My little rant about Craftsman tools

[IBJanky]

So let me start this off by saying that I am no professional mechanic or contractor. I'm just a regular guy who likes to fix things when they are broken, build things that have yet to break, and curse the gods when things don't turn out the way I want them to.

That being said, let me get on with my rant...

Ever since I was a little kid, I've always loved taking things apart, figuring out how they work, and putting them back together. My mom used to HATE this about me, as I would take apart my toys and try to rebuild them. Some successful, some not.

I also loved watching my dad fix/repair things at home using regular hand tools. Power tools weren't really popular where I grew up (Philippines), so he used whatever regular hand tools he could find at the local hardware store. I used to remember how labor intensive it was back then to cut a piece of 2x4 wood, using a regular hacksaw, old fashioned muscle, and sweat.

Fast forward many years later...

I moved to the USA when I was 15 years old. That's when my love affair with Craftsman tools started. I bought my first set of Craftsman tools, and spent a fortune (to my teenage budget) of my own hard-earned money. You can definitely tell the difference. They have served me well, and I still have that original set to this day.

I've always supported Craftsman because they were made in the USA. They are built well and last a lifetime. I loved Sears at the time because of their outstanding lifetime return policy. If you ever broke a tool (which I have yet to do), you could just take it into your local Sears store and get a replacement, no questions asked. This told me that they really stood behind their products, which I admired.

But as of late, I have noticed the quality of *some* their tools have really gone down. For example, I was at Sears today, because I wanted to get some locking pliers. I looked at the back of the package and it said "MADE IN CHINA"

Since when did Craftsman start making their handtools outside of the USA?

So I grab the Irwin brand vise grips next to it and they were made in China too. The only difference was that they felt better, and were CHEAPER. They also have the same lifetime warranty as the Craftsman set, they just felt better and looked to be built better.

If all this **** is made in China anyway, what's to stop me from going to the local Harbor Freight and just buying the same tools for much, much cheaper?

By the way, HF has a LIFETIME warranty on their hand tools as well. No receipt required, no questions asked.

I'm kinda sad really... I love Craftsman's made in the USA stuff (which they still have a lot of), and would buy those without any reservations. I love tools made here.... In the USA.... Built by AMERICANS, like me.

I feel like all these tool companies have outsourced the manufacturing operations to foreign countries to maximize profits. Whatever happened to American-built pride?

I feel like it's not too far away where all tool companies will shift production to foreign countries. I hope it never happens, but if it does, that'd be a sad day

myke

ps.
I don't have the budget to buy Snap On/Matco/etc. tools. They are awesome tools, but I'm no professional, and can't really justify spending that much money if a Craftsman set will do the job.

pps.
Now to think about it, I probably pointed out a huge flaw in our economy, not just in the tool industry

 

[e-tek]

Check out the link in the "Buy (North) American tools" thread! US made are out there!!
1

 

[ChrisF250]

 

[garfunkle24]

I assume that is your abbreviated response, representing only a small portion of the actual dead horses?

 

[slipjointed]

=

 

[boostedgt]

at least craftsman ratchets are still marked USA unlike some other brand..

 

[garfunkle24]

at least craftsman ratchets are still marked USA unlike some other brand..

Is this just a thread for dragging up the most flogged-to-death topics on GJ?

 

[volunteers]

I don't worry at all. If one day they are "made in Philippines", I will start to worry about.

 

[wave180]

I prefer to buy tools made from the Philppines than China.

 

[jrodc455]

The craftsman vise grips are made by irwin. So theyre actually the exact same chinese **** as the reg vise grips lol. They just got the black soft grip on em.

 

[IBJanky]

The craftsman vise grips are made by irwin. So theyre actually the exact same chinese **** as the reg vise grips lol. They just got the black soft grip on em.

I remember a while back seeing a set of Craftsman Professional locking pliers that were made in the USA:

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_...KIP_LEVEL&prop17=00945706000&isABTestAvl=true

They're out of stock online, and are not available in stores

myke

 

[4x4gearhead]

at least craftsman ratchets are still marked USA unlike some other brand..

Lol, my dual 80's may not be all US made but at least they dont have a plastic direction selecter that breaks off when you drop the ratchet on the floor accidentally.

 

[camarotoolman]

They're not called crapsman for no reason!

 

[kythri]

Lol, my dual 80's may not be all US made but at least they dont have a plastic direction selecter that breaks off when you drop the ratchet on the floor accidentally.

ZOMGZ LOL LIKE USE THE CHEAPEST SUB-$20 CRAFTSMAN RATCHET TO COMPARE TO AN 85 DOLLAR SNAP-ON LULZ AND THEN MAKE STUFF UP ROFLMAO!!!!!!11!!!!!ONE!

If we're going to beat a dead horse, then let's get serious about it.

 

[kythri]

Since when did Craftsman start making their handtools outside of the USA?

Since about 30+ years ago.

Certain elements of the Craftsman line have been outsourced for quite some time. Sadly, it seems more items in the line are finding their way overseas, but, to be accurate, Craftsman isn't "making their handtools outside of the USA."

The majority of stuff, including the hardline (ratchets, sockets, screwdrivers, raised-panel wrenches, etc.) are all still made in the USA.

While you may not like to hear it, China's a big country. Just because something is made in China doesn't mean it's out of the same factory as Harbor Freight's stuff (and as is evidenced by a lot of discussion here, even if it did, it doesn't mean it's ****).

 

[Danglerb]

I wonder how fond many would be if they had actually ever been around a dead horse. They smell plenty bad without beating.

Maybe we need a new section, group tool therapy, for rants etc?

 

[Techniker]

at least craftsman ratchets are still marked USA unlike some other brand..

I was actually going through my tool drawers the other day and found myself looking at the country of origin (not something I normally do). I was looking more specifically at my Craftsman items and surprisingly, I would say that the majority of the items were Made in the USA.

 

[Techniker]

Since about 30+ years ago.

Certain elements of the Craftsman line have been outsourced for quite some time. Sadly, it seems more items in the line are finding their way overseas, but, to be accurate, Craftsman isn't "making their handtools outside of the USA."

The majority of stuff, including the hardline (ratchets, sockets, screwdrivers, raised-panel wrenches, etc.) are all still made in the USA.

While you may not like to hear it, China's a big country. Just because something is made in China doesn't mean it's out of the same factory as Harbor Freight's stuff (and as is evidenced by a lot of discussion here, even if it did, it doesn't mean it's ****).

Exactly- take Fluke meters- made in China (some Thailand). Incidentally, you will also find a lot/most items that people are so passionate about are nothing more than brand name generics. It's surprisingly common. You can pick up the generic version for about 1/3 the price- same quality, same item.

 

[GirlnAgarage]

OP, instead of buying new Cman go find good used ones.

 

[4x4gearhead]

ZOMGZ LOL LIKE USE THE CHEAPEST SUB-$20 CRAFTSMAN RATCHET TO COMPARE TO AN 85 DOLLAR SNAP-ON LULZ AND THEN MAKE STUFF UP ROFLMAO!!!!!!11!!!!!ONE!

If we're going to beat a dead horse, then let's get serious about it.

Im sorry, was his reference not to a snap on dual 80 that isnt marked USA anymore? I believe it was. I personally have always had bad luck with craftsman ratchets whether it be the $14 cheapy to the $30 low profile pos. Im not looking to start a ******* match over it, I was just stating my opinion just like everyone else. But, what do I know? I just wrench for a living. LOLZORSK8Zcoptor!!

 

[diesel research]

Everyone keeps claiming "majority made in USA", but the idea of majority hasn't really been defined so well. If you exclude most of the wrenches, you get one answer. If you concentrate mostly on wrenches, you get a different answer. That is wrenches of various types. Ratcheting, combo, flarenut, deep offset, stubby, "elbow", "spline", crowfoot, etc.

That is the make or break part of the deal. Just depends on which aisle you are in and how fast your local store moves merchandise.

Clear screw drivers and raised panel wrenches aren't particularly much to boast about, and in a few cases have some room for complaint regardless of price.

 

[NWphotog]

Im sorry, was his reference not to a snap on dual 80 that isnt marked USA anymore? I believe it was. I personally have always had bad luck with craftsman ratchets whether it be the $14 cheapy to the $30 low profile pos. Im not looking to start a ******* match over it, I was just stating my opinion just like everyone else. But, what do I know? I just wrench for a living. LOLZORSK8Zcoptor!!

I have to admit the previous poster had a very good point. As far as the low profile being a POS, that just points to you being pretty blind to quality tools.

 

[byoungblood]

Just do what some of us have done and buy Wright/S-K/Proto/Blackhawk, or as suggested earlier, buy used Craftsman if they've offshored something you want.

Yes, the above brands are slightly more expensive (many times only slightly higher than Craftsman's non-sale prices on single items), but at least they haven't sold out yet.

 

[thesilverone]

again with this? really?

 

[4x4gearhead]

I have to admit the previous poster had a very good point. As far as the low profile being a POS, that just points to you being pretty blind to quality tools.

And that point was? If the craftsman low profile ratchets are such a quality tool then why is it that I was bringing mine in once every two weeks to get warranted? Im sure youre going to respond with "because you abused it" which isnt true. The gear would always get burred and the ratchet would switch from forward to reverse as I ratcheted. I went thru like 3-4 of the 3/8, all did the same thing. I am not blind to products that arent snap-on. I am not a "buys everything that says snap-on on it" type of guy, I use stuff of all different price/quality.

 

[chewy7]

=

 

[thetreshon]

So let me start this off by saying that I am no professional mechanic or contractor. I'm just a regular guy who likes to fix things when they are broken, build things that have yet to break, and curse the gods when things don't turn out the way I want them to.

That being said, let me get on with my rant...

Ever since I was a little kid, I've always loved taking things apart, figuring out how they work, and putting them back together. My mom used to HATE this about me, as I would take apart my toys and try to rebuild them. Some successful, some not.

I also loved watching my dad fix/repair things at home using regular hand tools. Power tools weren't really popular where I grew up (Philippines), so he used whatever regular hand tools he could find at the local hardware store. I used to remember how labor intensive it was back then to cut a piece of 2x4 wood, using a regular hacksaw, old fashioned muscle, and sweat.

Fast forward many years later...

I moved to the USA when I was 15 years old. That's when my love affair with Craftsman tools started. I bought my first set of Craftsman tools, and spent a fortune (to my teenage budget) of my own hard-earned money. You can definitely tell the difference. They have served me well, and I still have that original set to this day.

I've always supported Craftsman because they were made in the USA. They are built well and last a lifetime. I loved Sears at the time because of their outstanding lifetime return policy. If you ever broke a tool (which I have yet to do), you could just take it into your local Sears store and get a replacement, no questions asked. This told me that they really stood behind their products, which I admired.

But as of late, I have noticed the quality of *some* their tools have really gone down. For example, I was at Sears today, because I wanted to get some locking pliers. I looked at the back of the package and it said "MADE IN CHINA"

Since when did Craftsman start making their handtools outside of the USA?

So I grab the Irwin brand vise grips next to it and they were made in China too. The only difference was that they felt better, and were CHEAPER. They also have the same lifetime warranty as the Craftsman set, they just felt better and looked to be built better.

If all this **** is made in China anyway, what's to stop me from going to the local Harbor Freight and just buying the same tools for much, much cheaper?

By the way, HF has a LIFETIME warranty on their hand tools as well. No receipt required, no questions asked.

I'm kinda sad really... I love Craftsman's made in the USA stuff (which they still have a lot of), and would buy those without any reservations. I love tools made here.... In the USA.... Built by AMERICANS, like me.

I feel like all these tool companies have outsourced the manufacturing operations to foreign countries to maximize profits. Whatever happened to American-built pride?

I feel like it's not too far away where all tool companies will shift production to foreign countries. I hope it never happens, but if it does, that'd be a sad day

myke

ps.
I don't have the budget to buy Snap On/Matco/etc. tools. They are awesome tools, but I'm no professional, and can't really justify spending that much money if a Craftsman set will do the job.

pps.
Now to think about it, I probably pointed out a huge flaw in our economy, not just in the tool industry

Well, the way I understand it, IBJanky, came from the Phillipines, for whatever reason - he had to move with his family, for freedom reasons, job opportunities, or whatever....

So he's proud to buy tools etc. from the country that he now loves and takes pride living in - I'm sure he probably also loves things from his home country too...

I live in Canada and love to hear when people from other countries, like several of my croatian/macedonian neighbours have said to me "why the hell would I come to this country and buy a car [or whatever else we're talking about] from a country other than Canada - I moved here for the rights and freedoms that you have, so why wouldn't I support this economy".

A lot of people say, "well, look - it's a global economy, nothing you can do, who cares what country it's from - it's MY wallet." Look at Japan, do you think they give a **** about the global economy? They won't buy from any country other than their own! They only want to support their own economy...and they seem to be doing okay.

I buy Canadian first, American 2nd - they're my nextdoor neighbour.

If I moved to China I'd feel obligated to buy their products, even though I'd cringe at first...as a person living in China, I'd be screwing myself over if I bought foreign made products, plus everything would be cheap as hell! Oh wait...but with my salary there, I couldn't afford anything...

P.S. this thread is NOT beating a dead horse...being from another country and loving his U.S. tools, he gave that so-called dead horse a different spin.

 

[PDR John]

And that point was? If the craftsman low profile ratchets are such a quality tool then why is it that I was bringing mine in once every two weeks to get warranted? Im sure youre going to respond with "because you abused it" which isnt true. The gear would always get burred and the ratchet would switch from forward to reverse as I ratcheted. I went thru like 3-4 of the 3/8, all did the same thing. I am not blind to products that arent snap-on. I am not a "buys everything that says snap-on on it" type of guy, I use stuff of all different price/quality.

Not to change the subject: Who is whitney and why should we be trying to kill them.


I know I'm the newbie, but might as well see where this goes.

 

[jeffk14]

I assume that is your abbreviated response, representing only a small portion of the actual dead horses?

ROTMFFLMMFATFO!

 

[volunteers]

I prefer to buy tools made from the Philppines than China.

Unfortunately, there are no tools "made in Philippines".

 

[wave180]

Unfortunately, there are no tools "made in Philippines".

If one day they are "made in Philippines", I will start to buy them first before China made tools.

 

[Jim C.]

OP, instead of buying new Cman go find good used ones.

I agree. That's what I've been doing for the last few years. I rarely buy new Craftsman stuff any more, and won't even consider it if it's not made in the USA. There's a ton of Craftsman tools in the used tool market. Most of it still in pretty good condition and very affordable. Check on line auctions, garage sales, flea markets, etc. I've also had some VERY good luck finding tools at big, multi day, car shows that attract used car part vendors and usually a few used and new tool vendors. This past summer I attended the Bloomington Gold Corvette Show in St. Charles, Illinois, and there was one guy there who had several tables filled with Craftsman stuff for sale. I spent about $60 and came home with a few dozen sockets, and several wrenches. According to what the vendor told me, he travels from show to show selling this stuff all over the midwest. He had a pretty nice inventory of both SAE and metric.

Jim C.

 

[kythri]

Im sorry, was his reference not to a snap on dual 80 that isnt marked USA anymore? I believe it was. I personally have always had bad luck with craftsman ratchets whether it be the $14 cheapy to the $30 low profile pos.

Now you're moving the goalposts. Your statement was, and I quote:

Lol, my dual 80's may not be all US made but at least they dont have a plastic direction selecter that breaks off when you drop the ratchet on the floor accidentally.

The next-gen thin-profile and the 84T premiums don't have plastic selector levers. Your argument is void.

But, what do I know? I just wrench for a living. LOLZORSK8Zcoptor!!

Appeals to authority really don't carry a lot of weight.

 

[IBJanky]

If one day they are "made in Philippines", I will start to buy them first before China made tools.

Ditto. I know from first hand experience that products made in the Philippines are of higher quality.

I believe Intel makes some of their processors there.

Also as a child, my family owned a clothing factory, and we would subcontract to US companies to manufacture garments. (Gap, Levi's, etc). We sold the business many years ago, but I imagine the same things are still bring produced there.

myke

 

[kc-steve]

OP, instead of buying new Cman go find good used ones.

I agree. That's what I've been doing for the last few years. I rarely buy new Craftsman stuff any more, and won't even consider it if it's not made in the USA. . . .

Jim C.

That's WHY I started my Junkyard Tools website. It is difficult to go around from garage sale to garage sale to flea market, yadda-yadda looking for something specific, so I listed single items for people to buy to complete sets of tools or just to buy old USA made tools. Then also consider the cost of time and gasoline . . . here it is laid out for ya and easy to find.

http://junkyardtools.com/catalog/

I've still got a "ton" of stuff to add to the catalog though, but I'm working on it.

Steve

 

[diesel research]

Look at Japan, do you think they give a **** about the global economy? They won't buy from any country other than their own! They only want to support their own economy...and they seem to be doing okay.

When is the last time you visited/lived there? Seems to be quite a market for made in USA tools there. Sure they have a decent selection of their own, but don't for one second, believe the market is completely isolated.

 

[GirlnAgarage]

When is the last time you visited/lived there? Seems to be quite a market for made in USA tools there. Sure they have a decent selection of their own, but don't for one second, believe the market is completely isolated.

+1

thethreshon, what basis do you form this opinion about Japan? Having lived there for three years, I don't agree with your assessment. They sure as heck protect the integrity and tradition of their country, and they build their own awesome stuff, but they also love their imports, tangible items and western culture.

 

[Squankum]

I say, "go easy on the boy!" The OP, that is.

a) Maybe he doesn't spend his life in the tools section at GJ, like the rest of us weirdos. He may not know that it's a dead horse/common lament/tale of woe & intrigue. Note by his ID that he joined us last month.

2) The decline and offshoring of Craftsman was news to me, too! I thought I had all the tools I needed, until the past year, when I got more space to set up shop in, more cars to work on, a little more cash flow, and, of course, fell in with this bad crowd. And moved to a place about a mile away from my town's Sears. So I was kinda surprised to hear about it, too.

III: And I understand his disappointment. Like many of us (okay, I'll be speaking for myself here), he grew up with the stuff, and the price/quality/value/Made in USA combination of factors was really quite decent. The core of my Craftsman hand tools was purchased mid-80's, and it has really done right by me. Heck, I don't think I've even had any problems with my raised panel ratchets. They've got horrible slop in the gears, yeah, but no failures, and I love me a pushbutton release and a flippy lever. And they kept working.

(I've since upgraded and added fancy French, Taiwanese, and high zoot American to the ratchet pile, too.)

So yeah, IBJanky, welcome to the Concerned Craftsman Club.

 

[IBJanky]

Thanks. I'm new here and I didn't think the crowd would be somewhat "rough"

myke

 

[jahnin]

why not... when it comes to quality they are better but of course with higher cost