Shed - Design phase questions

[964haus]

Hi guys,
I’ve done the usual searching but figured I’d ask directly.

I’m in the process of designing a shed – 10’x12’ or 10’x14’. To please my wife, it’s to look like a ‘little version of our house’, so it will be finished to a high standard – wood windows to match our house, cedar shingled w/ rain screen, lighting, etc. Inside, the shed will be used to house my adventure motorcycle, gear, and tools (think storage and mini-workshop) to allow me to wrench on it. Proper lighting, flooring, windows, and possibly a skylight will make it a good working environment.

We don't have a garage and don't intend on building one - we're on a 33'x122' lot - so the shed with be my taj mahal...inspired by everyone here, especially by lupinsea...

It will be insulated, and so here are my questions:
- what’s the best way to insulate under the floor? I’m assuming rigid insulation of some sort, but just wondering how best to do it (i.e. vapour barrier underneath?)
- what’s the best way to keep critters out? I’m thinking of trimming around the base with PT wood, thus eliminating the ‘crawl space’ under the shed. Likely it would need to be buried a bit to keep it secure. Other ideas?
- I intend on making my own doors – plywood with insulation in between. Should I use a vapour barrier on the outside face of the insulation?
- any ideas for flooring? I’m considering using a lino floor on top of the base wood, but also thinking of marmoleum – other ideas? It will need to be somewhat tough to withstand motorcycle wrenching and the occasional spilled liquid.

Thanks everyone – this forum is truly one of the best around given all that I’ve learned in such a short time.

Will update with pictures as I continue to design…

 

[Zeke]

I'll start at the bottom. Marmoleun ain't cheap. I've got it in my kitchen and love it. I don't think it will stand up to work shop abuse forever. I'd go wood and let it get beat. Bambo is tough as hell.

Your home made doors need to be sealed well or they will get ugly. I'd suggest solid wood all around the edges with the foam core and ply face. No need for a VB because no water should be allowed to enter.

Critters? What kind? A metal skirt will stop almost any that I know of and if it don't, I don't want to see what ate it. Put the metal down into the ground if you want and cover it with trim if you don't want to see it. Lots of these kinds of sheds have lattice at the base.

VB under the raised floor? You bet. Insulation? Well, if you're building a 10 x 12 refrigerator.

How are you heating or cooling this building?

 

[Brentocool]

Just built this one this summer.The only problem I'm having is settling. I used cement blocks under my foundation. really theres only one block settling. but its in front, right in the center. I have jacked it up once already and its down again? Not bad at all just throws the doors off about 1/8" it just bugs me but doors still work great I still have to skirt it. I should of done that before I sidded it now I have no where to secure the skirt the front was easy just a vinyl board that I can remove. I will figure something out in the spring. Mine is 10'x12' . I dont think its big enough to work in but maybe

 

[964haus]

At this point, I'm limited to a portable oil-filled space heater for when the weather is really too cold.....which doesn't happen too often. I'm in Vancouver, BC, and despite it being wet it doesn't really get freezing cold. I was thinking that insulation (and gable vents) would keep it OK to work in, most of the time...

The metal skirt is a great idea, thanks. I will think about the doors - thinking custom only because they will be smaller than 'normal' because it's a shed.

Thanks for the reply - keep 'em coming

Matthew

 

[964haus]

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/46079237@N05/6402096669/" title="KTM_shed_-_Nov_21 by matthewroddisurbandesign, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6041/6402096669_6da242e4c0.jpg" width="500" height="380" alt="KTM_shed_-_Nov_21"></a>

For reference, here's the first cut on what this thing will hopefully look like....(the framing at least)

The existing fruit tree really sets the siting in place, as does the existing poured concrete pathway done during our renovation 6 years ago. The white building is the neighbours garage. The idea is to fit it between that garage and the pathway, with doors opening onto the lane at the rear of the property.

M.

 

[Jagmandave]

Why put it so far back in the corner of the yard? Why not move it up closer to the house, maybe on the side so you don't have to run the electric so far?
plus you won't get so wet going back and forth to use the head in the house.

 

[Zeke]

Why put it so far back in the corner of the yard? Why not move it up closer to the house, maybe on the side so you don't have to run the electric so far?
plus you won't get so wet going back and forth to use the head in the house.

He just said the rear door will open to a common area.

964haus (I assume you're a Porsche 964 owner), a sealed element electric baseboard heater would be perfect

Either way and under the circumstances, I'd install some fiberglass faced insulation under the floor. Turn the face down and for a complete seal, lay a VB on the joists prior to the subfloor going down. The down side to this is not being able to glue down your subfloor.

And all of this is assuming that the finish floor height is not a couple feet above grade. If you do that, standard floor construction is in order.

 

[964haus]

I've played around with the siting, but a few things really drive where it's ended up being:
- there is a pretty significant garden to the right of the tree plus the kids' monkey bars, etc
- the yard is small, and so I'm trying to retain as much grass as possible for the kids to use
- there is already a structure on that side of the yard (the neighbour's garage) and so I figured it wouldn't make it feel imposing on the yard
- i want to retain direct access to the lane for motorcycle access


A couple more photos showing from the lane, and beginning to add some materials:

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/46079237@N05/6402207085/" title="KTM_shed_2_Nov_21 by matthewroddisurbandesign, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7011/6402207085_e88a2a568b.jpg" width="500" height="413" alt="KTM_shed_2_Nov_21"></a>
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/46079237@N05/6402207255/" title="KTM_shed_3_Nov_21 by matthewroddisurbandesign, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6038/6402207255_250c56936f.jpg" width="500" height="413" alt="KTM_shed_3_Nov_21"></a>

 

[964haus]

Just built this one this summer.The only problem I'm having is settling. I used cement blocks under my foundation. really theres only one block settling. but its in front, right in the center. I have jacked it up once already and its down again? Not bad at all just throws the doors off about 1/8" it just bugs me but doors still work great I still have to skirt it. I should of done that before I sidded it now I have no where to secure the skirt the front was easy just a vinyl board that I can remove. I will figure something out in the spring. Mine is 10'x12' . I dont think its big enough to work in but maybe

Brentocool,
I followed your build closely and it gave me some good ideas. Thanks!

M.

 

[fergus]

Do the doors open into an alley? ARe you sure you want that? Easy access for you and the bike, but easy access for everybody else too.

 

[964haus]

He just said the rear door will open to a common area.

964haus (I assume you're a Porsche 964 owner), a sealed element electric baseboard heater would be perfect

Either way and under the circumstances, I'd install some fiberglass faced insulation under the floor. Turn the face down and for a complete seal, lay a VB on the joists prior to the subfloor going down. The down side to this is not being able to glue down your subfloor.

And all of this is assuming that the finish floor height is not a couple feet above grade. If you do that, standard floor construction is in order.

Thanks for the heating advice - I'm thinking it'll keep me warm enough.

I joined the forum while I was designing a garage for a [future] 964 - alas I've been since bitten by the adventure riding bug and so the 964 has been put on hold....hence the wee shed.

 

[964haus]

Do the doors open into an alley? ARe you sure you want that? Easy access for you and the bike, but easy access for everybody else too.

I figure if I build decent enough doors and think about securing them properly, it'll be no less secure than a typical garage (which around here, all open up onto the lane). For sure locks/bars and cane bolts securing the carriage doors.

I don't really worry too much about the lane - we have a laneway house just across the lane from us, which has windows/door facing the lane, and keeps a certain amount of activity on the lane. Actually makes for a nice, pedestrian environment....

 

[p_mori7]

That's gonna be a nice little space. If it were me, I would build it on concrete slab, stable & sturdy, lower profile for bringing the bike in & out. 4" thick would be plenty, and if the walls & cieling are insulated, you'll be fine.

 

[Zeke]

That's gonna be a nice little space. If it were me, I would build it on concrete slab, stable & sturdy, lower profile for bringing the bike in & out. 4" thick would be plenty, and if the walls & cieling are insulated, you'll be fine.

Yeah, but working on cold concrete gets old fast. If he had a way to heat the slab economically, I'd agree with you.

The only reason I suggested a baseboard heater is because you get faster heat. I use the oil gizmos and they are great for long term occupation of a space.

 

[Torque1st]

What happens with the runoff from your roof and the garage next door?

Is it possible to build it bigger for future uses?

I would also build it on a concrete slab.

The insulation vapor barrier faces the conditioned space.

 

[p_mori7]

The OP is in Vancouver, it never gets really cold there, if the building is continually heated, the slab will retain heat for a long time. He can also lay down some insulation & vapor barrier before laying down the slab.

 

[Jack Olsen]

Very nice.

But if you make that shed just a little bigger, you could still fit a 964 in it.

What is adventure riding?

 

[ChargedUp!]

In my opinion, I would also do a slab base. Any chance you can make it longer too? 14' with a motorcycle and you and storage stuff isn't a ton of room. Go deep and high for more storage options.

 

[Lippyp]

If you secure around the base to keep animals out make sure you still get some airflow under there, IME good airflow under a raised shed like that is key to preventing any rot especially if its a wet climate. You should incorporate some metal grilles to let air flow through from one side to the other. As to the doors, easiset way to secure them when the bike is inside is a simple steel bar across the two on the inside along with the bolts. I ahve steel bars on the inside of my wooden shutters on my holiday home , would amke it impossible to pry them open without totally destroying them.

 

[964haus]

The shed has to be on block foundation - local codes would require going through the permit process to allow for a permanent foundation. The maximum size I can go it 10 sq.m. which is just over 100 sq. ft. As is, I'm pushing the limits, but figured I had a great relationship with my neighbours and so the extra size shouldn't matter. I'm also trying to do this as efficiently as possible, given a small budget...

As I have no space now, anything will be an improvement. Given the restrictions on our tiny (yet way too expensive!!) lot, the desire to keep as much garden/yard space as possible for the little one, and local bylaws, I am looking for my own [little] space. Done right, and with all the influences I've found on here, I'm sure it will be good. Don't forget, it's a city/urban lot - everyone around me has tiny garages, tiny lots, small houses...huge mortgages....

Thanks for all the input so far, will keep documenting as i get going.

Matthew.

 

[964haus]

Very nice.

But if you make that shed just a little bigger, you could still fit a 964 in it.

What is adventure riding?

Jack,
BTW, I'm a huge fan of your work in your garage and on the p-car. I've been searching for the right 964 for years, but got bitten by the bike bug a while ago....kudos to all your innovation and execution of your work.

Adventure riding is essentially riding your motorcycle for an extended period of time to places that you'd otherwise not go. Think Long Way Round/Down. Mine will be a trip to the arctic circle with 3 good friends on a KTM Adventure bike, fully loaded with all camping gear, tools, tires, etc.

Read more about it here: advrider.com

BEWARE - between that site and garagejournal, be prepared to spend countless hours in front of the computer.....

Matthew.