How NOT to build a pole building...build thread

[carhunter]

Ok, I've shared some of this here and there, but I guess its finally time to share my build.

Backstory - I've always wanted a building of my own. I started off working in a converted chicken coop in high school, graduated into a converted horse barn, then moved into a commercial space when I opened my business in 2002. Years later, we closed the business and moved to the Cincinnati area to pursue a new career. But everything is still in storage in 75 miles away...and there's a lot of stuff!

We have 5 acres, most of it sloping downhill and wooded. There was no access past the driveway, so we'd need a separate driveway before we could even start. We also wanted it back on the property, out of sight, for privacy.

Now, this is far from an ideal build, and we made some mistakes, but it was budget conscious and the end goal was just storage - not a high end workspace. Up at the house there's a second 2 car garage for the heavy work. And I did not have 30-40k cash laying around so it had to be done in stages over time.

I found a local contractor through Craigslist who offered to do the excavation for the building pad and gravel driveway. We measured it out at over 500' from the road to the woods. He specialized in driveways, and offered all the concrete fill I'd need for the job

They started by cutting back the topsoil and dumping big chunks of concrete, which were broken up on site and spread. That was topped off with bank run gravel and smoothed.

At the same time they started excavating the woods for the building pad, cutting into the slope until we hit good soil. The decision was made to pour a concrete footer and retaining wall.

It was fall and the kids loved to visit the site and watch from the distance.

As it got colder, trouble started.

 

[JC23]

I'll be watching this one...

 

[carhunter]

Since excavation was going well, I let the contractor do more work. I say going well, but honestly I saw trouble signs from the start - work was slow, and the guys would show up late in the day, work 5 or 6 hours, and go home. Their dump truck constantly broke down, and could only get a few loads in before conking out for the day. Contractor's estimates for gravel and fuel were always on the low side. But overall I was saving a lot of money, and acting as "project manager" made me feel good and I got to keep a close eye on money and the job.

I wasn't going to go past the foundation stage, but I got into the "since-you're-in-there" dilemma. Building up the low side of the pad required a lot of concrete fill, which we couldn't dig through to pour footers later, so we had to excavate and set posts before backfilling. But once the posts were up, they required banding and girts to keep them in place over the winter. The weather was holding out better than we expected, and the guys could keep working, so why not set trusses.

Once the trusses were up, why not get it under roof? Now that there's a roof, how about siding? It's so easy to get in deep quick!

To fund this I was combining credit cards and selling lots of my extra stuff - parts and project cars I'd been accumulating. (yes, the very stuff I was planning on storing in the building in the first place!!).

I kept lucking into deals - recycled (used) 6x6 posts from a salvaged building, discount coupons from Lowe's, we found a local sheet metal provider and a lumber yard with good prices.

So we kept going, despite a few warning signs

 

[carhunter]

Towards the start of winter, we got into an annoying freeze-thaw-rain-snow cycle that turned the site into a mudpit. Complicating things was the fact that the driveway wasn't finished and the workers couldn't hear directly to the building without traipsing through the mud. Where was the rest of my gravel and concrete?

Turns out there was a weekend a few weeks back where the contractor disappeared and was unreachable...yep, he was in jail, and the money I'd just paid for materials went for bail!

At this point I was stuck. We already had trusses on order, and I was working two jobs plus being a part time stay at home dad, so there was no time for me to get some people together and finish it myself. So, with the promise that I'd be repaid, we kept going, but on a cash per day basis.

Trusses went up, purlins and roof went on, and after I traded some labor for mechanical repairs, the dump truck went back to work.

Check out the view from the peak of the roof - that's a once in a lifetime shot. And that's me supervising the site, taken by my 4yo daughter. I never knew she could use a camera?! (my hair is much shorter now, LOL)

 

[carhunter]

Now we're into january - the roof is on but there are tons of annoying details - like untrimmed roof insulation hanging off the building and blowing in the wind, brush dumped in the yard, still not enough fill around and inside the building...Little stuff that gets to you.

Plus the contractor had a new baby at home, and a baby momma in rehab! Now, as silly as this sounds, old AJ (the contractor) and I had kinda gotten pretty close. I mean, you spend 6 months working with someone and you establish a working relationship. And despite his faults, he was an amiable guy. Probably a con artist at heart, but I had a soft spot for him.

I was his only paying job at this point - who's doing concrete work in the dead of winter, right? - so he and his guys are working when they can. One day early in the year, one of the workers is out there by himself doing some dirt work and drives the caterpillar into a sinkhole. And buried it up to the cab. And the mud froze.

We tried everything - cribbing, winches, rocks, etc. Finally the damn thing ran out of gas and it was so far in the hole the hatch couldn't be opened to add fuel. So we had to hire a mini-excavator to dig it out.

At the same time the mini excavator finished up the trench for the electric, which I'd also been talked into adding. That was a whole mess in itself, but more on that later.

The sinking of the cat also sunk AJ...he was flat broke, out of work, his guys wouldn't even show up, and I started hearing odd rumors about his baby mama, and hints that AJ might be in other trouble.

 

[CARS]

When it rains, it pours.

Subscribing to this soap opera

 

[carhunter]

Right about then, the Sheriff started nosing around and AJ got nervous. Why, I didn't know at the time, but AJ and I were arguing over money and progress and he was ready to quit. It was cold, there was no electric at the building for heat or tools, and while the guys were trying to finish up the driveway, the dump truck got busted by a highway mobile inspector for a list of violations two pages long - cracked windshield, two cut tires, gas tank held on with a nylon strap, etc...At this point it was just laughable.

Finally, the truth about the sheriff came out. AJ had bought a bunch of equipment on credit and pawned it all. There was a warrant out for him for several counts of theft, plus the credit company wanted their stuff back! So he's dodging them. The baby mama is in and out of rehab, and fighting him for their kid. He gets so down he sells his truck to the scrap yard for money to live on. And all the time he still owes me money and labor on the job.

That was the final straw. He and the crew were fired, and the sheriff caught up with him not long after. As of March he was in jail with 6 charges pending, not to mention potential fraud charges from my job.

As it stood then, the building was barely there. Siding was hung but not trimmed, one piece of roofing was missing. Several corners were out of square, the dirtwork was incomplete and I was 250' short of a full driveway. I wouldn't be moving into the building for awhile. But I got a great deal.

 

[carhunter]

The first priority was to get the site level and ensure proper drainage. Fortunately, I had the loan of an excavator and I used every free minute to move dirt. Lucked into a roll of driveway fabric at auction for $100, which saved me a lot of gravel and mess.

I sold my restored '79 Dodge Powerwagon and bought a $900 4x4 '78 GMC to haul gravel. Every morning on the way to work, I'd stop and fill up for $20, haul it home in the evening, and shovel it out. I was able to get 2.5 tons per load. (don't do this at home kids, but if you do make sure you've got new tires and brakes!). As we got down to the wire, I found an old Chevy dump with a sweet 454 and was able to get up to almost 7 tons per trip. My permit expired in June, so I only had 3 months to finish all this.

The electric was its own little mess. The building was permitted for electric sourced from the main house. However the inspector did not require us to get a permit for the upgraded meter and wiring required at the house. Somewhere along the line our local inspector changed, and the new guy hated everything that AJ did. So back to the drawing board. I had to hire an electrician, pull a new permit, add a service disconnect, re-run the incorrect wiring AJ installed...It was a $2000 expense I wasn't planning on. But I made a good friend in the electrician that did the work, and the electrical eventually passed with flying colors.

 

[jrherald420]

When i was still in construction i couldnt tell you how many times we saw this happen. Sadly we were almost always the ones that were hired to "finish" / rebuild the project. Good luck to you, and it looks to be really nice when you get it all done.

 

[carhunter]

I had 4 different builders out to estimate the remaining labor, and nobody wanted to tough it. Not that the building was that bad, but it was still muddy and it wasn't worth the effort for them to send a few guys out for a week to clean up somebody else's mess. Plus, I got the not-so-subtle hint from several of them that it was an unwritten rule that if you hire a cheap builder and get screwed, they others will leave you hanging. Out of the 4, I didn't even get a call back...Which speaks to my faith in contractors in general.

So I spent all my free time working to make money to pay for materials, and working on the building itself. It really wasn't that bad - just annoying cleaning up after someone else. Somewhere there's a pic of the cooler full of alcohol-energy drinks I found! That explained a lot...

By May I had the worst of it knocked out. The out of square corners just took some adjustment. Trimming the siding was the most time consuming - in some cases whole panels had to come off to adjust fit. If I'd had a crew of helpers and the siding hadn't been screwed down in so many places already, I would have stripped the building back down, cut everything to fit and wrapped the posts, trimmed the door openings, etc, before reinstalling.

But it was just me, and I did the best I could with the resources available. In the end, its within tolerance. The rat guard is a little wavy, but I may shim that later. Burch Sheet Metal in Walton, Ky was a great help. They bent the door trim and fascia metal to my drawings, and got every piece right.

Garage doors were ordered and I installed them myself - 16x12 with double springs!! Found a really nice entry door while I was picking up the garage doors - it was a new take off from a renovation. Thanks AE Doors! In June, 5 days before permit expiration, we passed final inspection!!

Not a lot of pics from the final stages. Its in move in condition now, but I still need to wire outlets and build the soffits. I didn't budget for concrete - AJ was supposed to do that too, but for now packed clay and bank run will have to do.

 

[carhunter]

That's about it for the backstory. The wife and kids were on vacation over the weekend, so I got plenty of time to build a loft with a brick paver floor underneath. Learned a lot about pavers - without a compactor handy, I hand tamped and leveled everything. The result is not perfect, but looks "rustic" LOL. I may relay a portion of it when time permits. Rule One - plan out your edges and spacing beforehand! I was goofing off with the first 8x8 section, not planning on leaving it permanently, but liked it enough to keep going. I have to shift that first section over about 4" because I found a better layout pattern afterwards...


The loft is 24x10, and to come up with the design I referenced the span tables and engineering data for the particular lumber that was available. My little brain determined a double 2x10 header, supported middle and end with 6x6 posts (on poured footers and rebar pins just to be safe), would carry the weight of 2x8 joists spaced 16" OC. The 2' overhang gives me extra room, but keeps the length of the joists within the maximum unsupported span for 2x8's.

Sheathing is 3/4 plywood. It feels super strong too. On the side wall, there is a single 2x10 hanger and the joists are laid on top, rather than with hangers. The whole thing is bolted where possible, and nailed with 20d nails everywhere else.

 

[FatFenderBowTie]

Gee and I thought I had issues with my contractors!!

Sorry to hear all you went through, but it looks like you've done a great job you should be proud of, and, if AJ has any conscience, I hope this is eating away on him while he is on "holiday"

 

[carhunter]

In closing I'd like to say thanks for reading, and that I didn't post all this to ask for sympathy. This building was like smacking a bear and not getting mauled. I got lucky once, but would I try it again...? obviously the choice of contractor wasn't a good one, but had I not gone with AJ or someone similar, I wouldn't have been able to do it. Out of all the contractors I called in the planning stages, including an "architect" who tried to stick it to me, AJ was the only one who really wanted the job and was willing to work with me.

My only real disappointment is that I didn't get my concrete floor...well, I also miss the stuff I had to sell along the way, but all in all we saved a lot of money doing it this way.

I guess to those of you who want to be your own "project manager", know what you're getting into beforehand....and watch for warning signs.

 

[carhunter]

...got the first car inside a few nights ago too...big win!!

 

[jhelrey]

Well, how much are we in it for?

 

[Grandad]

My only real disappointment is that I didn't get my concrete floor...

Hi carhunter. I'm a newb here and I'm from Australia.
Don't be too down on your dirt floor. You may well learn to love it.
I've lived most of my life in a large city here in Oz. Roughly 1 1/2 times the size of Chicago to give you some kind of reference.
About 15 years ago my wife, 5 kids and myself made the big move to country Australia.
The property we bought had a 20mtr x 60 mtr shed on the block. The estate agent guy referred to it as a "Machinery" shed.
No door, just a big opening for a 1/3 of its length.
One small section up the other end had a concrete floor running the full 20 mtr depth and maybe 5mtrs of the width.
The rest of the floor was dirt.
Having just moved from the burbs where a 2 car garage was luxury the sight of this massive shed made my eyes light up.
I still recall myself saying to my wife, "I'll have to finish that concreting to the rest of the floor and put some doors in"

Well, I'm here to tell you that 10 yrs later when we sold the place the dirt floor was still there. Not because I never got around to it, but because I never saw the need.

It worked just fine. I had some woodworking machinery which I wasn't keen on laying straight onto dirt so I buried a brick at each corner to level them off and get them off the ground.
I also found it was almost impossible to use my garage creeper. Those small wheels got caught up on every little pebble in the floor.
But I soon learnt I could sweep a dirt floor. Over the years it had been so well compacted that it was easy to sweep.
I made up a board about 5' x 6" and nailed it solid with old bottle caps. The old type before the day of screw tops. I used that board over a large part of the dirt floor where we were likely to be working under a car in a back and forth motion to basically "Sand" the floor extra flat.
After that, the creeper worked just fine.
This shed was never a Taj Mahal. Compared to some of the shops here on GJ, ok then...compared to ANY of the shops here, it was primitive to the extreme.
But I can tell you, the amount of work performed inside that shed was phenomenal.
I've now moved back in the burbs of the country town where we moved to and everyday, I miss that shed, and that dirt floor.
Just last weekend I was up at the eldest son's place helping him organise his shed. I asked him if he planned the concrete the dirt floor. He reply, "Nup. Why bother?"
Here's one of the only pics I have of that shed. The door never did get fitted so some leaves used to blow in, but I think you can see, the floor is quite serviceable.

 

[carhunter]

Well, how much are we in it for?

I haven't split it up between the various stages of the project, but 40x54 building with 2 16x12 garage doors, entry door, roof insulation, retaining wall, poured footers, 500' gravel drive with parking area, misc sitework, etc....all totaled, under 36k.

Keep in mind a lot of the savings was from DIY'ing a lot of stuff - saved several thousand by hauling my own gravel and finishing the dirtwork, saved $1000 by installing the doors myself, etc.

 

[carhunter]

Hi carhunter. I'm a newb here and I'm from Australia.
Don't be too down on your dirt floor. You may well learn to love it.
I've lived most of my life in a large city here in Oz. Roughly 1 1/2 times the size of Chicago to give you some kind of reference.
About 15 years ago my wife, 5 kids and myself made the big move to country Australia.
The property we bought had a 20mtr x 60 mtr shed on the block. The estate agent guy referred to it as a "Machinery" shed.
No door, just a big opening for a 1/3 of its length.
One small section up the other end had a concrete floor running the full 20 mtr depth and maybe 5mtrs of the width.
The rest of the floor was dirt.
Having just moved from the burbs where a 2 car garage was luxury the sight of this massive shed made my eyes light up.
I still recall myself saying to my wife, "I'll have to finish that concreting to the rest of the floor and put some doors in"

Well, I'm here to tell you that 10 yrs later when we sold the place the dirt floor was still there. Not because I never got around to it, but because I never saw the need.

It worked just fine. I had some woodworking machinery which I wasn't keen on laying straight onto dirt so I buried a brick at each corner to level them off and get them off the ground.
I also found it was almost impossible to use my garage creeper. Those small wheels got caught up on every little pebble in the floor.
But I soon learnt I could sweep a dirt floor. Over the years it had been so well compacted that it was easy to sweep.
I made up a board about 5' x 6" and nailed it solid with old bottle caps. The old type before the day of screw tops. I used that board over a large part of the dirt floor where we were likely to be working under a car in a back and forth motion to basically "Sand" the floor extra flat.
After that, the creeper worked just fine.
This shed was never a Taj Mahal. Compared to some of the shops here on GJ, ok then...compared to ANY of the shops here, it was primitive to the extreme.
But I can tell you, the amount of work performed inside that shed was phenomenal.
I've now moved back in the burbs of the country town where we moved to and everyday, I miss that shed, and that dirt floor.
Just last weekend I was up at the eldest son's place helping him organise his shed. I asked him if he planned the concrete the dirt floor. He reply, "Nup. Why bother?"
Here's one of the only pics I have of that shed. The door never did get fitted so some leaves used to blow in, but I think you can see, the floor is quite serviceable.

That's great! About half of my floor is hard, dry clay that has been packed by lots of machinery traffic. The other half is similar but topped with about an inch of bank run, which is sandy dirt with some gravel in it. I'll remember your "sanding" board for later

 

[Dale Rogers]

Nebraska Pioneers lived in Sod Homes with dirt floors.
Freinds grand dad grew up in one and said it was the most comfortable house he ever lived in. I am sure they did the same things to the floor you did Carhunter.

 

[darkk]

Nebraska Pioneers lived in Sod Homes with dirt floors.
Freinds grand dad grew up in one and said it was the most comfortable house he ever lived in. I am sure they did the same things to the floor you did Carhunter.

It's off topic but my uncle *John* built a home ( shack really*) about 15x18 with oak boards from pallets he got at work. Sided outside with tar paper including the roof,inside was insulated with cardboard boxes, dirt floors, no electric, no running water, out side toilet. Their furniture was from free street leavings, they used cardboard boxes for their clothes,heated with a wood stove. Even had a daughter that lived there until about 23 yrs old. Talk about the old days, but he was a man of simple needs.

 

[Azmotorhead]

Nice read Carhunter. Good on you for finishing on your own.
I guess the 5sec rule doesn't apply when living on a dirt floor.

 

[carhunter]

Thanks guys...I've got some more ideas I'd like to try as time permits. if you want I'll keep posting progress.

This week is move in time...I've got my work cut out for me!

 

[W650Mike]

Hey carhunter,

I just read through your ordeal and fully understand the title of the thread! All in all, it’s a good looking building in spite of contractor woes. We’ve probably all been through something similar…you just got to experience it on a larger scale than most. Contractors can be great – and some are truly a nightmare of the reality show variety.

Now here’s a thought: How about pouring the floor in sections, as budget permits, using pavers as borders between sections. Would make for a neat looking pattern and a sack-crete footer under the pavers would keep them at the appropriate level.

 

[jktruck150]

Thanks for the read! I am glad to hear you took control when you could and did what you could! I look forward to your future progress!!

 

[tommudd]

Good read, enjoyed going through it all, I'm sure it wasn't fun but what a learning experience.

As far as dirt floors, everytime I am back over in Tanzania I am amazed at what they can do and make in the "garages" they have there. Dirt floors, some tin nailed up to provide some protection and there they are working on cars, building off road bumpers, painting everything. Its all what we get used to.

 

[carhunter]

Hey carhunter,


Now here’s a thought: How about pouring the floor in sections, as budget permits, using pavers as borders between sections. Would make for a neat looking pattern and a sack-crete footer under the pavers would keep them at the appropriate level.

That's a good idea. At one point I was going to build the forms for 1/4 or 1/3 of the building at a time and have someone else pour and finish it, but with everything we'll be stuffing in the building until I can organize and liquidate some of it, there just won't be room for a year of so. Dad will be losing his storage soon, so all the Model A's and parts will be coming here too. That's what the loft was for.

I'm just glad to have a building that's dry and has electric! I'm content with that for now.

 

[carhunter]

Good read, enjoyed going through it all, I'm sure it wasn't fun but what a learning experience.

As far as dirt floors, everytime I am back over in Tanzania I am amazed at what they can do and make in the "garages" they have there. Dirt floors, some tin nailed up to provide some protection and there they are working on cars, building off road bumpers, painting everything. Its all what we get used to.

How'd you go from Swanton, Oh, to Tanzania?! That's an interesting jump

 

[jktruck150]

I'm just glad to have a building that's dry and has electric! I'm content with that for now.

I second that!

 

[FJ 432]

Sounds like you made lemonade out of lemons. I believe that in time you'll have a great story to tell and the satisfaction of turning an ugly situation into a nice garage.

Thanks for sharing your story.