contractor question

[OIIIIIIIO]

Hi,

I'm having someone do garage doors for me...had him bid doors, openers and installation...

Came back a little more than I wanted to spend...

He bid it doors and installation and opener with installation...

I know what I can get a comparable door for at Menards...significantly cheaper than his door and installation price because obviously Menards isn't installing the door...

Would it be reasonable for me to ask him to break down the cost on his quote for me, or just come out and ask him what he'd charge for installation of stuff if I went out and bought it?

This is an individual who works on his own...

Maybe it'll come back it would be cheaper to get everything from him, but I don't think it will be...

Thoughts?

Thanks!
Patrick

 

[brownbagg]

when a contractor bid a job, he has workman comp, tools, unemployemnet insurance, profit, material, labor, time running for material in his bid. when you see doors at the local box store. it doesnt have all that in it. so when you hire a contractor you are hiring a warrenty.

so either pay the price or get someone else, or do it yourself. But the breakdown doesnt have any concern for you because its a turn key job.

 

[back2class]

When I was a contractor, someone trying to buy my materials was most often a PIA customer. I had my perfered products, and customers ALWAYS purchased some cheap **** that cost me time and was often the wrong item. After a few times of doing that I just would tell people no. Most of the time customer who wanted to nickle and dime were difficult...always thinking you were screwing them somehow. You are better off just getting him to do the job, then since you know so much, put the doors up yourself.

 

[paullie]

yes it is reasonable to TELL them to break it down for you, most guys don't do the you buy it, and i install it, it just becomes a pain in the hinny, put em up yourself it's not that hard, don't know about menards but at lowes/homedepot they have a "we will instal for $XXXX"

 

[Stuart in MN]

He has to charge you more for the door than you could buy it yourself, so he can make some profit.

 

[jstroede]

Let's start with this...what is he quoting, and how much? You might think they are comparable, but they very well may not be.

If I do doors for someone, I will charge about double what I normally do if they want to provide the materials, and I'm not doing it as a business. It is just the PITA factor.

John

 

[OIIIIIIIO]

I'm trying to not be a huge PIA which is why I ask the question (though if you ask my wife, I'm always a PIA)...just trying to make sure I have proper ettiquite (sp?)...

I figured if he broke down the quote into installation and doors, I'm sure if I bought doors myself, installation would be more than if he supplied the doors and installation...

I admit to penny pinching...this build is way over budget and I'm just trying to brainstorm ways to save money...yes installing them myself would be an option to save money...but not a very good one quality wise...

One part of the job is garage door openers...I asked him to bid the liftmaster 3800...$410 installed each...I can get them on Amazon for $300 ea...not installed of course...so in my non-contractor mind, no way it will cost $200 to install them so I could save money...but I'm not sure how much...$100? $25?...either case, not a lot of money...but when I think about doors and their cost and maybe save $1000 for the big door and $500 for the little door I again think with my non-contractor mind...it won't cost $1500 to install those doors...but...again, I don't think about the track, the bracketry, the contractors overhead, etc...

Again...just trying to brainstorm...and figured I'd probably just have him do it all because I'm guessing I wouldn't really save all that much money when I "ran the numbers"

 

[holdover]

a break down is not out of the question, but I prefer to use products that I trust. I associate it with bringing your own bacon and eggs to a restaurant and asking them to cook them for you. Often the product at the big box stores in not the same quality that the pros use, sometime it is, but talk it over with the guy and see what he says. In these tight times maybe he'll work with you.

 

[1fastvx]

Usually I would not comment on these topics, but I just had to reply to this one. We all like to save a buck, but damn you are being cheap!! You think it is a lot for the guy to charge you $220 for the install of the openers? His gas just to get to the jobsite probably chews up a good portion of that install money. To me that sounds like a great price.

John

I'm trying to not be a huge PIA which is why I ask the question (though if you ask my wife, I'm always a PIA)...just trying to make sure I have proper ettiquite (sp?)...

I figured if he broke down the quote into installation and doors, I'm sure if I bought doors myself, installation would be more than if he supplied the doors and installation...

I admit to penny pinching...this build is way over budget and I'm just trying to brainstorm ways to save money...yes installing them myself would be an option to save money...but not a very good one quality wise...

One part of the job is garage door openers...I asked him to bid the liftmaster 3800...$410 installed each...I can get them on Amazon for $300 ea...not installed of course...so in my non-contractor mind, no way it will cost $200 to install them so I could save money...but I'm not sure how much...$100? $25?...either case, not a lot of money...but when I think about doors and their cost and maybe save $1000 for the big door and $500 for the little door I again think with my non-contractor mind...it won't cost $1500 to install those doors...but...again, I don't think about the track, the bracketry, the contractors overhead, etc...

Again...just trying to brainstorm...and figured I'd probably just have him do it all because I'm guessing I wouldn't really save all that much money when I "ran the numbers"

 

[larry_g]

I have had perty good luck with asking what dumb labor I can do the reduce the bottom line. I can clean up, remove old doors, do the foot work to pick up parts? Be straight with the guy and pay him for his expertice, but you do the dumb labor.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[ConCretin]

If you want to ensure you are not being taken advantage of, get two or three bids, You are wasting time trying to outsmart the contractor by asking for 'breakdowns' or buying materials. You won't win that battle.

 

[ddawg16]

My dad was a mechanic and was glad to install parts supplied by the customer....but he would tell them...."If you buy the part and I install it and the part fails, you will be charged labor to replace it. If I buy the part and it fails, it costs you nothing. Which way do you want to go?"

 

[mrobins297aaa]

I think $410 for a 3800 installed is a great price.
I bought mind on ebay for $325 and it took me most of the day to install it.

 

[jtbinvalrico]

As was mentioned.....the best way to get the best price on a professionally installed door, is to get multiple bids. Including a "do-it-yourself" scenario in the bid process is like comparing apples to oranges....Why? Because the pro labor is as much a product as the door itself.

That said.....I recommend you hunt down a friend or two who have hung a door and and put another notch on your do-it-yourself belt

 

[ket-tek]

Yeah $410 installed doesn't sound bad for the opener..

Asking for a price breakdown is reasonable. But it will cause tension when you start trying to supply the materials after you've gotten him to bid the job already.

Yes, you can most likely get a better price on anything out there than a local outfit will sell it to you for. If that's something you want to do it's better to just go ahead and buy 2 doors and 2 openers, then start calling around after you have it on site and ask for bids on installing what you've got. Less ill feelings than when bringing it up later, and you'll need no breakdown cause it's all labor.

 

[darkk]

Why not get several estimates to compare? Some people are just plain out of the ballpark with their prices. We got 5 estimate for drywall installed in our garage addition. The highest and lowest were $5500 difference. I asked the lowest guy why his was so much lower than the others. His answer was pretty simple. He said, I quoted you at the standard rate for drywall. I added $500 to the cost of the job because you want 5/8" on everything and it's a little more work on my guys. Those other drywall contracors have had a bad winter season and are trying to make up for lost business by bidding high. I got the job done, materials,installed,taped and sanded ready for paint at a reasonable cost which worked out to about $33.50 a sheet. The highest bidder wanted around $55.00 a sheet for his work. Competition is good for business...

 

[danski0224]

Hi,

I'm having someone do garage doors for me...had him bid doors, openers and installation...

Came back a little more than I wanted to spend...

He bid it doors and installation and opener with installation...

I know what I can get a comparable door for at Menards...significantly cheaper than his door and installation price because obviously Menards isn't installing the door...

Would it be reasonable for me to ask him to break down the cost on his quote for me, or just come out and ask him what he'd charge for installation of stuff if I went out and bought it?

This is an individual who works on his own...

Maybe it'll come back it would be cheaper to get everything from him, but I don't think it will be...

Thoughts?

Thanks!
Patrick

Some of the stuff sold at big box stores is NOT the same.

Prehung door slabs at Menards are 1/4" narrower than a standard slab. Don't believe me? Go measure them.

I doubt that the garage door comparison between the Menards offering and what a pro door installer gets is the same- or even close (unless he is buying the stuff from a big box store).

One big box has a killer deal on garage door opener installation, but they subsidize the installer rates to hide the true cost and provide consumers with a better "deal". The same thing is happening with the $39 carpet installs and cabinet promos.

Unless the items are exactly the same, you do not know where the difference is.

 

[Falcon67]

My dad was a mechanic and was glad to install parts supplied by the customer....but he would tell them...."If you buy the part and I install it and the part fails, you will be charged labor to replace it. If I buy the part and it fails, it costs you nothing. Which way do you want to go?"

This. If you want to buy the door, buy it. Then get a re-quote for install only. That's fair, because then he can choose not to take your job. You can pretty easy hire a roofing guy or two to put on your materials, but don't expect any kind of warranty on the job. I paid $200 for a 7 square roof install including flashing and paper, just by chance conversation.

Not sure about your quote, but - A 16' door from HD is $536 plus tax. The nice opener in our garage was $190 on sale. It'll take me maybe 3-4 hours to install a 16' door and about 3 to do an opener, so say it eats up an 8 hour day. Maybe your contractor needs $50/hr to cover business items - maybe 60~100 depending on what part of the country. You're easily at $1200 or better even if you buy the parts.

 

[Zeke]

Some of the stuff sold at big box stores is NOT the same.

Prehung door slabs at Menards are 1/4" narrower than a standard slab. Don't believe me? Go measure them.

While the rest of your post is true in some cases because of spec buying, you don't know a thing about doors. Why do you think they call those doors "pre-fit?" Ever try to hang a 30" door in a 30" jamb? First thing you do is plane and bevel 2 edges. Now your door is 29 3/4 and will swing freely.

To the OP: you said the build was way over budget and you were just trying to pencil things out. While you probably should have had you pencil out way before this, the best thing to do is simply tell the door installer what you told us and let him give you an education. He may soften up a bit or he may blow you off. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, especially it you are being honest.

Big difference between honest and being a PITA.

 

[jstroede]

$410 installed for a 3800 is very fair. If you want a 3800 and you don't take that, you are a fool.

What was quoted for the rest of the doors?

John

 

[danski0224]

While the rest of your post is true in some cases because of spec buying, you don't know a thing about doors. Why do you think they call those doors "pre-fit?" Ever try to hang a 30" door in a 30" jamb? First thing you do is plane and bevel 2 edges. Now your door is 29 3/4 and will swing freely.

Um, go measure the prehung doors at HD and at Menards.

One place, the slabs in the jamb are 30", and the other you will find 29-3/4".

This is for prehung doors.

Slabs, well, I have pretty much seen the same pattern.

I have never measured a 29-3/4" door in a "newer" house with prehung doors.

Yes, sometimes there is a 3* bevel cut so the door opens and closes smoothly.