Need some help with explanation with wife...

[paris_tj]

Ok we are getting a new a/c for our house.
5 ton unit.
I am leaning towards two units, a American Standard or the Amana, mostly the amana due to the lifetime warranty on the compressor and 10 year on the other. Wife wants to know why we can get a Goodman and save a $1000...

From I know, Goodman is not the best of units, i could be wrong. Any help in how to explain this to here and help me make up my mind?

 

[Wastedwagesracing]

This is just me and might not work for you.. But I would nicely suggest to my wife. If the purchase we're pondering were a kitchen appliance your input is valued. But it's not, so it's not.

 

[paris_tj]

lol, I agree. But I do not want a knuckle sandwich.

 

[SMKS]

Consumer Reports doesn't do testing for central A/C units, but they do have reliability ratings.

Here's the most recent one I could find on central air. It's from 2009.

Taken from CR:

The graph below shows the percentage of units for each of the 11 brands that were ever repaired, based on the experiences of 32,550 readers who bought systems between 2002 and 2008. Differences of less than 5 points aren't meaningful. Units installed by builders broke down more often than owner-installed ones.

 

[Random Guy]

Which model of Amana are you thinking about? The Distinctions line is actually just Goodman equipment with a different label (Goodman owns Amana). However, the higher end Amana stuff is unique to Amana.

 

[paris_tj]

Not sure, was told it was top of the line 14+ 95% model.
$6k grand worth.

 

[jtbinvalrico]

You guys gonna be in this house a while? If you are settling in for the long haul, lean toward the better warranty, and maybe a quieter unit. If you have a shorter stay there, I'd side with her.

 

[Falcon67]

Our 3.5T Goodman (1600 sq/ft) is 10 years old and works well. The new Lennox 4T 14 SEER unit on the 2100 sq/ft house next door was just installed, tested, etc. It's been running for two days and can't get that house under 78F. So - YMMV. Goodman gets decent remarks on the HVAC forums.

 

[Random Guy]

Do you know what color they are supposed to be? The Distinctions stuff is sort of a dark green color, and the Amana stuff is grayish.

 

[brewchief]

In my professional opinion brand is not as important as people like to think, proper sizing and install is key to a long lived A/C. The best equipment you can buy will not last if it is not installed and maintained correctly.

Around here Goodman gets a bad name mostly due to the fact that it available to pretty much anyone, there are lots of guys running around installing it without much training and they simply size it based on what they took out.

Go with the dealer that is going to be able to do the best install and will be there in the future for maintenance.

I would recommend a good media filter for whatever brand you decide on, a system that stays clean will last longer and operate more efficiently.

 

[paris_tj]

Yeah where are staying here, just built two shops and a guest house. The same dealer is giving up both prices, he says the amana is top of the line, and it is what he has in his house. I think that is what I will do, I think I got the wife convinced since after rebates it is only $700 difference.

 

[ddawg16]

Units installed by builders broke down more often than owner-installed ones.

I find that to be the most interesting point.....

 

[toyotadriver]

Most of Goodman's problems are due to the fact that they are more willing to sell to anyone and as a result, some real retards are installing them. Installation is the most important part of any system. Install a top of the line system improperly and it's gonna fail too.

I have a Goodman system in my house and have for the past 3 1/2 years. It has worked great.

I'm hoping to build a new house eventually. I plan to install Goodman...properly.

 

[brewchief]

I find that to be the most interesting point.....

A lot of homes are built with the cheapest systems available, the average guy dealing with an A/C dealer wants better then the absolute cheapest they can find.

Or owner installed might refer to DIY and a lot of people would consider putting a window shaker in a window installing an A/C.

I like where it says differences of less then 5 points aren't meaningful and the whole graph has a 6 point spread.

 

[rickairmedic]

American Standard is Trane . I personally have not been happy with Trane since about 2000 ( for residential equipment ) . I am a Goodman Goodcare dealer and have Goodman equipment in my house . I personally would go with the Amana due to the warranty if this is your forever house . I will point out to watch the fine print on the warranty ( as far as what is required for the lifeteime warranty to be upheld ) . Usually they will require proof that you have had regular yearly maintenance to honor a lifetime warranty . The reason Goodman is so much cheaper than the other brands is really quite simple " ever seen a goodman commercial " . The correct answer is no you have never seen a Goodman commercial as that was one of the founders major decisions early on that he would make a decent piece of equipment at a good price and one of the ways he would do that was to not pay for advertising . Trane,Carrier etc. all spend $100,000,000.00 a year making sure you know their names and therefore have to charge more in order to pay for all that advertising.


Rick

 

[rickairmedic]

Quote:
Units installed by builders broke down more often than owner-installed ones.

I find that to be the most interesting point.....

This does not mean what is says . What it means is that most builders " not all I dont want all the hate mail " but most are cheap bastards and will cut corners anywhere they possibly can to maximise profits . This is not quite as true for most homeowners who are willing to spend a little " a little " more to have things done " right " . The average home in my area built after 1975 has an undersized HVAC system in it and the system was not put in well either . I had this discussion with a homeowner just the other day . He has a 2000 SF house and a cheap 2&1/2 ton system on it . I told him by my calculations on his house he should have had a 3&1/2 ton unit minimum so he was undersized by a full ton of airconditioning from the beginning on a house that is now 20 years old . This is also a home in a higher priced neighborhood oddly enough .


Rick

 

[Falcon67]

Quote:
Units installed by builders broke down more often than owner-installed ones.

The unit next door was installed by a long term local company that advertises heavily on TV and radio. They have good reviews. The Lennox system was dead out of the box, with a bad expansion valve. The system did not have the capability to pump it's self down and the installer didn't have a recovery system on the truck, so it was down a day. The same company installed all the duct work and grills - every F@!#ing grill in that $160+K house is crooked. Punk kids in logo'ed work shirts with iPods in their ears that don't really give a **** about a good job.

So yes, the company backing up the system is very, very important.

 

[rvr6000]

I had a new Goodman furnace and AC unit installed in April. Granted it has only been a few months but last summer was relatively cool compared to this summer but my electric bill has been noticeably smaller than last.

My house is roughly 2000 square feet (including basement) and I have a 3 ton system.

 

[justsam]

I lived in Dallas area for 12 years in a 5K sq ft home. We were original owners of a production built home, (David Weekley). The home had three AC units, up, down, and master bedroom. All three were Goodman, "builder" quality.

In the 12 years we lived there one coil failed, leaked, one blower capacitor, and two capacitors in two different condenser fan units. All units were heat pumps. I do not know if this is a good or bad experience as the units did get a very good work out in the Texas heat.

One thing I did observe is that most of the homes that were built by the same builder and used Goodman, still had the original units. The other builder in the development was Drees, which used Lennox. Many of the Lennox units were replaced. May well have been a difference in installation quality.

I too got the message that the trade did not like Goodman, not sure if it an issue of margins, too few free lunches, or what the mattter really is. They were Janitrol at one time, which had a reputation of being called Junkatrol by the trade.

Clearly I am not a professional however I would insist on who ever does the job that they do an honest calculation and explain the results to you.

 

[xrdad]

So how to you spec an A/C system? If install is often the issue, what are the criteria to installing the correct set up?

 

[Falcon67]

So how to you spec an A/C system? If install is often the issue, what are the criteria to installing the correct set up?

http://www.energysavers.gov/your_home/space_heating_cooling/index.cfm/mytopic=12340

"
Manual J and Manual D: The Correct Way to Size a System

Correct system sizing requires considering many factors other than simply reading the nameplate of the existing unit. Key factors for correctly sizing a heating and cooling system include the following:

• The local climate
• Size, shape, and orientation of the house
• Insulation levels
• Window area, location, and type
• Air infiltration rates
• The number and ages of occupants
• Occupant comfort preferences
• The types and efficiencies of lights and major home appliances (which give off heat).

Homeowners should insist that contractors use a correct sizing calculation before signing a contract. This service is often offered at little or no cost to homeowners by gas and electric utilities, major heating equipment manufacturers, and conscientious heating and air conditioning contractors. Manual J, "Residential Load Calculation," published by the Air Conditioning Contractors of America (ACCA), is the recommended method for use in the United States. There are also many user-friendly computer software packages or worksheets that can simplify the calculation procedure. You should make sure that the procedure used by the contractor follows Manual J.
If ducts are part of the installation, they should be sized using the ACCA's Manual D, "Residential Duct Design." The ACCA also offers a comprehensive guide for choosing home heating and cooling systems, called Manual S, "Residential Equipment Selection.""

 

[Cobra6]

Which model of Amana are you thinking about? The Distinctions line is actually just Goodman equipment with a different label (Goodman owns Amana). However, the higher end Amana stuff is unique to Amana.

This is the deal - a lot of people don't realize that Goodman owns Amana.

I think the Amana quality is good right now - Trane has slipped some.
I plan to replace one of my units with an Amana unit within the year.

 

[tpwalsh]

Installation is key.

The ductwork must be capable of supporting 5 tons of airflow. You may think that is a "duh" moment, but rest assured, it is not.





Your statistics are skewed.

Goodman is the largest manufacturer of HVAC equipment in the USA. Therefore, there are more Goodman pieces of equipment out there than anyone else.

Goodman is no better or worse than any other manufacturer using non-proprietary parts.

It comes down to installation.

No dog in the fight, but per the original poster of that graphic, it's a percentage, not numbers of failures. More installations just means a bigger sample size, and generally a better statistic.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Which model of Amana are you thinking about? The Distinctions line is actually just Goodman equipment with a different label (Goodman owns Amana). However, the higher end Amana stuff is unique to Amana.

I was told the same thing (Goodman = Amana) by several professionals when shopping for a new furnace last fall.

 

[Maulerman]

As far as sizing goes I use one of two methods:

1) the Ford, Chevy, Cadillac method, if there is a Ford in the driveway I size a 1-1/2 ton system, a Chevy gets a 2 ton system and a Cadillac gets a 3 ton system.

2) the finger method, I stand across the street and hold my hand about 6" in front of my face. The number of fingers it takes to block my vision of the house indicates the number of tons of AC needed.

Matt

 

[wornoutoldman]

First you gotta get the shots of Tequila going..... ooops wrong thread.... I thought you said " Need some help with experimentation with wife"....