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New service DIY help

stan

Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
7
I need to rewire and run new service to my detached garage about 30 feet from the house. Currently there is overhead service that is stupid basically. I have already run gray PVC electrical conduit buried from garage to the house outside service box (did all this when we tore up backyard and poured new patio last year). I want to run everything in the garage up to the new garage service box which is 100amp and run wires through conduit and into house to the box and then get someone to hook it up at both ends. Brother inlaw that is electrician was supposed to do this 4 years ago so you know where I am at now. I have new box for garage 100amp. I need to know what wire I need to run for the main feed. Also what should I use in the garage. I am going to run 2-30amp breakers for welder and compressor (both 110) and 1-220 for later use. Maybe 5 or 6 shop lights that will just be standard plug in recepticles and thinking 6-8 outlets throughout. Also one outside garage for outdoor use.

I am sure there is a thread on here but dont have time to search. Just need parts list so I can start getting stuff.
Thanks
 
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pattenp

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There are a lot of variables with the materials based on what you want to do. The short of it is what you are asking is near impossible to answer with your limited information.
 

pattenp

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Ok... I'll stick my neck out. Use what's known as Mobile Home Feeder (AL 2-2-4-6 or AL 2-2-2-4) for the service feed. For the lights use 14-2 NM on 15A breaker. For outlets use 12-2 NM on 20A breaker, and for the 30A circuits use 10-2 NM.

Oh and breaker the feed at no more than 90A. Outlets need to be all GFCI.
 
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sdowney717

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we used 2 gauge copper and ran 4 wires.
2 hot, 1 neutral, 1 for ground.
My father in law does not like aluminum wire. He could afford it.
It needed a breaker in the house box, and we used main load lug center in the barn with
a breaker as a disconnect. It might have been 100 amp or 90 cant recall.
and we ran a ground rod at the barn box.
 
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chickenhauler

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May 31, 2011
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Pennsylvania
we used 2 gauge copper and ran 4 wires.
2 hot, 1 neutral, 1 for ground.
My father in law does not like aluminum wire. He could afford it.
It needed a breaker in the house box, and we used main load lug center in the barn with
a breaker as a disconnect. It might have been 100 amp or 90 cant recall.
and we ran a ground rod at the barn box.


That's the way I'd do it too. :thumbup:
 
OP
S

stan

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Nov 9, 2006
Messages
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Thanks for the info that will get me started. I am going to run copper as well. Need to keep eye out for surplus sales or craigslist deals on the 2 gauge.
 

Gary S

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Bismarck, ND
we used 2 gauge copper and ran 4 wires.
2 hot, 1 neutral, 1 for ground.
My father in law does not like aluminum wire. He could afford it.
I


I did exactly the same thing--#2 copper all the way. I don't do aluminum.

#2 aluminum isn't suitable for 100Amps.
 

mrb

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this has been explained here many, many times and there is more to it that what you stated.

You dont have time to search, but expect us to have time to do your homework for you?
 

pattenp

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this has been explained here many, many times and there is more to it that what you stated.

You dont have time to search, but expect us to have time to do your homework for you?

I wanted to say the same but I guess I'm too nice. :)
 

pattenp

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There is nothing wrong with aluminum when correctly installed. With aluminum at about $1 a foot vs. copper at $4 a ft for 100 amp capacity, aluminum starts to look good.
 
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stan

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Nov 9, 2006
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Well I did search and did not see anything that was what I was looking for so I asked a question which is what public forums are supposed to be for. Sorry that I offended anyone for asking questions if you do not feel it is worthy to response since you know more than me please dont then. This is what I do not like about specialty forums the people that think they know better and try to put people down for asking for some help. Thanks to everyone that gave me some advice I know the question was somewhat vauge but it was to find some help.
 

mrb

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Sorry that I offended anyone for asking questions if you do not feel it is worthy to response since you know more than me please dont then.

if you search you will see that i have spent quite a bit of time here dispensing advice, and your situation seems worthy of such advice. It was the 'i dont have time to search a well covered topic give me a shopping list' that rubbed me the wrong way.

Here are some questions for you (in no particular order):
-What size is your existing conduit? (not that it matters now, but did you bury it at the proper depth?)
-What jurisdiction are you in and what code cycle are they on?
-Are you planning to permit your work? (this is highly recommended)
-Is the conduit landed in your "house service box" or is it just stubbed up out of the ground?
-can you post a picture of your 'house service box' with the cover off?
-your 240v circuit for future use, how many amps? 30? 50?
-What size is the existing service on your house? What are the existing loads in the house?

Also, you're running a feeder to a subpanel in the garage. Not a service.

The basics of what you will be installing are 4 wires (2 hots, neutral, ground) in the conduit from the house to the garage, a subpanel in the garage with a ground buss bar installed and the bonding screw or strap removed from the neutral bar, 2 ground rods at least 6 feet apart. You most likely need a main disconnect, this can be a main breaker in the subpanel. Your local jurisdiction may have slightly different requirements with regard to the disconnect.

Realistically if you can run all the wire and install everything you should be able to finish the job yourself. Post lots of pictures and ask lots of questions before you buy material and before you connect things if you arent sure. A couple people here have redone work (even twice I recall once) after it was pointed out that what they did was wrong and dangerous.
 

pattenp

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It was just the comment about not having time to do a search. Anyway don't let it turn you off to this forum, I've been bit on something I've typed before. It's hard to read intent or feeling into written text. Best of luck on your wiring project. :)
 

gatchel

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Dec 12, 2009
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West of King of Prussia, PA
if you search you will see that i have spent quite a bit of time here dispensing advice, and your situation seems worthy of such advice. It was the 'i dont have time to search a well covered topic give me a shopping list' that rubbed me the wrong way.

Here are some questions for you (in no particular order):
-What size is your existing conduit? (not that it matters now, but did you bury it at the proper depth?)
-What jurisdiction are you in and what code cycle are they on?
-Are you planning to permit your work? (this is highly recommended)
-Is the conduit landed in your "house service box" or is it just stubbed up out of the ground?
-can you post a picture of your 'house service box' with the cover off?
-your 240v circuit for future use, how many amps? 30? 50?
-What size is the existing service on your house? What are the existing loads in the house?

Also, you're running a feeder to a subpanel in the garage. Not a service.

The basics of what you will be installing are 4 wires (2 hots, neutral, ground) in the conduit from the house to the garage, a subpanel in the garage with a ground buss bar installed and the bonding screw or strap removed from the neutral bar, 2 ground rods at least 6 feet apart. You most likely need a main disconnect, this can be a main breaker in the subpanel. Your local jurisdiction may have slightly different requirements with regard to the disconnect.

Realistically if you can run all the wire and install everything you should be able to finish the job yourself. Post lots of pictures and ask lots of questions before you buy material and before you connect things if you arent sure. A couple people here have redone work (even twice I recall once) after it was pointed out that what they did was wrong and dangerous.

You, sir, are a very nice person. You do help tons of people here, often...

It would be nice to see some more searching, though.:beer:
 

Charles (in GA)

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Jan 11, 2006
Messages
12,489
Location
50 mi south of Atlanta
I think what this forum needs is for mrb and Norcal to co-author a STICKY that is a comprehensive discussion of installing a basic 100 amp (er..... 90 amp) feed to a garage.

One which would give recommended wire sizes, both copper and aluminum and why AL is quite OK and why you cannot use a 100 amp breaker to supply 2-2-2-4, but why 2-2-2-4 is probably the best choice for most people, and why you need a panel that is larger than one ever thinks they need and why a disconnect is needed at the detached building and why 2-2-2-4 that originates inside the house or other building needs to be in conduit inside, and also the pros and cons of using Romex vs EMT or other conduit and THHN wire, and why ROMEX cannot be used in wet locations (and define what a wet location is)......................... and on and on.

Yes, this is alot of material, but I think it can be boiled down to eight or ten different posts contained in one sticky thread, with code references and possibly links to some of the better previous discussions. AND some good books to reference.

After about the um-teenth identical question from a new Cessna 150 owner, this is what I finally had to do to make things go better on the forum I moderate.

Let only mrb and Norcal write or modify the thread and if one of the other gurus on here has something new, different or relative to add, PM it to one of those two and let them edit and add it in.

How to books just really don't work for alot of things people ask on here. Indeed, if you just don't know what you are doing, you need to keep your hands out of it, but if you are willing to carefully learn, have someone knowledgeable to help you (who might learn something from all of this too) then this would be a good STARTING PLACE to help people plan their electric service to their shop.

Make sure it starts off with a huge disclaimer, a couple of paragraphs about how this is not a how to, but rather, an assist with planning and to provide education to insure that whoever does the work for you, does it correctly.

Again, on the Cessna 150 forum I moderate, there are some how to things that are beyond the legal limit for a non-licensed (mechanic license, known as an Airframe and Powerplant license) aircraft owner, but many licensed mechanics don't know what they are doing either when it comes to these small birds, and our FAQ's help the owner keep his mechanic on the straight and narrow, and save them money too, by not chasing the wrong gremlin. We've kept mechanics from going around the world troubleshooting a problem, on more than one occasion by providing the owner with good solid info that the mechanic was not aware of and would have never gleaned from a manual.

Well, enough, and hope something comes of this. I'm sure the moderators would be willing to make the thread sticky and locked, most discussion forums have a few of these and they are worth the time spend creating them.

Charles
 
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