teach me about gas lines

[caper150]

I am going to be installing NG to the shop but MN Energy will only run the line to the nearest building on the property which happen to be the house and not the shop they told me that I can do it myself but I have no clue about what to run. They said something about plastic lines and I stopped by Menards yesterday and saw what they meantg by it. How do I know what size I'll need 1/2" or 3/4". They said at Menards that if I use the plastic type I'll need to put it in conduit but wasn't sure about copper, MN Energy didn't say anything about conduit.I'd just like to do the run myself and then get someone who knows what they are doing to hook it all up.

 

[trbomax]

The desision to run plastic has a lot to do with the distance involved and the logistics of the run. Ive never heard the conduit thing. In the ohio shops I used 1" galv pipe to run about 100'. The 1" was overkill but it was free at the time. The size is determined by the ammount of btu's you will be expecting to use and the length of the run. I would think that in most cases 3/4 would be more than adequate but there are formulas for that. Someone here with hvac experience should have the tables.Personally I think the plastic would be a pita,but thats because Ive never done it and would be totally outside my comfort zone!

edit) I would also be uncomfortable with plastic gas line because of the fire issue.Whatever you do, have it professionally leak tested before covering it up.

 

[Briguy_123]

This should help

www.hvactechnicaltraining.com/files/Natural_Gas_Pipe_Sizing.ppt

 

[letz4wheel]

Copper nor galvanized should be used to run gas line. Both are against code. The correct is either black iron pipe or the newer plastic.

 

[trbomax]

Copper nor galvanized should be used to run gas line. Both are against code. The correct is either black iron pipe or the newer plastic.

It was ng, not propane, and its been there almost 40 yrs w/o a problem so I'd guess its ok.

 

[oldgoat]

They might have changed it by now but a plumber told me several years ago that the use of galv was alllowed in some areas of the country. In mine however I still used black pipe.

 

[caper150]

Well I got a chance to talk today to the gas guy on my lunch break and he told me that if I used the plastic line( more like a stainless line with a covering on it) I did have to put it in conduit but if I ran copper I would not. He didn't say anything about black or galv. pipe, but told me that they use a plastic type with a seperate wire that didn't need to be in conduit and that he knew of some plumbers in the area that could install that pipe probably cheaper that the others, so I have a call into them, haven't heard back from them yet though. He also told me that 1/2" should be all I need for what my need are.

 

[chickenhauler]

For outdoor runs, you can't beat yellow PE (high-density polyethylene plastic). 1" is only around $.40 a foot vs 1/2" black steel at over $1.25 Gas companies direct bury it, but I always make sure it's protected. A Telsco or similar compression fitting on each end onto 1" black iron, then reduce as needed to enter your buildings.

 

[dave67fd]

Cant MN Energy run it to your desired location? They have their allowance and should only charge you a nominal fee to run to the shop.

How far is the house from the shop? As mentioned, you need to know the size (btu's) of your heating requirements. Confirm all your town/state and/or national codes.

 

[plumbstupid]

Use the plastic. It's cheap, it's durable and it is easy to work with.

The most important part: Do a BTU load calculation. You need to know the size of your service and how many BTU's each fixture uses. The gas company should help you out with this.

 

[DistantHorizon]

For outdoor runs, you can't beat yellow PE (high-density polyethylene plastic). 1" is only around $.40 a foot vs 1/2" black steel at over $1.25 Gas companies direct bury it, but I always make sure it's protected. A Telsco or similar compression fitting on each end onto 1" black iron, then reduce as needed to enter your buildings.

How do you protect it?

 

[chickenhauler]

Depends on the location. S&D pipe, or even corrugated.

 

[porcupine73]

Some people like concrete encased for underneath driveways/parking lots, but that's probably more for commercial/industrial settings than residential. Sometimes they spec continuous pour but the contractors usually want to do layered pours on larger installs.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

I agree with the recommendation for PE pipe. The size you'll need depends on the distance and the load. You MUST use PE pipe rated for gas. Don't use PE water pipe. It's unlawful.

You can heat fuse it (with a couple thousand worth of equipment) or use the correct compression or stab couplings. The stab couplings would be my recommendation. They are darn near fool proof.

Use an anodeless service riser on each end. Make sure you install a shut off near your gas meter that will take that line out of service if you need to. Install a 12 or 14 gauge insulated tracer wire in the ditch with your pipe so it can be located in the future if needed. You can just leave the wire a little long and wrap it around the base of each riser (you don't need to connect it to anything.)

Bury it at least 18-inches deep (or deeper if code requires it in your area).

I didn't case mine, and I wouldn't actually recommend casing it.

Good Luck

Phil

 

[bdkruger1]

Can the plastic line be used indoors?

 

[brewchief]

Can the plastic line be used indoors?

No, you must transition to a different materiel before entering a building.

 

[Frank The Plumber]

I am going to be installing NG to the shop but MN Energy will only run the line to the nearest building on the property which happen to be the house and not the shop they told me that I can do it myself but I have no clue about what to run. They said something about plastic lines and I stopped by Menards yesterday and saw what they meantg by it. How do I know what size I'll need 1/2" or 3/4". They said at Menards that if I use the plastic type I'll need to put it in conduit but wasn't sure about copper, MN Energy didn't say anything about conduit.I'd just like to do the run myself and then get someone who knows what they are doing to hook it all up.

I'll sell you my threader....... Hand held type.

 

[warren57]

OK, I am a contractor in Colorado, so here goes.... first, in CO, nat. gas has to be ran in black pipe (or plastic). If underground, the black pipe has to have a protective coating, so you either buy "Scotchcoat" your supplier will know what that is, or you hand wrap it with "pipe wrap". Either way works. Now, any joints...couplings, fittings have to be welded underground. It buries in a ditch 24"deep with warning tape at least 6" above thew pipe. Sounds terrible, but really isn't.
Plastic has to be an approved and UL listed product that has been accepted by the building dept. in your area. It should be buried deeper to prevent cutting it digging post holes, etc. Here it has to be 36" deep. Should have a tracer wire attached for future location needs and the same warning tape buried in the ditch. Plastic can not be buried under slab or penetrate any foundation walls or slab. That is any area that could have ground settling and a chance to shear off. So, run it building to the building underground in plastic and convert to steel to go into the building.
Here we can't use galvanized because of the additives (the smell agents) added to the gas and what is in the gas, it breaks down the gal. coating inside and it flakes off causing future regulator problems. You should check your local building department for requirements in your area.
As for sizing, that's a whole new lesson. You have to know the existing load on the piping after it leaves the meter (btu) and the added load, along with footage between the appliances and existing sizing between the appliances as well as what you want to add.
In addition you will need to know your btu per cu. ft. content in your area and the pressure supplied at you meter. Your gas supplier should be able to help you with all this information and should be able to supply you with a sizing chart for the pipe. If not, they can be down loaded from the internet. Again sounds hard, but isn't. if you send me a sketch with the lengths and btu usage, I will do it for you...
Good luck

 

[brokenknee]

I would not use the plastic. The propane company put it in at my lake place, lasted a year before the gophers chewed a hole in it. I had them replace it with copper. If it were me I would use the copper (it has to be rated for gas not sure if it is L or M) or the stainless. I have been told galvanized is not allowed, it is because the galvanizing can flak off and clog orifices.

 

[Sureshot]

I have had the plastic lines for 12 yrs.

 

[brokenknee]

I have had the plastic lines for 12 yrs.

I only had it a year before a gopher chewed threw it. If you don't have to worry about ground rodents, then it would be OK.