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Anybody like Leatherman Juice CS4?

porphyre

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Hey guys. I normally carry a Swiss Army knife but have been looking at Leatherman/multitools recently due to all of Stuey's posts. I think it'd be useful to have a pair of pliers/wire cutters in my pocket 24/7. This is not going to be a hardworking tool - frankly, it'll be more of a "social" tool and emergency tool.

Tools I need:
Knife (duh)
Pliers
Wire cutters
Corkscrew
Bottlecap opener
Phillips screwdriver
Flat screwdriver
Wood saw

The Leatherman Juice CS4 meets these requirements. Does anyone have one? Like it/dislike it?

Is there another company I should be looking at?

Thanks.
 
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Outlawmws

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I've had one for years, and for the $$ its a good deal. I bought it mostly to have as a camping/fanny pack tool and it has bailed me out quite a number of times.

I'm not generally a Leatherman/multitool fan for everyday use, but for a lot of functionality in a small light package, they are hard to beat. If it has the features you want, I'd say go for it.
 

rebelram

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I work in the IT industry as a Systems Admin. I have a CS4 and carried it for a few years. Even in a server room / computer lab environment I didn't find it any more useful than a Swiss Army Knife. I am usually within a few steps of a tool bag or tool box at work anyways and most of those are well stocked with much better pliers.

What I can tell you about the CS4 is that I hated the scissors on it. They just didn't cut as well as the scissors on any of my Victorinox SAKs. That being said, the blade on the CS4 was very sharp. The saw on the CS4 was too short, although I really didn't have a use for it in an IT environment. The pliers on the CS4 worked ok for most computer hardware or wiring problems. Before I purchased the CS4, I had been carrying a fullsize Gerber multitool (can't remember the model number, maybe it was a 600) The pliers on the Gerber were much better, but they were also much larger. The scissors on the Gerber were small but did work well. Another complaint I had about the CS4 was that the phillips screwdriver was too short.

Currently in my IT work environment, I am usually carrying a Victorinox Explorer or a Super Tinker. Both have scissors and a phillips screwdriver (the 2 tools I use most besides the blade). If you really have to have a saw then the Victorinox Huntsman model might have most of your tool requirements covered. Although my personal preference on a SAK with a saw is to go to the larger sized Trekker model.

I think the reason I went back to SAKs over multitools through the years is because SAKs were lighter(I carry enough other items in my pockets as is, so weight does make a difference). The CS4 did seem a bit heavier than most of my SAKs. I also felt that overall the pliers on the CS4 weren't as heavy duty as I would like for tasks I do on a daily basis outside of work.
 

Subyroo651

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I've had one for years, and for the $$ its a good deal. I bought it mostly to have as a camping/fanny pack tool and it has bailed me out quite a number of times.

I'm not generally a Leatherman/multitool fan for everyday use, but for a lot of functionality in a small light package, they are hard to beat. If it has the features you want, I'd say go for it.


+1 on all of the above. I will admit I m a bit of a Multi-tool junkie but anyway, I have the CS4 which I keep in my Trail pack for Mt. Biking or general outdoor excursions.

For Everyday carry I would recommend the Juice S2, you do forgo some of those features but it is a much more pocketable tool. I have two actually and love them both.

I would carry the CS4 but my LM rides in the small coin pocket on my jeans so it has to be smaller.

Edit: Also If you leave out the wood saw and scissors(which aren't on your list anyway) The Juice C2 could fit the bill too.
 
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c_mccann

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The pliers are the only real draw to a leatherman over an SAK. The weight of a leatherman is a negative, the SAK is much better in that respest, and that the knife folds out much more easily on the SAK.
 

BHH

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Hey guys. I normally carry a Swiss Army knife but have been looking at Leatherman/multitools recently due to all of Stuey's posts. I think it'd be useful to have a pair of pliers/wire cutters in my pocket 24/7. This is not going to be a hardworking tool - frankly, it'll be more of a "social" tool and emergency tool.

Tools I need:
Knife (duh)
Pliers
Wire cutters
Corkscrew
Bottlecap opener
Phillips screwdriver
Flat screwdriver
Wood saw

The Leatherman Juice CS4 meets these requirements. Does anyone have one? Like it/dislike it?

Is there another company I should be looking at?

Thanks.

No need to have a corkscrew in your multi-tool... If you wear shoes you have one on your at all times...

 

canuckian

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I have the juice S2 and really wasn't impressed with it. if it was better built and didn't fall apart (twice) I'd likely have a better impression of it. the problem with both of mine was that the part that kept the blade from going further than parallel with the handle simply fell back into the handle and eventually fell out.
i also have a Squirt that I carry on my keys and that little thing is one of the handiest and best biolt little tools I've ever owned!
Just got a skeletool from Amazon in the mail today. Hope it lives up to all the hype!
 

Subyroo651

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I have the juice S2 and really wasn't impressed with it. if it was better built and didn't fall apart (twice) I'd likely have a better impression of it. the problem with both of mine was that the part that kept the blade from going further than parallel with the handle simply fell back into the handle and eventually fell out.
i also have a Squirt that I carry on my keys and that little thing is one of the handiest and best biolt little tools I've ever owned!
Just got a skeletool from Amazon in the mail today. Hope it lives up to all the hype!

That's unfortunate and rare, although I have heard of that happening. I've had mine for 3yrs with zero issues. For an emergency/Social tool you'll be fine and they are warrantied for 25yrs anyway.

I would steer clear of any that are sold at the Warehouse stores (Costco,Sam's club etc..) they seem to be the factory rejects and are priced accordingly.
 

IndyGarage

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I've carried the Juice S2 in my pocket for about 12 years straight. I use it nearly every day, multiple times a day, and I'm not easy on it. I tried the CS4, but it was a little "fat" to carry all the time, and I would tend to not want to carry it. In the other thread I said I'm trying a Wingman as a replacement. So far I like the Wingman, but I'm feeling like it may be a little large for my pocket.

I've gone through a couple of them, but it's because I've lost them, not broken them. I've tried many many multitools and knives from all kinds of brands, and it is the best combination of size and capability I've found.

It's not perfect however. It's designed to compete with a pocket knife or a swiss army knife, not a full-size multitool. The handle comfort is a bit lacking. The knife blade is a bit thin and short. The blades don't lock.

I have a hard time believing Canuckian when he says two of them have "fallen apart" on him. Like I said, I've had one in my pocket almost every day for 12 years and not had anything fall off. I gave a couple of them as gifts 10 years ago, and my BIL showed me his last summer - nearly all the color was beaten off of it, but he said it still works great.
 
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porphyre

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Thanks for the input guys. Sounds like it's a good tool. I didn't realize it was warrantied for 25 years. Scissors aren't a req, but I guess would be nice, even if they don't work well. I've been carrying a cheapie $20 Swiss Army for years that doesn't have scissors on it.

c_mccann hits it on the head:

The pliers are the only real draw to a leatherman over an SAK. The weight of a leatherman is a negative, the SAK is much better in that respest, and that the knife folds out much more easily on the SAK.

I really want something with pliers. :beer:
 
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canuckian

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I have a hard time believing Canuckian when he says two of them have "fallen apart" on him. Like I said, I've had one in my pocket almost every day for 12 years and not had anything fall off. I gave a couple of them as gifts 10 years ago, and my BIL showed me his last summer - nearly all the color was beaten off of it, but he said it still works great.

It's not for you to believe or not believe really. it's just what happened. Got one, used it for about 6 months( wasn't hard on it by any means) opened the blade one day and the retainer piece folded back in the handle. Fiddled with it for a bit and it fell out in my hand. Got it warrantied and they sent me a new one. Used that one in the same manner for about a year
and was cutting an apple one day and the blade slipped out of it's notch again. Same exact
thing happened as with the first. Not saying at all that leatherman makes a bad product, I've just had odd and bad luck with that particular model. I've had other leather mans that I've used much harder than this one and had no issues. Hell like I said in my post, I just got a new skeletool today and I'm sure it'll serve me well for a good few years. I've always been a fan of their products.
 

Subyroo651

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I would say that a true locking blade would be more ideal for any type of food prep or cutting. I never subject my blade to a task that I wouldn't feel comfortable doing w/o a locking blade. Even though cutting an apple doesn't seem like much, it could target the specific weakness of that tool which is the blade retention.

I will agree however, that it is not built nearly as well as the Charge models and some others(which I have as well).
 

IndyGarage

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It's not for you to believe or not believe really. it's just what happened. Got one, used it for about 6 months( wasn't hard on it by any means) opened the blade one day and the retainer piece folded back in the handle. Fiddled with it for a bit and it fell out in my hand. Got it warrantied and they sent me a new one. Used that one in the same manner for about a year
and was cutting an apple one day and the blade slipped out of it's notch again. Same exact
thing happened as with the first. Not saying at all that leatherman makes a bad product, I've just had odd and bad luck with that particular model. I've had other leather mans that I've used much harder than this one and had no issues. Hell like I said in my post, I just got a new skeletool today and I'm sure it'll serve me well for a good few years. I've always been a fan of their products.

Incorrect. I can believe anything I want to believe.

Now about your story - as I said above, I've owned three different Juice S2's over the past 12 years and they have been in my pocket nearly every day and I've opened each one of them thousands of times. I've opened the knife blades thousands of times. I've cranked on the knives - hard - hundreds of times, and I've personally known others who've done the same thing.

And, if you do any internet searching on the Juice S2, you will find many, many people who have had exactly the same experience as I have. There are dozens of youtube videos where people say it's the best pocket carry multitool made - just like me (I didn't realize that others had figured this out, but I'm not surprised)

And at the same time you will find a few people who complain about them falling apart.

I attribute this to what I call the "amazon effect". If you pick the best product known to man and go on Amazon and read the reviews, you will find someone who says "it falls apart". Did it really fall apart? maybe. or is this a guy from the competitor that doesn't have a snowball's chance of selling his item unless he can convince a few people that the perfect one is a waste of money? Or is is just some enthusiastic internet expert who "knows someone" where it fell apart and relays the story as their own?

If you said one of them fell apart on you, I would be surprised, but probably believe you. When you say "I had two of them fall apart with hardly any use" is pretty unbelievable, based on my personal experience with the item - which is way more than yours.


Possible? well anything is possible, but very very unlikely.
 

canuckian

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Incorrect. I can believe anything I want to believe.

Now about your story - as I said above, I've owned three different Juice S2's over the past 12 years and they have been in my pocket nearly every day and I've opened each one of them thousands of times. I've opened the knife blades thousands of times. I've cranked on the knives - hard - hundreds of times, and I've personally known others who've done the same thing.

And, if you do any internet searching on the Juice S2, you will find many, many people who have had exactly the same experience as I have. There are dozens of youtube videos where people say it's the best pocket carry multitool made - just like me (I didn't realize that others had figured this out, but I'm not surprised)


And at the same time you will find a few people who complain about them
falling apart.


I attribute this to what I call the "amazon effect". If you pick the best product known to man and go on Amazon and read the reviews, you will find someone
who says "it falls apart". Did it really fall apart? maybe. or is this a guy from
the competitor that doesn't have a snowball's chance of selling his item unless
he can convince a few people that the perfect one is a waste of money? Or is
is just some enthusiastic internet expert who "knows someone" where it fellapart and relays the story as their own?
If you said one of them fell apart on you, I would be surprised, but probably believe you. When you say "I had two of them fall apart with hardly any use"
is pretty unbelievable, based on my personal experience with the item - which
is way more than yours.

Possible? well anything is possible, but very very unlikely.

Wow...you've put a lot of thought into this. What i should have said was that i dont really care If you believe me but seeing as you feel it necessary to call me out, I'll see what I can do.
I'm happy for you that your juice s2's have served you well. Do I call your integrity into question because your experience differs from mine? Do i say that its highly unlikely that you have had great luck with a tool that i have had a less than stellar experience with? No I don't.
I have also had great experiences with many leatherman tools and will for
many years to come. I just happen to have had 2 odd similar experiences with the same model. Maybe I should buy a lottery ticket?
Anyways, I'm sorry I don't have the first s2 that this happened to to show you because, as stated, it was exchanged for a new one. In the picture below of.my most recent s2 you will see that the blade has opened a little farther than it should be. The little piece of metal in the picture below it is the piece that keeps the blade from doing what it's doing....going past the parallel of the handle. You'll also notice that the tool hardly has a scratch on it, indicating
very little use. See? Not everybody says things on the Internet just to say something........some people are actually honest about their experiences....
IMG-20111103-00099.jpg
 

IndyGarage

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I didn't go so far as to call you a liar and say it is impossible, but I have to say that is very strange, and if it happened to you twice you must be ready to win the lottery.

That is in-fact, a picture of broken blade locking tang. And if it breaks, the blade does exactly that, and the tool is useless.

I've purchased probably 20 of them over the years - 3 for me and the rest for family and coworkers. I've not heard of anybody having this problem.

We'll leave it at that.
 

strnjss

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I'm somewhat multi-tool obsessed and own a whole bunch of different models. I have to say my CS4 is probably my least favorite of my Leathermans.

I know that some people love it, but I've just had too many issues with it.

First of all, I'm not a fan of the design at all. I find the painted scales ridiculous. They scratch so easily. Not only that, but one of my scales is loose! Now I'm all for using tools (not collecting them), and I don't mind if a tool scratches and stuff. But you have to wonder what the designer of this tool was thinking making a pocket-carry tool (not sheath carry) that scratches so readily.

The screwdriver bits are impossibly tight to open. I even had to send it back once for them to try and loosen it. They re-riveted it looser, but it still is impossible, even after oiling and using my Wave to open and close it dozens of times to try and break it in.

The design where you have to open the awl just to open another tool is not well thought out.

the saw blade doesn't seat properly when you close it, you have to guide it in.

the scissors are not sharp at all, and are basically suitable for paper alone.

And even without these issues, I just don't really like it that much.

I do like the sharpness of the blade. It hasn't dulled even though I've cut a lot of those plastic clamshell things with it.

I like the small pliers. They seem to be very well done.

I wish they would redesign it with a better tool layout, screws instead of rivets like my Wave and Surge (so the tools can be loosened or tightened to taste), all stainless construction like my other LM's, instead of those awful colored scales, and nice sharp strong scissors.
 
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porphyre

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I'm somewhat multi-tool obsessed and own a whole bunch of different models. I have to say my CS4 is probably my least favorite of my Leathermans.

I know that some people love it, but I've just had too many issues with it.

First of all, I'm not a fan of the design at all. I find the painted scales ridiculous. They scratch so easily. Not only that, but one of my scales is loose! Now I'm all for using tools (not collecting them), and I don't mind if a tool scratches and stuff. But you have to wonder what the designer of this tool was thinking making a pocket-carry tool (not sheath carry) that scratches so readily.

The screwdriver bits are impossibly tight to open. I even had to send it back once for them to try and loosen it. They re-riveted it looser, but it still is impossible, even after oiling and using my Wave to open and close it dozens of times to try and break it in.

The design where you have to open the awl just to open another tool is not well thought out.

the saw blade doesn't seat properly when you close it, you have to guide it in.

the scissors are not sharp at all, and are basically suitable for paper alone.

And even without these issues, I just don't really like it that much.

I do like the sharpness of the blade. It hasn't dulled even though I've cut a lot of those plastic clamshell things with it.

I like the small pliers. They seem to be very well done.

I wish they would redesign it with a better tool layout, screws instead of rivets like my Wave and Surge (so the tools can be loosened or tightened to taste), all stainless construction like my other LM's, instead of those awful colored scales, and nice sharp strong scissors.

Hey, that's some useful feedback!

Luckily, I don't think any of those negatives will effect me, except perhaps the tight screwdrivers. That could be a problem.

I'm not really sure what you mean by "having" to guide the saw back in. I'm a knife guy, so the tools are always guided back in anyway... maybe multitools are different?

Anyway, the thing is cheap enough that if I don't like it, I'll just trash it. It's not a $120 Victorinox SwissTool. :D
 

Outlawmws

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I have to comment on some of the observations that have been made. (Even though I see porphyre appears to have made his decision)

At the top of the list is pointing out the entire Leather man tool line is a mass produced product, and subject to day to day variances in tolerances. You are going to have a percentage that don't meet expectations for quality no matter how good the company is. The real question is how high that percentage gets, and how does the company respond to the issues when made aware of them. I've not had to communicate with Leatherman personally, but from the couple of responses people have made here, they appear to be pretty responsive.

First off for some of the comments:, unless they have changed the design a little, the scales (on mine) are not painted; they are anodized. I've been carrying mine in my fanny pack and sometimes my pocket for years, and have yet to scratch it. Anodize is usually pretty durable, but not infallible. (witness my AAA LED flashlight where after near 10 years, most of it has worn off)

Scissors: The pair on mine have been perfectly adequate, very sharp, and I have had no issues using them. In fact, they have been superior to any I've use on any Swiss army knife Ive had occasion to use. Just to be sure, I cut a number of materials just now, including paper, thread, brass shim stock, and even some corrugated cardboard. (admittedly the last was a bit tough, but it did the job.)

I will note that since scissors are a shearing tool, unless the blades are perfectly adjusted for the material at hand it is also up to he operator to use them so the blades are firmly shearing without any gap. Thin materials can often slip between the blades of any shearing device, and a little side pressure usually will prevent this from happening. This is true of everything from heavy tin snips, aviation snips, grass shears, pinking shears household scissors, and yes, even he little scissors on pocket tools. Hell, I've seen stomp shears with a little too much wear fold instead of cut thin sheet metal... That being said. if the rivet on the scissors is loose, you will have more trouble with them.

As to the saw blade having to be guided in, I can't recall a saw blade on a folding knife that didn't require some guidance, as the teeth are cut is such a way that unless a huge gap is left, any deflection will cause them to catch.

The comments on the blade/pliers/whatever being to small; no one ever claimed this tool was perfect for every job. If it's too small, you chose the wrong tool. This is a fairly small tool and not intended for heavy industrial use. Chose the right tool for the job at hand. If I am using a tool incompatible for a job, is that the tool's fault, or mine as the chooser of the tool? ( I see this is as no different than someone using a ratchet or crescent wrench for a hammer...)

As to the screwdrivers being difficult to pull out, there is a thumb nail tab for each one to get it started, and some things like that don't work well for everyone. I've had some knife blades that the nail cuts were not really properly accessible, but for me, the ones on the 4 screwdriver blades on my CS4 weren't one of them.

Bottom line is that the complaints that it is too small,, too large or the tools on it are inadequately sized for a given job is not a factor for the tool itself, but the selection of the tool for the job. All multi tools are compromises and that has to be factored by the user.

For some the CS4 is a completely adequate tool, for others something else will be better. fit the tool to your personal application. What matters here is how well it will fit for porphyre's use.
 

strnjss

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Hey, that's some useful feedback!

Luckily, I don't think any of those negatives will effect me, except perhaps the tight screwdrivers. That could be a problem.

I'm not really sure what you mean by "having" to guide the saw back in. I'm a knife guy, so the tools are always guided back in anyway... maybe multitools are different?

Anyway, the thing is cheap enough that if I don't like it, I'll just trash it. It's not a $120 Victorinox SwissTool. :D

what I mean by guided back in is if I just close the saw blade, it doesn't close straight in on mine. It will come to a rest at an angle and not allow me to then close the awl (which you have to open to open or close the saw blade by the way). I have to close it so that it rests straight how it should be.

I don't know if this is just mine or not, but it just adds to my issues with it.

I'm sure the bits opening thing is random too. I just got a bad one I guess. I have noticed All my Leatherman's are pretty tight when you first get them, but they break in pretty well. My Juice just doesn't.
But like I said, a lot of people seem to love the Juice line, so you might like it too.
 

rebelram

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I had forgotten about the saw needing to be guided in and the screwdriver blades being tight and difficult to open. Again it's been quite some time since I have used my CS4. It basically rides in my glove box of my truck now as a spare.

I do agree that all multi tools are basically a compromise. For me I was looking for a compromise that would be smaller and lighter than my full size gerber. I thought the CS4 was going to fill that role for me. The problem was, I wanted the functionality and strength of the gerber in a smaller lighter package. There may be other multi tools out there now that I would like better and possibly even made of better materials such as titanium or tungsten. But I am perfectly happy with a SAK now. And like I said, pliers was pretty much the only functionality I was missing and being how I am always usually no more than a few feet away from a good pair of pliers, I consider it an acceptable trade off. I would carry pliers in a pouch on my belt, but I already have enough items on my belt as it is.
 

brett09

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I had a juice cs4 and although it was nice, I just didn't use it much. Sold it on ebay.
 
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