Wedges and Feathers?

[Yojinbo]

I need to break some LARGE sandstone boulders, does anyone here use these tools to brake rocks?

I am looking for a source for these mason's tools. I know that Trow and Holden sell them, and that Lee Valley imports some Chinese ones. Does anyone have another source?

The are also called:
Pieces and Sets
Feathers and Irons
Plug and feather
Feather and tare
Wedges and shims
Pins and Feathers

 

[NAYLOR]

Rent a jackhammer and be done with it.

 

[Yojinbo]

That sounds like a good idea, but:

A. These rocks are are 5' x 6' x 20+'.

B. I would need a self-powered unit as all of this will take place about 2 miles from the nearest AC / Compressor.

 

[rockchucker]

I was just watching how Ancients used to Cube Granite with minimal Tools. Basically take a Pick Axe and dig yourself a trench then place Wedges in the Trench and split the Stone. I am sure you could use regular Logging Wedges.

"All it takes is Time and Pressure"

 

[Yojinbo]

I was thinking about that - or even cold chisels maybe?

I do have a cordless hammer drill.

 

[rockchucker]

The show was called "Ancient Aliens" and it was in episode 1 or 2. I watched it on Netflix. Pretty interesting stuff. Talks about all of the large stone moving and how structures were made. There is a 30 year experienced Stone Cutter/Sculptor on there that throws in his 2¢ about some things too.

 

[I_AM]

Cost almost 2k for the kit, but you should check this out. http://www.ezebreak.com/index.htm

 

[Yojinbo]

Cost almost 2k for the kit, but you should check this out. http://www.ezebreak.com/index.htm

Neat. Too rich for my blood - but I happy to see them endorse the Hilti hammer drill driver (may be made in China now).

 

[NAYLOR]

That sounds like a good idea, but:

A. These rocks are are 5' x 6' x 20+'.

B. I would need a self-powered unit as all of this will take place about 2 miles from the nearest AC / Compressor.

Yeah that wouldn't work. I've seen a few bobcat/tractor jackhammer attachments. Doing that work by hand sounds brutal.

 

[Yojinbo]

If I can "slice" these rocks into usable sizes I have a lot of creek crossings that need rocks around the culverts - so explosive methods are not preferred.

I may sing a different song if carving the first rock up takes 2 weeks.

 

[rockchucker]

Then there is always the Diamond Chain Saw...

 

[Yojinbo]

Then there is always the Diamond Chain Saw...

Too thirsty. (I lack running water, and the creeks and ponds are dried up just now)

 

[dieselmike]

dynamite.... duhhhh

 

[BlindViper]

What is the purpose? are they in the way? Can you just bury them?

 

[Yojinbo]

One of them is in way and will go first.

They are not useful at current dimension - even for landscaping.

 

[Zebu Fellenz]

Cost almost 2k for the kit, but you should check this out. http://www.ezebreak.com/index.htm

This looks like the best idea so far based on what you've told us. Maybe it's possible to rent a kit to do your job? Or find a local contractor who does this type of work.

However if you do decide to tackle this with (human powered) hand tools please keep us updated on your progress.

 

[Yojinbo]

I'm going out in the morning with a borrowed set of feathers and irons, a Hilti cordless hammer drill, a "rail road bar" (prybar), some chisels, some hammers, and an orange cooler full of water.

I will keep you all updated and snap a pic or two.

 

[BlindViper]

good luck...what are you gonna move them with once they are broken up?

 

[BBQ&Love]

Pictures man!

 

[Alchymist]

Dexpan:

http://www.dexpan.com/dexpan-how-to...ive-controlled-demolition-agent-breaking.aspx

 

[Yojinbo]

good luck...what are you gonna move them with once they are broken up?

A dozer man comes by now and then to help with projects around the farm. He can push/pull smaller then car sized stuff quite well.

My 14-year-old son has been drafted to help.

The 1 ton truck is loaded with the following tools (except for lunch):

Drill
Feathers and Irons
PPE for 2 (Eye protection, Hearing protection, Breathing masks, Gloves, ST boots)
Chisels (masonry and misc)
Steel punch to drive wedges deeper
Hammers
Rail road bar
Lunch
Sledge hammer
Long chains
Come-along

 

[BlindViper]

bring a extra sledge hammer in case you miss and snap the handle and dont forget the digi camera

 

[Yojinbo]

Dexpan:

http://www.dexpan.com/dexpan-how-to...ive-controlled-demolition-agent-breaking.aspx

Now, that looks neat. But I THINK that once I go to the trouble of drilling holes, the shims and wedges will do that work faster. I say THINK because I am no mason.

But this gives me hope:

 

[Yojinbo]

bring a extra sledge hammer in case you miss and snap the handle and dont forget the digi camera

Funny you should say that I was just looking my spare and realized that it's busted. I was going to put a handle on it one of these days...

My "main" sledge now is a terrible feeling yellow plastic handled off-brand affair that used to be the spare. But it's tough and sometimes that's all you need in a sledge.

 

[Danglerb]

Googled breaking large rocks ...

Soundless Chemical Demolition Agents
http://www.new-technologies.org/ECT/Civil/soundche.htm

Below you'll find links to information on three expansive cracking
agents that should meet your needs:

"BRISTAR is a soundless and safe demolition agent which is quite
different from ordinary demolition agents such as explosives and
dangerous materials. It does not cause any fly rock, noise, ground
vibration, gas, dust or any other environmental pollution when used
properly...

When BRISTAR is mixed with an appropriate quantity of water and poured
into cylindrical holes drilled in rock or concrete, it hardens and
expands. BRISTAR cracks the matter to be demolished which then can be
easily removed with a pick breaker, pneumatic breaker, excavator,
etc...

Since demolition by using BRISTAR is based on a fracture due to a
tensile stress, all kinds of rocks and concrete can be cracked and
broken by using BRISTAR when appropriate holes are properly drilled."

Demolition Technologies: Bristar Non-Explosive Demolition Agent
http://www.demolitiontechnologies.com/

 

[Alchymist]

Googled breaking large rocks ...

Soundless Chemical Demolition Agents
http://www.new-technologies.org/ECT/Civil/soundche.htm

Below you'll find links to information on three expansive cracking
agents that should meet your needs:

"BRISTAR is a soundless and safe demolition agent which is quite
different from ordinary demolition agents such as explosives and
dangerous materials. It does not cause any fly rock, noise, ground
vibration, gas, dust or any other environmental pollution when used
properly...

When BRISTAR is mixed with an appropriate quantity of water and poured
into cylindrical holes drilled in rock or concrete, it hardens and
expands. BRISTAR cracks the matter to be demolished which then can be
easily removed with a pick breaker, pneumatic breaker, excavator,
etc...

Since demolition by using BRISTAR is based on a fracture due to a
tensile stress, all kinds of rocks and concrete can be cracked and
broken by using BRISTAR when appropriate holes are properly drilled."

Demolition Technologies: Bristar Non-Explosive Demolition Agent
http://www.demolitiontechnologies.com/

Same stuff as Dexpan.

 

[ekeller]

Go down to your rental yard and get a bobcat and a hammer attachment. I have a Bobcat T300 with a NPK hydraulic breaker on the front, and that combo would eat your rock for lunch, trust me!

 

[RivennHewn]

Pick up a dozen or so illegals at the HD parkinglot!

 

[theoldwizard1]

Wedge and feathers have been demoed on This Old House several times.

I would guess the only trick is proper spacing of the holes in a straight line and then working from one end to the other. They usually use them to split very hard rock, like granite, so I don't know how well it will work in a softer stone, like sand stone.

 

[Yojinbo]

Throwing in chalk, string and lunch as we go.

 

[Yojinbo]

OK, expedition over. I'm going to share while its all still fresh in my brain.

I will put some pics up later but some lessons learned:
1. Never pick a bar fight with a stone mason; Anyone that can swing a 5lb hammer all day long is best respected.
2. A jackhammer attachment on a bobcat would work OK, actually. It would keep you far away form the big stuff, I think.
3. Not all sandstone is equal. We had a lot of variation within in the same rock sometimes some hard, some very soft.
4. I needed more batteries for my Hilti TE 4A 18v hammer drill (only had 2). I was getting 20 x 10-inch Holes Per Charge (HPC) in 1/2" holes 9" deep. The wedges and shims methods needs a lot of holes.
5. I tried cutting 3/4 in holes with this drill (over its ideal rating) and it did OK, but that chewed up battery a lot faster.
6. I needed more wedge and shim sets. I went out with 5 x 1/2" sets and 3 x 3/4" sets that was not enough for the really big stones.
7. People on the internet videos doing this are mostly working thin stones. For Real 3D work (stuff over 2ft deep), we found the need to drill and wedge the sides too to keep a clean break.
8. You need to score the line you want to crack along 100% (think of cutting glass on a large scale). I would have traded a Proto ratchet for a good 4" or 5" wide heavy chisel today at the farm.
9. My Beta masonry hammer was well worth the $5 something I paid for is last year. The huge square face is ideal when your arm begins to gel.
10. Of my cold chisels, only the really large ones proved useful to us. A big one with a shaft of about an inch (25.4mm for the International crowd) was great to supplement the crack as it started to form.
11. Hole spacing (distance) was important and should have been about 6 inches - again the need for more wedges and sets.


OK, I think that is all of my initial take-aways. We did not attempt the huge rocks as we found that the small ones were in the shade in the morning and we wanted to know how to do this. So we focused on some small ones right by a crossing.

Edit: Amazon has some Trow and Holden Stuff: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=Trow+and+Holden&x=0&y=0

I want to get get some of their 1/2 wedges and shims sets but they seem to be out of stock. One of those carbide chipping chisels would be ideal too.

 

[BlindViper]

Do you have a generator? You could get a corded hammerdrill and be golden. I have a nice chisel bit for my hammer drill it would work for you fine.

 

[Danglerb]

I would think ONE lesson in breaking rocks by hand would be plenty for a lifetime. In prison its called hard labor, so skipping the first lesson would have been my plan.

Bobcat with the thing sounded like fun, ditto the demo goop.

Picts next time.

 

[Yojinbo]

Sorry to be slow on the pics, folks. I'm still not skilled at sharing photos.

Here are the small rocks by the first of 3 crossings:

Here are some wedges and shims in place:

Here is a young man at work:

Here is a result:

 

[Flatland Dave]

cool, nice work!

 

[theoldwizard1]

8. You need to score the line you want to crack along 100% (think of cutting glass on a large scale).

Brick Chisel

 

[Yojinbo]

Do you have a generator? You could get a corded hammerdrill and be golden. I have a nice chisel bit for my hammer drill it would work for you fine.

I lack a generator. I need one - its on my long list of "someday" items.

 

[Yojinbo]

Here is an example of one of the culverts that we are going to use the 'slicings' to face on the upstream side (set with mortar):