Old warehouse rebuild to workshop in Portugal

[MG30]

Hi.

As i alredy wrote a few days ago on my presantation treath, I'm a Portuguese classic car lover, that lives in the hitoric center of a city. I love to live in there but space is hard to find and cars needs lots of space.

I have a hause that has a basement garage with 160m2 with space for 6 cars, and a workshop that is not the ideal, mostly because of it low cealing (2.4m).

I also have a small wharehouse with 140m2 and 4.2m cealing. Its about 50m distance from my house and i was planing to do this my proper workshop, but for me 50m is a "long distance" from home. I like to work on my cars with the kids and all familly "noise" arround me. So this place its actually being used for parking space.

A few months ago I had the oportunity to buy a space on a old wharehause, just behind my backyard. It has independent car acess and i can "integrate" it with my house with some work. THIS WILL BE MY WORKSHOP PROJECT.

The space has betwen 5.3m and 4.3m cealing but has some "strange" geometry. Its basicly walls with an old concrete floor and old roof that need to be replaced too.

This project will be about the all rubild of the bulding, integrate it with the hause and make a proper workshop with all equipement for car works (except painting service). It will also have a lift and a mezanine that will be my automobilia room.

Normaly i work with Autocad for drawing, but yesterday i downloaded a visio app on my ipad. I'll try to use this tool to draw the plans and post it on this forum.

I hope you like this treath and that you understand (sorry about my english).
Measures will also be in meters. Its more used in Europe and more easy to me. Anyway if you have any question, please dont be shy to ask.

I'll also apreciate some help and hope not to be bored in asking for.

Here goes a scheme of my hause and the space i bought as is today.

 

[grim]

Re: Old wharehause rubild to Workshop in Portugal

Is your backyard a walled courtyard? I'd love to see more pictures of this place man. Very cool. I'm in - subscribed.

 

[930dreamer]

Re: Old wharehause rubild to Workshop in Portugal

Hello, I would love to see some pictures of the property.

 

[magnusk750]

Re: Old wharehause rubild to Workshop in Portugal

This sounds very cool...I'm a classic car lover, as well as a classic house lover.

 

[flybefree]

Re: Old wharehause rubild to Workshop in Portugal

By my calculations the pool is 2273.557mm from your shop...that's awesome.

 

[MG30]

Re: Old wharehause rubild to Workshop in Portugal

Is your backyard a walled courtyard? I'd love to see more pictures of this place man. Very cool. I'm in - subscribed.

Yes grim, my backyard is a walled courtyard. Tomorrow I'll take some photos to post.

 

[MG30]

Re: Old wharehause rubild to Workshop in Portugal

Hello, I would love to see some pictures of the property.

Hello 930dreamer. Tomorrow I'll take some photos to post.

 

[MG30]

Re: Old wharehause rubild to Workshop in Portugal

This sounds very cool...I'm a classic car lover, as well as a classic house lover.

Thak you magnusk750. The hause its not classic. Its about 35 years old. The location its very old, roman ruins with more than 2000 years old and very close to the mediaval center with buldings with hundreads of years old.

I'll also post some pics of my classic cars.

 

[MG30]

Re: Old wharehause rubild to Workshop in Portugal

By my calculations the pool is 2273.557mm from your shop...that's awesome.

Yes flybefree. The pool is very close to the shop. The backyard where the pool is located is about 3m above the floor shop level. The shop celing on that side is about 5.3m, so the idea is to build on the side near the pool a mezanine that will have a very big glass window to the pool. This mezanine will be my automobilia room.

I'll post some drawings of what I plan to do and some pics so you can give me your opinions and ideas.

 

[Zeke]

To borrow a word from the Roman ruins, it will be "colossal."

 

[Nighttrain]

Thats cool. You can work on the cars then jump in the pool to clean up on the way to the house. Thanks for sharing your build with us.

 

[MG30]

Thats cool. You can work on the cars then jump in the pool to clean up on the way to the house. Thanks for sharing your build with us.

 

[MG30]

In a "very draft mode" this is basicly what i intend to do (on next posts i will be more precise on plans, and only on the workshop).

Build a mezanine almost at backyard floor leve. This mezanine will still leave about 2.3m below for cealing. Off course the rest of the workshop will have the total cealing. On this mezanine there will be an automobilia room a small bathroom and a balcony to the shop.

This mezanine will have a big window for the backyard. Some steps will lead from the backyard to the mezanine and then down stairs to the workshop lower floor.

A plan beter than words...

 

[MG30]

Still learning the "TouchDaw" ipad app to draw the plans for the shop. Its prety good and i'm geting used to it. Just need to find more library (like car blocks).

Anyway alredy made some advances. Still need to do the most important thing - to place all garaje equipement and shop furniture on the plan. I havent decided so far how it will be (would apreciate opinions).

Most of my classic cars are sport cars, so most of them really small. Althoug the car images is always the same, they are scaled to most of my cars dimensions.

Sorry about havent post pics of the place, but today left the office alredy dark.

Just on the begining, but here goes some advance on the plan. Just the shop views to make it easier.

 

[Coyote Red]

I didn't do the metric conversion in my head yesterday, but now I see that at least 6 cars will fit in this space and realize the scale. Looking forward to pics.

 

[Bronson]

I spent the night in a Whearhouse once.

 

[Cisco92]

What City? My parent's own a house in Madeira, and we always talk about fixing the garage.

 

[iavwguy]

What part of Portugal do you live in? My wife was born in Lisbon and raised on the Azore Islands before moving to the USA when she was thirteen. The pictures she has of that country show it to be a beautiful place to live.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I hope you like this treath and that you understand (sorry about my english).

No need to apologize for the English, its better than most of the English speaking members of the forum

In any case, the one or two badly botched words are easy to figure out based on the context of the sentence.

Pictures, we LIKE pictures

Charles

 

[Vernmotor]

I would love to see some real life picture of this.

 

[Bib Overalls]

My brother lives in Seville. Two years ago we visited and spent a week at a condo in Isla Cristina. One afternoon we drove across the border for a meal and the opportunity to set foot in Portugal.

I really like the layout of both your house and your plans for the attached warehouse/shop space. You are lucky the warehouse became available.

This forum has a long history of documenting exceptionally nice Porsche garages. From what I have seen so far I suspect you may own one or two. Am I right?

 

[408Chevelle]

This looks like the making of a very cool shop. Waiting for pics...

 

[MG30]

Ok, after several months without posting on the garage journal (but several reading), here i am again to give my contribution to the forum by showing you the developments of the works on my future workshop.

After consulting an architect to do the hole project and several brain storming , the layout is now complitely diferent from the original one (later will post the actual one)

There is now a car passage betwen the hause garage and the future workshop. There is also a "dirty workshop" and the mezanine will be completly diferent.

The works had began 2 month ago and i have several photos to show. Some have bad quality because i am lazy about picking my reflex camera and all the photos were taken with my iphone (always ready to shoot).

My backyard and hause garage floor is a mess...

Now some photos...

My backyard. The wall at the back is the top of the warehause (future workshop). You can also see the pool partialy distroyed to bild the hause garage conection to workshop. Also can see the laundry and a corner of the hause.

Another view. Here you can see (badly) the future outside stairs that goes to my actual shop, in the same floor of the hause garage.

Here you can see better

Side view of the hause. The pool finishing will be completly diferent. Now its very bad. This floor is almost one floor hight above street level.

Inside view of the future workshop

At left car passage to the hause garage, at right "dirty workshop" above future door to the backyard (now to the lundry).

I have several pictures and promisse to post it. Just let me know...

 

[abstamaria]

MG30, it is great you have decided to post. It will be so interesting for me to look at work on a garage from Portugal (I think you are the first from your country).

We have some things in common. My first car was also a 1963 Triumph TR4. I have had since 1994 a 1948 MG TC, which is of course a direct descendant of your 1937 MG TA. You say you still have your grandfather's 1979 Mercedes W123. That makes me feel old, because I had a W123 Mercedes in 1979. I don't have it anymore though.

You are very lucky, because I have had to make do with a smaller garage than your basement one, and also with a low ceiling. I wish there were a warehouse I could buy next door.

I am going to take the liberty of making some suggestions, since you are just about to start:

1. Please do not make your workshop look like a garage in the US with a a red stripe separating the grey bottom wall and the top white section. I love those, but they belong in the US. I would really like to see something different, uniquely European and, if possible, Portuguese. The most interesting garages for me (aside from the grey-and-white USA workshop) have been the ones that have a strong local flavor, like the mews garages in England, a lakeside shop in Canada, that interesting farm in Estonia, the ancient warehouse in Italy, the arts-and-crafts garage in the USA ... (I shouldn't be saying this because my garage is not unique at all and could be anywhere in the world.)

2. Think about a two-post lift instead of the four-post, or perhaps in addition to it. I installed a MaxJax because of my low ceiling height.

3. It would be great if your warehouse could blend in with the local architecture.

4. Keep the pool!

That's all for now, and I'm so sorry for making those unsolicited suggestions. I am just excited about your build. And please take some photos of your neighborhood. It makes me feel I am visiting you (one of the great things about GJ).

Good luck, and keep us posted.

Andres

 

[Bib Overalls]

It is very good to see you posting updates. You have a very interesting project and I'm really interested is what you are doing. Thanks for inviting us to share this experience with you.

 

[Jvvmusme]

I wish I could buy anything in the 5000 meter range from my house !
You are very lucky. I agree with Andy regarding local architecture. Also hs recomendation about a MaxJax is appropiate. I do not know how much you personally work on your car, but a MaxJax is more than enough for everithing. For instance yesterday I worked on my Austin Healey 100m, removed the gearbox for overdrive repair, emergency brake adjustment and doing with a MaxJax was 100% easier.
I asume you have an Mg TA, a Tr4 and what else ?
I have a TC, A TD, an Austin Healey 100m, a recently aquired Alfa Romeo Guillia Spyder and if Santa Claus behaves well a 1956 Porsche Speedster by October or November ....
I personally do most of the work in my cars except metal and paint. Unfortunetly my workshop is very small 6x 3 meters and its 2 kms from my house. But I have all the tools I need ... Besides my cars buying tools is another vice....
Jose
Bogota,Colombia
South America

 

[abstamaria]

Jose, a 1956 Speedster! That would be a fantastic addition, so best of luck.

Andres

 

[MG30]

MG30, it is great you have decided to post. It will be so interesting for me to look at work on a garage from Portugal (I think you are the first from your country).

We have some things in common. My first car was also a 1963 Triumph TR4. I have had since 1994 a 1948 MG TC, which is of course a direct descendant of your 1937 MG TA. You say you still have your grandfather's 1979 Mercedes W123. That makes me feel old, because I had a W123 Mercedes in 1979. I don't have it anymore though.

You are very lucky, because I have had to make do with a smaller garage than your basement one, and also with a low ceiling. I wish there were a warehouse I could buy next door.

I am going to take the liberty of making some suggestions, since you are just about to start:

1. Please do not make your workshop look like a garage in the US with a a red stripe separating the grey bottom wall and the top white section. I love those, but they belong in the US. I would really like to see something different, uniquely European and, if possible, Portuguese. The most interesting garages for me (aside from the grey-and-white USA workshop) have been the ones that have a strong local flavor, like the mews garages in England, a lakeside shop in Canada, that interesting farm in Estonia, the ancient warehouse in Italy, the arts-and-crafts garage in the USA ... (I shouldn't be saying this because my garage is not unique at all and could be anywhere in the world.)

2. Think about a two-post lift instead of the four-post, or perhaps in addition to it. I installed a MaxJax because of my low ceiling height.

3. It would be great if your warehouse could blend in with the local architecture.

4. Keep the pool!

That's all for now, and I'm so sorry for making those unsolicited suggestions. I am just excited about your build. And please take some photos of your neighborhood. It makes me feel I am visiting you (one of the great things about GJ).

Good luck, and keep us posted.

Andres

Hello Andres.

Thank you very much for your very good suggestions. That's what i need, experimented and wise suggestions.

In fact we have a lot in comun. Not only the cars but also de architectural taste. Since i know the garage journal that i've been reading your garage topic. I must say that i simply love it. Perfect.

My workshop project is delivered to an architect that knows me since i was a kid, so we are in perfect sintony. He is from what i consider the best school in Portugal. Althoug the outside look of my hause it's not by the standards that i like, the interior was complitely rebuidl 12 years ago by this architect.

So to point 1 i can tell you that the look of the workshop will be very "clean", with lots of atention to details in order to manage a "peaceful" look.
I will post in this topic the the details i intend to do in order to get the opinion of the garage journal comunity.

About point 2, you are completly right. I've changed de lift to a scissor lift, that will disapear on the floor, with the ramps covered by the same material of the floor. Will also have a portable "bridge" that is suported by the two ramps in order to make the function of the 2 post lift.
The model of the lift will be an OMCN 820l

The lift "hole" arlredy made in my workshop.

The OMCN 820l example

Another example of he same lift

One draw to see the measures

And the "bidge" to lift the wheels off the ramps

Of course it does not have the same space free under the car as a two post lift, but with the bridge will help a litle and in other way you can also put easly the car on the lift and just go under the car very easily.
Do you think it will work?

By the way, i will keep the pool and will have a glass underwater to the workshop.

P.S. sorry about my bad writed english, but i'm too lazzy to read the post again to correct errors.

 

[MG30]

I wish I could buy anything in the 5000 meter range from my house !
You are very lucky. I agree with Andy regarding local architecture. Also hs recomendation about a MaxJax is appropiate. I do not know how much you personally work on your car, but a MaxJax is more than enough for everithing. For instance yesterday I worked on my Austin Healey 100m, removed the gearbox for overdrive repair, emergency brake adjustment and doing with a MaxJax was 100% easier.
I asume you have an Mg TA, a Tr4 and what else ?
I have a TC, A TD, an Austin Healey 100m, a recently aquired Alfa Romeo Guillia Spyder and if Santa Claus behaves well a 1956 Porsche Speedster by October or November ....
I personally do most of the work in my cars except metal and paint. Unfortunetly my workshop is very small 6x 3 meters and its 2 kms from my house. But I have all the tools I need ... Besides my cars buying tools is another vice....
Jose
Bogota,Colombia
South America

Hi Jose.

Very good taste. The Healey 100 is my favorite Healey. And I also have an Alfa Romeo Giullia from 1968. A "Step Nose" if you know what i mean.
Beside the 1968 Alfa Romeo, the 1937 MG TA and 1963 TR4 I also have an 1930 Ford A 180 ( i think that were less than 3000 made), an 1973 BMW 2002 prepared to fast regularity rallies and an 1979 Mercedes w123.

But that Speedster....

And Andres, i love your Lotus Elan. I would love to have one. Who knows one day.

I also love tools. We will talk and post a lot about this if you want.

 

[Jvvmusme]

I would re consider the scissor lift against a MaxJax...... I placed 2 sets of pads for the lift, one outside the garage and one inside, depending on weather complexity of the job so it is very easy to move the maxjax. Check my garage in this forum. just search for the word "bogota" and you will find it.
The speedster is coming after a 2 year search. I was looking for a project car, a basket case.. so it was difficult.
here is the post about my garage

http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2355793#post2355793

 

[MG30]

Let me talk to you about an homemade solution that i have "invented" to solve a problem to all classic car owners.

All cars and specialy classic ones need to heat the engine fluids to the right temperature before starting the ride. I always wanted to be able to keep the garage door closed while heating the car engine. Also to be able to let the car engine working inside the garage for some kind of work. Well, the CO2 in older classic cars are relly a problem, and in a few minutes (or seconds) the air inside the garage becames very toxic.

There are on the market several exhaust solutions to solve the problem but i didn't like any of them because they involve realy big pipes on the cealing. They look ugly.
Six years ago i made an inginious solution to the problem in my hause garage that i intend to improve in the workshop that i'm bulding now. I made a 16cm diameter pipe underground installation with inlet pipe strategic placed in the garage. All the installation is conected to an exhaust fan instaled outside the garage and the inlet pipe conect to you car's exhaust pipe with a flexible pipe.

Some photos of the the actual solution in the hause garage

Sorry about the dust, but with demolitions in the hause? The BMW also waiting for a deep cleaning since last regularity ralie. Not a mint car but made to run...

As you can see the flexible pipe only goes inside the main pipe about 30cm. Not suficient to stow it inside the main pipe after use.


The solution works great but i still have the flexible pipe to stow. Boring... So in the new workshop i am improving the solution by increasing to 20cm diameter pipe instalation with smother angles and deeper instalation, in order to acomodate the flexible pipe inside de installation pipe. That way it's always ready to use and after using just push the flexible pipe inside the larger pipe installation

Some photos how the improved installation will work in the new workshop

The inlet pipe cover in brushed stainless steel

Open...

Another view

The small hole you can see will drain some water that could drop inside the pipe when washing the floor

One of the inlet pipes were the brushed stainlees steel cover will be instaled. You can see the flexible pipe inside. The right small pipe will conect the drain hole made on the cover. The pipe you can see in the back will be to conect any eventual dehumidifier and drain the water that produces.

Pull the flixeble pipe out...

Still pulling

"et voila..."

Probably nothing you alredy didn't know but this was the easier way that i found to solve my problem.

What do you think?

Jorge

 

[MG30]

I would re consider the scissor lift against a MaxJax...... I placed 2 sets of pads for the lift, one outside the garage and one inside, depending on weather complexity of the job so it is very easy to move the maxjax. Check my garage in this forum. just search for the word "bogota" and you will find it.
The speedster is coming after a 2 year search. I was looking for a project car, a basket case.. so it was difficult.
here is the post about my garage

http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2355793#post2355793

The MaxJax looks great. You can move it from one side to another? What do you need to do to instal it?

By the way, loved your topic and cars...

 

[Jvvmusme]

check www.maxjaxusa.com

and you will see how it works. I did 2 sets of concrete pads or you can do as many as you want and therefor move the maxjax from one location to the other .....

 

[Jvvmusme]

Let me talk to you about an homemade solution that i have "invented" to solve a problem to all classic car owners.

All cars and specialy classic ones need to heat the engine fluids to the right temperature before starting the ride. I always wanted to be able to keep the garage door closed while heating the car engine. Also to be able to let the car engine working inside the garage for some kind of work. Well, the CO2 in older classic cars are relly a problem, and in a few minutes (or seconds) the air inside the garage becames very toxic.

There are on the market several exhaust solutions to solve the problem but i didn't like any of them because they involve realy big pipes on the cealing. They look ugly.
Six years ago i made an inginious solution to the problem in my hause garage that i intend to improve in the workshop that i'm bulding now. I made a 16cm diameter pipe underground installation with inlet pipe strategic placed in the garage. All the installation is conected to an exhaust fan instaled outside the garage and the inlet pipe conect to you car's exhaust pipe with a flexible pipe.

Some photos of the the actual solution in the hause garage

Sorry about the dust, but with demolitions in the hause? The BMW also waiting for a deep cleaning since last regularity ralie. Not a mint car but made to run...

As you can see the flexible pipe only goes inside the main pipe about 30cm. Not suficient to stow it inside the main pipe after use.


The solution works great but i still have the flexible pipe to stow. Boring... So in the new workshop i am improving the solution by increasing to 20cm diameter pipe instalation with smother angles and deeper instalation, in order to acomodate the flexible pipe inside de installation pipe. That way it's always ready to use and after using just push the flexible pipe inside the larger pipe installation

Some photos how the improved installation will work in the new workshop

The inlet pipe cover in brushed stainless steel

Open...

Another view

The small hole you can see will drain some water that could drop inside the pipe when washing the floor

One of the inlet pipes were the brushed stainlees steel cover will be instaled. You can see the flexible pipe inside. The right small pipe will conect the drain hole made on the cover. The pipe you can see in the back will be to conect any eventual dehumidifier and drain the water that produces.

Pull the flixeble pipe out...

Still pulling

"et voila..."

Probably nothing you alredy didn't know but this was the easier way that i found to solve my problem.

What do you think?

Jorge

I think that Jorge and Andres must be friends..... they are as minimalistic and datail oriented as anyone can be..... Unfortunetly I am not that way, unfortunetly.

 

[steam_mill]

Aonde em Portugal?

Where in Portugal?

Although I was born in Toronto Canada, my parents were portuguese. Been there many times. I was in the Azores last summer - my wife's family is originally from the Azores.

 

[abstamaria]

Jorge, many thanks. Just a quick note -

I know you've already provided for an in-ground scissors lift, but, if at all possible, consider switching to a two-post lift. I think that for servicing vehicles it offers the most advantages (clear access to the underside and wheels are suspended, allowing easy removal).

Jose (in Bogota) and I use MaxJax lifts, which works for us because of our space and height limitations. You have a large space and no height restrictions, so you need not restrict yourself to MaxJax. Your problem will be that the MG TA has a very narrow frame, while the rest of your cars are wider. You will need a two-post lift whose arms are long enough to service the TA and the rest of your cars.

(Jose, you have a TD, isn't that right? Jose makes full use of his lift!)

Accordingly, I think you should go for a full-size lift with arms that have low ground clearance (so it can go beneath your lowest cars). There are many posts in the General section on two-post lifts, but they are mostly US brands. In Europe, consider Nussbaum (German), which has a great 2-post lift that has adjustable lifting points.

By the way, I like your color scheme. It is not ordinary and looks really sleek. I assume that is your old garage? (I love stepfronts; I prefer them to the subsequent model.)

Best regards,

Andres

 

[MG30]

The problem is that i alredy have ordered the in-ground scissors lift.
With the bridge i can suspend the whells too, but of course never with the same clear access. I'll talk to the shop were i order the lift to see what they can do.

The color scheme you can see in some photos it's from my old garage (in the hause). The worksop will be diferent. But i think it will be great. Later I'll post a sample of what I pretend to do.

Thanks

Jorge

 

[MG30]

Hi Steam Mill.

I'm from the continent. The Azores (Açores in Portuguese) are lovely portuguese islands on the Atlantic. Half way betwen Portugal and Canada. Let me tell you that i know some portuguese people in Toronto Canada.

 

[Jvvmusme]

I have to disagree with Andres. You can use the maxjax for different cars like the TC or THE MB 123. You just need to have different concrete pads for different widhts. In my case in one of the locations (outside) I have 3 pads. Look at the diagram. Inside the garage I only have 2 pads. If I had your warehouse I would put anchors for the maxjax in at leat 2-3 locations.

 

[Jvvmusme]

Hi Jose.

Very good taste. The Healey 100 is my favorite Healey. And I also have an Alfa Romeo Giullia from 1968. A "Step Nose" if you know what i mean.
Beside the 1968 Alfa Romeo, the 1937 MG TA and 1963 TR4 I also have an 1930 Ford A 180 ( i think that were less than 3000 made), an 1973 BMW 2002 prepared to fast regularity rallies and an 1979 Mercedes w123.

But that Speedster....

And Andres, i love your Lotus Elan. I would love to have one. Who knows one day.

I also love tools. We will talk and post a lot about this if you want.

jorge:

For me a 1968 Alfa Giullia step nose is a GTV or a Junior ? I had a Duetto (1969 Spyder) and sold it to buy the guillia spyder. I am not 100% convinced yet if I made the rigth choice.... The duetto is such a nice car....
Yes we like the same cars, sports, european, small (except your MBw123), but belive it or not I want a Ford Model A in the near future. For its importance, simplicity and off course age.... yes we almost have the same likes...

Jose