george4
Well-known member
Very nice. How did you handle rust removal?
Mini Lathe
- Thread starter dxdexter
- Start date
Uncle Buck
Banned
Very well done indeed, a much better quality machine than my Atlas. I think you did great for tooling as well; now if you could just fit it with an Aloris type toolpost and holder you would be flyin. Looking at the pics it does not appear as though the compound would lend itself to the design of an Aloris type post though, to bad. Lathe looks brand new though, smashing job cleaning er up.
BTW, REPAINT THE DRUMSWITCH!
It sticks out like a sore thumb! 
BTW, REPAINT THE DRUMSWITCH!
It sticks out like a sore thumb!
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PAToyota
Well-known member
Very nice rebuild!
goodfellow
Well-known member
I struggled with that same question many years ago. I wanted a lathe and mill that was adequate for automotive work. The hobby lathes (sherline, and the 7x10 or 7x12 minis) were not up to the task. I must have spent a year researching this issue and finally came to the following conclusions
1) seperate machines are preferred over the 3in1 types because of rigidity
and time issues with respect to repeated teardown between milling and lathe operations
2) a 9x20 lathe is the minimum for automotive and motorcycle work, yet most folks I spoke with who started with the 9x20's eventually traded them in for 12x36 or larger machines. They outgrew the 9x20s real fast
3) Older American iron is cheap to get, but VERY expensive to ship over long distances, and to maintain. Parts are hard to find and outrageously expensive.
4) For most automotive work, a heavy duty mill/drill is adequate. A full sized BP mill is a nice luxury, but it needs a lot of space.
5) No matter what you buy, plan to spend at LEAST twice as much on tooling as you did for the machine itself.
In the end, I was severely constrained by space and knowing full well the limitations, I opted for a large 3in1 machine with 31" between centers. It was adequate for machining larger automotive parts, but was marginal as a mill, yet functioned well as a lathe. When I moved to a larger house and shop I purchased a greared head mill/drill to make up for the shortcomings of the 3in1 with regard to milling capability.
Since my hobby is cars and not machining, I have limitations. I've done most all "simple" machine work myself, but I farm complex stuff (like three angle valve jobs) out to a local shop.
1) seperate machines are preferred over the 3in1 types because of rigidity
and time issues with respect to repeated teardown between milling and lathe operations
2) a 9x20 lathe is the minimum for automotive and motorcycle work, yet most folks I spoke with who started with the 9x20's eventually traded them in for 12x36 or larger machines. They outgrew the 9x20s real fast
3) Older American iron is cheap to get, but VERY expensive to ship over long distances, and to maintain. Parts are hard to find and outrageously expensive.
4) For most automotive work, a heavy duty mill/drill is adequate. A full sized BP mill is a nice luxury, but it needs a lot of space.
5) No matter what you buy, plan to spend at LEAST twice as much on tooling as you did for the machine itself.
In the end, I was severely constrained by space and knowing full well the limitations, I opted for a large 3in1 machine with 31" between centers. It was adequate for machining larger automotive parts, but was marginal as a mill, yet functioned well as a lathe. When I moved to a larger house and shop I purchased a greared head mill/drill to make up for the shortcomings of the 3in1 with regard to milling capability.
Since my hobby is cars and not machining, I have limitations. I've done most all "simple" machine work myself, but I farm complex stuff (like three angle valve jobs) out to a local shop.
johnny1290
Well-known member
Wow, that is beautiful!!
Sack
Well-known member
you probably learned more during your rebuild than I have in the 2 years of me owning one.
katit
Well-known member
What kind of automotive stuff you do? Could you give examples?
I am too constantly thinking about getting lathe or better yet 3 in 1. But I don't want to machine anything for cars. I want to make tools.
I constantly have a need in same kind of seal tool or bushing tool. All those cost stupid money for BMW and do not require lot of precision. 70mm or so is probably maximum diameter. I think making just set of tools for rear bushings will pay for whole machine.
goodfellow
Well-known member
Katit, your time is money. If you enjoy making tools, then the payoff is worth it. However, if your going to spend 20 hours making a tool for your car and that tool could have been purchased for $50, then it's a matter of priorities. I'd prefer to work on the car rather than making a tool for doing work on the car.
That said, I work on motorcycles and cars. My machining for the bikes has included pegs, risers, spacers, full length offset brackets, and decking cylinder heads. For the cars I've machined disks, drums, flywheels, rocker bosses, valve guides, and steering linkage parts; to name a few. The biggest part I ever had on the 3in1 was an 73 MGB cyliner head that I decked with a fly cutter.
I haven't made many large shop tools, but I've made some specialty tools when I was in dire need (a camshaft alignment tool for a Jag 4.2 engine comes to mind). They often weren't pretty, but they worked well.
katit
Well-known member
I'm talking about stuff like that:
http://www.technictool.com/rear-axle-2.htm
Tools on left side - $450
I like to work on cars, this is my hobby. But I hate to spend crazy amounts of $$ on stupid things like that. It's not time/mone deal. I spend time anyway and machining simple thing will be part of a hobby. I like it better then getting off work to drop drawings to shop. Sometimes machining plastic tube plug to push that seal will be very important. Machining proper guides for hydraulic press (to press bushing in/out)
What you did is very cool. I would send those job to shop
http://www.technictool.com/rear-axle-2.htm
Tools on left side - $450
I like to work on cars, this is my hobby. But I hate to spend crazy amounts of $$ on stupid things like that. It's not time/mone deal. I spend time anyway and machining simple thing will be part of a hobby. I like it better then getting off work to drop drawings to shop. Sometimes machining plastic tube plug to push that seal will be very important. Machining proper guides for hydraulic press (to press bushing in/out)
What you did is very cool. I would send those job to shop
You’re far better off fixing up an older heavy piece of iron than purchasing a new cheapie import.
Dxdexter, besides making a wise decision to purchase an older machine, you made it look like new. I’m sure it will give you years of good service and can be passed on to future generations. And most likely it’ll hold its’ value as there will always be demand for a smaller lathe like that for home use. Additionally I’m sure you’ll find things around the house to repair or make that you never dreamed of before.
Side note: You may want to keep your dial calipers somewhere higher than on the bedpan. Small chips and oil will mess up the fine rack and pinion gears.
Dxdexter, besides making a wise decision to purchase an older machine, you made it look like new. I’m sure it will give you years of good service and can be passed on to future generations. And most likely it’ll hold its’ value as there will always be demand for a smaller lathe like that for home use. Additionally I’m sure you’ll find things around the house to repair or make that you never dreamed of before.
Side note: You may want to keep your dial calipers somewhere higher than on the bedpan. Small chips and oil will mess up the fine rack and pinion gears.
Thanks guys I really appreciate all the compliments.
The lathe will swing 7" and 10"in the gap and is 20" between centers.
The lathe was stripped down (except the gearbox) into each individual piece. The bed and headstock were high pressure washed , then sanded and the other parts were de-greased in my parts cleaner. Every bolt and exposed metal part was wire brushed. The chucks were brightened with 800 grit emery cloth and a 3M Scotch Bright pad.
In order to remove the rust from the bed ways, I used naval jelly and steel wool followed by a 3M Scotch Bright pad. There was so little wear that the original machining marks are mostly still visible.
The old lathe has its quirks, like filling the oil reservoirs and the odd way to switch the backgear, but I enjoy using it just because of them. I can allready get more than what I paid back, and more if I wanted, But i think I'll be keeping it for awhile.
I learned not to leave the calipers under the lathe the hard way. I had to clean chips from them a few times. Novice mistake and lesson learned.
I was hesitant about showing the photos with the unpainted switch. I never did get around to doing it.
I don't know anything about Aloris tool posts. The machine came with two types of toolposts. One is a patented Myford design using a "special quick setting" tool clamp and Myford tools. The Myford tools (lathe included a 14 pc set) are specially designed to rock in a holder in order to adjust the height. The bolt is 1/2" and protrudes 2 1/2" from the cross slide.
I also made a chip (swarf) collection tray from a baking tray and some sheet metal. It makes cleanup much easier and I also placed one to collect the oil from the "constant loss" bearings and oilers.
The lathe will swing 7" and 10"in the gap and is 20" between centers.
The lathe was stripped down (except the gearbox) into each individual piece. The bed and headstock were high pressure washed , then sanded and the other parts were de-greased in my parts cleaner. Every bolt and exposed metal part was wire brushed. The chucks were brightened with 800 grit emery cloth and a 3M Scotch Bright pad.
In order to remove the rust from the bed ways, I used naval jelly and steel wool followed by a 3M Scotch Bright pad. There was so little wear that the original machining marks are mostly still visible.
The old lathe has its quirks, like filling the oil reservoirs and the odd way to switch the backgear, but I enjoy using it just because of them. I can allready get more than what I paid back, and more if I wanted, But i think I'll be keeping it for awhile.
I learned not to leave the calipers under the lathe the hard way. I had to clean chips from them a few times. Novice mistake and lesson learned.
I think you did great for tooling as well; now if you could just fit it with an Aloris type toolpost and holder you would be flyin. Looking at the pics it does not appear as though the compound would lend itself to the design of an Aloris type post though, to bad.
BTW, REPAINT THE DRUMSWITCH!
I was hesitant about showing the photos with the unpainted switch. I never did get around to doing it.
I don't know anything about Aloris tool posts. The machine came with two types of toolposts. One is a patented Myford design using a "special quick setting" tool clamp and Myford tools. The Myford tools (lathe included a 14 pc set) are specially designed to rock in a holder in order to adjust the height. The bolt is 1/2" and protrudes 2 1/2" from the cross slide.
I also made a chip (swarf) collection tray from a baking tray and some sheet metal. It makes cleanup much easier and I also placed one to collect the oil from the "constant loss" bearings and oilers.
Uncle Buck
Banned
I was kidding about the drum switch. Now that you have posted the additional pictures with the Myford toolpost stripped from the compound I see that it looks as though it would accept an Aloris or chi-com Phase II knockoff which is what I have, although you would likely have to replace the toolpost bolt shown in the picture with one a bit longer. OldCarGuy and others would confirm that the Aloris style toolpost would be a very nice addition to your machine.
If you look into it there are two types, the cheaper is called a piston type and the more expensive is a wedge type. Some guys dispise the piston type and insist nothing but a wedge type will do; however the wedge is considerably higher in cost than a piston so unless you have money fallin out yer pockets I would suggest going with a piston. I bought a Phase II brand piston toolpost from Enco tool about a year ago (another dispised company) delivere to my door for $130.00 I have found that it has performed to my expectations since then. Given the 7" swing of the Myford a 100 series, or AXA Aloris type would likely work just fine for your application. Also the 100/AXA size costs a bit less than the 200/BXA size I purchased.
If you never replace the toolpost and simply use your old rocker you still have a mighty fine looking machine in my opinion.
If you look into it there are two types, the cheaper is called a piston type and the more expensive is a wedge type. Some guys dispise the piston type and insist nothing but a wedge type will do; however the wedge is considerably higher in cost than a piston so unless you have money fallin out yer pockets I would suggest going with a piston. I bought a Phase II brand piston toolpost from Enco tool about a year ago (another dispised company) delivere to my door for $130.00 I have found that it has performed to my expectations since then. Given the 7" swing of the Myford a 100 series, or AXA Aloris type would likely work just fine for your application. Also the 100/AXA size costs a bit less than the 200/BXA size I purchased.
If you never replace the toolpost and simply use your old rocker you still have a mighty fine looking machine in my opinion.
66RICH
Well-known member
Dex:
Great job!!! Look's sweet!
Rich
Great job!!! Look's sweet!
Rich
l_bilyk
Well-known member
Since we're on the subject, what do you guys think this atlas is worth?
http://cgi.ebay.ca/10-x-24-Atlas-en...yZ104241QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.ca/10-x-24-Atlas-en...yZ104241QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
eschoendorff
Well-known member
l_bilyk
Well-known member
Well apparently not since no one has put a bid in.
Uncle Buck
Banned
Certainly not what is listed as a buy it now price. First it has no quick change gearbox so you can lop off about $500.00 right there. Second he says heavily tooled but fails to list what that consists of, all that I see on the machine is one chuck that looks to be more chuck than that machine needs in my opinion and an oversize taper mounted drill chuck for tailstock drilling additionally no toolpost appears in the photo at all. I noticed the black box mounted on the table in front of the machine; I would surmise that is the reversing lever for the motor.
To me that machine appears to have done quite a bit of work in it's time. I think it has timken taper bearings in the headstock and I think it would likely be from the 1970's to very early 80's at the latest. Of the Atlas machines out there this would be one of the heavier ones with the thicker bed ways. You must always remember for that kind of money there are many other machines with nice features such as v ways and heavier steel gears as opposed to the pot metal gears found in the Atlas. Some of those brands would include Logan/Montgomery Ward, South-Bend, and Sheldon to name a few. All of these machines had offerings in the benchtop or toolroom size most with single phase motors and sized well for the home machinist.
It sounds like I am bashing the Atlas however I am being realistic, in fact my machine is a Craftsman/Atlas that looks identical to that machine in all but a few respects. My machine has a quick change box, was in fact heavily equipped and did not look nearly as used as this machine when I bought mine at auction for $1000.00 about 10yrs back. To me that is no more than 5-6 hundred at the outside as pictured. If the heavy tooling referred to in the description were displayed, perhaps $900.00 at the outside and in fact that estimate might be $100-$150 or so too high!
I don't know anything about them, but I found this on the web. It may help.
Link: http://pico-systems.com/atlas.html
Uncle Buck
Banned
This guy makes some good points that I would agree with, however he did paint a worse than grim picture of the machine to begin with. In fact if I knew nothing of these machines I would have run screaming for the door before I even finished the article.
I know the machine has it's weaknesses as I pointed out above however I do not believe these machines to be quite as grim as this fellow portrays. First, it is an Atlas so yes I concede it is not a heavy machine. Second, I would agree to stick to those models with timken bearings as opposed to Babbit. Third, it sounds as though he bought a machine with some very important components and tooling missing. Fouth, he bought a machine that had been used to turn wood! I would indeed run from such a machine. Fifth, he crashed it, then nearly dropped a Bridgy on it! Sixth, he is quite right that a change in toolposts makes a world of difference on this machines performance.
An Atlas is what it is, lighter duty than other brands of comperable size. Not at all a bad machine if not dogged out when you buy it. Also not bad if you can get into it heavily tooled for fair money. As far as parts go you can find a vast number of parts for these machines both used (ebay) and new or otherwise used on the web and elsewhere, there are an abundance of opportunities available and plenty of product support out there for the Atlas/Craftsman machines. Also these machines are capable of doing good work and holding tolerances well enough for most applications. Simply put if you do not push these machines beyond their limitations you would do fine.
If you are carefull about the condition of the machine you buy, you would still be miles ahead of the import counterpart in my opinion. If you can find one of the brands I listed in my post above for the same money as an Atlas or not much more by all means pick the more substantial machine, but in the absence of that if you encounter a decent well tooled used Atlas for good money and you think it would do to get you started don't be afraid to take a chance on it. The key as with anything else is study the topic before throwing good money at it!.
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eschoendorff
Well-known member
BadBloodRacing
Well-known member
TSC sells a small metal lathe that I've looked at several time, does anyone have any experiance with this model?
http://www.tractorsupply.com/webapp...10551_10001_44134_-1______?rFlag=true&cFlag=1
http://www.tractorsupply.com/webapp...10551_10001_44134_-1______?rFlag=true&cFlag=1
That sure resembles the Cummins model from post #6 by "Detroit Diesel Man". You may want to contact him or perhaps he could comment. Its probably the same one re-badged by another distributer.
Sorry if I'm stepping on any toes here, and feel free to let me know that I am, but I was wondering if any of you that have your mini-lathes would be interested in making a couple of small (1 1/2" L x 1 1/2" Diam) parts out of aluminum for a person. If so, I might be interested. I need something made for my motorcycle.
rsanter
Well-known member
I have a couple of lathes and often do litle jobs for other people.
email me at [email protected]
bob
Email sent. Thanks in advance.
The lathe has almost paid for itself already. I am working on my forth paying job and this should take care of the initial cost (not including stand).
This project is an aluminum pulley for a soils testing machine. the machine needed to be modified to operate at a faster speed, so a larger drive pulley was required. The pulley uses an O-ring as the drive belt and was made from 4.5" x 1"long aluminum.
It feels great to operate this old British machine. Hard to believe its 56 years old.
This project is an aluminum pulley for a soils testing machine. the machine needed to be modified to operate at a faster speed, so a larger drive pulley was required. The pulley uses an O-ring as the drive belt and was made from 4.5" x 1"long aluminum.
It feels great to operate this old British machine. Hard to believe its 56 years old.
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eschoendorff
Well-known member
Dex, that is freakin' cool! 