Best/Cheapest Alternative to Sand for Blasting?

[plinker]

Cool, thanks for the link!

man you saftey police are insane. I hope you guys at least work in a field where your knowledge of this stuff is applicable. Every time someone posts something on this board weather its using chrome sockets on impacts, welding a air compressor, not wearing a full face mask with supplied clean oxygen to use a grinder. I mean seriously, you said it once let it go man. If someone wants to use play sand to sand blast let them. God, you goody-to-shoes types on this board act like you read every direction and caution that comes with everything and have never done something dangerous or not recommended by the manufacture.

Nobodys perfect, but sometimes you can get away with doing something "unsafe" (been there, done that), but if you have the option available, do it as safe as possible. If that means the inconveince of wearing a respirator or plugs/muffs, glasses, ete... so be it.

I'm only 25 and have a degree of hearing sensitivity/damage. I myself dont need any other problems and dont wish anyone else to have any.

 

[cnc-me]

What part of "silica sand is dangerous and can lead to silicosis" do you NOT understand?

I use it in a cabinet and wear a respirator.

 

[cnc-me]

I looked forward to a blasting cabinet in my garage someday but now you all have me very paranoid. Is there any sites or info anything you'd suggest looking into to make sure I'm going about things the cheapest but SAFEST way?

SAFEST way..... hire it done for you.

 

[torqueman2002]

I use black diamond, from northern tool, tractor supply, etc. They carry a fine grit and a more coarse. I use the fine grit in both my blasters, 7.99 a bag.

+1

 

[jmlcolorado]

I can't remember who, but another GJ'er posted this photo before. I hope it helps someone. Ingeniously simple in my opinion.

I have had this in mind for awhile and I intended to use it w/ white play sand, a wet bandana & dust mask... but as warned here several times, play sand is dangerous and is to be avoided. So I'm thinking of the black magic stuff if I can find it here in SoCal...no Tractor Supply here.

For rust removal on the frame of my driver '55 Chevy truck I don't think this approach would work, but for larger flat surfaces it could save a lot of collection work. Make sure to user an ultra fine filter on your shop vac.

This is a GREAT idea! Have you tried this yet? I have to, or am wanting to, blast all the thick rust off my rat rod pickup. Ive grinded (dont think thats a word ), sanded, chemically attacked the rust and still have not found anything that wont take months to do the whole truck. This just might be the trick!
I assume you loose some velocity with the vacuum, but it looks like whoever took that photo had it setup to work well.
Anyone have any more info on a setup like this for large projects?


Sorry for the temporary hi jack

 

[CudaChick1968]

I use black diamond, from northern tool, tractor supply, etc. They carry a fine grit and a more coarse. I use the fine grit in both my blasters, 7.99 a bag.

How many pounds are in that $7.99 bag?

 

[BJ42LX]

How many pounds are in that $7.99 bag?

I think this is the stuff they are talking about. I'm going to pick up a bag or two tomorrow morning.

http://www.tractorsupply.com/tools/...fine-blend-30-60-blasting-grit-50-lb--3907798

 

[CudaChick1968]

Thanks BJ42LX ... so with my supplier's Black Beauty at $16/100 lbs., it's about the same. That's what I wanted to know!

 

[Dan in Pasadena]

man you saftey police are insane. I hope you guys at least work in a field where your knowledge of this stuff is applicable. Every time someone posts something on this board weather its using chrome sockets on impacts, welding a air compressor, not wearing a full face mask with supplied clean oxygen to use a grinder. I mean seriously, you said it once let it go man. If someone wants to use play sand to sand blast let them. God, you goody-to-shoes types on this board act like you read every direction and caution that comes with everything and have never done something dangerous or not recommended by the manufacture.

Go ahead and do WHATEVER you want. Smoke a cigarette while you're blasting with silica snad and not wearing ANY personal protective equipment. Just don't spend my tax dollars geetting treatment later or using the public courts for your lawsuit of whomever-you-can-get-money out of. Party on Dude!

 

[CudaChick1968]

nisnomans13, I don't know how I missed your post the first time around but feel the need to add something.

First, I do work in a field where knowledge on the subject is applicable. People call me the boss around here.

Secondly, whether advice is taken or disregarded is a personal choice. The purpose of a message board is the free exchange of information and (for me anyway) to hopefully learn from other people's mistakes so I can save myself trial and error and maybe a few bucks along the way. I realize I'm a total newbie here and may be out of line ... but I have every intention to participate where I can just as a small thank you for the information I've learned from others in the short time I've been here. I look forward to learning from you too.

 

[AZ_Catskinner]

Blasting with silica based sand is fine IF you fork over the bucks to wear a proper respirator. Do you need a full moon suit? No. I work in a secondary crushing plant at a copper mine - silica dust is our business. We wear half mask respirators with P100 cartridges as recommended by NIOSH for silica dust atmospheres. A good one with a couple of sets of cartridges will set you back around $70. Get one that fits right, wear the damned thing RELIGIOUSLY and there's nothing to worry about. Change your cartridges with every two to three uses too. It's also a good idea to get the low-pro "pancake" filters (MSA's look more like whoopee cushions) for wearing under a welding hood. Lung problems ****, so it pays to prevent them.

Just an FYI: copper slag is every bit as bad, if not worse for your lungs without respiratory protection - there's gobs of silica in it, along with iron, arsenic, cadmium, lead and other metals. Smelters use straight silica as flux to bind with the impurities in the metal and float them off in the slag.

 

[Jononon]

There are posts fairly frequently where the "saftey police" go overboard, but would you criticise someone who suggested that, for example, welding on a half full gas tank wasn't a great idea? At least gas tank explosions have the decency to kill you quickly.

We wear half mask respirators with P100 cartridges as recommended by NIOSH for silica dust atmospheres. A good one with a couple of sets of cartridges will set you back around $70. Get one that fits right, wear the damned thing RELIGIOUSLY and there's nothing to worry about.

The risks from crushing and the risks from blasting are significantly different, which is why the applicable advice is:

"Wear only a Type CE abrasive-blast supplied-air respirator for abrasive blasting [of crystalline silica]."

The advice to clean your clothes after working is also significant. Asbestosis was more common in shipyard workers' wives than in the workers themselves. They responded to the known risks by wearing suitable respirators, but when they got home their wives would take their overalls out into the yard and beat the scratchy fibres out of them before wash day.

Just an FYI: copper slag is every bit as bad, if not worse for your lungs without respiratory protection - there's gobs of silica in it, along with iron, arsenic, cadmium, lead and other metals. Smelters use straight silica as flux to bind with the impurities in the metal and float them off in the slag.

Although it is true that it has multiple impurities, copper slag has much lower fragility than silica sand, this is why copper slag can be re-used and it also results in a much lower rate of inhalable particulates.

As I've said on this subject before, I used to work in a surface processing plant and my grandfather, who was the gaffer in the same plant back in the '60s, is in the same place as Catamount's for the same reasons

 

[AZ_Catskinner]

Going overboard on safety is fine, but you have to reach a certain point and step back and think about it. OSHA regs are virtually always overkill, and there's no denying it.

The laundry point is a good one - one too often ignored by most of us.

Slag is still every bit as bad as sand, based on simple logic. Is it harder? Yes it is. Does it still degrade? Yes it does. Where the particle VOLUME isn't as severe, the particles themselves get the damage done.

 

[VWandDodge]

I wonder how many people here who poo-poo the warnings of using silica sand would **** kittens if they happened to be in my dad's basement and stumbled across the asbestos blanket he has on a shelf.

 

[AZ_Catskinner]

I wonder how many people here who poo-poo the warnings of using silica sand would **** kittens if they happened to be in my dad's basement and stumbled across the asbestos blanket he has on a shelf.

Funny thing with asbestos that a lot of people don't know, and that's that different types of asbestos have different characteristics and likelihood of causing illness. Amphibole (dark) asbestos is associated with exponentially more cases of mesothelioma and other illnesses than the serpentine (white) asbestoses.

My grandfather worked in mining chrysotile asbestos for years - no signs of lung problems. Conversely, my great granddad died from silicosis that he developed as a driller in underground copper and silver mines. To compound the wierdness, out of a multigenerational mining family, we've had one case of silicosis, one fried thyroid, and one on the job fatality (cave in in the 1920's). The asbestos guy is healthier than any of the copper, silver and molybdenum guys and gals.

There's a huge problem in that the world is full of "experts" who will make a blanket declaration of things to be "bad", without digging deeper for facts. Most of the longer asbestos fibers are nowhere near as friable as the short fiber variety, and they tend to break in large enough particles for the lungs to eject.

 

[nismomans13]

OSHA regs are virtually always overkill, and there's no denying it.

really? because to me it seems OSHA regs are generally at the bare minimum. 9 times out of 10 the contractors we work for employ their own safety policy because they don't believe OSHA's are strict enough.

 

[AZ_Catskinner]

really? because to me it seems OSHA regs are generally at the bare minimum. 9 times out of 10 the contractors we work for employ their own safety policy because they don't believe OSHA's are strict enough.

I've never seen OSHA or MSHA fail to cover anything in the regs, up to and including the thoroughly ridiculous. If anyone adds their own improvements, I applaud them (usually). We've seen a trend over the years where safety "improvements" (usually brought about by insurance companies) have presented more of a hazard than they prevent (one of my favorites is the gratuitous overuse of reflective vests, especially around machinery).

I'm all for safety UNTIL it gets someone hurt or presents the possibility to do so.

 

[DZL JIM]

This is not meant with any attitude or insult or anything.
But do some of you really think you'll die from a lung disease if you use sand to sand blast, say, a truck frame?

I use sand to clean projects maybe once or twice a year and i've had my blaster for probably 20 years. It is of zero concern to me. I'm just not exposed to enough of it to matter. Seriously.
I have a greater chances of shortening my lifespan by riding my motorcycle without a helmet.

I worked with my cousin a few years back who did comercial on-site sand blasting. We always used sand and always had the full breathing helmets, fresh air supply, etc. That situation is totally different, IMO, than a home diy project as far as amount of exposure.
And we tried all different media, but when you select the proper grit of sand it simply worked better than any other material.

Just my $.02.

 

[Jononon]

This is not meant with any attitude or insult or anything.
But do some of you really think you'll die from a lung disease if you use sand to sand blast, say, a truck frame?

Silicosis is more often quality of life limiting than fatal, but, yes, that's a significant and wholly avoidable possibility.

I use sand to clean projects maybe once or twice a year and i've had my blaster for probably 20 years. It is of zero concern to me. I'm just not exposed to enough of it to matter. Seriously.

You're wrong. Seriously.

I have a greater chances of shortening my lifespan by riding my motorcycle without a helmet.

Probably true, but do you want to spend the last ten years of your life wheezing every time you climb the stairs?

 

[demographic]

What someone does after they are told the risks is their problem, but recommending that someone uses something that carries inherent risk without mentioning those risks is just plain stupid.

That's why threads like this are so good, they have input from many different people and the facts come to the surface.

 

[mdbeck1]

OKAY,

So now we all know why we shouldn't be using sand to sandblast. From what I have gathered there are a few economic "alternative" products on the market. The ones I see on this page are:
- Black Beauty
- http://www.tractorsupply.com/tools/s...50-lb--3907798

anybody else got a suggestion.

 

[plinker]

I have bought some glass abrasive (not bead) from this place, they have pretty good prices from what I've seen.

They also have garnet, aluminum oxide, glass bead & some others kinds.


It's nice to be able to get small quanitiys for limited use or just to try it out.

 

[DekeT]

I am a total newbie around here and pretty much a newbie to fabrication/manufacture/tooling. I fully appreciate it every time the "safety police" point out the dangers with dire warnings and insist on repeating the warnings. I mean this - thank you.

 

[eriksalo]

I think everyone can agree that sand is not a healthy choice for use as an abrasive. How dangerous sand is and how much use is too much, is up to the individual.

An important factor in choosing a blasting media is it's reuse-ability or recycle ability.

Black Beauty (Coal slag) and Starbright (Copper Slag) are very good choices for outside blasting. They are aggressive and remove rust quickly. However, they don't last very long. Estimates vary but Black Beauty only lasts 2-3 uses for me before it gets dull. The issue is the sharp edges and corners of the slag get dulled as the media is used. For outside work where you don't have much recycling, Black Beauty and Starbright are what I use. They are the workhorse of the industry and very cheap.

The best choice for lifetime is steel balls but they're a bit much for most people's hardware (think of a high speed automatic bb gun). Silicon carbide is also very durable but is expensive ($100/50 lbs) and likewise harsh on equipment and on the thing being blasted.

For my blast cabinet use, glass beads and Aluminum Oxide are my most common choices. I use Aluminum Oxide for the heavy work and glass bead for a soft, satin like finish. Both last a reasonably long time and are relatively inexpensive.

In practice I've found the hard part of getting media isn't the cost (this stuff is relatively cheap in the quantities used my most hobbyists) but is simply the pain in the neck associated with procuring it. For me, I have to drive to the local distributor which is located in an industrial part of town about 35 miles from my house. I get the stuff and then have haul the 100 lb bags and find a place in my shop where they can live for a year (since I don't use very much) without getting torn open and leaking everywhere.

In my opinion, it's a good investment to determine the right media and take the trouble to procure it. There is a really large range of things you can do with media beyond just removing rust.

 

[TozziWelding]

I like Black Beauty for the rough stuff, F the safety police

 

[DonkDonk]

I like Black Beauty for the rough stuff, F the safety police

You took the words out my mouth.

If you frequently sandblast without a fresh air system, I mean like a couple times a week, every week, then IMO you need to really be paying attention to the safest way to do things. If you are blasting a few hours a year, what are you worried about? Put on a respirator and get it done. Examples people use when they hammer on this are like night and day different... you are talking someone who is exposed to the bad stuff EVERY SINGLE DAY, 8 hours a day for YEARS AND YEARS. To me this is like someone asking which chop saw to buy and the first 10 responses are warning him not to test the effectiveness of his new saw on his arm.

 

[4v shane]

black beauty=great texture for PC to adhere to!

 

[ineedtools]

Thanks to the poster that put up the TS supply link. Going to have to give some of that a go. For those that use glass beads, where are you getting them from?

 

[Will67]

Blast with silica sand and run your air lines with Class 125 PVC....you will save some bucks.

 

[eriksalo]

Blast with silica sand and run your air lines with Class 125 PVC....you will save some bucks.

I had a friend who did his air with PVC. We both thought the safety concerns were overblown. Things went fine for a couple of years. One day he lightly knocked one of the lines with a 2x4 he was carrying. It blew and both popped his eardrum and embedded a bunch of plastic shrapnel into the side of his face and shoulder. Oops.

I used copper for my air lines.

 

[Zeke]

I blast outside in a breeze whether in a cabinet or free blasting. The fine stuff drifts downwind right away.

I know cowboys of the older days didn't always get to ride upwind. They also probably didn't live to be 100 either. Still, I've always figured the body can get rid of a lot of bad stuff if you're not doing it all day, all week.

I was in the fiberglass industry in the 60's. I couldn't bend over to tie my shoes w/o a nose bleed. Somehow I'm 66 and alive. I guess a lot of stuff just doesn't' scare me.

That does not mean to be foolish.

 

[z28snksknr]

man you saftey police are insane. I hope you guys at least work in a field where your knowledge of this stuff is applicable. Every time someone posts something on this board weather its using chrome sockets on impacts, welding a air compressor, not wearing a full face mask with supplied clean oxygen to use a grinder. I mean seriously, you said it once let it go man. If someone wants to use play sand to sand blast let them. God, you goody-to-shoes types on this board act like you read every direction and caution that comes with everything and have never done something dangerous or not recommended by the manufacture.

You have a severely flawed perspective when it comes to the health and well being of your fellow man.

After reading this thread, I will be telling my good friend who still uses silica sand in his blaster that he should not use it anymore. I applaud all of you who give a **** enough to pass on potentially life saving information.

 

[Zaylor]

i fully appreciate it every time the "safety police" point out the dangers with dire warnings and insist on repeating the warnings. I mean this - thank you.

+1

-z

 

[johno]

I need some clarification here.
Sand blast sand is ok but not sand box sand , is that correct?
They are different?

I've been doing some cabinet blasting lately which is why i ask.

 

[mdbeck1]

I need some clarification here.
Sand blast sand is ok but not sand box sand , is that correct?
They are different?

I've been doing some cabinet blasting lately which is why i ask.

From what I've gathered from this site in the time I've been here is that if the bag says it's "sand" and has any mention of silica on it... ...it's bad.

Note: I don't have a sandblaster and have not researched this very much but plan on buying one in the future. Reading this thread is part of that research.

 

[rlsbee]

I only blast in a home built cabinet. I switched from sand (some time ago) due to health concerns. I now use crushed glass (not beads) which is marketed under the name "New Age". I am very satisfied with results but I do not powder coat (yet). It doesn't seem to be as hard on nozzles, the dust in the cabinet is not as bad, and I can blast at much lower PSI.
New Age has a website http://newageblastmedia.com/ and they do a pretty good job of selling their product relative to health concerns.
the product was recently shown in conjunction with a dustless blaster setup on the TV show "My Classic Car".
I don't know how easy it will be to purchase, though. I'm lucky 'cause there is a plant about thirty miles from me. I bought for $7/50 lbs.

 

[Snowbound]

Any Canadians have a good source for media? I bought some alum oxide from Princess Auto but it was $49 per bag.

I'd like some black beauty to do my truck frame.

 

[turbowoodworker]

Reading this thread just amazes me how people disregard safety warnings for conditions that cause chronic diseases like silicosis. When unsafe practices result in immediate injury or death we stand up and make changes to our environment so it doesn't happen again. A recent thread here talked about tire cages and the old split rims. Think cable failures on jobsites and countless other examples. But when we don't feel immediate injury, we could care less. Exposure to those things that cause diseases that only become evident years from now always make us look back and think "I wish I had known that it was unsafe to use that product".
Silicosis shows up years after exposure. COPD occurs after years of smoking. Heart failure takes your life after years of untreated high blood pressure. And the same is true for hearing loss and others.
Bottom line, don't be foolish. Protect yourself when you can. It is not just for you but for your family. Anybody out there missing their dad because he died early from a chronic illness that was preventable should understand this. When we are young we think we get away with things that can still bite us later.
Wood dust is another dangerous thing that is only recently been recognized as dangerous.