Sears to break into several companies - report

[lbgradwell]

Wow.

Is this the beginning of the end for Craftsman, or will it save a legendary brand?

http://money.cnn.com/2008/01/19/news/companies/bc.apfn.sears.reorganization.ap/index.htm?cnn=yes

 

[jay50]

Get you Cman tools now; they will be collectors items in a few years for the grandkids...

 

[DavidtheDuke]

"On Monday, Sears Holdings told investors it would likely post fourth-quarter earnings well below Wall Street forecasts as eroding sales push its profit down as much as 57 percent." Ouch. The last great, generally affordable, American tool brand. Can't blame it on anything else but people's will to go to HF instead.

 

[wrenchr]

Some other retailer would pick the line up.

 

[wilbilt]

It's all because of those $5 coupons.

 

[jay50]

It's all because of those $5 coupons.

Yeah, all of you who swindle sears with that phoney coupon could at least buy 35 shares of sears stock to help prop the company up....it will only cost you $15....

 

[goodfellow]

Well, it's being led by a former hedge fund "guru". What the he$$ does he know about retail sales. Heck, they can't even get their website straightened out --

Craftsman will survive, but you may have to go to Walmart to buy the brand. I don't shop there, but I think that out of all the big low budget retailers, Wallmart doesn't have it's own tool brand and would just love to have that name under it's corporate umbrella.

 

[wilbilt]

Wallmart doesn't have it's own tool brand and would just love to have that name under it's corporate umbrella.

I thought "Master Mechanic" was Wally's brand?

 

[doug.j]

I wonder if Stanley will eventually buy the Craftsman division. It would get the tools into a lot of stores quickly.

 

[goodfellow]

I thought "Master Mechanic" was Wally's brand?

You're probably right wilbilt -- I don't know that store very well. I was there one time and couldn't wait to get the heck out; too crowded, and it took 30+ minutes to get through checkout.

 

[Merkava_4]

Some other retailer would pick the line up.

They're already being sold at the Orchards Supply Hardware and Kmart.

 

[Jononon]

Craftsman will survive, but you may have to go to Walmart to buy the brand.

Possibly, but wouldn't you think that keeping an in-house Sears brand, with all the heritage that brings (while still ditching everything that makes Craftsman Craftsman) might have its advantages ? Stanley Works is obviously an option (look forward to quality being pissed down the drain, if their European purchases are anything to go by) but Danaher have been incredibly acquisitive, so:

Take the GearWrench line already sold in Sears.
Add the remaining GearWrench line to that they already stock.
Tweak the styling a bit, so it's not identical to GearWrench as sold elsewhere.
Have the factory stamp 'Craftsman' on the side instead.
Retain Sears as exclusive distributor and warranty outlet.
Laugh all the way to the bank.

The fact that production was now overseas would rankle for a while, but people would soon get over it. Where else are they going to go for quality tools at reasonable prices ?

 

[Jononon]

They're already being sold at the Orchards Supply Hardware and Kmart.

Aren't all three Kmart brands ?

 

[lbgradwell]

They're already being sold at the Orchards Supply Hardware and Kmart.

And Fastenal...

 

[lbgradwell]

Danaher have been incredibly acquisitive...

...and already manufacture the brand...

Where else are they going to go for quality tools at reasonable prices ?

Canadian Tire! Not an option for those Stateside, but if Craftsman production was to go to Taiwan or China (and survive the hue & cry), the product would end up being very much like (if not indistinguishable from) Canadian Tire's Mastercraft & Mastercraft Maximum brands... Those brands are a lot of tool for the money, but, for many (myself included) the fact that Craftsman is "Made in USA" is a major factor.

 

[krusty the clown]

I thought "Master Mechanic" was Wally's brand?

isn't it true value hardware's house brand

 

[krusty the clown]

i would think stanley would have more to gain by watching craftsman go away than buying the name. thats danahers biggest customer and would surely hurt them. the money would be better spent in marketing proto and getting proto tools on major marketers shelves.

 

[jfelbab]

It's all because of those $5 coupons.

I was asking myself this just a week ago when I bought their 12V drill kit with two batteries and charger for $24. Last I checked a single 12V battery cost $20 by itself. I pondered how they could make any money selling their products like this.

Guess the answer is, "they can't."

 

[russlaferrera]

Yeah, all of you who swindle sears with that phoney coupon could at least buy 35 shares of sears stock to help prop the company up....it will only cost you $15....

$10 if you use the $5 coupon

 

[wilbilt]

Take the GearWrench line already sold in Sears.
Add the remaining GearWrench line to that they already stock.
Tweak the styling a bit, so it's not identical to GearWrench as sold elsewhere.
Have the factory stamp 'Craftsman' on the side instead.
Retain Sears as exclusive distributor and warranty outlet.
Laugh all the way to the bank.

The fact that production was now overseas would rankle for a while, but people would soon get over it. Where else are they going to go for quality tools at reasonable prices ?

Some people would never get over it. Of course, we will all expire sooner or later.

How about telling Danaher to stick it, and ring up a domestic manufacturer who can supply the goods.
Launch a massive media campaign focused on "Made in the USA", but really mean it, extending even to the power tools and utility knives.
Charge a fair price for the product, and boldly display the "USA" logo on everything.
Don't ever let up on the media campaign. Challenge consumers to check the label on everything they buy.

It could work, but it will never happen. That's unfortunate, because it could turn Sears' fortunes around overnight. There are still a lot of patriotic consumers here, and we would respond in kind to any honest attempt to reverse the Asian vacuum.

By re-opening factories and returning jobs to our communities, Sears could be the first among companies to be branded heroes instead of wh*res.

 

[Jononon]

...and already manufacture the brand...

Yup, but I can't see them taking over ownership of the brand without making cost savings. I'm guessing, but I would think Sears insist on Craftsman staying US made, rather than it being Danaher's first choice.

for many (myself included) the fact that Craftsman is "Made in USA" is a major factor.

Danaher is committed to retaining production of the current Craftsman line in the US

For the new line of Craftsman tools, we have increased productivity, with sub-assemblies and other components being produced in our new 250k sq ft factory in Guangdon.

Cynical ? Me ?

Yes. I've watched Stanley Works and Irwin destroy a century of manufacturing tradition, while trading off the heritage of the companies they chewed up.

 

[eschoendorff]

Some people would never get over it. Of course, we will all expire sooner or later.

How about telling Danaher to stick it, and ring up a domestic manufacturer who can supply the goods.
Launch a massive media campaign focused on "Made in the USA", but really mean it, extending even to the power tools and utility knives.
Charge a fair price for the product, and boldly display the "USA" logo on everything.
Don't ever let up on the media campaign. Challenge consumers to check the label on everything they buy.

It could work, but it will never happen. That's unfortunate, because it could turn Sears' fortunes around overnight. There are still a lot of patriotic consumers here, and we would respond in kind to any honest attempt to reverse the Asian vacuum.

By re-opening factories and returning jobs to our communities, Sears could be the first among companies to be branded heroes instead of wh*res.

Will... I understand your sentiments, but I don't think that teh idea would ever fly. Quite simply because very few in the United States can afford to work in those factories to produce all those American made tools. We are accustomed to having $30/hr jobs with benefits just to make a decent living in this country. These factories would not be able to support that sort of cost while keeping the quality of the products high and the prices reasonable. Some will blame it on inflation, others will blame it on unions and greed... but the simple fact is that if all those tools were made in the USA, they would be made by a largely illegal workforce....

Simply put: you cannot work in a factory making tools in the United States and have a decent living (own a house, etc) in this country anymore. I would love to know just what percentage of Snap On's workforce is even legal... and just what percentage of Snap On's blue collar workforce makes a decent enough wage to have some quality of life. Let's face it: taking pride in the product that you help make is one thing but it doesn't pay the bills.

 

[wilbilt]

Yeah, I know.
I wish I made $30/hour.

It was a thought.

 

[fourfeathers]

I used to buy Craftsman thinking it was good stuff that would last, (or be able to replace it) forever. I have not had that warm fuzzy feeling for a long time now. It is ok, but not REAL quality. It works, but does not have that hefty, balanced feel. You have to ask yourself, would you still buy Craftsman if there was no warranty? Or Mac?

About the only tools I can say that about are Knipex, Visegrip, Snap On, and SK.

 

[eschoendorff]

Yeah, I know.
I wish I made $30/hour.

It was a thought.

It was a great thought... but just not realistic in today's economy (which ***** major *** - but that's another ***-sucking thread). I make just shy of $50000/year and you should see the POS house that we own. it was literally the least expensive house in town when we bought it! I cannot imagine living on less than what I make - and we don't even have kids yet!

 

[eschoendorff]

I used to buy Craftsman thinking it was good stuff that would last, (or be able to replace it) forever. I have not had that warm fuzzy feeling for a long time now. It is ok, but not REAL quality. It works, but does not have that hefty, balanced feel. You have to ask yourself, would you still buy Craftsman if there was no warranty? Or Mac?

About the only tools I can say that about are Knipex, Visegrip, Snap On, and SK.

Really, just about the only American tools that I would consider buying without a warranty are Snap On and Channellock. But those Snap On tools need to come down i price a little if they don't come with the warranty. Oh and Proto too. Everything that I have ever had from Proto has been good.

 

[Stuey]

Sears' tool division as it is needs many changes before it can be trusted again.

They need to do away with their department store pricing. Many of their tools have a wide variety of prices during any given month. Take for example, their 10" drill press. It has a "normal" price of $120.

I've seen it for $90. I've seen it for $100. I bought it for $85 w/ Craftsman Club discount maybe two weeks ago. Right now it's $114 with 15% off. I've also seen it for $110. The only reason they price it in this manner is because they hope to earn extra profit from the folk that pay $120 for it. Its true price is likely close to $99, with anything higher being unfairly inflated.

Sears also pulls similar **** on their tool storage units. They have three prices at any given time, "regular" price, "sale" price, and catalog proce. The store's regular price is much higher than the catalog price, and the sale price sometimes approaches the catalog price. The only explanation is that Sears is trying to take advantage of the naive shoppers, of which there are many.

Sears dilutes their Craftsman line with a lot of junk that should instead bear the Companion label. Also, the mechanics tools go through too many price variations. What is the true price of a wrench set? Is it $30, or is it $40, or is it $60? They play too many games. The fact that Craftsman tools really aren't sold at other large retailers or distributors makes it impossible to determine what the street price is. They often featue a mini GearWrench driver set for $20 on sale from $25. Meanwhile, it's sold at Lowes for $20 any given day.

To make a long rant short, maybe we'll see some reseblance to the old Craftsman reputation if the tool department is allowed to take charge of itself. Get rid of the department store mentality and get back to the honest basics.

 

[jay50]

$10 if you use the $5 coupon

, can't wait for that phony coupon expiration date to get here (Jan 22 I believe). Forger probably already has hatched up another one to vomit on the 'net the next day....

 

[wilbilt]

It was a great thought... but just not realistic in today's economy (which ***** major *** - but that's another ***-sucking thread). I make just shy of $50000/year and you should see the POS house that we own. it was literally the least expensive house in town when we bought it! I cannot imagine living on less than what I make - and we don't even have kids yet!

I just turned 45, and have 3 kids. The oldest two are on their own, or nearly so. My son (20), will never be entirely self-sufficinet. The youngest is 10 going on 35. I spent 1980 through 2000 working as a tech and making $15K-$25K/year. Somehow, we paid (most) of the bills and bought a home.

We are halfway through a 30-year mortgage on that home, and it is falling apart at the seams. I currently make about $34K/year, and my employer likes to call the entire salary/benefit package "$60K", but I'll never see most of that.

I am greatly concerned...and depressed...about the general attitude of young people these days. We have created a generation of people with a non-caring attitude about anything other than themselves. I know I actively instilled my values into my children, but their peers tore it all down.

I don't know that I would even consider having children in the current climate.

I think Sears' woes may be largely due to the current attitudes. Nobody cares where things come from anymore. Everything is expected to fail, and regular replacement is the accepted norm.

Everybody buys a new car every three years, which I suppose creates good cashflow. I can't afford to participate in that game, though.

 

[wrenchr]

Really, just about the only American tools that I would consider buying without a warranty are Snap On and Channellock. But those Snap On tools need to come down i price a little if they don't come with the warranty. Oh and Proto too. Everything that I have ever had from Proto has been good.

Proto is a very high quality tool.

 

[Jbullfrog]

The biggest problem is $6/hr sales associates that are wasting the time of customers or telling them that a poor quality tool that is broke is not their problem. This pisses customers off and makes them go elsewhere. Sears needs to bring the PMT's back and start doing repairs at the stores again. If you need a part, they should pull it off of a floor model, send you on your way, and then reorder the replacement part.

 

[wrenchr]

What ever happened to customer satisfaction?

 

[jay50]

Sears needs to bring the PMT's back and start doing repairs at the stores again. If you need a part, they should pull it off of a floor model, send you on your way, and then reorder the replacement part.

Yeah, they could set up a repair center using cheap illegals making $5/hr..

 

[wilbilt]

Meanwhile, I have a masters degree and am still rather poor by most people's standards. My job is living proof that you cannot pay the bills with pride in a job well done. I care about my job to a fault (ask my therapist) because it deals with KIDS. Many of their parents are in the business of making money. If I were in this solely for profit, I would be regarded as a dispicable human being. So I plod along... I may as well, I signed up for this... and I take pride in my work. Lots of pride. But when all the bills are paid there is just enough money left over for a few tools for me and some shoes for the wife...

Although I do not work directly in instruction, my tech support school district job puts me in the classrooms every day. It is all about the kids, but looking at their ambitious little faces in second grade becomes depressing when you see them in the seventh, sneaking out on lunch to smoke a joint.

Most of the parents around here are just trying to make ends meet. Some of them do it working at Wally or the local casinos, and others do it by manufacturing and/or selling drugs.

The values of respect, humiltiy and responsibility are totally alien to these kids.

 

[Merkava_4]

I'm thinking Sears would do better to just move the whole line GearWrench into the store; it's better quality than C-MAN and their customers don't seem to mind buying Asian made tools.

 

[eschoendorff]

I'm thinking Sears would do better to just move the whole line GearWrench into the store; it's better quality than C-MAN and their customers don't seem to mind buying Asian made tools.

As much as I hate to admit it, I think you're right... the overall fit and finish quality of the GearWrench stuff has always been superior (to me) to Craftsman. Craftsman tools (raised panel **** for the most part) looks and feels like it has been forged on ill-maintained equipment. Their full-polish stuff is done nicely, though.

 

[Uncle Buck]

I'm thinking Sears would do better to just move the whole line GearWrench into the store; it's better quality than C-MAN and their customers don't seem to mind buying Asian made tools.

I would not go that far in my thinking. I like the Gearwrench line but for me it will always be nothing more than a nice little luxury, I only bought my sets in the smaller more commonly used sizes and have no intention of ever expanding to the large sizes. I still tend to grab regular fixed end wrenches before Gearwrenches, old habits die hard. No my fixed end wrenches will always be part of what I will consider my core set of tools. If that day ever comes with Gearwrenches it is many moons away.

 

[Merkava_4]

I still tend to grab regular fixed end wrenches before Gearwrenches, old habits die hard.

Same here. My most favorite wrenches are some double box-end SO's because they are thicker than their combo wrenches and are extremely comfortable.

 

[Zeroek]

You guys talk about all the younger people having that "don't care attitude" and I'm starting to understand what you are saying. I'm 23 years old and I swear that attitude affects anyone that's like around my age or younger. I graduated from a Tech school where almost 90 percent of the people there had that attitude where they just didn't care and it greatly affected me. Now I work at a Dealership working at the Quick Lube rack making 10 an hour for 33 hours a week. It really *****. I tell everyone that I'm dying to start learning everything and become a REAL Automotive Technition but it's like no one listens or really cares I guess. I dunno but it gets me down. I'm ready for a real life ya know.

 

[DavidtheDuke]

You guys talk about all the younger people having that "don't care attitude" and I'm starting to understand what you are saying. I'm 23 years old and I swear that attitude affects anyone that's like around my age or younger. I graduated from a Tech school where almost 90 percent of the people there had that attitude where they just didn't care and it greatly affected me. Now I work at a Dealership working at the Quick Lube rack making 10 an hour for 33 hours a week. It really *****. I tell everyone that I'm dying to start learning everything and become a REAL Automotive Technition but it's like no one listens or really cares I guess. I dunno but it gets me down. I'm ready for a real life ya know.

I don't know any other young people like me that care if something is USA made. They will buy the cheaper because it is cheaper, regardless of what government or slave-work they are sponsoring. Most people don't like to think beyond their own bottom line, and I understand a bit as purchasing power keeps diminishing.