Ripping 2x4s: My Saw Struggles

[Bull]

Maybe 15 or 20 years ago, my folks bought me a Craftsman table saw. This is no high-end machine, but it has worked out reasonably well for me over the years. One thing it does not like to do so well is to rip 2x material. Just today, I was ripping some 2x4x8s into 1 3/4" strips, and I was reminded of the problem. Basically, it feels like the motor or the blade are struggling a little bit. The cut area almost always has burn marks in certain areas, too. I set the cutting guide as straight as I can, using a ruler to measure the distance to the center of different teeth on the blade. I set the height of the blade so that the top-most one is maybe 1/4 or more above the surface of the wood. I don't try to ram the board through, but do provide steady pressure to keep it moving. The blade is the one that came with the machine, stock.

What is the most likely reason for this?

Dull blade?
Dull operator?
Blade height set too low?
Other?

 

[JamieK]

Isn't there a special saw blade for ripping?

After a quick Google search, there are special blades for ripping. They have a very aggressive tooth profile. Your saw may have come stock with just a general purpose blade.

 

[fr0mastaj]

I vote for blade... maybe buy a lower tooth count blade while you're at it, for ripping.

 

[darkk]

Weak motor,cheap blades are junk,the tin rip fence will never be properly aligned...so long rips will be sorta at an angle, this will cause binding, ??? lotsa other stuff too!

 

[VWandDodge]

Yep. Poor quality blade.

 

[rct]

I would also replace the blade. Blades dull and after 15-20 yrs the technology and tips are better. A sharp blade will cut faster with less motor work. Strongly recommend the carbide tips, more teeth equals a finer cut.

 

[Bull]

Ok, well, I didn't want to throw money at a new, quality blade without getting confirmation that it was a likely culprit, and not the way I had things setup.

Are there good "do it all" blades so that you don't have to swap them out for different types of cutting?

What should I expect to pay for a good quality blade, and do you have any USA-made recommendations?

darkk, it sounds like you might be interested in buying my saw...want me to take some pics?

 

[vhol5]

I agree with the blade being the cuprit. Most OEM blades are less than ideal for continued use...

 

[chris fresh]

so you've had the saw for 20 years with the same blade and it's cut fine for 20 years,but now it doesn't?hhmmm,strange.and you say that it is leaving burn marks?o.k,let me ask you this,if you made a sandwich and reached into the draw to get a 20 year old knife,that has never been sharpened,and it wouldn't cut the sandwich, what would you do?

don't wanna let the cat outta the bag,but theres only two options.

 

[fr0mastaj]

I have great results with Freud Diablo blades... i do not recall where they are made though... France or Italy i want to say?

 

[rlitman]

Could be your blade is dull.

You may also want to try a "thin kerf" blade.
They're designed to work better on lower powered machines. Freud Diabolo comes to mind. Just be sure to get one made for a table saw, and not a chop saw. The tooth alignment (rake angle) is different.

 

[chris fresh]

I have great results with Freud Diablo blades... i do not recall where they are made though... France or Italy i want to say?

that's all we use,don't think he wants to get into that kind of money

 

[Todd.Brock]

I use a big Grizzly 220v table saw to rip 2x4s. I still get burn marks sometimes. The motor cuts through them like butter, however, I think that warped wood that is binding against the blade and fence causes burns? If you are talking all black and smoking, then its def. the blade!

 

[Jayincali]

Yea 20 year old blade might be a bit of a problem. Diablo blades kick ***, both my framing and fine tooth blade slice thru material like warm butter.

 

[VWandDodge]

Ok, well, I didn't want to throw money at a new, quality blade without getting confirmation that it was a likely culprit, and not the way I had things setup.

Are there good "do it all" blades so that you don't have to swap them out for different types of cutting?

What should I expect to pay for a good quality blade, and do you have any USA-made recommendations?

darkk, it sounds like you might be interested in buying my saw...want me to take some pics?

*A-hem* The right tool for the job. Is changing the blade that cumbersome?

 

[Bull]

so you've had the saw for 20 years with the same blade and it's cut fine for 20 years,but now it doesn't?hhmmm,strange.and you say that it is leaving burn marks?o.k,let me ask you this,if you made a sandwich and reached into the draw to get a 20 year old knife,that has never been sharpened,and it wouldn't cut the sandwich, what would you do?

don't wanna let the cat outta the bag,but theres only two options.

Yes, 15-20 years as a homeowner, not a pro making cuts every day. For the first several/handful of years, I wasn't doing much carpentry anyway. And I didn't ever say it cut fine for 20 years. I said I was reminded today that it doesn't like to rip 2xs. Thanks for the sarcasm, though. It's neat.

Could be your blade is dull.

You may also want to try a "thin kerf" blade.
They're designed to work better on lower powered machines. Freud Diabolo comes to mind. Just be sure to get one made for a table saw, and not a chop saw. The tooth alignment (rake angle) is different.

I did buy a Diablo finish blade for my miter saw, for doing trim work. Perhaps I will see what the local box store has for a blade of whatever size this table saw has.

*A-hem* The right tool for the job. Is changing the blade that cumbersome?

No, of course it isn't. But since I am ignorant of saw blade technology, how will I know if there is a universally regarded "super-all-purpose" blade if I don't ask the people here?

 

[Amitygravel]

Bull
Two things that will make a world of difference is , a new blade with carbide teeth and making sure the fence stays parallel to the blade after yoyu clamp it down. I always measure from the front and the back of the blade. Sometimes when the fence is clamped it will pull itsself off to the side slightly.

 

[southalabama]

get a rip blade

 

[theoldwizard1]

If it is carbide tipped, it can be resharpened.

If it is not a carbide tip, pitch it and get one that is. Higher tooth count= smoother cuts = $$$

 

[Bull]

Bull
Two things that will make a world of difference is , a new blade with carbide teeth and making sure the fence stays parallel to the blade after yoyu clamp it down. I always measure from the front and the back of the blade. Sometimes when the fence is clamped it will pull itsself off to the side slightly.

I do measure from the front and back of the blade to the fence both before and after clamping. That method was taught to me by a Cambodian guy that helped me fix up my old barn.

I hear you and others about the carbide teeth. Will keep that in mind at the store.

Thank you.

 

[scott37300]

Bull, My first table saw was a craftsman I bought about 12 years ago for around 200 bucks. Just a smaller one but it was the best bang for the buck at the time since it could rip 24" left and right and think it is 3 HP. I still have it but upgraded to a bosch 2 years ago. The craftsman was a decent saw for the price.

A good blade makes a world of difference. In some ways a harbor freight saw with a good blade will cut better than a bosch/dewalt witha cheap blade. I try to buy the best saw I can afford based on how much I will use it but the first thing I do is buy a good blade, this is where you want to spend some money and then take care of that blade. All my saws, circular, miter, table, chop, dry cut, portaband, jigsaw, etc. all have good blades on them and you can notice a huge difference. Don't cheap out on blades, you don't need the best 200 dollar one but spend a few extra bucks over the bottom of the line ones.

If you have a good blade and you aren't forcing them your saw shouldn't have any problems. Your blade height is good.

I have had great luck with freud diablo and there is also freud avanti which I like also.

I just went out and checked and I bought a blade about 6 months ago, found it on sale online somewhere so picked it up. It's a freud 10" industrial thin kerf rip 24 tooth blade. It says "Heavy duty ripping for under powered saws". I haven't used it yet, still in the packaging but if you can find something like this you shouldn't have any problems ripping. It's made in Italy, but I remember reading somewhere freud was starting to make some blades in china or taiwan but not positive on this.

 

[Bull]

Thank you for that info, Scott. That Freud blade pictured sounds like it would be a good candidate.

 

[scott37300]

Here's the blade from my last post on amazon, http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000225UH/?tag=atomicindus08-20. It's 36.50 with free shipping which is a pretty good deal.

 

[Bull]

Here's the blade from my last post on amazon, http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000225UH/?tag=atomicindus08-20. It's 36.50 with free shipping which is a pretty good deal.

I do need to order some books from them, anyway, so could add the blade.

I should try to remove my old blade and measure diameter and arbor size. Are these pretty standard dimensions on all saws? 10" diameter and 5/8 arbor, I mean?

 

[VWandDodge]

I do need to order some books from them, anyway, so could add the blade.

I should try to remove my old blade and measure diameter and arbor size. Are these pretty standard dimensions on all saws? 10" diameter and 5/8 arbor, I mean?

Yep. Some will be pre-cut to punch out the center to adapt for a larger arbor.

 

[ajchien]

For a table or circular saw, as a homeowner, I have 3 blades. One 140t for plywood, one around 40-60t for nicer cuts, and one 24t blade for ripping. I like the diablo line. But then, I haven't had that much experience with many different blades.

 

[brett09]

Yep, the Freud Diablo blades work great, and are not extremely expensive. They supposedly have a special coating that reduces friction and blade binding. I've had the same one on my Makita circular saw for years. Well worth the investment in my opinion. They are available at Home Depot, where I live anyway.

 

[metaldad]

I do need to order some books from them, anyway, so could add the blade.

I should try to remove my old blade and measure diameter and arbor size. Are these pretty standard dimensions on all saws? 10" diameter and 5/8 arbor, I mean?

10'' craftsman saw should be a 5/8 arbor. kinda standard.
You do want a fresh carbide tipped ripping blade. A quality new blade, that's up to speed, you'll hear the blade 'sing' as it 'cuts' air.
I have mutiple blades that i change out between my table and mitre saws, depending on the task.
And, do keep it sharp. A dull blade can be and is dangerous.

 

[earlthegoat2]

It seems the peanut gallery has voted for a new blade.

That would actually not be my first move in most instances however since you have had the same one for quite awhile it may need to be done whether that is actually the problem or not.

I would first point my finger at the saw blade alignment. The trunnions should be able to be adjusted. If you have a dial indicator you can see how far out of whack your blade is from the front point to the back point during its range of motion as it circles the arbor. You want it to be as square to your miter gauge grooves as possible. I bet that it is not.

Next you need to either get a newer higher quality fence or understand the limitations of your current one. Kind of the same set up. You need to adjust your fence so it is also parallel with the miter grooves and the saw blade you have already set up.

Here is a video demonstration of the proper set up techniques. Dont be intimidated by this guy's awesome saw. All tablesaws really need is a good fence to be able to just about anything the homeowner or hobbyist could want.

Part one: http://thewoodwhisperer.com/episode-55-tablesaw-setuptuneup-pt-1/

Part two: http://thewoodwhisperer.com/episode-55-tablesaw-setuptuneup-pt-2/

If you get the new blade that is good but also give some thought to setting up your saw properly. As a hobbyist you should probably just go with the general purpose blade that can be used for ripping and crosscutting but does neither best.

 

[earlthegoat2]

oops, doubled

 

[KenC]

1. check blade alignment as above. align blade with miter grooves, not fence. Then align fence with grooves. Helps make square crosscuts too.

2. Make sure the 2x4s are not pinching the blade as you cut. You may need to slip a little wooden wedge in the kerf after cutting a little way to keep it open.

3. Use a good sharp blade, preferably a rip, but a quality combo should work for infrequent ripping. Thin kerf can help a weaker saw, but some of them will warp if allowed to heat up due to pinching wood. That makes them hotter, more burn marks, more drag etc. You can see how that's gonna snoball!

4. Keep the blade free of pitch buildup if cutting pine.

 

[5lima30]

Get a new thin kerf blade (good quality) and it will be like a new saw! YMMV.

 

[rockchucker]

Matsushita. I will never use any other blades in my Saws ever again. I use a Marathon Blade in my SkilSaw but those are changed on a regular basis and ran through nails or whatever.

I run a 12" 80T for my Compound Miter and a 60T for my Table Saw. They can be sharpened and they last a very long time if you make sure you only cut wood with them. Last Blade you will ever buy...


This is the 80T that I use daily and have 2 of so I can always have a sharp blade...


http://matsushitaamerica.com.p4.hostingprod.com/cc_12080.htm


This is my Table Saw Blade...


http://matsushitaamerica.com.p4.hostingprod.com/cb_10060.htm


http://www.matsushitaamerica.com/

 

[Frank The Plumber]

Well I have a different reason for you.
While it may be true that the blade quality is a large factor in ripping a stud I find that the most obvious reason that my expensive Diablo ripping blade does not cut through a stud laterally is not the blade, it is the absense or improper placement of the splitter.
In some cases a different better splitter can be used. You will notice that even after you use a quality blade that the KERF will close around the blade. At any point in the stud if you stop the blade and move the work back and forth the material will pinch onto the blade sides. You will notice that on cheaper higher moisture content wood you get more of this reaction.

 

[chris fresh]

Yes, 15-20 years as a homeowner, not a pro making cuts every day. For the first several/handful of years, I wasn't doing much carpentry anyway. And I didn't ever say it cut fine for 20 years. I said I was reminded today that it doesn't like to rip 2xs. Thanks for the sarcasm, though. It's neat.



I did buy a Diablo finish blade for my miter saw, for doing trim work. Perhaps I will see what the local box store has for a blade of whatever size this table saw has.



No, of course it isn't. But since I am ignorant of saw blade technology, how will I know if there is a universally regarded "super-all-purpose" blade if I don't ask the people here?

no problem on the sarcasm,any time ya need some,just gimmie a shout.

on a serious note, theres no one blade that does it all,theres different blades for different material,and also what finish your looking for in said material.i push wood through a saw for a living,we use good blades,it's like anything,you get what you pay for.if you wanna spend a little less money,we also use marathon blades from lowes,there 7 or 8 bucks for a 7 1/4 (skillsaw blade) and the reason we use them is because of how thin they are.dewalt blades aren't bad,but i wouldn't use them in any of my cabinet work.

remember this if nothing else,a dull tool is a dangerous tool,last thing anyone on here wants to here is you got jammed up and lost a finger or took a shot in the chest on a kick back.because you didn't want to spend 30 or 40 bucks on a blade

i just finished running a bunch of 2x4's on edge through my tablesaw,they were 12 fter's,i used a 10 marathon blade and the cut was good enough to not have to run them through the planer.

 

[BlindViper]

Make sure when you check it off the fence you are measuring off teeth that are set in the same direction. I also vote for freud diablo blades everything I have that has a spinning a blade has one.

 

[kissmeimgerman]

blade blade blade

 

[JC23]

One more thing to make sure of. Is the blade at it's highest position? I find that makes ripping go easier as it reduces the severity of the angle and contact patch.

 

[Greatbear]

Blade: Carbide tipped, wide-ish kerf rip blade is preferred. Choose a blade with fewer teeth, for ripping the tooth count is not quite as critical as crosscutting or finishing cuts, the fewer teeth create less total friction, and the more open gutters between the teeth are better equipped to deal with the long stringy chips created by ripping, especially softwoods. This creates less drag as well. Forrest and Freud make great blades. Set the blade to the highest setting when ripping. This minimizes the tooth contact area and presents the least load to the motor. Keep the blade clean and free from sap and pitch. Sap is a big problem when cutting dimensional softwoods. Waxing the blade is a good idea.

Alignment: The fence must be parallel to the blade, and the blade must be aligned to the table. Adjusting the trunnions makes the blade move in relation to the table, the blade must be absolutely parallel to the miter gauge slots in the table.If you don't have an alignment jig, clamp a fixture to the miter gauge so the dial indicator touches the side of the blade. A stick screwed or clamped to the miter gauge can hold a dial indicator adequately. Slide the miter gauge/indicator combo back and forth with the blade set at its highest. There should be no change in the distance. Adjust the trunnions until there is no skew. Now adjust the rip fence until it's parallel to the blade, use a fine ruler to measure the difference between the front and back of the blade in relation to the fence. The screws that hold the fence to the clamping mechanism are generally the adjustment points. With the fence tight, loosen the screws then move the far end of the fence in the direction needed to achieve parallel. Waxing the fence sides as well as the table helps too.

Powertrain: Make sure you have a solid electrical supply to the saw. No extension cords, no 15 amp outlets situated a thousand feet from the panel. Check the belt and pulley for wear, and if the belt is old and stiff, replace it, preferably with one of the Fenner link-belt systems. Clean all the sawdust from all moving parts.

Lumber: Some 2by dimensional lumber is just plain ****. When ripping, the uneven drying makes the kerf close up on your blade, couple that with softwood's sap, you'll create drag. Make sure the splitter (if you have one) is doing its job.

 

[MrMark]

I would bet it's the saw. These small table saws are underpowered on 120V and ripping a 2X is hard on any of them, with the burning common. Wet lumber forget about it. I don't care what blade you have. It is the nature of the beast. I have the Freud Industrial blade and the Freud Thin Kerf and my BT3000 Ryobi saw labors with the rip. The Diablo is just a cheap blade they make to sell at Home Depo. It didn't even come up on the Freud site when I checked a year ago.

I haven't tried such a rip on my Bosch table saw yet, but I would expect the same. The universal motors don't have big power. If you want a rip like that I would use a Skil Worm Saw. That has way more power for a long rip. Clamp a fence.