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Instant DHW

nate379

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Any know how this works?

http://www.watts.com/pages/_products_details.asp?pid=6677

There is a valve that ties the hot and cold together.

I bought it, my kitchen is far from the water heater, takes a good 2-3 mins of running the hot water till I get hot water.

I'm just sitting here trying to figure it out. Only think I can guess is that is sends hot water through the cold side until the water gets hot?
 
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MartyO

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I am no expert but basically it forces the hot, at a slight higher pressure level, across the cold side supply so that hot is always available on demand.

The flat, grey Y in teh figure (below) the pump acts as the valve for doing this and the pump delivers teh higher pressure on the hot side.

Some of the pumps allow you to set a timer for the demand times (say morning when everyone showers).

I have this set up in my house and it is the shiznit.


EDIT: the pictures set up appears to have the timer.
 
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nate379

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Yeah I am just going to have it go one and off every hour or so. No set schedule most of the time so I might use the sink at 10AM, 2AM, midnight, etc.
 
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nate379

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Well of course the "installs in 1 hr" isn't true huh?

My water tank is piped in, no flexy lines. I buy the fittings, cut the pipe, then realize that the 2 of the 1" fittings I bought were 1.25". Labeled 1" on the bag, but wrong product inside. NIBCO fittings too.

Had to haul *** to work, so I shut all the water down, leave a note stuck to the door for the renter about water is off, but I have ~10 gals of drinking water in the pantry and there is water in the toilet tanks so can only flush once each.

She calls me... "ah the water isn't working??".

"Did you read the note, I'll have it back on in the morning".

"What note?".

She's all pissed about not being to get in a shower... wimmens... they need like 6 showers a day I guess? Not sure what she is going to do once winter hits? We loose power every winter for several days at a time, last year was 4 days. Well no water if there is no power. (working on getting that fixed... I pay $50/month to be on a community well)

Calls me back later, found the note, I put it too high on the door and she didn't see it... :eyecrazy::eyecrazy:

White door, yellow sticky note, at eye level. Ok, eye level to me, I'm ~6ft and she is like 4.5ft, but still talk about some serious blinders!!... Makes me wonder what she is bouncing off of while driving!
 
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Greatbear

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Columbia/Fulton, MD
I bought one of these, but installed it differently than instructed. The setup works by attaching a pump to the water heater outlet, and at the sink farthest from the water heater you attach a special regulating valve between the hot and cold supply lines, creating a bypass and circulating loop. The valve allows water to flow between the hot and cold connections, the pump pushes the hot water along the supply line up to the sink with the regulating valve, the standing cold water in the hot water line flows into the cold line and returns to the water heater. Once the hot water reaches the valve, a thermostat inside it closes, preventing hot water from continuing to flow back down the cold water supply line to the water heater.

As you can probably surmise, the system is not without a bit of a fault by design. In order to "rotate" a decent amount of hot water up to the most distant point of use (all the other sinks, tubs, etc in between will have the hot water nearby as the system does its job), there has to be decent flow. This valve has a thermostat as I mentioned earlier. If you turn on the water at the spigot and await the hot water, you know it will slowly begin to warm before it reaches the highest temperature, since the column of hot water arriving must heat all the plumbing it is traveling through. The control valve/regulator must allow a certain amount of water to flow back down the cold water line in order to bring heat through the entire hot line. As the water begins to warm, some of this begins traveling back down the cold line before the thermostat closes. This leave some "warm" water in the cold line that some people might object to. It's not "hot", but it is noticeably warm for an instant when you open the cold side of the faucet. Also, once the hot line has been "primed" with hot water and the thermostat closes, the flow is stopped, leaving the pipes to cool off. Of course, the thermostat opens a bit, allows the water to move slowly, but, again, you end up with lukewarm water in the hot line and tepid water in the cold.

It's recommended that the hot line be insulated to make the most of the system. I went a step further and installed a return line from the most distant point of use, all the way back to the water heater, and installed the valve nearest the water heater in a simple flow-through fashion. This works best, but I had access in my basement in order to run the additional line. All pipes, hot, return and cold, are insulated. In my case, the thermostatic valve is not necessary anymore, but the valve also contains a check valve that prevents reversed flow of cold water into the return when hot water is in use.

It's a simple system, really, but explaining it is, well, difficult. :lol:

The pump also has a timer used to turn the circulation on and off based on the most likely times you'd be wanting hot water readily available during the day and night. In the middle of the night, for example, there would be no need for instant hot water when people are asleep. Shutting the circulator off saves some energy from heat lost by hot water standing in long runs of pipe.
 

Todd.Brock

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So its constantly moving hot water through the lines so you have it when you need it. Thats slick. I need to see what they run price wise.
 
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z28snksknr

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Turnersville, NJ
My on-demand water heater has some provisions for a hot water circulation system. I wonder if it's a similar process to this.
 

Jackfre

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Be careful with recirc on dhw systems. If it is a constant circ it may cost you more for heat loss off the piping than the cost of your hot water. I would check out the metlund system. It is an on demand system that works only when you make the call or with a wireless call.
 
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nate379

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The kit was $200. It's got a timer, I set it up to run 15 mins every hour. I will see how that works and adjust as needed. The pump is a 25 watt pump, so little electric use. Some energy lost through the water cooling in the pipes, not sure how much that will be, but I think it's worth not having to run the water for several mins until the water warms up.... Most of the time at the kitchen I have enough time to wash my hands at full hot... by the time I'm done the water is only getting warm.
 

MartyO

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The kit was $200. It's got a timer, I set it up to run 15 mins every hour. I will see how that works and adjust as needed. The pump is a 25 watt pump, so little electric use. Some energy lost through the water cooling in the pipes, not sure how much that will be, but I think it's worth not having to run the water for several mins until the water warms up.... Most of the time at the kitchen I have enough time to wash my hands at full hot... by the time I'm done the water is only getting warm.

I have electric hot water.

I run the pump 24/7 after trying sequences but have seen no noticeable energy savings.
 
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nate379

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Didn't buy it to save energy, bought it so I don't have to run the water for what seams like 5 mins before it gets warm. Have enough time to wash my hands on full hot and it might be just getting warm by the time I'm done.
 

MartyO

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Didn't buy it to save energy, bought it so I don't have to run the water for what seams like 5 mins before it gets warm. Have enough time to wash my hands on full hot and it might be just getting warm by the time I'm done.

That is why I did mine and I love it.

Money well invested.
 
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