How to fix garage floor (huge cracks)

[onesight1]

Whats the best way to fix my garage floor ?

I hope there are other "acceptable" solutions rather than " rip it all out, lay new cement out."


Eventully I want to either lay out epoxy or VCT tile...also considering just plain old ceramic tile like some other posters on the forum

would laying out some leveling cement work?

 

[ConCretin]

Unfortunately, the short answer is, no. The floor appears to have failed structurally due to some kind of sub grade issue.

Unless you fix the sub grade problem, the cracks will continue to move causing any material placed over then to fail as well.

You didn't post your location, but it looks like a frost related issue based on the proximity to the door/driveway. It could also be water related.

I wouldn't waste money on a floor covering until I fixed the problem correctly.

If it is a floating slab i.e. it doesn't support the curb walls, removing a section of the existing floor, correcting the sub grade issue and replacing the slab sounds worse than it is. You could do much of the work yourself and save a bunch.

 

[Edger]

I tried to save a couple of floors like that in the past for people who did not want to pull it out and both times everyone was disappointed in the end result.

It is only a small investment more to put another slab in and the results are perfect compared to the poor finish and reliability of repairing.

It looks at first glance like water under the slab either past or present is the problem (or frost issues as Wilysfan mentioned which I know nothing about because it never snows here). This usually happens because of rain exposure through the joints or a broken drain pipe nearby. The soil under the slab becomes saturated, vehicle traffic pushes the slab up and down or the soil just subsides and shrinks so when it dries there is open space underneath. Eventually the slab cracks and falls because there is nothing under it to support it. It will always move in the future so I agree that any repairs or covering will eventually be ruined.

 

[onesight1]

I live in Erie, PA...

Thank you both for the detailed response .... what a bummer... Im going to see what I can do .

 

[ConCretin]

I live in Erie, PA...

In that case, I'm guessin it's not the frost.

Probably a water issue as Edger suggested. Good luck.

 

[dcs Inc]

This area isn't heated. You have had a sub grade failure causing one side to fall. It's caused a tight fit causing the center area to raise due to expansion. This can be fixed with some mud jacking, epoxy injection, wide saw cuts to give room for expansion, but for what it would cost, (and finding the correct personnel to do it) it would be better to just have it cut out and replaced. You can do just part of it and treat the crack toward the rear.
Look for downspouts near that corner and get the water away from the foundation. If this is a brick/block veneer exterior, check the the mortar joints for movement.

If the cracks were not so active, (evident by the heavy chipping along the crack), you could get the slab stabilized and then go with an overlay to mimic random stones. The joints of the pattern would follow these crack lines. It doesn't make it go away but hides them. Good luck, gene ec-Indy

 

[CreteCoater]

And if you decide to go that route I'm just a phone call away

 

[onesight1]

This area isn't heated. You have had a sub grade failure causing one side to fall. It's caused a tight fit causing the center area to raise due to expansion. This can be fixed with some mud jacking, epoxy injection, wide saw cuts to give room for expansion, but for what it would cost, (and finding the correct personnel to do it) it would be better to just have it cut out and replaced. You can do just part of it and treat the crack toward the rear.
Look for downspouts near that corner and get the water away from the foundation. If this is a brick/block veneer exterior, check the the mortar joints for movement.

If the cracks were not so active, (evident by the heavy chipping along the crack), you could get the slab stabilized and then go with an overlay to mimic random stones. The joints of the pattern would follow these crack lines. It doesn't make it go away but hides them. Good luck, gene ec-Indy

So much knowledge on this board... its incredible...

I am a first time homeowner and am learning how to work with wood and build/renovate things... Cement/masonry is ONE thing I am completely clueless on.

I was totally psyched about being so young and having a kick *** garage...I've spent a lot of hours getting it to where its at now... And I thought, "if only I had a finished floor, this garage would be realllly nice!" But now Im so saddened that its going to take much more time+money to even get started on laying on tile...

One thing I may add.... is when I bought the house, the ONLY ONE thing that I saw as a potential problem was the gutters... I do not think they are working as effectively as they should... I'm going to sit and watch that corner of the garage come next heavy rainfall, and see if maybe that's whats causing the ground to get so saturated with water.


" If this is a brick/block veneer exterior, check the the mortar joints for movement. "

Are you talking about the actual build of the garage? From what I can tell, it seems to just be cinderblocks around the base, then 2x4 construction + plywood up top

 

[onesight1]

And if you decide to go that route I'm just a phone call away

How far of a drive am I ?

I am interested, but I'd need to know a estimate...from what you see + think is the problem.


I know you have to physically SEE IN PERSON... but I'd hate to have you drive from central PA to Erie for nothing.

PM me a quote.... I wont write it in stone, since this is a virtual "guess" on your behalf

 

[onesight1]

In that case, I'm guessin it's not the frost.

Probably a water issue as Edger suggested. Good luck.

I mean, we get A LOT of snow... but I think its a water issue too...

this can be due to poor gutter system right?

 

[Jagmandave]

Do you have chipmunks? (groundsquirrels)

They burrow under ground, and one of their favorite places is under your driveway, garage floor or concrete steps......ask me how I know!

My driveway had dropped over 6 inches directly in front of my garage door, I had it mud jacked back up and the driveway has stayed in place.....the mud they use in this area is a combination of black dirt and bentonite - which hardens up like concrete. The little bastiches can't dig thru it, but they can dig right along side it, which they have now done and gone under my garage slab on one side, it's now dropped about an inch right in the middle and has cracked badly there. I trapped and killed 3 of them, but either the damage was already done, or I didn't get them all. Now that it's cold, they'll stay under ground till spring.

Look for holes on the edge of your slab near the garage door, about 1 1/2" in diameter......

 

[onesight1]

Do you have chipmunks? (groundsquirrels)

They burrow under ground, and one of their favorite places is under your driveway, garage floor or concrete steps......ask me how I know!

My driveway had dropped over 6 inches directly in front of my garage door, I had it mud jacked back up and the driveway has stayed in place.....the mud they use in this area is a combination of black dirt and bentonite - which hardens up like concrete. The little bastiches can't dig thru it, but they can dig right along side it, which they have now done and gone under my garage slab on one side, it's now dropped about an inch right in the middle and has cracked badly there. I trapped and killed 3 of them, but either the damage was already done, or I didn't get them all. Now that it's cold, they'll stay under ground till spring.

Look for holes on the edge of your slab near the garage door, about 1 1/2" in diameter......

oh...wow... thats certainly interesting. I wouldve never thought.


on another note: I drove home on my lunch break to inspect the garage floor...lol... (im obsessed) and i noticed... THERES NOT EVEN A GUTTER ON THE ROOF ON THE SIDE THAT THE CONCRETE CRACKED AND SUNKEN!

this finding MUST be a HUGE contribution to the reason the floor sunk, right guys???

 

[dcs Inc]

Water can move mountains.... so can those fuzzy little creatures. Yes, some sort of water diverter would help a lot. Check your grounds around the building and make sure you have a positive water flow away from the foundation. Also, any down spouts that go into a drain pipe can cause havoc. They used to put these in with clay tiles that breakdown after a few years and all of the rain water could be spilling out just under the surface. Plants close to the foundation are another problem. The root systems are freeways for water. gene ec-Indy

 

[Edger]

No gutter for the roof is definitely a problem and can cause the damage you have, it happened to me when one part of my garage spouting came loose and rainwater splashed all around one corner on the outside of the garage. I thought it was OK for that year because of the paved path, but I was wrong. After summer the corner of the garage floor dropped nearly half an inch and cracked the slab. I sure felt stupid for my laziness. Get some guttering first.

 

[ConCretin]

I mean, we get A LOT of snow... but I think its a water issue too...

this can be due to poor gutter system right?

It's common up here - where we get 4' of frost - for the soil under the slab to freeze and heave and crack. It's most common right in front of the garage doors where snow removal allows the frost to go deep. The solution is rigid insulation on the face of the frost wall to protect the sub grade from cold.

Probably not the situation you face but I figured I'd finish the thought for anybody with a similar problem.

you could rent a saw and a pavement breaker and have the old slab out in a weekend for a few hundred bucks. If you can figure out the sub grade issue, fixing it is not necessarily expensive. Replacing the section of slab would be less than a grand.

Don't give up on that garage you imagine.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

In the interim you could rent a scarifier and take down the high edges so they are not trip hazards. Ultimately, the best solution is to remove and repour. Your garage is not that large, you could do it yourself.

 

[pauls340]

FYI, times are tuff out there. Around this area, S.E. Michigan, you can get removed and replaced 4" concrete for about $4/ sq ft !! Back in the old days you quote $4/sq, you might get your kneecap blowin' off.

 

[bczygan]

Water and freeze thaw can certainly be a big factor in this kind of damage. Another thing to consider is that when this home was built the grade was established with heavy equipment. The builder likely cut and filled and used just the weight of the equipment to compact the sub base. And the sub base was just the existing soil. No engineered base material was brought in and compacted in lifts. In addition, the grade was probably left too low compared to surrounding grade. Is there positive drainage away from the slab? Does the surrounding grade slope down and away?
Large cracks like this occur from differential movement where one part of the slab moves differently than the other. Improper base materials or uncompacted base materials or a difference in base materials under different parts of the garage or grade and water issues can all cause or contribute.
Now the solutions.
If the slab is separate from the foundation wall you can jackhammer and sawcut and remove it.
Next correct the base by removing as much of the existing material as needed and replacing it with a proper base material compacted.
Fix any possible water problems by regrading as necessary. Install a perimeter drainage system if needed around the outside of the foundation wall.
Install a gutter system with the downspouts kicked out at least 4' from the exterior wall.
Re-pour the floor with a rebar grid. Consider this opportunity to insulate under the slab and maybe install in slab heating.

There is one other option. If this does not have a tripping hazard, just use it as is. It ain't pretty but it might be functional.

 

[onesight1]

perfect explanation.... I greatly appreciate your input.

you make perfect sense. I am looking into solutions

I will also update with pictures of the surrounding area

 

[CreteCoater]

If you can get it tore out and replaced for $4 per square foot I say jump on it, that's less than I could overlay it for.

 

[thegarageguy]

It's tough to evaluate by pics but it is possible to repair and resurface. There are many methods and systems to properly do it as well. I can say that I have successfully repaired similar looking floors. Now, before every other "expert" gets their curly Q's in a twist, remember I said it's tough to evaluate via pics. I have walked away from floors before....

Here is a recent project....huge crack...the settling caused it and excessive moisture came through because of it. Notice the repair is unnoticeable. We diamond grinded, crack repaired, waterproofed and did a double broadcast polyaspartic chip system.

 

[ConCretin]

I'll agree with theGarageGuy that it is impossible to fully evaluate the situation based on pictures but if we let that stop us we'd have nothing to argue about.

A shrinkage crack - even a big one - that has essentially stopped moving, can be successfully repaired. A major structural crack that will move every time you drive over it is a different story.

It does look to me like the latter. There are signs of vertical displacement and the fractured edges of the crack suggest movement.

You could give GarageGuy a call but keep in mind that now that he is an award winning epoxy artist, his already high prices will no doubt skyrocket making complete removal and replacement a far cheaper alternative*.

*Note: I'd put a smiley face in here to indicate an attempt at humor and good natured ribbing but I'm in the Quick Reply window.

 

[bczygan]

One more note. The solution depends on the result you desire. If you want a finished surface with no evidence of a crack and no possibility of the slab moving and telegraphing the existing crack back up through any surfacing method, then slab removal and replacement along with drainage and water and base material work is probably indicated.
If you just want a level floor and a slab that won't shift radically, then solve the water problems and the slab may stabilize enough for that. This might also be enough for the installation of a surfacing method, but the existing base remains a question.

 

[onesight1]

thank you SOOOO much guys, I've learned so much in just minutes of reading your suggestions than I have with googling this. I am going to update thread soon

 

[thegarageguy]

Good one Wllysfan....since you couldn't, here you go

Seriously though, on a slab like that, I would consider Race Deck.... surprised Jorgen didn't chime in

 

[onesight1]

okay guys....did much reading, and called a gutter company after realizing my gutters all over the house ****...

the guy basically told me what I have now....is "working against me"...all the gutters drain straight to the ground, even aim back at the house. I am out $686 fixing this problem.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Good catch. Don't under-estimate the power of water. We looked at a house years ago. The previous owner had no gutters on the back of the house. The rain water ran between the foundation and the ground, froze and bowed 30' of block foundation 2' into the basement. Talk about a mess. We passed.

 

[onesight1]

If you can get it tore out and replaced for $4 per square foot I say jump on it, that's less than I could overlay it for.

really?

some guy quoted me for 1000-1200 for a 8x17 slab that connected my already existing cement driveway to the asphalt road.... and that's with me freaking helping him rip the concrete out...after that I figured "cement work is wayyyyy out of my budget"

*this was for the end of my driveway....It ends short from the road about 8 feet ....it consists of a rock/gravel slab dirt, mixture...thing...

hell, If i found a honest decent price, Id not only help to save costs on BOTH ends, but I'd definitely consider replacing the entire garage slab + the very end of my driveway

 

[onesight1]

broken links

 

[onesight1]

If you just want a level floor and a slab that won't shift radically, then solve the water problems and the slab may stabilize enough for that. This might also be enough for the installation of a surfacing method, but the existing base remains a question.

This is what I am looking towards....

It doesn't need to be perfect

 

[Falcon67]

okay guys....did much reading, and called a gutter company after realizing my gutters all over the house ****...

the guy basically told me what I have now....is "working against me"...all the gutters drain straight to the ground, even aim back at the house. I am out $686 fixing this problem.

You could easily save 10x that by controlling the runoff and reducing potential damage to the house and other buildings. Good call on getting that worked out.

 

[Cheap5.0]

FYI, times are tuff out there. Around this area, S.E. Michigan, you can get removed and replaced 4" concrete for about $4/ sq ft !! Back in the old days you quote $4/sq, you might get your kneecap blowin' off.

This guy is right, in our area (SE MI) you can get pro work done real cheap right now. Im sure its like that in other slow areas of the country.

My slab was quoted @ $2.25-$2.75/ft depending on how much fill is needed and how much concrete goes up Jan 1. That does not include removing a slab, but it seems you could do that your self with a rented dumpster and a rented hammer.

 

[dcs Inc]

The prices have fallen for installation. I don't roll out of bed for what my competition's quoting. The poor guys are trying to keep their top employees working and are doing it for near cost... sometimes below that. The problem that creates is short cutting the process to put beans on the table. As you look at yourself and what you do to put steak on your table, hire someone that will do the job right and not cut corners.

I know it's "fun" to get a project done at the lowest price possible but when playing with concrete and epoxies, doing it twice costs a huge amount in the long run.

Also, consider this: You hire the lowest bidder. Does he have the insurance so when he or one of his employees has a nasty accident, it doesn't fall back on you. How about when he backs into the side of your house with his backhoe? Is he licensed and bonded, insured?

How about that footer mix he just laid out that will go to hell in a year? No expansion joints, no crack control cuts or misplaced or installed way too late to do any good. Water added to the surface to rub out a decent finish because of the low cement content that will start flaking off (with your pretty epoxy in 6 months).

Oh, lets talk about epoxy. Just how thin can I put it on to get by. I don't know guys, I'm talking to a wall about this. Besides the major short cutting I read on prep work and the huge areas you can get on a gallon of epoxy, how do you think you are saving money? If you look at it over a life span cost, it's much cheaper to apply at a thicker mil. When I say thicker, I normally don't stretch it further than 100 sq. ft. per gallon, maybe 120 if the surface is tight. After it leaches into the open concrete, you have very little on top left. Now if you are using a primer coat, good for you. If you are using anything less than a 100% solids, when it dries it will shrink and your final thickness will be less than when applied.

Solids content.... man here's a bite. A lot of manufactures call their product 100% solids when in fact it is but the solids are **** that doesn't help the strength or durability of the product. If it's box store prices then it has **** as fillers in it to keep the pricing down.If it has a strong odor, it's not 100% solids. Fillers can do a few of things, softness, easy scratch, brittle, not as clear, wear quickly and delaminate easily.

OK, I could go on and on but I've said enough. Good luck with your projects.
gene ec-Indy

 

[CreteCoater]

Not to mention when the economy gets rough "everyone with a pickup truck" becomes a "contractor".

 

[pauls340]

CreteCoater, I agree on the $4...I get up to $9/sqft for overlays with Mg-Krete

 

[thegarageguy]

In our biz you def get what you pay for.......most of the time is best to pay a little more for a good and reputable contractor. If bottom line number is held in higher regard than quality and workmanship, then you'll get what you deserve.

 

[pauls340]

DCS hits the nail on the head on many points. Well said. I train many contractors, sometimes two or three times and our economy is so f-ed up in most cases "low bid wins" . Usually, 100% of the time you can actually see where the "low bid won" Sometimes i'll save an extra month or two to pay for the more qualified contractor or product.

 

[QIHoustonb4]

Low bid usually gets snake bit and I agree it's a tough world in this economy. Everybody shops the price.

 

[AlphaGarage]

Addressing the water run off is the place to start. When I was in res construction and buying lots out in the middle of nowhere 1st thing I'd do was check out the scenery, but drainage was the first thing my GC partner looked at.

If you get the drainage, or whatever is caused the movement, under control then fixing the floor as-is certainly is possible. But again, you need to make sure everything is stabilized first. And it goes without saying that even with a new pour the first step is figuring out and fixing what cause the current problems.

I've run into a few local contractors who are pretty much bidding at cost just to keep their doors open and workers employed. These guys do good work and it hurts to see them struggling. They are pros, but jobs can go south even with the most careful of bids and applications, so they could be just one miscalculation away from closing up shop. Hopefully we've hit bottom and things will start to pick up, although I haven't seen many signs of that in residential construction here in So Cal.

 

[les_garten]

Addressing the water run off is the place to start. When I was in res construction and buying lots out in the middle of nowhere 1st thing I'd do was check out the scenery, but drainage was the first thing my GC partner looked at.

If you get the drainage, or whatever is caused the movement, under control then fixing the floor as-is certainly is possible. But again, you need to make sure everything is stabilized first. And it goes without saying that even with a new pour the first step is figuring out and fixing what cause the current problems.

I've run into a few local contractors who are pretty much bidding at cost just to keep their doors open and workers employed. These guys do good work and it hurts to see them struggling. They are pros, but jobs can go south even with the most careful of bids and applications, so they could be just one miscalculation away from closing up shop. Hopefully we've hit bottom and things will start to pick up, although I haven't seen many signs of that in residential construction here in So Cal.

@AlphaGarage

You guys doing any sales or Promos over the Holiday season?