Rick

 

[thefairlaneman]

Ive had some semi quotes for 6 to 9 k . All I need is a package heat pump/ac to sit down on the pad and blow in like the old one does. Guy today said I had a 2 1/2 ton trane made in 1987. Its beed a good one. I see units on the net for about 2 k plus shipping .gezzzzz I can reconnet the friggin wires cause I already have the power box etc. I not going to pay 3 thousand extra just to have it pluged in...Right now its cold and I know ALL of these so called great deal companys so far seem determined that Im going to pay 6 k or more to replace it. If the wife sorta wasnt wanting to wait( we do have back up heat) I believe having one shiped to me and even calling an electrician to check my hook up is about the only way not to be ripped...Charlotte isnt a place to find bargins it seems. I think they think everyone living on my side of town suppose to pay top buck.

 

[Vicegrip]

Condenser fan motor is right around $100. T stat another $80 and another $10 for a new capacitor using "or less" prices. Nether require HVAC tools or a PHD to replace. Fans like to rust to the motor shaft but you can get them apart. Cut the motor shaft off between the fan and dead motor. Heat the hub and push the motor shaft stub out of the fan hub to save the fan. Don't beat the shaft into a mushroom but push it through using a flat round punch. DIY and start shopping for a good price on a replacement. The prices you have posted for repair or replacement seem high.

 

[shocker51]

Say Rick would you perchance be a member of HVAC and friends with Mr Bill?

Robert

 

[rickairmedic]

Robert I cant say as I am I may have to google that .

Rick

Fairlaneman let me crunch some numbers tomorrow I dont do alot of package units so I dont have a price right in front of me . I will tell you package units are a little more involved than just plugging them in theres also the ductwork to contend with which 90% of the time doesnt match up and has to be reworked to connect to the new unit .

Rick

 

[jay50]

Shocker thats a good price I will only say I have replaced alot of 5 year old and newer compressors in that brands units since about 1999 when they quit using the climatuff compressor and I wont go into further brand bashing other than to say I own my own company and cant afford to go replacing compressors all the time rather than being outt installing new PAYING units but yes a 410A system for under $3500 you did good .

Rick

Rick, can you give some more details about the climatuff compressor and why (I assume) it was a superior compressor? Did Trane discontinue its use as cost cutting? What other manufacturers still use the climatuff compressor?
What is weakness in compressors in use other than climatuff?
'Just trying to get a little education in this area....

 

[thefairlaneman]

Thank you very much. From knowing very little about what I would be buying (without haviing the honest sales guy tell me what I needed to buy from him) I know now what I want, I want a 2-1/2 ton 13 seer 410a system total electric heat pump. Thats what I want to see the prices on and it has to be brand name product. Its alot like buying a car I guess.After I get the price I will find out what kinda labor charge he has.

 

[rickairmedic]

Ok Fairlaneman I have some numbers for you first is a Carrier 13 seer heat pump package unit model number 50sz-030-3 my sales price on that unit is $4400.00 and that is with a 40% profit margin included for labor ,materials,and permits . The second unit is a Carrier 13 seer Puron
( 410A ) unit same thing package heat pump unit model number 50xz-030-3 My price on that unit is $4813.00 again at a 40% profit margin so thats both unit installed prices . I will tell you the differance between 410A and R-22 right tnow is a mute pointt both units have the same SEER rating and I can tell you there will still be R-22 out there when either of these units is old and ready to be replaced . I will also ttell you I dont push high end equipment on my customers I sell them what will be the best bang for their buck . I would say if you are getting prices much higher than these then somebody is ttrying to rob you I can see a 50% prifit margin **** beyond that is a going overboard if you ask me my average is a 35 to 40% profit margin.Hope this helps .


Rick

 

[rickairmedic]

Rick, can you give some more details about the climatuff compressor and why (I assume) it was a superior compressor? Did Trane discontinue its use as cost cutting? What other manufacturers still use the climatuff compressor?
What is weakness in compressors in use other than climatuff?
'Just trying to get a little education in this area....

Jay the climatuff compressor was firstt developed by GE 30+ years ago and was one of the best HVAC compressors ever made . When GE got out of the residential HVAC market they sold all their pattents to Trane which included that compressor and the spinefin coil technology ( the outside coils that looked like porcu pines ) not the ones that look like a car radiator to that end Trane actually had one of those compressors in the Jersy plant for 25 or 30 years that they refered to as old frosty it had been running pretty much non stop for that entire time with a low refrigerant charge and also low voltage ( under 220 Volts ) it was completely encased in ice due to these conditions and yet kept running for all those years . I will say why they quit using that compressor is beyond me as it was what made a Trane a Trane . I will also add that Willis Carrier was the man who invented these neat machines that keep our homes cool today which means Carrier has been at it longer than anybody and yes I sell only Carrier products . Hope this answers your question let me know if you would like to know anything else .

Rick

 

[thefairlaneman]

I got a price today from the trane guy .He wants 8,118.73 to hook me up with a XR13h OVER/UNDER PKG WEATERON HEAT PUMP R22. 21/2 ton 13 seer..seems sorta high to me and I told him I would get back to him (if There was no way in he!! I could beat the price)Thanks for the info friends I dont feel like a carp takin the first stink bait I see....I found another brand that can ship it to me from florida in approx 5 days for approx 2500.(plus shipping ) Its even the newer 410a freon type . I will continue to do my homework,thanks again

 

[rickairmedic]

Fairlaneman takenote that Trane is almost double my price for a comparable Carrier and yall know my outlook on Tranes today . I think I need to move down to your area I could make a killing underbidding and still be bidding at a 50% or better profit margin.

Rick

 

[thefairlaneman]

Update. I had another contractor come (hes from a small town 20 miles away.) His price for the same trane unit and complete duct replacement is believe it or not is almost 4500 bucks cheaper.Same unit same work same garantee.......Im learning not to throw money way with help from places like this forum.. thanks again

 

[rickairmedic]

Fairlaneman Glad ya found an honest dealer down there .

Rick

 

[jay50]

Jay the climatuff compressor was firstt developed by GE 30+ years ago and was one of the best HVAC compressors ever made . When GE got out of the residential HVAC market they sold all their pattents to Trane which included that compressor and the spinefin coil technology ( the outside coils that looked like porcu pines ) not the ones that look like a car radiator to that end Trane actually had one of those compressors in the Jersy plant for 25 or 30 years that they refered to as old frosty it had been running pretty much non stop for that entire time with a low refrigerant charge and also low voltage ( under 220 Volts ) it was completely encased in ice due to these conditions and yet kept running for all those years . I will say why they quit using that compressor is beyond me as it was what made a Trane a Trane . I will also add that Willis Carrier was the man who invented these neat machines that keep our homes cool today which means Carrier has been at it longer than anybody and yes I sell only Carrier products . Hope this answers your question let me know if you would like to know anything else .

Rick

Rick, thanks for info.
I am assuming that Carrier does not use the climatuff compressor since Trane has patent, correct? What compressor is Trane using now, along with Carrier? What do you see as it's weaknesses?
Thanks, jay

 

[rickairmedic]

Jay Carrier uses both Copeland and Bristol compressors made to their specs both High quality compressors . I am honestly not sure what compressor Trane is using now I just know its not a climatuff and I have replaced a huge number of them in the last 8 years that were less than 10 years old . I would expect this out of a cheaper brand but not a brand that has built a rep as being one of the best . I will say though it is like pretty much everything else today if you get more than 5 years out of it you did good LOL.


Rick

 

[thefairlaneman]

UPDATE on my broken heat pump. I went to trane parts department AND THEY WOULDNT SELL ME A MOTOR. they said I had to be a contractor (price 240 bucks) I then went to an aftermarker appliance parts dealer and bought it for 168 bucks, Its now on my heatpump and its running great. Also found out I can get a defrost timer or ballast resistor if needed . Im not going to buy a trane and pay big bucks and then be told my money is no good if I ever want to buy parts for it..,,whats sup with dat? screw dat

 

[rickairmedic]

Well Fairlaneman that basically is keeping guys like me from filing bankruptcy . I know alot of the supply houses here wont sell to anybody unless they are licensed My Carrier distributor wont but that keeps me with work available what kills me is guys like me who are honest not having any work while the ones like the bunch you delt with who are out robbing peaple at gunpoint have more work than they can handle .

Rick

 

[jay50]

Jay Carrier uses both Copeland and Bristol compressors made to their specs both High quality compressors . I am honestly not sure what compressor Trane is using now I just know its not a climatuff and I have replaced a huge number of them in the last 8 years that were less than 10 years old . I would expect this out of a cheaper brand but not a brand that has built a rep as being one of the best . I will say though it is like pretty much everything else today if you get more than 5 years out of it you did good LOL.


Rick

My heatpump was installed in '97 so I assume I got one of the good compressors. Local guy was/is Pro-Trane last time I talked to him..10 years ago when installed. Unit has never had any problems. Guess I'll ask him if he is still singing the "Trane is best" tune whenever I meet him again.

 

[rickairmedic]

Jay if your unit was made in 96-97 you should be in good shape as they were still using the climatuff compressor at that time . I was still PRO Trane at that time .

Rick