Tile installer screwed up my garage bathroom, what to do?

[SUPERFORD]

So I'm trying to get my plumbing permit closed out with the county.

I hired a guy to put down tile in the garage bathroom. This guy had previously done my laundry room floor to everyone's satisfaction.

However upon arriving home from work yesterday, I found that the tile install in the garage did NOT look good.

The tile is a gradient pattern that changes from blue to white along the length of the bathroom. The tiles are small 3/4" squares that were on 12"x12" sheets, but the color change or gradient was designed to happen over an 8' distance, my bathroom (toilet room really) is only 6' long. So it required cutting the tile sheets into smaller sections.

the problem is that allthough I purchased the little "plus" shaped spacers to use between sections to keep the grout lines & tiles aligned, the guy didn't use them and several sections of tile are slightly crooked and two sections have little to no space between tiles.

I know that for as long as I live here, it's the first thing I'll see when entering the bathroom

The tiles are nothing fancy, but were not particularly cheap and had to be special ordered so it'll take another week to get more unless I want to pay a bunch of extra shipping $$$.

I'm just really bummed because I was wanting to get the toilet put down and the county off my back with this plumbing permit (has been open since 2008! damn recession related $ probs).

I know this post is useless without a picture, (edit: photos posted further down in thread) but am I just being too picky, or should I start "demanding" he buy new tile, tear up the old and reinstall it?

thanks,
chris

P.S. here's a pick of what I mean by "gradient"

 

[HotRodKush]

Post a photo, I'm curious to see how he shortened the gradient.

 

[Strouty]

Looks like you need a better camera, that picture is all pixelated. I would get a discount for the install and live with it. It is a bathroom and in the garage, you are going to have an awful time getting it redone. Just my .02

 

[SUPERFORD]

Post a photo, I'm curious to see how he shortened the gradient.

I actually shortened the gradient by cutting the lengths of each section of tiles myself.

the tiles came in 12"x12" sections. 8 different color combinations. so eight 12" sections make up the full gradient or color change starting with the dark blues and working towards white. each section has a mixture of colors, but they don't really change across each 12" section. meaning if you took one of the 12"x12" sections out of the 8' strip, there isn't really an up or down to that individual section. so when I cut them down from about 13 tiles sections to about 9 tiles, the "gradient" still works pretty well, just in a shorter distance.

I'll get a photo.

 

[SUPERFORD]

Looks like you need a better camera, that picture is all pixelated. I would get a discount for the install and live with it. It is a bathroom and in the garage, you are going to have an awful time getting it redone. Just my .02

I think you are missing the point / concept. the tiles are small 3/4" squares. they are going to look "pixilated" no matter what kind of camera I use!

 

[paullie]

this is why you do it yourself, that way it's done like you want--being that it's already done get a discount on it and go all with life, it's a garage floor, like the old saying goes "get a good coat of dirt on it and you will never know"

 

[PaulR]

Sounds on the surface like a "I'll buy the parts and do this and this part for you and then tell you exactly what to do and you charge me this and I will scritinize every bit of what you do over your shoulder" kinda job but that is me shooting from the hip, I may be dead wrong, but that's the way I read it first off.

Paul

 

[SUPERFORD]

Sounds on the surface like a "I'll buy the parts and do this and this part for you and then tell you exactly what to do and you charge me this and I will scritinize every bit of what you do over your shoulder" kinda job but that is me shooting from the hip, I may be dead wrong, but that's the way I read it first off.

Paul

Background: I had previously hired this guy via a "tile lady" who was recommended by some friends. When he came and did the work, (although he was apparently subcontracted to do the work) he left his personal business card.

He did a good job, so I kept the card for 3 years specifically so I could call him if I needed anything else done.

When I called and asked if he was still doing tile work, he said yes. Told me to pick out whatever materials (tile, grout, thinset, etc.) that I needed and call him when I was ready for installation. He never offered to supply his own materials and made a point to comment that he could install whatever kind of tile I chose (large or small).
Upon arrival to do the work, he mentioned that the thinset that the tile store had sold me was not what he was accustomed to using or prefered to use. Although it's non returnable, I told him, no problem, as long as it will work with this tile, use whatever you feel comfortable with.

He came out to survey the job a day in advance and even helped measure to cut the gradient sections down to fit the room (a very small 6x3.5' room). He voiced no concern whatsoever with us cutting the tile into smaller sections.

He was friendly and easy to work with.

He planned to come out yesterday morning and install the tile, and then let it "set up" and return yesterday evening to apply the grout.

When I went home for lunch, I found him already laying grout. (I'm curious / suspicious if this is even a good idea, as it means he immediately applied the grout over top of the tiles and presumably still uncured thinset)

This and the sloppy tile alignment lead me to think, maybe he was just rushing... but I don't know.

He has agreed to come back out and "take a look", but I don't know how this will play out.

again, it's also irritating that he had to move the baggie of tile spacers off of the top of the tub of grout in order to open it, but then left them laying on the floor unused. yet another "shortcut" imho

my wife says I'm picky, but even she agrees that it is noticeable and that I should have called the guy back.

My (admittedly also detail oriented) father, commented, "Wow, I like your fancy tile, but the installation *****".

 

[SUPERFORD]

this is what an 8' x 12" length of the tile looks like. (made up of 8 seperate roughly 12" sections)

here is my floor:

 

[SUPERFORD]

it doesn't photograph well, but here is one of the areas I'm talking about. look at the gaps in the tile. one or two of the sections is just plain crooked. one of the grout lines on the far left and one horizontally through the center zig zag and/or is almost non existant, while other areas are perfect.

or am I just being picky?

I feel like I should have saved the money and tried to tackle the job myself.

 

[Strouty]

I think you are missing the point / concept. the tiles are small 3/4" squares. they are going to look "pixilated" no matter what kind of camera I use!

Sarcasm, it is one of my best traits, sorry. I think it looks pretty damn good to me, but I didn't lay out the dollars for it to be done right. If I did it myself I would say "learning experience", but since you paid for it, I would try and get some cash back.

 

[eddyyy302]

I would lose the argument about the spacers, any tile guy worth a damn won't use them. Some will argue the point, but it really is a personal preference thing and if you have any skill laying tile they will remain in the bag.

OTOH, that installation on the floor ***** and you would be completely right asking for it to be ripped out and redone at his cost! He also should not have been grouting freshly laid tile, thats a builder grade move imo.

Dan

 

[mtwaterguy]

Since the floor is finished I would go ahead and install the toilet and get the final inspection done. Then have the "installer" come back and tear up the floor and correctly lay the tile.

"I would lose the argument about the spacers, any tile guy worth a damn won't use them".
/QUOTE]

Clearly this guy should have use the spacers.

 

[Defender Chassis]

Since he did not provide the material I would say you might get him to pop for the labor to fix but the second set of material is on you.

 

[Todd.Brock]

I have laid plenty of tile in my house and it looks better than that. That looks like a swimming pool tile or something.. Would the cheapy HD ceramic work if you hated so much to redo it? I agree with getting the toilet in and get the county off your back, then figure it out with the tile guy... or maybe a rug to cover it up?

 

[mtwaterguy]

Since he did not provide the material I would say you might get him to pop for the labor to fix but the second set of material is on you.

He may not have supplied the original material, but he did screw it up by installing it incorrectly. He should cover materials and labor to make it right.

 

[wbrian63]

Cool tile - just one question.

Assuming the pipe coming out of the floor is your waste stack, how much of this obvious screw-up will be covered when the toilet is installed.

It may be that a lot of it disappears once the toilet is in place...

 

[Defender Chassis]

He may not have supplied the original material, but he did screw it up by installing it incorrectly. He should cover materials and labor to make it right.

I do not think the law sees it that way. If so, he would have to adjust his installation price based on the "value" of the material you supply.

 

[OkieLEO]

He may not have supplied the original material, but he did screw it up by installing it incorrectly. He should cover materials and labor to make it right.

I second this... I wouldnt however put the toilet in and finish the inspection because in my eyes the toilet would have to come back out in order to redo. I would put the county on hold and get this guy to redo the job all at his cost.

 

[porphyre]

Sorry this happened, but that's a really kick-*** tile pattern!

 

[dipper]

First off, that is a damn cool looking tile pattern for the garage bathroom floor.
I've layed my share of tile, and though it looks good in the first few pics you have, the one close up showing the crooked tile by the stack is pretty bad. I would at least get him out their to re-do it, even if you have to split the cost of the tile and he provide the labor.

Maybe he can just take up the bad sections and replace those. And yeah, usually you
want to wait 24hrs after install before installing the grout. Those are typical manufacturer specifications and typically must be heeded for the warranty.

 

[wbrian63]

I believe you indicated he didn't like the thinset you'd purchased, and that you allowed him to use whatever he wanted.

There are fast-setting thinsets that will allow grouting within a very short time. Maybe he used such an item. If he started with traditional thinset in the AM, I find it hard to believe he could be grouting by lunch without major negative results.

 

[mtwaterguy]

I do not think the law sees it that way. If so, he would have to adjust his installation price based on the "value" of the material you supply.

If he hasn't already figured that into his "labor only" charges then he's not much of a businessman. Things happen, he just needs to man up and take responsibility for his poor installation job.

 

[SUPERFORD]

I believe you indicated he didn't like the thinset you'd purchased, and that you allowed him to use whatever he wanted.

There are fast-setting thinsets that will allow grouting within a very short time. Maybe he used such an item. If he started with traditional thinset in the AM, I find it hard to believe he could be grouting by lunch without major negative results.

let me clarify, it's even worse than that...

he called me at work on my cell at 9:22am yesterday to say he was "about 20 minutes away".

I arrived home at about 10:45 to 11:00 at the latest! to find him already half way done with the grout!

we are talking 1.5 hours MAX from bare floor to grout time.

now that I think about it, no wonder it looks bad.

 

[amuffly]

Wow sad seeing work being done like this. You always have to wonder were did you find this guy and how cheap was he. You may be better off telling him he can either A. Redo at his cost or not get paid or B. Not pay him and find someone else. I would take the lose and go with B. Why give this guy another chance at f'ing up again.

 

[PaulR]

Yup, at first I thought you may be Mr. Picky Rententive homeowner but I agree that looks pretty bad, especially for a tile guy. Heck I'm an accountant and I can lay tile better than that. Sorry to see.

 

[Frank The Plumber]

I see a lot of little goof ups in that photo. The wall is crooked or concaved, no one put a foam cap on the toilet pipe so it will not require chopping on the fresh tile job to set a collar, you have a block wall that is not even pre prepped for paint yet you have tile down.

Yeah the tile looks rough but what did you pay the guy to do it? If the answer is a 12 pack of Tecate and $25 cash it looks spiffy. Personally, I wouldn't have the same guy redo it. And if he does this time lock the spirits cabinet because if a guy can't walk a straight line, he can't tile one either. Maybe make him hold his finger on the tip of his nose as he is tiling. That is a buddies and beer job there.

 

[SUPERFORD]

I see a lot of little goof ups in that photo. The wall is crooked or concaved, no one put a foam cap on the toilet pipe so it will not require chopping on the fresh tile job to set a collar, you have a block wall that is not even pre prepped for paint yet you have tile down.

Yeah the tile looks rough but what did you pay the guy to do it? If the answer is a 12 pack of Tecate and $25 cash it looks spiffy. Personally, I wouldn't have the same guy redo it..

To my knowledge, the wall is neither crooked nor concave (allthough knowing the guys who did the framing, I wouldn't be surprised), I assume that you are talking about the bottom edge of the sheetrock wall at the top of the 2nd "close up" photo. The sheetrock has very minor damage on the bottom edge or corner. To me it's a non issue because it will be covered by the door jamb and baseboard trim.

As for the block wall. I had no intention of finishing the garage this year. The whole project has been on hold since the recession (this is why my permits are still open since 2007 & 2008). My county building permit department recently took notice of this and started sending me friendly reminders this summer. Because of this, finishing the plumbing and electrical became a priority. Advice here told me that I should go ahead and finish the bathroom floor BEFORE putting the toilet down. I'm not ready to purchase the epoxy that i had planned to use for the entire garage & bathroom floor, so I figured a tiny tile job couldn't be too expensive and went this route. So although I do eventually plan to paint the block, i'm not sure why that should be done prior to tiling the floor. I can mask/tape off the tile before I paint and as with the bottom edge of the sheetrock, base board trim will be covering the seam even if it is not perfect. Am I missing something?

As for the foam cap on the toilet pipe, I'll have to defer to your expertise on this one. My plumber didn't mention it. I don't know what he has in mind. I guess the good news is I'll have a chance to install one of these once the tile comes back up for the re-do!



Suffice to say, I payed the guy significantly more than a 12 pack of mexican beer and $25 dollars for this job.

This is why i'm upset with the shoddy workmanship...

thanks for the input.

 

[Frank The Plumber]

Have the plumber put the collar on before you redo the floor. You will see why.And you can get the toilet set and the code guys off of you, you can always reset the toilet later.
The wall sealer is messy stuff, hard to get off of tiles. If the same guy who tiled does it, Good night Irene. I would try to get a few bucks back out of the guy. It's sad that you paid him good money. It really is a $25 and a 12 er of Tecate looking thing if you study it. Sorry, it is a cool pattern though.

 

[MrMark]

You had a great idea and that guy ruined it for you. It looks horrible. I couldn't abide it.

 

[Omphaloskeptic]

Sorry for your bad tiler experience. From your close-up picture, that 'crapsman' did a (s)hit-and-run job on you. He probably rushed the grout job just to get the hell out of Dodge before the gunfight started. I would take no pride in that job and I'm just a DIY tiler!

 

[compresdcaddy]

in the tile guys defense sometimes the tiles are not spaced the same on the sheets and I have seen tiles be different sizes from sheet to sheet depending on if you got a mix of lots...although it could have been laid better in my eyes, also.

 

[jhelrey]

He rushed through that job... 12x12 sheets are hard to lay straight but that is why God made red chalk, chalk lines, etc...

I would make him R+R it.

 

[compresdcaddy]

in the tile guys defense sometimes the tiles are not spaced the same on the sheets and I have seen tiles be different sizes from sheet to sheet depending on if you got a mix of lots...although it could have been laid better in my eyes, also.

I am also a plumber and i see stuff like that all day everyday. sorry for troubles.

 

[PecosBill]

Yeah, that is pretty damn ugly.

As far as spacers, real tile craftsmen don't use them, especially on horizontal work. There is no such thing as a perfect tile, and spacers make it hard to adjust for the inherent imperfections. And, there is never a reason to use them, even for a amateur, when setting mosaic.

It looks to me he was trying to reach over from over his first courses, trying to reach back into the toilet area. In doing so, he probably was unable to get a decent visual of the work, or to straighten the mess out. In a situation like that, where you have to do the main room in order to get your layout, it's better to come back after it has set up and set any alcoves, so that you don't run into this exact situation.

The very first rule of tile setting is, never screw up within visual range of a toilet. A person sitting on it will automatically detect all mistakes in sight. I'd have him remove the area in the toilet alcove and reinstall it, on his dime. If he is a real pro, his reputation means enough to him that he wouldn't want to leave a job like that with his name on it.

 

[dodriven]

I definitely wasn't expecting it to be that bad. About a year ago I had a shower stall end up the same way and I made him tear it all back out before I paid. There's no excuse for that kind of sloppy work.

Like Bill said, if he is a real pro, he won't let this small of a job tarnish his reputation.

 

[Tarheelgarage]

That looks like ****. Was he drunk or on crack when he did the work?
Hope you haven't paid him a cent yet for that **** job.

 

[SuperSocket]

Hmm no collar on the toilet pipe, it's going to be a mess to break that out to fit the collar.


That tall pipe being there without the collar would make it a pita to tile around.

 

[SUPERFORD]

Hmm no collar on the toilet pipe, it's going to be a mess to break that out to fit the collar.

Since this is the second mention of this potential issue, I talked to my plumber this morning. He says that they are just going to cut the 4" PVC pipe off at the tile/floor level and install some kind of a sleeve or flange? (forgive me if i'm not using the proper terminology) or some other component on the (if i understand correctly) INSIDE of the pipe. This flange or ring whatever it's called will not interfere with the tile and will have two brackets or side pieces that come off of either side of it to bolt the toilet down to.

He said that there is no problem. The tile will not have to be cut, damaged or removed (at least not for that reason) to finish the toilet install.

Am I making any sense?

 

[rsa]

I feel for you

"You'll never notice it after it's grouted"