Craftsman C3 cordless tools - opinions?

[Stuey]

Someone emailed in asking a couple of Q's about what I thought about Craftsman's C3 19.2v cordless tools.

I said that:

• the line is here to stay
• the tools are often no-frills designs (which can be good or bad)
• they're a good value for DIYers

When shopping for new cordless power tools for personal use, I don't really look at the C3 line at all these days. They're a bit simpler and no-frills than I typically like.

What do you guys think about these tools?

Here is my longer Craftsman C3 19.2V opinions post on TG if you're interested.

 

[jjjrmx5]

I got half thru a stair railing rebuild last weekend with help from a buddy who had teh cordless C3 setupup.

Used the small cirular saw, sawzall and cordless drill. His to-go cordless tools used professionally are Hitachi and Makita, but keeps the c'man set at home.

Circular saw pulled lot of battery juice so we had to do a battery charge halfway thru and he had an older battery **** out that needed replacement by indicating "faulty battery" on the charger.

I personally have no interest in the any of the craftsman cordless line as I have no idea who makes them and their tool warranty and battery warranty are very minimal on a tool I find mid to lower range in a lot of cases.

Whether you'll be able to find batteries that fit in the ongoing years is another problem as my batteries for my Bosch and Makita tools are easy to find and plentiful even for the older tools.

I do keep a few Craftsman corded tools around that have held up fine (but not used daily or professionally) but shopping around for deals can net you a better tools for similar prices of the C'Man in my opinion.

 

[Test Tech]

The C3 line is one of the very few things craftsman makes that is ok. Also look at the battery maintainer/charger for C3, it can charge up to 4 batteries at once.

 

[gtivr4]

I have:
2 3/8 Drills
3/8 Impact Driver
1/2 Impact Wrench
7" Circular Saw
Sawzall
Line Trimmer
Flashlight
Vacuum

Overall I like most of the components, and since I am bought in, getting something else doesn't really make sense. The circ saw does draw a LOT of juice, so extra batteries are always in need. I use the impact driver the most, and its been awesome despite the abuse. The Impact Wrench does all of my tire changing without any problems, although rusty bolts aren't its friend. The vacuum ***** (in that it doesn't really ****) and the flashlight is just plain clunky, but bright.

That being said, I don't really have much other experience with a wide range other than Ryobi, which I think the C3 is slightly better than.

 

[Brimaster]

I presently have I have 3/8 Drills (Regular and 90 degree), Light and Sawzall.

I have went through 3 batteries so far but other then that they have worked great for what I do but I can't speak to how they would hold up on a daily basis.

 

[porphyre]

The one question I'd like answered is - other than weight - what is the advantage of a Lithium battery pack over NiCad?

I've seen many (MANY) people say "The NiCads are junk! I couldn't do *** but I put a Lithium battery in and the tool zipped right through it!"

Guys, 19.2v is 19.2v. What's the deal?

 

[Stuey]

The one question I'd like answered is - other than weight - what is the advantage of a Lithium battery pack over NiCad?

I've seen many (MANY) people say "The NiCads are junk! I couldn't do *** but I put a Lithium battery in and the tool zipped right through it!"

Guys, 19.2v is 19.2v. What's the deal?

As you mentioned, li-ion vs. NiCd offer greater energy density and thus more compact and lighter batteries. But for what I've seen, self-discharge rate is a lot slower, meaning that if you whip out a tool after not using it for 2 months, the batteries are still charged. Plus recharge rates are lower, and Li-ion batteries are usually capable of outputting greater current.

Plus, smaller batteries means manufacturers can design smaller tools with the same power while still providing great balance.

Another thing is that manufacturers are not funneling any research funds into NiCd batteries. R&D focuses on Li-ion batteries, resulting in even more of a performance gap.

NiCd is more inexpensive to produce. Li-ion is better on every other level. Modern Li-ion cells can even handle cold environments with greater ease than before, about matching NiCd's resilience.

 

[TexasSpartan]

First, a little bit of my background....

Home based DIY'er, with a penchant for spending way too much money on tools.... I have a Nissan Titan that I do most of the work on myself, and an 83 CJ7 that I do 99% of the work on myself (with help from friends.) I also do quite a bit of tinkering around the house... hanging towel rods/pictures/etc. And have some bigger projects coming up.

I had been looking for a cordless impact wrench... mainly for convenience sake. I have a dewalt compressor (just one of the $300 home depot jobbies,) but when all I'm doing is popping wheels off to do brakes or something, it's a pain in the *** to wheel it out, plug it in, run the hose, etc. etc. so I was looking for a quick and easy cordless impact to make life easier.

A couple months ago, when the C3 went on sale for like $105 or so, I picked it up, in addition to the $90 drill that came with the Li-Ion battery and charger (mainly for the battery.)

So, for $200(ish), I've got the drill, the 1/2" impact wrench, 2 ni-cads, one ni-cad charger, 1 li-ion, and one mixed chem charger. I've also picked up the job light, as well as the tire inflator.

Sure, these aren't the high end tools some may be looking for, but they've been perfect for what I've needed them for. I also have the M12 Drill, impact driver, and voltmeter, as well as a Dewalt 18v drill that I picked up on some screaming deal. But to be honest, the C3 set has become my "go to." The drill's got every bit of power I need (I'm currently hanging Gladiator storage in the garage, and it's been my go to tool there.) And the impact popped lugs no problem. The inflator is a great tool to have in the tool box when out off roading in the CJ, and the job light is just useful in general when under the truck.

The M12 is great from a compact standpoint (I keep it all in one little bag that I'll grab when going to help out at someones house or something,) and the Dewalt is great for big jobs.... but at the end of the day, the design of the C3 system, for my use case, is pretty spot on. Some of the other things I plan on picking up include the leaf blower (way easier to carry on the roof to blow out gutters then the gas one) and the circ saw (although, may look for an 18v bare tool deWalt for that instead.)

My personal opinion is that, as long as Sears continues to support the C3 line, it's a pretty spot on product line for the home diy'er/tinkerer.

 

[matty d]

I have:

C3 Trimmer,
C3 Blower,
C3 small shop vac
C3 inflator.

Of the 4 C3 things I own, I like the Trimmer and Inflator the best, and I think they rival or are better than most on the market. The blower and vaccum eat my NiCads up.

I was thinking HARD about getting Li C3 batteries. I decided not to....user reviews for NiCad and Li are both spotty. However, I have not had any problems with my NiCad and it is 1/3 less money than Li. They say Li also has a shorter life span, so I felt it wasnt justified shelling out the bucks. Once I got another NiCad, the compulsion to want to get Li was gone. Im happy with my C3s overall and I hope they are here to stay no matter what happens to Sears or Craftsman in the retail environment.

 

[tpolley]

i have the 1/2 inch drill, the big one. not the hammer drill. i have zero complaints about it

i have the reciprocating saw, the older bigger one. i also have zero complaints about it

i have the jig saw or saber saw or whatever. i bought it recon'd at the sears outlet. i have zero complaints about it.

i have the older weaker 900inlb 1/4 impact, i mostly use it for driving screws for which its fantastic. i've put a 1/4 square adapter and tried removing small bolts, its okay but its pretty weak.

i have the 5 1/4 trim saw, it works great untill the battery craps out. it's a battery hog

i have the 1/2 inch impact, its great for removing lug nuts. haven't done much else with it.

i have 3 nicad batteries and one FULL SIZE lithium battery (they make a half size). as far as weight, the tools are so freaking heavy the weight diference is not noticable. i haven't done a side by side stamina test. the biggest difference i've noticed between the nicad and the lithium is that the lithium battery does not get hot therefore can be imediately charged after a heavy use. the nicads get really hot, say if you're cutting 2x4's with the trim saw. there is a thermistor in the battery. if you try to charge it when its hot it will say "defective battery" someone mentioned in an earlier post that they had a battery **** out. you might try charging it again now that its cooled down. the lithiums don't have this problem.

having said all that, i'm still waiting for someone who's had their c3 batteries rebuilt at batteries plus. i think it might cost the same as a new battery but i think they use better cells therefore you'd have more power. i think because the price is the same people just say "if its the same price i'd rather have a new battery". they don't think that the new cells might be better quality than what craftsman uses.

 

[Rolling_Thunder]

I have a 3/8' Drill, a 3/8" right angle drill, a 1/4" impact a 1/2 inch drill and 2 lights and love them all. I have 6 of the Ni-Cad batteries and 2 chargers. The 1/4" impact is awesome and gets used the most. The 1/2 impact has plenty of power and has done all I've required of it.

 

[Danglerb]

If not the C3 1/2" impact, then what?

Right now I don't see anything that offers the level of performance at close to the price of the $110 shipped with tax kit of 1/2" impact, two nicad packs and a nicad only charger.

C3 I "think" is here for the long haul, it fits consumer needs too well. If it was dropped tomorrow, there is a huge amount of product around so rebuilding packs should be easy, and after a few years I would expect cheap Chinese packs to show up on ebay.

19.2v isn't 19.2 volts. Fresh pack, just off the charger might show 19.2v for the first few seconds of use, then it drops to about 18v and slowly declines. Under high current loads, different types and qualities of cells can show much lower voltages. Similar to a 12v car battery fully charged is 13+v, drops quickly to middle 12v in use without charging, and drops a bunch more during cranking.

Good news is that battery tech is constantly improving, and rebuilding old packs with the newest and best cells is a growing industry.

 

[tpolley]

19.2v isn't 19.2 volts. Fresh pack, just off the charger might show 19.2v for the first few seconds of use, then it drops to about 18v and slowly declines. Under high current loads, different types and qualities of cells can show much lower voltages. Similar to a 12v car battery fully charged is 13+v, drops quickly to middle 12v in use without charging, and drops a bunch more during cranking.

actually my packs show over 20v off the charger. 19.2/1.2=16 individual cells.

18/1.2=15 individual cells.

you're likely not going to notice a difference with that extra cell.

when you have them rebuilt at batteries plus they charger you per cell.

i wish i still had the email. i contacted craftsman a few years ago. they informed me tha the full size lithium ion battery was rated at 3ah, the small one was something like 1.8ah and the nicads were also 1.8ah. i can't remember the exact numbers but i'm pretty sure thats acurate. i've used both the lithium and the nicads, i don't believe the lithiums have twice the capacity. at least they don't last twice as long.

other manfacturers use higher capacity cells, thats why dewalt, milwaukee and the like can get more power out of 18v. imagine poking a 1/4 inch hole in a 55 gallon drum vs poking a 1/4 inch hole in a 30 gallon drum, you'll get the same flow from both but the 55 gallon will flow longer than the 30 gallon. i think dewalts 18v batteries are rated at 3ah. with craftsman, the extra 1.2v is a marketing gimmick because they use lower capacity cells. thats why i keep asking people to have thier craftsman batteries rebuilt because i suspect batteries plus uses the same capacity cells that the big brands use, so its quite possible that a rebuilt craftsman nicad battery would be rated at 3ah just like the big brands.

i don't know if its acurate but dewalt advertises that their chargers are also "conditioners" and that my contribute to why their batteries tend to last longer than craftsman. that wouldn't effect short term performance tho. for all i know the bigger brands use more efficient motors and electronics that draw less current.

something else i believe is that people who buy craftsman cordless power tools don't use them every day like people who buy dewalt or milwaukee. something that will kill a nicad battery is to let it sit for long periods not being used or being alowed to discharge and sit dead for weeks or months at a time. i'm sure that contributes to alot of dead craftsman batteries. someone said in another post that people who use cordless power tools occasionaly don't get as much value as those who use them every day. i believe that. i make a habbit of charging my batteries once a month wether i use them or not. and i don't let them sit on the charger for more than a couple days. i think that kills them too. i've taken batteries off the charger after a few days and even tho the charge light was green indicating a full charge, the battery was still pretty warm. that tells me there's something going on. the charger isn't shutting off completely or whatever.

 

[porphyre]

Random data point.

I just checked my two NiCad 19.2 batteries. Can't remember when each of them were last charged.

One read 19.7v
Other was 20.6v

I put the 19.7 on the 1-hr charger and will report back.

 

[BigAl62]

I have a bunch of these tools, I find them useful and I like that they all take the same battery pack. I have the 1/2" impact, 1/4" impact driver, 1/2" drill, angle drill (more useful than I thought when I first bought it), sawzall, florescent work light (graet for under dash work, I don't burn my arms on it), and the trim saw (also more useful then I thought). I also have several Craftsman 14.4V tools that are quite useful (3/8" drill, impact driver and a work light), just wish they could work on the 19.2V battery packs too.

 

[diesel research]

Guys, 19.2v is 19.2v. What's the deal?

What is standard unit of electrical POWER? Watts?
What is a watt? Amp x volt

You are neglecting 50% of the power equation.

Is 2 x 10 the same as 2 x 99? No? Why not? Both have 2!

 

[tpolley]

The one question I'd like answered is - other than weight - what is the advantage of a Lithium battery pack over NiCad?

I've seen many (MANY) people say "The NiCads are junk! I couldn't do *** but I put a Lithium battery in and the tool zipped right through it!"

Guys, 19.2v is 19.2v. What's the deal?

What is standard unit of electrical POWER? Watts?
What is a watt? Amp x volt

You are neglecting 50% of the power equation.

Is 2 x 10 the same as 2 x 99? No? Why not? Both have 2!

the point of the more powerfull lithium batteries is to make the tools last longer between charges. not to give the tool more power. i think anyone that says "I couldn't do *** but I put a Lithium battery in and the tool zipped right through it" was using a dead nicad battery.

 

[porphyre]

What is standard unit of electrical POWER? Watts?
What is a watt? Amp x volt

You are neglecting 50% of the power equation.

Is 2 x 10 the same as 2 x 99? No? Why not? Both have 2!

the point of the more powerfull lithium batteries is to make the tools last longer between charges. not to give the tool more power. i think anyone that says "I couldn't do *** but I put a Lithium battery in and the tool zipped right through it" was using a dead nicad battery.

Yeah, so that's basically my question... Is the Li-ion actually more powerful than the NiCad? I'm not advocating anything, I'm trying to find answers.

BTW - Fresh off the charger with the little green "Fully Charged" light on, my C3 19.2v NiCad battery (bought May of this year) shows 22.3 volts.

 

[kythri]

That being said, I don't really have much other experience with a wide range other than Ryobi, which I think the C3 is slightly better than.

Only difference is the color and an extra cell in the battery pack.

There may be a tool under either brand that isn't available in the other, but, save for the color/casing, they're identical.

That said:

My opinion is that they're great tools.

On a side note, I really wish brands would stop being stupid about proprietary battery pack interfaces, and embrace a common battery, so that we could mix-and-match for the perfect set.

 

[fitz11]

Has anyone actually had a nicad pack rebuilt?

 

[NJHandyGuy]

Has anyone actually had a nicad pack rebuilt?

yep and i'll never do it again it's shelf life was 1/2 the stardand of buying a new one and cost ALMOST AS MUCH

 

[Stuey]

Yeah, so that's basically my question... Is the Li-ion actually more powerful than the NiCad? I'm not advocating anything, I'm trying to find answers.

BTW - Fresh off the charger with the little green "Fully Charged" light on, my C3 19.2v NiCad battery (bought May of this year) shows 22.3 volts.

Off the charger voltages don't mean much. That's why 10.8V is now called 12V Max and 18V is called 20V Max.

imho, two potential reasons Craftsman offers 19.2V tools is because 1) Americans like higher numbers. A lot of DIYers will see 19.2V and automatically assume it's better than an 18V tool. Also, a little extra voltage to the motors means a little extra speed and power.

 

[Ghostrider]

The c3 tools are actually not bad but I wish they never would have discontinued the 20 volt lion stuff they are far better IMHO.

 

[tpolley]

i'm supprised to hear the rebuilt battery didn't last as long as the factory craftsman cells. i have a freind that has had, either national tire and battery or batteries plus rebuild his milwaukee batteries twice and he hasn't complained.

 

[Danglerb]

How good a rebuilt pack is depends almost entirely on the cells used. Battery technology IS improving, better nicads are available now than say even six months ago, but ALL kinds of grades and ages are available to rebuilders. Just like most things, you need to find somebody good at rebuilding the packs that does a LOT of business so they have the latest and freshest cells.

Power = volts x amps. Amps = volts/resistance.

So

Power = (volts x volts)/resistance. Resistance doesn't change much, so in comparing power in the same device, like an impact wrench, we can ignore it. 12v vs 10v, the 12v is going to have 44% more power.

The voltage under load REALLY matters for power output.

 

[redman43]

I've got the 1/2 drill, 3/8 right angle drill, 1/2 impact wrench, 1/4 impact driver, and 7 1/4 circular saw. 4 ni-cad batteries and two single chargers. there are always two batteries on the chargers.

Just used the impact wrench for some suspension work on my 2002 focus a few weeks ago. No issues whatsoever.
Used the 1/2 drill, 1/4 impact driver, and circular saw to build my garage cabinets over the last 10 months. No issues whatsoever.

I'm incredibly happy with them. I just need to get some smaller tools (leaning towards Milwaukee M12) for confined spaces.

 

[allinon72]

I have the C3 impact driver, drill, and LED light with lithium batteries. No problems with any of them. About to buy the jigsaw and reciprocating saw.

 

[Trey T]

I suggest staying away from Ni-Cad batteries and stick with Li-Ion as the maintenance is much easier.

Dewalt 20v (it's not really 20v perse, just a marketing ploy) has the best Lithium battery right now on the market called Li-Fe-PO4 and its maintenance is much easier than the regular Lithium-Ion we all know about.

Here is the ranking of battery from best to worst for high current output:

1. Lithium Ion Iron Phosphate (nano technology)
2. Lithium Ion Polymer
3. Lithium Ion Cobalt (generally recognized as Li-Ion, standard on most cordless tools)
4. Nickle Metal Hydride
5. Nickle Cadmium

 

[Danglerb]

I suggest staying away from Ni-Cad batteries and stick with Li-Ion as the maintenance is much easier.

I see your point, but its double the price to add a C3 lithium battery to the C3 nicad kit.

Craftsman C3 19.2-Volt Lithium-Ion Battery Pack with Charger 25928 $119.99

Sears bundles the two nicads and charger for less than $20 more than the bare tool when on sale, and a $200 total price impact is a different animal than a $110 total price impact.

We already "know" the best is $500 off a tool truck. What this thread is about is what is good, standard being apparently takes off wheel lugs, and the best value. C3 1/2 impact on sale for $110 is looking pretty good, and so far nobody has suggested much in the way of a real alternative.

A few years back it looked like nicad was a dead end, nihm has clear benefits, and Li ion even more, but the fact is nicad isn't dying, its improved and dominates all of the low end products like solar lighting. Right now I think nicad is still a viable entry level option. Two or three years down the line if the packs go bad, consider upgrading to better cells and chargers, but I'm not sure if its even practical then.

 

[countryraised]

I've had my kit for 9 years,
1/2" drill, sawzall, light, and reciprocating saw. replaced some guides and connectors in the sawzall, and have only killed 2 batteries so far (1 just died @9 yrs old)
Also have a 2nd 1/2 drill and a 3/8" right angle drill,
I use mine a lot on the farm and house, and have been looking at getting the 1/2" impact. my C'man sawzall went through bout 3 times the abuse my dad's corded dewalt did before needing repairs.

 

[TWX]

I've had the "C3" stuff before they called it "C3", just "19.2V". I've replaced batteries once.

My original kit has a cloth bag, one NiCd charger, one large drill, one impact driver, one lanternt-type flashlight, one sawzall, and one circular saw. It also had two NiCd batteries. I also bought another drill that was on sale, as sometimes someone is working with me and having two drills is more convenient.

After several years the original NiCd batteries started having problems. I bought one LiIon with multi-chem charger, but I think that those batteries are overpriced. It's a nice battery, very light weight and runs strong for longer than the NiCd, but when it's too low it completely stops without warning, which can get kind of irritating. I also bought three more NiCd batteries, which are the ones I use the most. With four batteries and two chargers I don't often run out of usable battery while working.

My wife essentially co-opted the flashlight, it usually stays in the house with the LiIon battery as it's lighter weight that way.

I wish they made a belt sander in this setup, even if it took two batteries to run.


Dad and I built a lean-to shed with these tools without any problems with the tools. I routinely cut stuff with the circular saw (7') and sawzall without problems. For a homeowner/hobbyist they're great! For a professional they're probably too light-duty, but I'm not a professional, and my tools get used for a couple hours a day when used, normally, and on occasion when I have pushed them to several hours straight they're fine.

 

[dodge610]

I have the C3 system with a lot of the attachments also picked up the hedge trimmer attachment sure beats draggin 100 feet of ext. cord around. Also picked up the Quad battery charger so I would always have a fresh charged battery. I was told that the chargers that come with the C3 system are known to over charge the battery and ruin it dont know how true it is but love the quad service center.

 

[redman43]

I have the C3 system with a lot of the attachments also picked up the hedge trimmer attachment sure beats draggin 100 feet of ext. cord around. Also picked up the Quad battery charger so I would always have a fresh charged battery. I was told that the chargers that come with the C3 system are known to over charge the battery and ruin it dont know how true it is but love the quad service center.

I haven't experienced this. I have two chargers. One is maybe a year old, the other is four or five years old. There is always one battery plugged in at all times to each charger. I actually rarely get to use the tools, so there have been occasions where a battery could be sitting there for months at a time. I haven't noticed a significant decline in run time or performance, aside from what I would expect from the age of the batteries.

 

[dodge610]

I haven't experienced this. I have two chargers. One is maybe a year old, the other is four or five years old. There is always one battery plugged in at all times to each charger. I actually rarely get to use the tools, so there have been occasions where a battery could be sitting there for months at a time. I haven't noticed a significant decline in run time or performance, aside from what I would expect from the age of the batteries.

Like I said the kid at sears was the one that said something to me. Didnt know if he was tryin to push the quad charger or what I still have my single charger dont think I have ever used it still new. Saw the quad charger right after i got the drill so I bought one.

 

[hllon4whls]

I have these C3 tools with no complaints.

1/2 drill - larger one no hammer
Sawsall same age as drill
Trim saw/circular saw
Angle drill - came with circular saw
rapid charger and 2 nicad batteries from the original set
Brand new Lithium shorty pack and charger (thanks dad).

My dad uses these on the job and he gets a lot of use out of them. Battery packs are starting to show their age with run rates and a few that wont charge. He bought two of the lithium shorty batteries and picked me up one as a belated bday gift.

The shorty lithium batteries and charger are on sale right now for $53.99 (I think he got them for $50.99 each).

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00931882000P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1

I use mine about every other weekend for some project. I've killed one of the two Nicads due to infrequent use and probably overcharging. I'm eyeing the 1/2 impact. I'll pick it up when it goes on sale. I'm thinking of rebuilding one battery packs with some of these.

http://www.google.com/products/cata...=X&ei=PnzATtTPN9O1tgebuLy5Bg&ved=0CIEBEPMCMAA

If the link doesnt work its a tenergy 5000mah sub c with tabs. It will cost around $60 to rebuild a battery pack, but these are good quality and high capacity cells. Not 100% sure if the craftsman charger will charge them properly.

One note. Off the charger a nicad has 20+ volts. Off the charger a Lithium has 19.2 volts. I know that the lithiums are a smarter technology.

Has anyone charged the lithiums on an older charger? Lithiums need a controller to prevent over discharge rates and to prevent over charge rates and overcharging. Not sure if the smarts are in the battery or the charger or 1/2-1/2. When lithiums go, they can vent with a hot flame (metal burning) not pleasant, I am sure.

 

[hllon4whls]

I really used my new LI-ION battery for the first time this weekend. I was very pleased overall with the performance of the drill. When fully charged, it reads right at 19.X volts. I use mainly the drill/driver (the bigger one) and the trim saw this weekend. The drill seemed to have plenty of power for longer (my Nicads were really really bad) and I shortened an interior door with the trim saw. The first cut was like butter. The second cut made it more than 3/4 of the way and the saw shut off 2-3 times. Third time it would not come on. I had gotten off my mark and was actually cutting at an angle. The battery was pretty warm and for 10 minutes or more the saw would do nothing. The battery showed red indicator when I pressed the status button.
I let the battery cool thoroughly then charged overnight. Back to normal function. Used lightly the next day.
I'm done buying nicads and I dont think I'll bother rebuilding them at this point.

Of course, you can always do this. It makes things slightly less portable, but it still is a battery powered tool.