Lift buying

[Nitsuj]

I had always planned on buying a lift one day. Looking around this site, I see lots of 4 post lifts, and lots of 2 posts. Why is the 4 post so popular? It seems like you can remove wheels more easily and do more work. Plus the 2 post takes up less floor real estate. Is the benefit of the four post just for parking cars 2 deep?

Just curious, not trying to start a lift holy war or anything. ;-)

 

[Jack Olsen]

Four-post lifts allow you to store two cars in one space and are less destructive in their installation. They can be used for working on wheels, brakes and suspension, but there's an extra step involved.

Two-post lists are great for almost all vehicle work, but take up more valuable garage space (on the sides instead of the corners) and are more difficult to use to store two cars.

Both are a lot better than jack stands.

 

[ghnl]

Another major difference is in foundation/floor requirements. A four post sits on a standard concrete floor with no problems (and does not need to be bolted down - many even come with caster kits fo rmobility). A two post needs an extra thick/strong concrete floor and must be bolted down.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Many four post lifts do not have to be bolted down. In fact, some have optional caster kits that allow them to be moved around when they are down, some even with a car on them. Four post lifts can be had with rolling jack pans on them and using something like air bladder jacks, it is quite easy to raise one end or one corner of a car, allowing wheels to be removed, brake work, etc. They make a handy work shelf for tools while you are working. Putting a car on a four post lift is relatively easy, just drive it on and up you go. Four post lifts allow the car to sit naturally for work like exhaust positioning which requires the suspension to be loaded and not hanging down. It is relatively easy to drain oil and transmission fluid with a four post.

Two post lifts allow for easy access to all of the undersides and leave the wheels hanging for suspension and wheel and brake work. Its very easy to change oil and transmission fluid with a two post lift and removal of underside components is quite easy, such as fuel filters, fuel tanks and such. The ramps on four post lifts sometimes get in the way for underside work. Two post lifts must be bolted down, requiring solid concrete floor and no cracks or flaws.

Some work can be just as easily done on either type of lift, other types of work are more difficult or impossible to do on one type of lift or the other.

Someone commented recently that after six months of owning a two post lift, you will be wishing for a four post, as its a hassle to pull the car in centered and just the right place for balance on a two post lift, as a four post, you just drive it on and if its a little off, it really doesn't matter.

I own a two post lift, and I'm starting to agree, a four post would be nice to have.....

Charles

 

[ket-tek]

This has been hashed over many many times. They both have pros and cons neither is perfect for all auto work to be done on. I could go on about the specific reasons I like one or the other them but many others and myself have quite a few times in other threads on here... It took me like 3 years from the time I decided I was gonna buy a lift for sure and started researching to the point when I actually pulled the trigger mainly because I couldn't make up my mind.. Glad I waited and didn't buy the first couple that I looked at way back then, I would have been disappointed..

It seems GJ really needs a dedicated Lift section of the forum, I know it's been talked about before and deemed not worthy but I think it would be very beneficial for everyone to be able to keep the info organized better as it seems a new lift topic comes up almost every day now.

 

[Steves32]

I've had a 2 post & currently have a 4 post Bend Pak.
I prefer the 4 post w/ the rolling air/hydraulic scissor jack.
Much more secure to leave a car up for extended periods.
When I had the 2 post, I would never leave a vehicle up for extended time in fear of what could happen during an earthquake.

A perfect garage would have both.

 

[MustangRick]

I did some work in a shop that had 2 post lifts. I have to say that they make the car way more accessible but they can be a real pain to line up. If you have to take a gas tank out of a suburban, it is a little scary with out some type of screw jack to keep it from bouncing. I also had a heck of a time getting a newer F150 up securely, the frame was not parralel and took for ever to get it in just the right spot to get the rear arms under a good spot. If I had a 4 post, it would have taken a minute not 30. Plus, I dinged a few doors getting in and out of the cars because they were too cheap to put foam on the rails.

 

[saabman]

I am a fortunate to have a 2 post and a 4 post lift (both Bendpak). I also have a rolling jack for the 4 post lift.

- Both can be used for car storage, although the vehicle springs droop on a 2 post lift. On a 4 post the car rest on it suspension so there is no concern about long term storage.

- It is faster to load a car on the 4 post lift UNTIL you gain experience with a 2 post lift. I work on my own cars, so I know just where to pull them in on the 2 post lift.

- Wheel and brake work is easier on a 2 post (especially if you dont have a rolling jack)

- I find I hit my head (or almost hit it) more on the 4 post (when rasied) than on the 2 post.

- When lowered, a 4 post takes more floor space than a 2 post.

- A 4 post has a fixed width and fixed length. Both need to be sized based on the length/width of vehicles you will be working on and the constraints of your garage. For example, my small and mid size sports cars fit fine on the 4 post but my 1/2 ton truck does not (this was not a surprize, I sized the 4 post for my cars). I can however lift my truck on the 2 post.

- Oil change is typically easy on either lift.

- Some suspension points are not easily accessed on a 4 post (blocked by the ramps).

- I feel 'safe' under either lift, but some folks feel safer under a 4 post.

Well thats what comes to mind, good luck.

 

[dirttracker18]

No lift yet but I have been considering my options for some time. It actually looks like within the next year I will finally have one.

After working in the industry before my current career choice I have experience on both. My decision is made and I will be going with the 4 post.

Reasoning:

I have in floor heat and did not prep for a 2 post. The floor is solid enough but I do not want to take a chance of hitting a line when drilling.

I prefer the safety of the 4 post. Not that a 2 post is not safe, but I know that others will want to use my lift. There are a SMALL number of people I will trust to use it. That being said the easy drive on and off of a 4 post is much safer.

When I was wrenching for a living there were times when I had to crank really hard to loosen up a fastener and I could feel the vehicle moving on the lift. I never had one come off but I still did not like the feeling.

There is nothing I cannot do with a 4 post that I could do with a 2 post (sometimes requires a little creativity). The same cannot be said the other way around.

The clincher for me was being able to get the caster kit. I want to move the lift into the corner when not in use and use it as an aid to get heavier items onto my pallet racks. My shop is a nice size but there are times when I need all the room in the center.

Ultimately if I had the choice I would have one of each. However, I will feel lucky to have the one. Obviously my reasoning will not fit everyone but that is how I made my decision.

At almost 40 years old and feeling the effects of a few major injuries, crawling around under a car is getting very uncomfortable. I save our family a lot of money by doing 95% of the work on our vehicles. That is the argument I made tothe wife and she agreed. The saving has started.

 

[brownbagg]

one bad thing about the two post, you have to get on your knee to place the arm. it get bad when you get old or fat

 

[rsa]

one bad thing about the two post, you have to get on your knee to place the arm. it get bad when you get old or fat

Or both.

I know the OP didn't mention a third choice, but there's also the flush scissors lift. Example: Forum member Paul Bird's: picture. It has its own advantages and disadvantages, but I like them for detailing, putting a car on dollies quickly (to move into the corner in a small garage), and the open floor.

 

[LAROKE]

The Bear single post lift meets all my requirements and I'll probably get one next year.

 

[stingry]

Two other uses for a four post:

I made filler sections for my 4 post to fill the space between the ramps, great for working on lawn mowers, four wheelers, etc.

Makes a great buffet table for those garage parties!!


Cheers
Steve

 

[dirttracker18]

one bad thing about the two post, you have to get on your knee to place the arm. it get bad when you get old or fat

Yep, forgot to mention that.

A two post means I still have to crawl around to get the vehicle set up for lift where as I can just drive onto a 4 post.

 

[jhelrey]

4 Posts do make a great table for lots of good eats

 

[NXGTS]

I recently installed a four post Bendpak lift. I couldn't wait to get it and it is awsome but it does take up an enormous amount of floor space. The back half of my garage was purpose built for the lift. I'm glad it was because the lift takes up the vast majority of the back half of the shop. I wouldn't take back the decision. I have worked under 2 posts and I just flat out do not feel comfortable under them.

As said in some of the previous posts. There isn't a whole lot you can't do with a 4 post that you can with a 2 post.

 

[Nitsuj]

The 2 post I was looking at was the Max Jax thing where you can unbolt the posts and move them out of the way. Space is at a premium in my shop, so that feature is attractive. I would use it to store one car on so I can park another under it. Although, if I could park about 5 motorcycles on it then park the wife's car under them, that could prove useful.

 

[countryroad82]

I work under a 2 post just about every day, have worked under plenty of both styles and I prefer a 2 post. In my line of work I have used a 2 post plenty of times to lift a car body off the frame. It is so much easier than how I do it at my shop by cribbing a body up little at a time. Set up time takes a little longer, and I reccomend some type of support jack but I like the versatility of a 2 post.

 

[bd8134]

I was undecided on a 4post or 2post when my garage was being built, I had never worked under either. I did a lot of research, this piece helped. http://www.gregsmithequipment.com/Articles.asp?ID=155
I visited a few shops and looked closely at both types.
Taking up more space for the 4post, banging your head, not being able to remove an engine from underneath, maybe changing a clutch and having to mess around with rolling jacks sold it for me.
In the end I bought a 2post Bendpak and could not be more happy. Positioning the car is not really a problem. I bought a $5 ball on the end of a string from one of the lift manu (cant remember which one) and that made life so easy. Line the car up so the windscreen hits the ball in the centre, close the door and the ball retracts.
I may buy a 4 post in the future if I want to store a car, but if you have a choice of 1 lift and you work on cars, 2 post would most likely work out best.
As Jack said, both are a lot better than jack stands.

 

[boosteddsm92]

The 2 post I was looking at was the Max Jax thing where you can unbolt the posts and move them out of the way. Space is at a premium in my shop, so that feature is attractive. I would use it to store one car on so I can park another under it. Although, if I could park about 5 motorcycles on it then park the wife's car under them, that could prove useful.

A Max Jax won't go high enough for that, I believe they only go up 45".

 

[Jack Olsen]

The 2 post I was looking at was the Max Jax thing where you can unbolt the posts and move them out of the way. Space is at a premium in my shop, so that feature is attractive. I would use it to store one car on so I can park another under it. Although, if I could park about 5 motorcycles on it then park the wife's car under them, that could prove useful.

I don't think you can store two cars with the MaxJax. It only raises a car 45", and then has the arms underneath it eating up more vertical space. Maybe a MaxJax owner could measure how much clearance there is underneath it with a car fully lifted.

 

[financer83rs]

I have a two post lift. I have had if for two and have half years. It gets used weekly. I love it. Best thing i ever did garage wise. I did had a bay to my attached garage to accomidate the height requirements. Worked out great!

 

[Air_Cooled_Nut]

...
Taking up more space for the 4post, banging your head, not being able to remove an engine from underneath, maybe changing a clutch and having to mess around with rolling jacks sold it for me...

Dang it. I'm waffling on 2 vs. 4 as well DirtTracker18 made great points but you bring up very important stuff for me: Being able to remove the drivetrain. You see, I deal with classic German metal which means you lift the body to remove the engine/******. A 2-post would be perfect for this task...I don't think it would be possible on a 4-post.

Porsche 914 example:

My VW Squareback and Bus are similar. Drop the engine, lift the ****, pull out the engine.

Looks like my decision has been decided. Thanks for the help

 

[Jack Olsen]

I came up with an out-of-left-field solution, since my only car to lift is also classic German metal...

The table on top of the lift only comes in contact with belly pan. I have access to everything that can be serviced. The engine drops right onto a dolly or lift cart.

My particular lift (it's a hydraulic lift table) doesn't fully belong in this discussion, since it wouldn't work for (just about) anyone else. But it does illustrate why either a two-post or four-post was out of the question for me. The thing I installed takes up no space whatsoever in my tiny garage, and as a bonus requires no work at all in order to raise the car. Where the car parks is where it's correctly positioned -- there are no arms, ramps or blocks to think about. The way I've got it set up, all I have to do is push a button. And when the lift is down, you can't even see it, much less trip over it.

If I had a decent-size garage, I think I'd get a two-post. But I don't have a decent-size garage.

 

[dirttracker18]

Actually, if someone could provide an accurate way to map my in floor pex I would have to put the 2 post back in consideration for the engine dropping capabilities.

 

[mad57]

I have both a 2 and a 4 , i got the 4 post first and though that i would not need a 2 post, well doing my sisters brake line in her santa fe was the problem the line was directly over the 4 post drive tread i simply could not get me head under to see it i had to feel my way, also i have 2 classic convertibles and would never think of lifting one on a 2 post. I did lift a body off a vw dune buggy with my 4 post, its also and extended height one so i got it up above the vw and strapped the body and lifted it from the top up worked great, where theres a creative mind theres a way both have there pros and cons, conviences ect its a matter of space ,$, and physical health all real life factors, god luck in your choice.

 

[saabman]

I have no trouble lifting my miata on a 2 post lift. Granted it is smaller and lighter than a classic convertible, but I suspect most modern convertibles are safe on a two post. Looks at most dealerships, only 2 posts in the service bay.

 

[santagary]

one bad thing about the two post, you have to get on your knee to place the arm. it get bad when you get old or fat

x2 when you're seventy and have an artifical knee and 4th stage arthritis yet you still want to wrench, detail and work on stuff on your ride. 4post for me SOON!

 

[c39er]

As long as you leave the doors unlatched what is the problem lifting convertibles? I lift my chrysler woody convert on a 2 post?

 

[turbodiesel_02]

i prefer a 2 post list because of the versatilty.

 

[abstamaria]

I don't think you can store two cars with the MaxJax. It only raises a car 45", and then has the arms underneath it eating up more vertical space. Maybe a MaxJax owner could measure how much clearance there is underneath it with a car fully lifted.

Yes, I agree. I don't think the MaxJax would be generally suitable for storage. It is a medium or low rise lift intended for garages with low ceilings, and one can't stand below it. The arms themselves aren't the problem, as they are only a 3 or so inches in height and generally support a car near the sill corners, out of the way. The problem is that the lift height is low, and the wheels dangle. Here's the MaxJax at the lower of two lift settungs (although it can stop at any height, there are mechanical safety stops at two heights). I think in general two-posts are more suitable for servicing and less suitable for storage than 4-posts.

Andy

 

[abstamaria]

Jack Olsen's Solution

I came up with an out-of-left-field solution, since my only car to lift is also classic German metal...

By the way, Jack, I've seen that photo of yours many times, but each time I am amazed at the neatness of your installation and how practical you've made it. Your photos (and video) were what encouraged me to install a lift.

Andy

 

[houdni]

i prefer a 2 post list because of the versatilty.

working with both as a career...gonna agree with turbodiesel...

 

[Al Bundy]

Yes, I agree. I don't think the MaxJax would be generally suitable for storage. It is a medium or low rise lift intended for garages with low ceilings, and one can't stand below it. The arms themselves aren't the problem, as they are only a 3 or so inches in height and generally support a car near the sill corners, out of the way. The problem is that the lift height is low, and the wheels dangle. Here's the MaxJax at the lower of two lift settungs (although it can stop at any height, there are mechanical safety stops at two heights). I think in general two-posts are more suitable for servicing and less suitable for storage than 4-posts.

Andy

Is that a garage or an operating room?!

 

[Air_Cooled_Nut]

Jack, yes, I went through most of your build and love the hidden lift. However, I have a tall ceiling so no limit to lift height. Since my shop can hold 6 air-cooled VWs I'm not really in need of additional storage space.

Al, attached picture is for you Not my car, just a fan of classic Italian design.

 

[Joetomass]

for parking 4 post much better but general service 2 much better, and faster, just buy a good lift and you wont have anything to worry about being under it, i have 2 ben person 2 post older lifts 9k and 1 12k mohawk and i would trust my kids under them.

 

[abstamaria]

Aircooled Nut, the recommendations of Joetomass are pretty convincing. Since you have the ceiling height, a good, full-size two-post lift seems ideal for you.

I have a low ceiling, but have some space for posts. As shown in the photo below, there is still good space for work as the posts are not obtrusive. An asymetrical lift will even be better.

That's a nice 914, BTW.

Al, the garage is only a year old, and I did clean up for the photo. I was serivicing the blue car and underestimated the splash oil would make emptying into the drain pan and had the pan too low, creating a big mess shortly after I took that shot.

Best,

Andy

 

[i8tokyo]

Oh WOW. I want the Stratos

 

[Nitsuj]

I came up with an out-of-left-field solution, since my only car to lift is also classic German metal...

The table on top of the lift only comes in contact with belly pan. I have access to everything that can be serviced. The engine drops right onto a dolly or lift cart.

My particular lift (it's a hydraulic lift table) doesn't fully belong in this discussion, since it wouldn't work for (just about) anyone else. But it does illustrate why either a two-post or four-post was out of the question for me. The thing I installed takes up no space whatsoever in my tiny garage, and as a bonus requires no work at all in order to raise the car. Where the car parks is where it's correctly positioned -- there are no arms, ramps or blocks to think about. The way I've got it set up, all I have to do is push a button. And when the lift is down, you can't even see it, much less trip over it.

If I had a decent-size garage, I think I'd get a two-post. But I don't have a decent-size garage.

I love your lift Jack, I only wish it could work for me. Unfortunately, I'd be lifting anything from a C6 vette, to a F150, to a Honda Fit. I need mor versatility.

 

[Al Bundy]

Aircooled Nut, the recommendations of Joetomass are pretty convincing. Since you have the ceiling height, a good, full-size two-post lift seems ideal for you.

I have a low ceiling, but have some space for posts. As shown in the photo below, there is still good space for work as the posts are not obtrusive. An asymetrical lift will even be better.

That's a nice 914, BTW.

Al, the garage is only a year old, and I did clean up for the photo. I was serivicing the blue car and underestimated the splash oil would make emptying into the drain pan and had the pan too low, creating a big mess shortly after I took that shot.

Best,

Andy

If I had a garage that looked like yours, I would never leave.