California has a tire inflator regulation?

[Ray-CA]

Yep just ran into this last week. Pulled into a shop after driving enough to get the tires hot, for something completely unrelated to tires. The "tire guy" started to check the hot tires and had just began to let air out because the pressure was "high" (I had checked the pressure the morning before and it was right at 35psi) when I stopped him. They actually had a waiver form for me to sign if I didn't want them to check the tire pressure.

Ray

 

[garfunkle24]

People can argue whatever they like, but new legislation doesn't typically show it's true validity and worth until much later than adopted. People hate new things and there will always be resistance, whether it's to seat belts, airbags or mandated tire pressure checks.

Imagine if this had been in place when Exploders started tipping over?

In theory, it could boost your economy in the long run by reducing healthcare and insurance costs as well as any fuel savings.

 

[Jeeprz!]

"What are you supposed to do if you only have air and the tires are green cap N2?"

inform the customer, you did your due diligence by checking it and informing them, even if your not required to by some regulations. If they choose not to address the issue(s) at least you know you did the right thing as a professional.

 

[FltEngCPO]

And we wonder why California is going broke....

It's your car, it's your responsibility to keep air in your tires. If they go flat and shred or you get bad gas mileage, then that's what you get for not maintaining your car.

Big brother get out of my life!

 

[GoBlue]

EXACTLY!!!

 

[Lotek]

Maybe you should get your head out of your *** before you start spouting off. You're completely ignorant.

Fixed

I know, I'm feeding the troll

What is it you do for a living again, kid? How many years of experience? What kind of certifications do you hold?

 

[Toolhorder]

What are you supposed to do if you only have air and the tires are green cap N2?

CARB may not be knocking on a lot of doors, but when they knock its with a club.

You just add regular air and then explain to the customer air in the regular air is 78.09% Nitrogen anyway and they need to get over the Nitrogen BS Costco and Sam's club are feeding them.

 

[Toolhorder]

Fixed

I know, I'm feeding the troll

What is it you do for a living again, kid? How many years of experience? What kind of certifications do you hold?

Are you talking to me or stopdroplol? My comment was directed at him not you to begin with.

 

[Jeeprz!]

And we wonder why California is going broke....

It's your car, it's your responsibility to keep air in your tires. If they go flat and shred or you get bad gas mileage, then that's what you get for not maintaining your car.

Big brother get out of my life!

"It's your car, it's your responsibility"

I agree, but knowing that wouldn't make me feel any better to see on the news that someone who didnt shoulder their responsibility because they didnt know\stupid\lazy check their air pressure and they blew a tire and hit a car headon and took out someones family. So I think there are many different ways to look at these situations.

 

[stopdroplol]

Maybe you should get your head out of your *** before you start spouting off. You're completely ignorant of the automotive industry.

I still don't see the ignorance in my statement. But the overall point I was trying to make was there is very little regulatory oversight into auto mechanics and the work they do. If they wanna cry when somebody forces them to do a task they should already be doing in the first place as a mechanic then I couldn't care less. I can probably think of 10+ reasons why a mechanic should check the tire pressure (and condition) of every vehicle he works on, but the one i'm most concerned about is safety. Not just for the driver but the community as well.

 

[FltEngCPO]

"... and they blew a tire and hit a car headon and took out someones family.

That is nothing but an unrealistic straw man argument. Any car can have a horrible accident for any number of reasons and hit another head on killing people in either or both cars.

It's just air, if you can't figure out how to use an air hose at 7-11, just hand in your keys and walk cause you can't fix stupid....

 

[Lotek]

Are you talking to me or stopdroplol? My comment was directed at him not you to begin with.

Sorry about the sloppy post, we are on the same page

Kids

 

[Toolhorder]

I still don't see the ignorance in my statement. But the overall point I was trying to make was there is very little regulatory oversight into auto mechanics and the work they do. If they wanna cry when somebody forces them to do a task they should already be doing in the first place as a mechanic then I couldn't care less. I can probably think of 10+ reasons why a mechanic should check the tire pressure (and condition) of every vehicle he works on, but the one i'm most concerned about is safety. Not just for the driver but the community as well.

The ignorance is the fact you think we are not well regulated, and we have no required education. You also mentioned we should be made to work for free as well.
What type of work do you do? Please tell me so I can rip your career apart without having any knowledge of what I'm talking about.

 

[stopdroplol]

And we wonder why California is going broke....

It's your car, it's your responsibility to keep air in your tires. If they go flat and shred or you get bad gas mileage, then that's what you get for not maintaining your car.

Big brother get out of my life!

I don't know how it is in Oklahoma but here in Southern California our freeways are littered with blown tires. I commute about 30 miles across two freeways, 5 days a week, and probably pass at least 20 different tires (or at least pieces of them). As a lane splitting motorcyclist I would really, really appreciate it if somebody did something about it.

Nobody is saying it isn't the drivers responsibility to maintain their vehicles (including tires). California simply says that the shops have to check the tires of any vehicle that comes in (if I understand this thread right). To me the two are not mutually exclusive and I don't understand how any can view it as a bad thing, UNLESS, you're just completely opposed to any form of government oversight period. Which to me, is just ignorant.

 

[Nor*Cal]

This was adopted as part of the AB 32 scoping plan more as a common sense measure (compared to the expensive and extensive other measures) that results in some decent emission reductions.

Some odd conceptions of the the relationship between CARB and EPA (assuming we are talking about US/EPA and not Cal/EPA) which is pretty minor as CARB receives authority from state law and has waivers from most US/EPA regulations as California law has allowed CARB to adopt stricter standards. US/EPA air quality regulations are implemented by local air quality management district or air pollution control districts which are not responsible to the CARB. Mobile sources are the primary jurisdiction of CARB with the recent addition (2006) of greenhouse gases. There are basically NO rules and regulations at US/EPA that California is not several years in front of...

 

[Lotek]

Kid, those are truck tires all over the road, not passenger car or light truck, in case you can't tell the difference. The thing about the regulation is that now we have to keep records so the state can play gotcha, like they do with the smog program.

What do you do for a living?

 

[FltEngCPO]

The "tire guy" started to check the hot tires and had just began to let air out because the pressure was "high" (I had checked the pressure the morning before and it was right at 35psi) when I stopped him. They actually had a waiver form for me to sign if I didn't want them to check the tire pressure.

Just goes to show you the "tire guy" is just as spupid as some drivers since he couldn't descern that the hot tires were okay. So next year, CARB will have to change the regulations to include a temperature conversion chart and measure the temp for five minutes and then make the adjustment. And a waiver? Talk about a waste of paper (even if it is recycled paper)...

How about we just return to asking them to check our tires when we want or them just offering and letting us say sure or no thanks?

 

[stopdroplol]

The ignorance is the fact you think we are not well regulated, and we have no required education. You also mentioned we should be made to work for free as well.
What type of work do you do? Please tell me so I can rip your career apart without having any knowledge of what I'm talking about.

Okay then, call me ignorant, but you guys are not "well regulated" (not even close) and there is no requirement to work on vehicles, anyone can do it legally, and they can do pretty much whatever they want, legally.

I never said techs should work for free. I said (or implied) checking a tire is something a real tech gets paid to do already. And before you explain to me what it means to be flat rate, the responsibility is on the "service provider", so if you don't believe your being compensated well enough take it up with your employer, or don't do the work.

 

[FltEngCPO]

Nobody is saying it isn't the drivers responsibility to maintain their vehicles (including tires). California simply says that the shops have to check the tires of any vehicle that comes in (if I understand this thread right). To me the two are not mutually exclusive and I don't understand how any can view it as a bad thing, UNLESS, you're just completely opposed to any form of government oversight period. Which to me, is just ignorant.

Sorry about your commute brother. I used to live outside of DC and feel your pain there...

But back to the thread, do you "really" think that car shops checking tires is going to stop tire shreds from landing on the highway? It's my experience that 90% of those are 18 wheeler retreads which I am pretty sure aren't on car tires.... And those few shreded car tires you might see are probably from people that don't take their car to any shop so they aren't going to be saved by big brother government regulation, unless CARB's next hit is making you check your tire pressure before it will allow the gas pump to turn on (don't laugh, I bet there are some out there trying to figure out how to do it...). Once you open the door, look out for that regulation creep...

 

[Lotek]

Okay then, call me ignorant, but you guys are not "well regulated" (not even close) and there is no requirement to work on vehicles, anyone can do it legally, and they can do pretty much whatever they want, legally.

I never said techs should work for free. I said (or implied) checking a tire is something a real tech gets paid to do already. And before you explain to me what it means to be flat rate, the responsibility is on the "service provider", so if you don't believe your being compensated well enough take it up with your employer, or don't do the work.

Not regulated? Then this must be a figment of my imagination.

And your job?

 

[Nor*Cal]

The thing about the regulation is that now we have to keep records so the state can play gotcha, like they do with the smog program.

Is it expected that CARB will defer to BAR to do enforcement? CARB doesn't really have any enforcement presence at auto shops so I doubt they will be doing much other than making sure people file reports. They were collaborating on that legislation that would overhaul Smog checks and actually for the first time in the history of CA lower the cost to consumers.

I assume this overall comment wasn't directed at me as I didn't mention anything about tires but I wanted to ask about the record keeping.

 

[Toolhorder]

Okay then, call me ignorant, but you guys are not "well regulated" (not even close) and there is no requirement to work on vehicles, anyone can do it legally, and they can do pretty much whatever they want, legally.

I never said techs should work for free. I said (or implied) checking a tire is something a real tech gets paid to do already. And before you explain to me what it means to be flat rate, the responsibility is on the "service provider", so if you don't believe your being compensated well enough take it up with your employer, or don't do the work.

You have no clue on so many levels.

If you think we are not well regulated I would hate to see what you call regulated. Not anyone can just work on cars for profit. Everything we do must fall in accordance with known industry procedures and practices.
You have to apply for a license to repair vehicles here in CA., you are regulated by the Bureau of Automotive Repair which is a branch of the Dept. of consumer affairs. Just like a general contractor you have to be licensed to repair vehicles.
You have to have a big ol sign with the Bureau of Automotive repairs number on it if someone has a problem with you. If a customer makes a complaint to the Bureau it gets investigated and they can revoke your license, fine you and if you really do something wrong bring criminal charges against you.
That's just the repair part. If you want to be a smog tech which I am in CA. you have to go through state approved courses.
I ended up taking a year to go through the basic clean air car course and the advanced clean air car course as well as the OBD2 class and the update class at the time. Then I had to take a test with a 68% fail rate to get my license. Oh and before you can sit for the test you also need some ASE's as well and the ASE L1 under your belt.

I AM the boss and I can't pass the 3-4 mins a car onto anyone else but my back for each car I now am required to check. I usually do the tire inflation for oil changes that's it until this BS law came around. If I work on 10 cars a day that's 30-40 mins. of lost time I could be productive with. What's funny is people like you think it's okay but then when you see my labor rate I'm a ******* cause it's too high for you. Sorry I have to pay the overhead and still pay myself. Maybe I'd lower the rate if I didn't have to check a bunch of **** by law that you should be checking yourself.
Oh and my ol' Amflo wasn't good enough for the BAR so I had to buy a Snap-on digital tire gauge at $90 to satisfy them FYI.

 

[Nor*Cal]

Gentlemen, this is a regulation for greenhouse gas reductions all the talk about shredded tires while it might be helpful is not relevant for many reasons. And BAR does regulate the industry so I do not think that's a valid argument.

 

[stopdroplol]

Kid, those are truck tires all over the road, not passenger car or light truck, in case you can't tell the difference. The thing about the regulation is that now we have to keep records so the state can play gotcha, like they do with the smog program.

What do you do for a living?

I'd say it's about 15% passenger 85% commercial but I don't see how it makes a difference. The principal is still the same and I presume (maybe incorrectly) that the commercial fleets will still have to comply with this regulation. Even if there is an exemption for them, it will still have an effect on the remaining 15%.


If you really must know i'm currently unemployed and going back to school. Before I got laid off I worked in an amusement park. Almost a month a go a quit my job as a meter reader (gas/electrical, not parking) after a couple days when they told me I'd have to work hours I told them I couldn't before I was hired. I'm currently trying to get a job with the FAA. And have spent the last year getting my Aircraft Powerplant certificate and will hopefully have my Airframe by the end of next year.

 

[Jeeprz!]

I was looking through the Tooltopia sale items, and found a CARB California approved tire inflator, a Branik, never heard of a regulation on tire inflators. Whats the scoop?

ummm, so what was the question lol?

 

[garfunkle24]

To those who don't think this will benefit safety, I offer a few quotes from another thread here that started out with the initial post:

So just as the title states. Please go out to your respective garages, or parking spots, and check the tire pressures on all your wheels.

My parents were over for the weekend. So my father asks me what this little orange circle with an ! in it? I'm like tire pressure.

Went to check it out, 9 PSI average in all the tires.

Went to their house after, the other cars were about the same. Highest PSI out of 3 cars was 15 PSI. No one checked the pressure since their last oil change.

Let me know what you guys get on your vehicles.

Here are a few of the responses, bearing in mind these are all from GARAGE Journal members:

Checked wife's Passat and the right rear was 14psi -- yikes! All the vehicles are 'topped up' now

When I ran my own motorcycle workshop, every bike that came in had low tyre pressures, some were run so low that they destroyed the tyres and inner tubes. Had I not seen this on a daily basis, I'd never have believed it!

Unfortunately, everyone I ask (when they last checked their tyre pressures) can't actually recall, some say that they leave it to the garage to do as part of the service schedule, or for the MOT test (an annual inspection on vehicles over 3 years old).

I gotta admit I used to only check my tires about once every 2-3 months, but they seemed to hold pressure well and I rarely had to top off..

Almost daily I see at least one vehicle with at least one obviously low tire. Sadly, there are ones I see parked that not only have a low tire, but it has obviously been run like that for hundreds of miles, with the outer tread worn away along with the lettering on the sidewalls.

The simple truth is that people often don't check their tire pressures. If they did, the regulation may never have been born. I'm sure studies were done as to what proportion of vehicles on the road were found to have low tire pressures, in line with the anecdotal evidence above.

Isn't this a step towards the energy independence you so desire?

 

[Toolhorder]

To those who don't think this will benefit safety, I offer a few quotes from another thread here that started out with the initial post:




Here are a few of the responses, bearing in mind these are all from GARAGE Journal members:










The simple truth is that people often don't check their tire pressures. If they did, the regulation may never have been born. I'm sure studies were done as to what proportion of vehicles on the road were found to have low tire pressures, in line with the anecdotal evidence above.

I'm not disagreeing with you but if Ford explorer's weren't blowing tires and killing people this regulation wouldn't have been born. That's the real reason it happened.

 

[Lotek]

Is it expected that CARB will defer to BAR to do enforcement? CARB doesn't really have any enforcement presence at auto shops so I doubt they will be doing much other than making sure people file reports. They were collaborating on that legislation that would overhaul Smog checks and actually for the first time in the history of CA lower the cost to consumers.

I assume this overall comment wasn't directed at me as I didn't mention anything about tires but I wanted to ask about the record keeping.

keep a copy of the vehicle service invoice for a minimum of
three years, and make the vehicle service invoice available
to ARB, or its authorized representative upon request.

Penalties. Penalties may be assessed for any violation of this
article pursuant to Health and Safety Code section 38580. Each
day during any portion of which a violation occurs is a separate
offense.

Follow the money This language smells like revenue enhancement to me, but maybe I have just grown cynical.

Notwithstanding subsection (d)(1)(A), an automotive service
provider need not perform the check and inflate service if:
(A) the tires are on a vehicle with a GVWR over 10,000 lbs.;

Google is your friend

 

[Toolhorder]

keep a copy of the vehicle service invoice for a minimum of
three years, and make the vehicle service invoice available
to ARB, or its authorized representative upon request.

Penalties. Penalties may be assessed for any violation of this
article pursuant to Health and Safety Code section 38580. Each
day during any portion of which a violation occurs is a separate
offense.

Follow the money This language smells like revenue enhancement to me, but maybe I have just grown cynical.

For shure...BAR is a racket. Look at the newletter for shops that get busted. 90% are small independent shops. Hardly ever a dealer on there. Are dealers better? Nope dealers have lawyers that fight back and they produce more tax revenue so they steer investigations toward to weaker in the industry.

 

[stopdroplol]

You have no clue on so many levels.

If you think we are not well regulated I would hate to see what you call regulated. Not anyone can just work on cars for profit. Everything we do must fall in accordance with known industry procedures and practices.
You have to apply for a license to repair vehicles here in CA., you are regulated by the Bureau of Automotive Repair which is a branch of the Dept. of consumer affairs. Just like a general contractor you have to be licensed to repair vehicles.
You have to have a big ol sign with the Bureau of Automotive repairs number on it if someone has a problem with you. If a customer makes a complaint to the Bureau it gets investigated and they can revoke your license, fine you and if you really do something wrong bring criminal charges against you.
That's just the repair part. If you want to be a smog tech which I am in CA. you have to go through state approved courses.
I ended up taking a year to go through the basic clean air car course and the advanced clean air car course as well as the OBD2 class and the update class at the time. Then I had to take a test with a 68% fail rate to get my license. Oh and before you can sit for the test you also need some ASE's as well and the ASE L1 under your belt.

"very little regulatory oversight". That's what I said.

What license are you referring to to work on cars? Looking at the BAR's site I only see 3, 2 for smog and 1 for lights/brakes. Is there anything else you need a license to do work on or with?

Tell me if i'm wrong but my understanding is the BAR really does not proactively enforce the work, they simply investigate consumer claims. Unlike other industries where the regulatory entity will either come out and look at the work, or license people to do it (such as they do with smog). Does the BAR ever perform inspections of your shop? If so what do they usually look for?

I AM the boss and I can't pass the 3-4 mins a car onto anyone else but my back for each car I now am required to check. I usually do the tire inflation for oil changes that's it until this BS law came around. If I work on 10 cars a day that's 30-40 mins. of lost time I could be productive with. What's funny is people like you think it's okay but then when you see my labor rate I'm a ******* cause it's too high for you. Sorry I have to pay the overhead and still pay myself. Maybe I'd lower the rate if I didn't have to check a bunch of **** by law that you should be checking yourself.

I'm not sure what you make but I just computed a mastertech salary of 60,000 into 45 mins of extra work on 10 cars. It came out to $18.75 extra a day, or $1.87. Per vehicle. So even if you paid somebody a master techs salary, and passed 100% of that cost onto the consumer I still think this legislation is reasonable. And I think most people would be perfectly fine paying the extra 2 dollars.

Oh and my ol' Amflo wasn't good enough for the BAR so I had to buy a Snap-on digital tire gauge at $90 to satisfy them FYI.

I seriously doubt they made you buy the Snap-on.

 

[Danglerb]

Good.
Better tire gauges, maybe even at decent prices may start showing up. By better I mean accurate to within a PSI, and temperature compensating as well as flow compensation (most gauges don't read correctly when air is flowing into the tire).

Less gas used from better MPG.

Fewer tire failures, detection of bad tires, refilling from normal air loss.

May create some good will with customers.

Great time to pitch customers with a tire sale, or N2 service.

Bad.
More regulation and government sticking in its not uncamel like nose in your business.

Costs the shops for time to test and fill, keep records, and buy good gauges.

Shops that don't test may end up getting sued if a tire later fails.

Who is Branick?
Old USA tire equipment company, currently looks like the supplier of the N2 stuff to Costco. www.branick.com Inflator is about the only hit I get from a google of CARB tire inflator, I noticed it cause its in the sale at www.tooltopia.com $52 and meeting CARB certification caught my interest.

 

[Nor*Cal]

keep a copy of the vehicle service invoice for a minimum of
three years, and make the vehicle service invoice available
to ARB, or its authorized representative upon request.

Penalties. Penalties may be assessed for any violation of this
article pursuant to Health and Safety Code section 38580. Each
day during any portion of which a violation occurs is a separate
offense.

Follow the money This language smells like revenue enhancement to me, but maybe I have just grown cynical.

This regulation will not even touch the $100+ billion raised between 2013-2020 from ARB's recently adopted Cap-and-Trade regulation. ARB really screwed the pooch on this rulemaking. Initially rejected due to a bunch of administrative errors. I'm surprised ASCCA's comments were not stronger.

 

[Jeeprz!]

To those who don't think this will benefit safety, I offer a few quotes from another thread here that started out with the initial post:




Here are a few of the responses, bearing in mind these are all from GARAGE Journal members:










The simple truth is that people often don't check their tire pressures. If they did, the regulation may never have been born. I'm sure studies were done as to what proportion of vehicles on the road were found to have low tire pressures, in line with the anecdotal evidence above.

Isn't this a step towards the energy independence you so desire?

"a tire pressure gauge with a total permissible error no greater than + two (2) pounds per square inch (psi)."

Coo or brand of the tool is irrelevant, as is the size of the tires 8P
Its purpose is setting a standard for the accuracy of the gauge to test proper inflation. If the tool is accurate it gets the seal of approval. Now, If you stood in line since tuesday night to get a BF deal on one for $1.99 and it doesnt have the seal of approval, by what reliable standard do you know it's accurate? and if the gauge isn't accurate, why bother using a gauge?

 

[Jeeprz!]

"I can remember pulling into a gas station, saying; 'filler 'er up' and having them pump the gas, check the battery, oil level and tires,, fill the radiator and windshield washer, clean the front and rear windows and wipe the headlamps and taillights..

Grandpa go to bed your drunk...

 

[stopdroplol]

Sorry about your commute brother. I used to live outside of DC and feel your pain there...

But back to the thread, do you "really" think that car shops checking tires is going to stop tire shreds from landing on the highway? It's my experience that 90% of those are 18 wheeler retreads which I am pretty sure aren't on car tires.... And those few shreded car tires you might see are probably from people that don't take their car to any shop so they aren't going to be saved by big brother government regulation, unless CARB's next hit is making you check your tire pressure before it will allow the gas pump to turn on (don't laugh, I bet there are some out there trying to figure out how to do it...). Once you open the door, look out for that regulation creep...

It's just a numbers game. Thousands of cars go in and out of shops every day. If the owners are as bad at maintaining there tires as others have said in this thread it's guaranteed to save more than a few lives, the thousands in damages. Compare that with the relativity minor cost to implement, whether on the shop or consumer and this probably comes out as one of the most cost effective ways to save lives, save vehicles, reduce gas consumption, and reduce pollution.

 

[Toolhorder]

"very little regulatory oversight". That's what I said.

What license are you referring to to work on cars? Looking at the BAR's site I only see 3, 2 for smog and 1 for lights/brakes. Is there anything else you need a license to do work on or with?

Tell me if i'm wrong but my understanding is the BAR really does not proactively enforce the work, they simply investigate consumer claims. Unlike other industries where the regulatory entity will either come out and look at the work, or license people to do it (such as they do with smog). Does the BAR ever perform inspections of your shop? If so what do they usually look for?




I'm not sure what you make but I just computed a mastertech salary of 60,000 into 45 mins of extra work on 10 cars. It came out to $18.75 extra a day, or $1.87. Per vehicle. So even if you paid somebody a master techs salary, and passed 100% of that cost onto the consumer I still think this legislation is reasonable. And I think most people would be perfectly fine paying the extra 2 dollars.



I seriously doubt they made you buy the Snap-on.

You need an Auto repair license to work on cars in CA. Most of the time it's referred to as an ARB license.

They investigate work if a consumer complains and they also send "BAR cars" into shops which are undercover cars usually with hidden cams/mics and they also mark parts with UV pens so they can tell if something has been replaced or not.
It would be impossible to go around and check every repair it's just not practical. That doesn't mean they don't regulate however. They can come in and inspect your records anytime they want. They usually don't "inspect" the shop. That's OSHA's job.

It's been awhile since I looked at the law but I'm pretty sure if you passed along a $2 fee to check the tires nobody would want to pay it. I already have to charge $2 for hazmat per invoice.

They didn't force me to buy the Snap-on inflator but in the beginning they said it had to meet some certification or approval so my older Amflo was no good. They don't seem to be enforcing the issue now though.

Last time BAR came they wanted to warn not to recommend anything that's not in the vehicle manufacturers maintenance schedule as some shop's are overselling junk services (power steering/transmission/engine flushing, fuel injection services)
Since the economy is down they try to make it up with those BS services and tell the customers they NEED it done or XYZ will happen. Big NO-NO from the BAR.

 

[Toolhorder]

"I can remember pulling into a gas station, saying; 'filler 'er up' and having them pump the gas, check the battery, oil level and tires,, fill the radiator and windshield washer, clean the front and rear windows and wipe the headlamps and taillights..

Grandpa go to bed your drunk...

They would adjust my voltage regulator and add acetylene to my headlights too. ha ha ha

Seriously though I want to move out of state and find an old service station and revamp it. Make it look like a 50's service station, hire some kids to pump the gas and check everything full service (unless you don't want it) and charge the same price for gas and whatever the self serves do. I'll hire high school kids and make them wear uniforms from the 50's. My shop will be in the building and hopefully between the shop and convenience shop I'll make out okay.
It's got to have that hose that dings when you pull up too. Can't forget that.

 

[blue dog]

Toolhorder, i can not remember the last time i saw a full serve gas station.

 

[Lotek]

This regulation will not even touch the $100+ billion raised between 2013-2020 from ARB's recently adopted Cap-and-Trade regulation. ARB really screwed the pooch on this rulemaking. Initially rejected due to a bunch of administrative errors. I'm surprised ASCCA's comments were not stronger.

A nickle here, a dime there, this just gets the camel's nose under the tentflap. It's still a poorly written law that only someone with a government regulator/nannystate mentality could love.

Toolhorder, good luck with that, kids today don't want to do that kind of work, they would rather collect unemployment or work for the govt, enforcing poorly thought out laws enacted by ignorant treehuggers in Sacramento

 

[Jeeprz!]

"i can not remember the last time i saw a full serve"

- because it doesnt exist here anymore, sad but a reality