Garage epoxy prep - story so far and some questions

[Cosmic_Monkey]

Hi All,

First time post in this great forum. I've been a lurker for a while, reading lots of posts and thought I would join the fun!

My current project is finishing off the garage/workshop that the previous owner didn't. In fact he left the floor in a terrible state! I found the big box store epoxy around the back of the garage when I moved in, so I know exactly what he tried to put down. Last weekend, I rented a diamond grinder and went to work. The epoxy came off pretty easily where it was peeling, but was bonded pretty well in some areas (I guess it proves that the cheap stuff CAN give you good results!)



The work was VERY dusty and even with the shop vac attached to the grinder there was a thick layer of dust on everything! I vacuumed as much as I could and then resorted to the hose pipe and broom to wash the stuff out. Then I noticed these strange spots on the floor (that whole rectangular area is wet)



It looks like the exact spacing of a car or truck. I know there was some 'hot tire pickup' in places in the old epoxy, so it probably from the tires, but how do I get rid of them?! I really don't want to rent the grinder again. I will try some muriatic acid and see what that does, but may have to resort to hand grinding those small areas. Any idea what I can use? It looks as though the concrete is sealed in those places (but may just be residue from tires that have been sitting there long term) and I've read that muriatic acid will not work to remove sealer...

My garage is also constructed with a course of block with stud on top. When cleaning up the edges and corners, I noticed that there is wood that was used to form the slab and it's damp and rotten. Any suggestions? I was going to scrape out the wood down 0.5-1" and back fill with concrete filler, then epoxy over this up to the block. (I was contemplating epoxy on the block but it's too much effort and would rather paint later).



Last but not least - this is the previous owners idea of a semi-professionally installed dog door (!!!) It's a basic Clopay garage door. Does anyone know where I can get a replacement panel?



I hope to get the epoxy down in a few weekends time when the prep is finished. After careful consideration, I'm planning on using a coat of preprime 167 followed by Devran 224HS and Devthane 379UVA. They are all available locally and I thought this was a good compromise between quality/cost.

Thanks for looking!
Cosmic

 

[Stryker124]

As far as those spots are concerned, it looks like overspray from a tire shine spray type of product...I've noticed similar stains on my driveway after a rain. I'm not sure what you can do to get rid of them, as I've never tried. I suspect if the concrete had been properly sealed, this wouldn't have been as much an issue. None of that helps you now I realize, but hopefully the muriatic acid will take it out.

Good Luck!

 

[OBP]

Hey Cosmic,

I think Stryker might have nailed it, looks like tire shine. I would degrease it really well, acid wont remove the silicone thats in the tire shine.
Try putting some heavy duty degreaser on it and scrub it with a course brush a couple of times, rinsing in between, basically until the water absorbs into those parts as well. if you have a power washer that may help significantly.

Hope that fixes the problem. Keep us up to date.

 

[Cosmic_Monkey]

Thanks for the replies! I'll give that a try this weekend and let you know how I get on. I hadn't thought of tire shine products. I also noticed the same pattern in one of the other bays last night (!!!) Whatever it is must have penetrated below the surface because I ground pretty thoroughly and to miss those particular spots would be unlikely.

I'm still working on the other issues. I have no idea whether to go with a vinyl based concrete patch compound or a non-vinyl. I have the edges to repair (where the rotten wood is), ~4 cracks (hairline to 1/8" gap) and 1 expansion joint which I'm thinking of filling with Legacy's HD-821 Gel style Crack Sealant. It's a bit pricey but has good reviews on this forum. Plus the garage door repair. Sometimes I think this job is never going to end!

 

[munkey]

FWIW, I definitely enjoyed working with the Legacy epoxy gel and it seems very strong. There is absolutely NO comparison between a product like that and the cheap vinyl stuff.

The prep is looking good; I bet your floor is going to come out great. Let us know if/how you manage to get those tire residue/tire shine spots up. (It's a little bit of an unlucky situation, since those spots are probably exactly where you're going to put your car, and where you need the adhesion to be at a maximum!)

 

[Edger]

That tire shine silicone is terrible stuff. After my first encounter I added a clause to my quote sheet to say I would not guarantee my work over it.

I tried grinding, paint stripper, heavy duty alkaline cleaner, thinners, acid, but nothing worked.

The crazy thing is that apart from producing severe "fish eye" in the top of the coating adhesion seemed to be OK. I never got a complaint although I never slept easy for a couple of years after either.

Search this forum for tiles, that might be your best bet.

For the wood repair use car body filler, it works very well.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

When our installers hit oil or silicone they can't remove, they will diamond grind the areas until the material (oil) is not showing, then they level the ground area with epoxy patch and regrind flush when cured.

That is truly the only way to guarantee a successful bond.

 

[Edger]

Hey Scotty,

I never thought about that, silicone will not penetrate very far, good solution.

However, a warning to others. Often in old factories oil is right through the slab and deep into the soil underneath as well. As you said "grind the areas until the material (oil) is not showing". That would be safe as long as it was possible. What I am talking about is where an oil-leaking machine has sat in the one spot for 40 years.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Edger:
You are correct with the old oil leakers. It will keep coming up.
We do have a primer for oil contaminated concrete. However, it's black and it takes a few coats of epoxy to hide it.

 

[Cosmic_Monkey]

Wow! This might turn out to be a bigger problem than I first thought. I will try all of the (easier) suggestions above at the weekend, maybe I'll get lucky.

Cosmic

 

[Cosmic_Monkey]

OK, so tried the 'easier' suggestions with varying success. I tried scrubbing the areas with a degreaser, rinsed and repeated, but it was slow going and didn't really seem to be doing much. It looked like one got a little better (was absorbing water, rather than just sitting on the surface) but I just don't want to chance it. In for a penny, in for a pound!

So I resorted to grinding out the offending areas until a light mist is absorbed instantly and I'll patch it with either the legacy gel stuff (if I have enough left over from the expansion joint filling) or regular concrete patching compound.

Updates to follow!

 

[Edger]

Good job, hope it works out.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Use an epoxy product to fill. A cementitious product won't have the impact strength.
Be a shame to have a problem down the road.

 

[Cosmic_Monkey]

Use an epoxy product to fill. A cementitious product won't have the impact strength.
Be a shame to have a problem down the road.

I was afraid someone was going to say that. Does anyone have any suggestions for getting an epoxy product locally (USA, east coast)? I have actually ordered some legacy gel and am waiting for it to arrive, but might need more down the road and waiting for an internet delivery holds the job up...

I've seen some Norcrete Crack Filler online but no idea if you can get it at a brick and mortar store. The 'blue' and 'orange' stores are next to useless as usual.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Monkey, call me if you need it fast. We can get it out fast if need be.
For the ground areas I would be using our patch material not the gel.

 

[baartman]

That rotten wood is probably not wood but is a slab isolation board to protect the slab from expanding and pushing out the walls. I would advise against filling it in as that would then allow the slab to push out the walls. If you want a clean look, you may look into pinning a trim piece onto the block wall only.

 

[munkey]

I had very good results with this:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0008JHBD2/?tag=atomicindus08-20

It is 100% solids epoxy and very strong, and has a reasonable working time. I can't tell exactly how large your area to be filled is, but one kit goes a reasonably long way.

The big boxes might not have it, but this is definitely the best "local hardware store available" patching product I have used. (The Amazon link is just for reference; I got it at some local Ace franchise.)

 

[Cosmic_Monkey]

Baartman: I think you are spot on - on closer inspection, it does look more like a fibrous material, very similar to the way wood looks when rotten (but dry). There were huge sections that were missing and some parts that just fell apart in my hand so I ended up picking those out. I didn't want to just leave it, so ended up backfilling with backer rod and put a thin layer (1/4-1/2") of concrete patcher to meet up with the wall. The slab still has plenty of room to expand and if the thin sections end up cracking (and hopefully not the wall!) then I'll either leave them or cover with baseboard.

munkey: Thanks! I actually had a look for that stuff everywhere, including Ace. It looks to be more expensive than the legacy stuff (lb for lb), and I'll probably need more than I think so I'll probably just buy 1 gal from them, I'll keep my eye out though!

Scotty: Thanks for the offer. The temperature has dropped on the east coast so there is a little less rush - I'll have to wait until I get a few days of 50F+ weather to finish things off now. I would hate to have to wait until spring!

 

[wasupdu]

The temperature has dropped on the east coast so there is a little less rush - I'll have to wait until I get a few days of 50F+ weather to finish things off now. I would hate to have to wait until spring!

I live in the upper Midwest just now finally made a decision to do something with the floor, but now it's in the low 30's. I was gonna go the epoxy route, but due to the low temps I opted for RaceDeck....should be here sometime next week and I'll install it over the weekend.

 

[baartman]

Couldn't have come up with a better solution myself. Good idea with the backer rod!

 

[Cosmic_Monkey]

Monkey, call me if you need it fast. We can get it out fast if need be.
For the ground areas I would be using our patch material not the gel.

Hey Scotty,

Would the "Epoxy Concrete Patch, 1 gal, HD-110" be the best product to use on the shallow ground areas? I read the data sheet and it says to mix with aggregate, I'm assuming it doesn't come with that so what would you recommend?

The temperatures haven't been too bad the last couple of days here so I've applied the gel to the expansion joints. It sagged a little overnight, so will have to go over it again to fill flush. Photos to come!