Impact sockets vs. Chrome sockets on an impact gun...

[WRX/Z28]

I remember reading a manufacturers guide for a 1/2" impact, and something saying that the hardness of a chrome socket will damage the anvil in an impact gun, and to only use impact sockets. I always figured that an impact would crack a hardened chrome socket, but never thought of it damaging the gun.

I know a lot of guys are buying the 3/8" and 1/2" HF impacts. Are you guys using true impact sockets? or is everyone just using the chrome stuff and crossing your fingers?

From my understanding, Impact sockets are much softer and have more elasticity to them. I've also been told that's the same reason you shouldn't use them on a ratchet. Basically that you lose some of your manual torque through the impact socket.

How about on air ratchets? Impact or chrome?

Any input on this?

 

[DrkMtnDew]

if you look around at pawn shops you will notice that there are many chrome sockets out there that have been beat to snot by an impact. the impact sockets are softer allow them to take the hit of an impact without turning into a grenade. as far as sockets on an air ratchet, i use chrome as an air ratchet doesn't impact.

 

[greasemonkey44]

i know you can grenade a chrome on impact; also the chrome can flake and get driven into your hand if you arent careful
im looking at getting the duo sockets from GP, seems to be a good balance

 

[rlitman]

The impact socket's thicker walls also transfer more torque to the fastener.
I keep chrome sockets around though, because their thinner walls can fit into things that impact sockets cannot, and they're easier on the hands. I just don't use chrome sockets with a 1/2" impact gun.

 

[WRX/Z28]

What about damaging the impact gun with a chrome socket? Supposedly you can damage the anvil...

 

[smogtech]

Definitely impact on impacts I would rather not have a chrome grenade and take out my eye ball at least shell out 30 bucks for the HF impact sockets, they hold out well the 1/2in at least.

I had a bad experience with the HF 3/8 cracked one of the sockets on a snapon mg31 after tightening. Up some struts.

 

[smogtech]

What about damaging the impact gun with a chrome socket? Supposedly you can damage the anvil...

Never heard about that till today.

 

[back2class]

You would have to be a monser to flex an impact socket using a hand ratchet so I am going to call that just silly in the real world, though possibe with enough complex math.

I use impacts on 1/2 impact gun. Sold my 3/4 impact gun because my 1/2 Ir TI puts out as much power as the old 3//4" CP. Never use chrome on 1/2 impact unless rare event for side clearance. Then just take precautions like gloves and goggles.

I use chrome 3/4" drive sockets with my 1/2 impact gun. even with 1000lbs. of torque...I do not worry about my Proto sockets failing. Obvioulsy I am not using 3/4 drive every day with an impact gun, so for limited use having a impact set in 3/4 drive is pointless. Everyday...I would get impact sockets in 3/4 drive ad a killer 3/4 impact gun.

I use chrome on my 3/8 impact gun...but it is not super powerful and rarely used...so once again, how much you use them is important. My 200lb. torque 3/8 impact is not going to turn a chrome socket into a hazzard...though in time it will beat up the chrome and that can be bad. I am not a tool polisher, so some slight cosmetic damage from the impact anvil hitting the inside of the socket is a non issue....since it will be limited if for no other reason than my limited use. Use it every day and impacts make sense here, though not a hazzard issue like chromes on a good 1/2 impact. I hear some of the new 3/8 guns are pretty balsy, so it may be a saftey issue there.

Plenty of pros use chrome on air ratchets all day every day, though impacts are recomended. I believe this is completely prefrence. A few people will be bothered by the minor "damage" it may cause to chrome sockets but most people just consider it wear.


This question is very dependent on how you use your tools. You certainly don't need to avoid chrome at all times on air tools.

 

[blacK20]

Not so much the anvil itself, but the retaining ring on the end of the anvil will get chewed up and worn much quicker due to the sharper edges and hardness of the chrome.

 

[DrkMtnDew]

What about damaging the impact gun with a chrome socket? Supposedly you can damage the anvil...

i'm just guessing on this until i hear different as well, but it looks to me that by the way the chrome sockets i've seen are mushroomed out the anvil has to be a lot harder. on the other hand if you use nothing but chrome sockets on the same gun for 30+ years...who knows...

 

[canuckian]

IMHO I'd Just use impact sockets on an impact gun and be done with it. They're fairly inexpensive so why chance it? They designed and make impact sockets for a reason - to use on impact guns. sure most people go their whole lifetime using chrome but there's always a chance of one exploding. Not a chance I'm willing to take.

 

[Altec]

I remember reading a manufacturers guide for a 1/2" impact, and something saying that the hardness of a chrome socket will damage the anvil in an impact gun, and to only use impact sockets. I always figured that an impact would crack a hardened chrome socket, but never thought of it damaging the gun.

I know a lot of guys are buying the 3/8" and 1/2" HF impacts. Are you guys using true impact sockets? or is everyone just using the chrome stuff and crossing your fingers?

From my understanding, Impact sockets are much softer and have more elasticity to them. I've also been told that's the same reason you shouldn't use them on a ratchet. Basically that you lose some of your manual torque through the impact socket.

How about on air ratchets? Impact or chrome?

Any input on this?

I use a mix of non-impact, and impact sockets. Mainly Snap-on non-impacts, and Mac impacts. I have no issue using a chrome plated socket on a impact. I just make sure to keep my hand off the socket while it is a spinning. Impact wrench wear? The IR 3/8, and 1/2 I use are over 16 years old getting this treatment their entire life with no wear that is out of the ordinary. Increased socket retention wear possible...

No doubt moly impact sockets are better for impact use, but I just don't own impacts in some sizes... like 1/2 SAE, or any 3/8. Haha. If you have the means to own both CR-V sockets, and Moly, then I suggest it... Not the end of the world though. At least with quality chrome...

You brought up HF impacts. Something to consider is that a good percentage of HF impact sockets are CR-V. To put it simply, they are chromes, without the chrome and a slightly thicker wall... the GP Duo sockets are the same.

 

[greybeard]

IMHO I'd Just use impact sockets on an impact gun and be done with it. They're fairly inexpensive so why chance it? They designed and make impact sockets for a reason - to use on impact guns. sure most people go their whole lifetime using chrome but there's always a chance of one exploding. Not a chance I'm willing to take.

^^This makes sense.

 

[WRX/Z28]

IMHO I'd Just use impact sockets on an impact gun and be done with it. They're fairly inexpensive so why chance it? They designed and make impact sockets for a reason - to use on impact guns. sure most people go their whole lifetime using chrome but there's always a chance of one exploding. Not a chance I'm willing to take.

I own impact sockets. I'm not asking if it's ok to use chrome, simply trying to ascertain what is affected. I'm sure we've all used chrome on an impact at some point, likely because an impact didn't fit, or wasn't available.

I'm sure lots of people just use chromes without understanding the differences...

 

[canuckian]

oh ok my bad I thought you were thinking on using chrome on an impact. My position still stands but as to what's affected, unless the socket explodes or the chrome peels off, I doubt much would be affected at all. over time, I'm sure the less forgiving harder chrome socket may have some affect on the drive end of the gun or contribute to some premature internal wear but by the time that kind of thing happens it's probably time to rebuild or replace the gun anyways.

as for the air ratchets, I use whatever's handy becuase as someone said earlier, there's no impact with a ratchet, unless youre using an IR hammerhead.

 

[Altec]

The main area I notice wear is the retaining ring. Those are a wear item anyway, and can easily be replaced. Past that, I believe improper oiling does more damage then chrome does...

 

[diesel research]

This is why if a new wrencher can only afford one set, he might consider a set of impacts as first investment. I use almost strictly impact sockets on everything from 1/4 hex impactor to 3/8 to 1/2, 3/4, 1", and #5 spline impacts, along with associated ratchets/air ratchets/breaker bars/nut driver handle.

Basically if it fits, impact is what it gets. My 1/2" 12pt impact socket is scarred almost to the point of grooving because it barely fits, but equivalent chrome can and has exploded plenty of times. Lots of the rest of the guys use chrome craftsman socket for that application. Most everyone of them has shattered, even when using hand breaker bars or ratchets. They all come looking for my socket, I am going to start charging $2 for it even though the socket only cost $5 brand new.

________________________

On the other hand, I have come over to help these guys with various tasks and end up using their impacts for what ever reason. You can instantly tell they have been using chrome extensions or sockets because nothing fits on the drive square and sockets fling off at will. Take a look at the snap ring and notice the oring underneath is destroyed or missing.

Know another guy that uses a stubby impact extension when resorting to chrome sockets. Seems to have a bit of luck with that technique although sockets still get destroyed, especially on the drive end.

 

[Skin]

I own impact sockets. I'm not asking if it's ok to use chrome, simply trying to ascertain what is affected.

you mushroom the drive on the chrome sockets after enough use. About it.


on an aside you should never hold the socket while its impacting, be it chrome or impact.

 

[soob]

I don't own a set of 1/2" chrome sockets. Never really saw the need for it. Hell, I didn't even own a set of 1/2s until I got an impact.

 

[diesel research]

you mushroom the drive on the chrome sockets after enough use. About it.

That is just the beginning. Chrome flaking, worn edges on 12pts, and eventual cracks or explosions.

Not sure why, but the cracks often don't show up right away, and later show up during a slow hard pull with a breaker or ratchet.

That isn't so much the issue at hand. It is the O ring under the retaining ring that ends up missing. Some brands of sockets eat up rings more than other brands. Then sockets sling off, flop around, or loosely fall off.

Can find half a dozen guns used on a professional basis, with such wear, to counter any of the "it never happened to me" guys.

When we hear of anvil wear, most probably think of the internal hammer, but instead they are talking of the square drive and piece inside that is struck by the hammer. Internal piece isn't wearing so much (if greased properly) nor is the square drive itself, but the retaining mechanism.

 

[Indy_500]

you should never hold the socket while its impacting, be it chrome or impact.

I was thinking the same thing after reading all these guys who made it sound like they held the socket.

 

[pipsters]

Go look at the cheaper impact sockets, they are made of the same kind of metal as chrome sockets. Just thicker. Chrome Vanadium. Any of the thin impact sockets don't carry a warranty, seems like the thickness is really what matters.

Chrome molybdenum (CR-MO) impact sockets are actually vanadium with trace amounts of molybdenum added. From my understanding this makes them "less brittle", although you can interpret that to mean "softer". Kinda in the same way ice is very hard, but also brittle.

I have in the past used chrome sockets on my impact, and noticed that they don't deform as much as my SK and Craftsman impacts.

 

[greybeard]

Not being a metal expert, I'm only guessing the reason for the 2 different types of sockets. From what has already been written, the consensus is that chrome sockets are harder and more brittle. Good for slow steady torque but, the sharp pounding of an impact tool will probably cause minute cracks to form and the socket will eventually fail due to metal fatigue. On the other hand an impact socket is usually thicker and less brittle and is designed to take the pounding of an impact tool without fatiguing the metal. I'm talking about professional grade sockets, not the cheap stuff. Is using a quality chrome socket once in a while on an impact tool due to space limitations gonna hurt anything? Probably not. Is there any reason to not use impact sockets on a regular ratchet or breaker bar? I can't think of any.

Here is a link to another forum where this is being discussed.
http://forum.ih8mud.com/tools-fabrication/387024-impact-sockets-vs-regular-sockets.html

 

[Virgil Cain]

Go look at the cheaper impact sockets, they are made of the same kind of metal as chrome sockets. Just thicker. Chrome Vanadium. Any of the thin impact sockets don't carry a warranty, seems like the thickness is really what matters.

Chrome molybdenum (CR-MO) impact sockets are actually vanadium with trace amounts of molybdenum added. From my understanding this makes them "less brittle", although you can interpret that to mean "softer". Kinda in the same way ice is very hard, but also brittle.

I have in the past used chrome sockets on my impact, and noticed that they don't deform as much as my SK and Craftsman impacts.

Being made of the same material isn't the whole story. You can have two sockets of the same material that have been heat treated to different hardnesses.

If chrome sockets are treated to a higher hardness, that would make them more likely to experience brittle failure and fracture. I suspect that the main difference is final hardness and wall thickness. I personally would not use a chrome socket on an impact wrench. Decent impact sockets are not that expensive but eyes are.

 

[smalltruck]

Diesel research makes a good point. The wear that happens is often on the square of the anvil that you slide the socket on. Just behind the corner towards the center you will find a groove worn there. Here is where the difference between Snap-on and Cornwell sockets and everyone else show up. Everyone elses sockets are slightly harder steel so the drive end won't get beat up as fast as the SO or Cornwell. That wear has to happen somewhere so its the impact that takes the hit.

 

[franzdom]

Being made of the same material isn't the whole story. You can have two sockets of the same material that have been heat treated to different hardnesses.

If chrome sockets are treated to a higher hardness, that would make them more likely to experience brittle failure and fracture. I suspect that the main difference is final hardness and wall thickness. I personally would not use a chrome socket on an impact wrench. Decent impact sockets are not that expensive but eyes are.

Never say never. When you just need to get something done you calculate the risk and if not too high, you get it done.

 

[Ponyhntr]

Yes, the square end of the anvil can and does get warn out because of chrome socket usage... I see it all the time.

 

[diesel research]

I have in the past used chrome sockets on my impact, and noticed that they don't deform as much as my SK and Craftsman impacts.

Cman and kobalt impact sockets seem exceptionally soft. Snap on square end is pretty soft like another poster mentioned.

Soft is not the way to interpret good chrome molybdenum. "tough" is a better description.

Racing and aerospace depend on chromo alloys like 4140 and 4340 to withstand great abuse in crankshafts, piston pins, bolts, and connecting rods. Not because it is "soft" but because it is "tough". When top fuel desires a "soft" connecting rod to soften impact on rod bearings (and save weight) aluminum is spec'ed. Also used for roll cages, definitely NOT because it is "soft". In those cases, it has a higher strength than standard steel for a given dimension OR the same strength (and less weight) by using a thinner tube.

It isn't used in firearms because of being "soft" either.

A alloy can both be "hard" yet "tough" at the same time.

CrMo is used due to "fracture resistance" or the ability to resist existing cracks from growing. Little to do with "hard" or "soft" and that can be left up to the individual manufacturer. If they only wanted it to be softer they could heat treat to a lesser extent, anneal, reduce carbon, or add a variety of other elements.

This also excludes abrasion or wear resistance. A separate factor controllable by manufacturer.

 

[wafrederick]

I broke a 3/8" drive deepwell chrome socket once with an 1/2 impact.It never shattered at all and was attached to a 1/2 to 3/8 adaptor.Same with my attachments and adaptors,impact only and never ruined the anvil ever since.

 

[pipsters]

Cman and kobalt impact sockets seem exceptionally soft. Snap on square end is pretty soft like another poster mentioned.

Soft is not the way to interpret good chrome molybdenum. "tough" is a better description.

Racing and aerospace depend on chromo alloys like 4140 and 4340 to withstand great abuse in crankshafts, piston pins, bolts, and connecting rods. Not because it is "soft" but because it is "tough". When top fuel desires a "soft" connecting rod to soften impact on rod bearings (and save weight) aluminum is spec'ed. Also used for roll cages, definitely NOT because it is "soft". In those cases, it has a higher strength than standard steel for a given dimension OR the same strength (and less weight) by using a thinner tube.

It isn't used in firearms because of being "soft" either.

A alloy can both be "hard" yet "tough" at the same time.

CrMo is used due to "fracture resistance" or the ability to resist existing cracks from growing. Little to do with "hard" or "soft" and that can be left up to the individual manufacturer. If they only wanted it to be softer they could heat treat to a lesser extent, anneal, reduce carbon, or add a variety of other elements.

This also excludes abrasion or wear resistance. A separate factor controllable by manufacturer.

Doing some reading, it appears as though CRV has a higher tensile strength than CRMO used in impact sockets.

From my research, I'm finding that CRV is not ideal for impact use due to its brittleness. It's incredibly hard, but like cement can easily shatter if subjected to something like an impact. My guess is it's much cheaper, however, so companies like HF use it in great quantities to overcome it's brittleness.

What we see as "tougher" in CRMO, is actually the socket giving under stress *just a bit*. Not enough to notice, but it allows the socket to have some elasticity therefore not shattering it like you a block of ice.

 

[darkk]

You will notice that impact sockets are thicker than the chrome. Chrome sockets seem to break much faster when used on an impact gun....

 

[franzdom]

Grey Pneumatic is a very nice compromise, not very thick, probably not up to every day impact use but they are very nice for 3/8" lighter duty impact work.

 

[otis66]

What about damaging the impact gun with a chrome socket? Supposedly you can damage the anvil...

You should be more concerned about the chrome socket exploding like a grenade.

 

[otis66]

What about damaging the impact gun with a chrome socket? Supposedly you can damage the anvil...

You should be more concerned about the chrome socket exploding like a grenade. A good set of impact sockets are well worth the money.

 

[G1GRANDEUR]

My friend uses chrome socket on his 3/8 impact gun all the time. But only in 10,12mm that does not required high torque.

I even broke 10mm chrome socket onetime by using air ratchet.

And no, I have not seen anvil damage due to using chrome sockets.