New 1/4 72 teeth Snap-On ratchet T72

[chad s]

This topic has been covered before!

If it doesn't say "USA" on the tool, there is virtually no chance it was manufactured domestically. Sorry, but...

The only thing worse than paying Snap-on's ridiculous prices would be paying Snap-on's ridiculous prices for an imported tool.

Thats sad. I'll see my snap on guy in a few hours, I will be asking him about this!

 

[DavidtheDuke]

If it doesn't say "USA" on the tool, there is virtually no chance it was manufactured domestically. Sorry, but...

What's strange about this is that the FLF80 DOES say USA on it. It'd be pretty stupid to setup machining or import parts when you can make the FLF80 in the USA.

This topic has been covered before!
The only thing worse than paying Snap-on's ridiculous prices would be paying Snap-on's ridiculous prices for an imported tool.

Yeah, Matco's ratchets cost MORE than SO's new line of 80 gear ratchets, yet the soft grip handles are made in Taiwan. Ridiculous.

 

[lbgradwell]

What's strange about this is that the FLF80 DOES say USA on it. It'd be pretty stupid to setup machining or import parts when you can make the FLF80 in the USA.

It might be a "transition"; Irwin is obviously capable of making Vise-Grips in the USA, but as discussed in that thread, it would certainly seem that the current product (while virtually indistinguishable from the original) is being manufactured offshore.

 

[DavidtheDuke]

It might be a "transition"; Irwin is obviously capable of making Vise-Grips in the USA, but as discussed in that thread, it would certainly seem that the current product (while virtually indistinguishable from the original) is being manufactured offshore.

Yeah, I'm thinking that too. Have you gotten your answer yet Wrenchr?

 

[wrenchr]

No luck yet.

 

[Zeroek]

I can't find this new ratchet on the website. Anyone got a link?

 

[DavidtheDuke]

I can't find this new ratchet on the website. Anyone got a link?

For very new products SO usually doesn't get it on their website until it's pretty flush w/ the dealers already.

If you type T72 in the search, the item is listed, just not with a photograph or specs yet.

 

[DavidtheDuke]

One thing I noticed is the face plate on the new 1/4 ratchet got a little rubbed on something. Well.. the metal color is some gold color, does anyone have any used 1/4" ratchets with the same metal but says USA on them? It could indicate the metal is made elsewhere. I know the USA FLF80's metal is silver behind the black finish, I've used the hell out of it

These two FHLF80's have heads that do and DON'T have USA on them. Weird.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...viewitem=&item=150212232953&_trksid=p3907.m29
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-...014QQitemZ330210246634QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

What could be happening is they have a duplicate machine offshore, that would make sense.

I've got pics of the ratchet/ratchets.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v137/DavidtheDuke/ratchet/f80t72.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v137/DavidtheDuke/ratchet/f80t722.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v137/DavidtheDuke/ratchet/t722.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v137/DavidtheDuke/ratchet/t72vsprocrafts.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v137/DavidtheDuke/ratchet/t72vsprocrafts2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v137/DavidtheDuke/ratchet/t72.jpg

 

[wrenchr]

Still no response.

 

[toolfreak]

what kind snap on cart you ordered?? i am curious!!

Here is a link to the one I ordered.

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...group_ID=19963&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

 

[chad s]

Well, I was on the truck today, and asked my Snap On guy about the no USA marking thing, and he looked puzzled as we inspceted some ratchets. We had 2 F80's in front of us, one said USA on the head, one didnt. I wish I had a camera. I told him about this discussion, and said next time Im bringing a camera. So these are UA made, and there is some inconsistancy in the markings. I asked him, if his major custumor base knew that some of the major hand tools were made in Taiwan, would they get upset? He said not only would a vast majority of his customers be upset, he would be too. While everyone knows BP stuff is foreign for the most part, his customers sexpect most of the snap on stuff to be made in the USA.

 

[Deafautotech]

i will check out with my snap on guy to see what he have it... how much for it??

 

[Merkava_4]

I've got pics of the ratchet/ratchets.

Man those heads look huge!

 

[chad s]

Man those heads look huge!

They really aren't that much bigger than a 936 series.

 

[DavidtheDuke]

Well, I was on the truck today, and asked my Snap On guy about the no USA marking thing, and he looked puzzled as we inspceted some ratchets. We had 2 F80's in front of us, one said USA on the head, one didnt. I wish I had a camera. I told him about this discussion, and said next time Im bringing a camera. So these are UA made, and there is some inconsistancy in the markings. I asked him, if his major custumor base knew that some of the major hand tools were made in Taiwan, would they get upset? He said not only would a vast majority of his customers be upset, he would be too. While everyone knows BP stuff is foreign for the most part, his customers sexpect most of the snap on stuff to be made in the USA.

It makes since considering some of the 80 tooths do have the mark. But why are they leaving it out. Is Mark the USA marker guy sick sometimes at the plant?

They really aren't that much bigger than a 936 series.

They're slightly thinner, too.

 

[Merkava_4]

They really aren't that much bigger than a 936 series.

I'm used to the 830 series and going up the 936 series was not so bad, but those 80 series are huge. Is that all we're going to be seeing for the next 20 years?

 

[Fedwrench]

I think I'll wait until the flex head version of the T72 comes out.

 

[chad s]

They're slightly thinner, too.

They are the same depth. The F80 is actually deeper if you consider that the direction lever sticks out further, as shown in the photo.

 

[chad s]

And finally a pic of my F80 ratchet I brought home. I havent used it much (Ive been doing sheetmetal repair, replacement, and bodywork for over 8 months now, very little actual wrenching), but for what I have, I like it a lot. I have also put my F936 next to it for a comparison of the head sizes for Merkava. The difference isnt bad, the extra width is mostly at the trailing edge of the pair, and it poses no issues so far. If an F80 wont fit in a cetain spot, there is a damn good chance the F936 or F830 wont either, and then its time to go to 1/4", a swivel socket, or some other approach. .

 

[Merkava_4]

It's not too bad but I don't think they should be advertising it as a "compact head" anymore.

 

[chad s]

They are the same depth. The F80 is actually deeper if you consider that the direction lever sticks out further, as shown in the photo.

Actually, I just measured both of them with a mic, the F80 is a tad thinner, by .010" (ten thousanths of an inch), I dont think thats going to help with clearance in too many cases!

 

[chad s]

It's not too bad but I don't think they should be advertising it as a "compact head" anymore.

I do agree with that. For a compact head, I like the 3/8 ratchet in a 1/4 body, that one has saved me many times.

 

[Merkava_4]

All the tools that were in the 1995 75th anniversary S-O catalog are the ones I like best.

 

[eschoendorff]

I do agree with that. For a compact head, I like the 3/8 ratchet in a 1/4 body, that one has saved me many times.

I have one of those... bought it at a pawn shop for about $15... flex head no less.

 

[DavidtheDuke]

I have one of those... bought it at a pawn shop for about $15... flex head no less.

I'll wait tilll they come out w/ the 3/8" compact head w/ the 72 teeth

 

[wrenchr]

For $15.00 bucks I would have not passed that up either!!!!

 

[lbgradwell]

So these are UA made, and there is some inconsistancy in the markings.

It makes since considering some of the 80 tooths do have the mark. But why are they leaving it out. Is Mark the USA marker guy sick sometimes at the plant?

Hey Chad,

Sorry, but I don't understand from your post how it was determined both the ratchets were US-made. Unless there was some overwhelming proof, I will have to stick with the assumption that the non-"USA"-marked tool is, in fact, imported.

Snap-on is extremely unlikely to leave this mark off by either intent or accident given the value of such an identification. This cannot be chalked up to an oversight.

Now, after all the trouble Stanley got into 10 years ago after intentionally mislabelling their imported products, Snap-on is unlikely to do the same thing. However, they are likewise not likely to advertise - even to their own people - the fact that some of their hard line is now manufactured overseas.

Again, the assumption must be: if it isn't marked "USA", it wasn't made in the USA!

 

[DavidtheDuke]

Hey Chad,

Sorry, but I don't understand from your post how it was determined both the ratchets were US-made. Unless there was some overwhelming proof, I will have to stick with the assumption that the non-"USA"-marked tool is, in fact, imported.

Snap-on is extremely unlikely to leave this mark off by either intent or accident given the value of such an identification. This cannot be chalked up to an oversight.

Now, after all the trouble Stanley got into 10 years ago after intentionally mislabelling their imported products, Snap-on is unlikely to do the same thing. However, they are likewise not likely to advertise - even to their own people - the fact that some of their hard line is now manufactured overseas.

Again, the assumption must be: if it isn't marked "USA", it wasn't made in the USA!

Gotta agree, makes you wonder if the way they're doing it is so that it will appear all the ratchets aren't imported, thereby slowly transferring the manufacturing overseas. Kinda like slowly boiling a frog, and before he knows it, he's dead. It's also possible all the ratchets *are* made in the USA, but they intend to take off the USA label so that later on they'll be able to transfer without much trouble.

Wrenchr, you still haven't gotten a response have you, maybe they even told you why they aren't marked USA?

 

[chad s]

Hey Chad,

Sorry, but I don't understand from your post how it was determined both the ratchets were US-made. Unless there was some overwhelming proof, I will have to stick with the assumption that the non-"USA"-marked tool is, in fact, imported.

Snap-on is extremely unlikely to leave this mark off by either intent or accident given the value of such an identification. This cannot be chalked up to an oversight.

Now, after all the trouble Stanley got into 10 years ago after intentionally mislabelling their imported products, Snap-on is unlikely to do the same thing. However, they are likewise not likely to advertise - even to their own people - the fact that some of their hard line is now manufactured overseas.

Again, the assumption must be: if it isn't marked "USA", it wasn't made in the USA!

So your saying that my F80 pictured above, which is clearly marked "USA" on the head, is US made, and the ones that dont say it are not made in the US? Why would they have some made here, and others not?

 

[Merkava_4]

It's also possible all the ratchets *are* made in the USA, but they intend to take off the USA label so that later on they'll be able to transfer without much trouble.

Bingo!!! That's what I'm thinking.

 

[ImportTuner]

Bingo!!! That's what I'm thinking.

Hey Merkava ... are you still going to buy Snap On if they go offshore?

 

[DavidtheDuke]

Bingo!!! That's what I'm thinking.

If they do go offshore, *especially* in this underhanded way, I won't be buying from them unless their prices are competitive against other Chinesiums. I don't HATE imported products, quality can be made anywhere, but a big part of the reason I buy SO is the tradition that they keep hand tools here (of course quality and service help out too).

Despite their efforts I think the word will get out, and I wouldn't be surprised if it nearly destroys them.

 

[wrenchr]

Hey Merkava ... are you still going to buy Snap On if they go offshore?

 

[eschoendorff]

I'll wait tilll they come out w/ the 3/8" compact head w/ the 72 teeth

I have one already... it's called a gearwrench.

 

[Merkava_4]

Hey Merkava ... are you still going to buy Snap On if they go offshore?

Only if they move to Hawaii. I love Snap-on but my principles and values come first.

 

[lbgradwell]

So your saying that my F80 pictured above, which is clearly marked "USA" on the head, is US made, and the ones that dont say it are not made in the US?

That would be my guess, yes...

Why would they have some made here, and others not?

The transition..! And the plausible deniability thereof...

It's also possible all the ratchets *are* made in the USA, but they intend to take off the USA label so that later on they'll be able to transfer without much trouble.

Yes, this might be valid too. If confronted with a huge public outcry when an irate customer demands to know why his ratchet is not made in the US, Snap-on can say the tool is still made domestically; they just decided to omit the USA mark. Since it's true (under this scenario), they could even show such tools being made in the States. Once people become used to no place-of-origin markings, it becomes easier to move production offshore.

Admittedly, this is all pure speculation. However, I think we can all agree that there is no honourable reason for them to remove the "Made in USA" stamp, and, if it goes, it certainly isn't for your benefit! The assumption must remain that if there's no mark, it was made offshore...

 

[DavidtheDuke]

Admittedly, this is all pure speculation. However, I think we can all agree that there is no honourable reason for them to remove the "Made in USA" stamp, and, if it goes, it certainly isn't for your benefit! The assumption must remain that if there's no mark, it was made offshore...

The only even slightly possible reason I think of for the omission is: They forgot. It's possible the USA stamp is handled in another line, and since the ratchets are new, the line might be a little disjointed for whatever reason. I say this because if they intended to start leaving off the USA mark, they would've started with the F80 and never put the USA on it, but they clearly have from one of the picture I've seen of them here. So hopefully this is all that was, but I doubt it, especially since SO closed those tool plants those few years ago, I don't think the trend is going to be bucked, and it could easily be the beginning of the end.

 

[chad s]

The only even slightly possible reason I think of for the omission is: They forgot. It's possible the USA stamp is handled in another line, and since the ratchets are new, the line might be a little disjointed for whatever reason. I say this because if they intended to start leaving off the USA mark, they would've started with the F80 and never put the USA on it, but they clearly have from one of the picture I've seen of them here. So hopefully this is all that was, but I doubt it, especially since SO closed those tool plants those few years ago, I don't think the trend is going to be bucked, and it could easily be the beginning of the end.

And thats VERY possible. A good example, my Snap On dealer also had a few F936's on the truck that didnt have the circle around the snap on/USA stamp on the head, and also didnt have the "On" and "Off" markings stamped. He said it was a strange variation he has only seen in the past 2 months or so. It wasnt a different model or anything, they simply omitted the circle and direction markings.

 

[lbgradwell]

The only even slightly possible reason I think of for the omission is: They forgot.

And thats VERY possible. A good example, my Snap On dealer also had a few F936's on the truck that didnt have the circle around the snap on/USA stamp on the head, and also didnt have the "On" and "Off" markings stamped. He said it was a strange variation he has only seen in the past 2 months or so. It wasnt a different model or anything, they simply omitted the circle and direction markings.

Yeaaahhh... I just can't go for that. If true, it sure shoots to Hell any claims of superior (or even passable) Quality Control!

 

[DavidtheDuke]

Yeaaahhh... I just can't go for that. If true, it sure shoots to Hell any claims of superior (or even passable) Quality Control!

Gotta agree, maybe the USA stamp will get more frequent as the demand for F80s slows down. Anything's up in the air though really. We'll just have to keep out eye out about this and future hand tools.