A question for A and P/aircraft techs

[kippieland]

First things first.....I suggest you try another career & don't waste your hard earned money on expensive tools for a company that won't appreciate your efforts (because they won't).

However, if you plan to stay in this garbage....do yourself a big favor. I see you're in BC so go down to Canadian Tire and get that little micro-ratchet & bit set. It's in a little box and I believe it's on sale right now for 9.99 or something. It's one of the best tools out there if you work on airplanes and every single mechanic & avionics person I know has a set. It's the best cheap tool I own, without question.

http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/brow...stercraft+29-pc+Screwdriver+Set.jsp?locale=en

Don't bother with torx or pozi drive.......you'll rarely see them (but they come in that bit set I recommended anyways). I've only seen them on cheapy IFE connectors. I'm sure they're around, but not often.

I have one nut driver......and I use it on relays (and that's the only time I use it). Other than that, unless you have a specific need for one, don't bother.

A nice drill will be a necessity......get a nice little air drill, some cobalt & HSS drill bits and some Snap On EZ-outs. You'll be needing them when you have to remove the panels under the wing on the 37' I guarantee you.

Knipex plier-wrenches, long Snap On mini cutters, cannon-plug pliers, and a cheap set of SAE wrenches that you can grind, bend, cut, etc are all things that come to my mind.

You sound like an old timer who is burn-out! Thats the way almost all "senior" guy I worked with at the Airlines acted like..." I have been here for years and its changed....they used to care about us and now they treat use like ****!" Its true, they don't care about you...get over it! That attitude is pervasive and it ruins the work enviroment....my very first day on the job a guy told me "welcome....your going to HATE it hear!" I thought, "thanks bud...here I move all the way cross state, excited for a new job in a new city, and you come in and **** all over it...thanks!" After that I always tried to be nice to the Newbies, since I knew EXACTLY what they were going though. Its not our fault if you didn't like the career you chose...you just don't have to take it out on the newbies....their no bodies just like you and I!

 

[ourkid2000]

At 35, I dunno if I qualify as an old-timer. Anyways, I'm VERY easy to please. All I ask for is to be treated as a professional.

But what kills me is the money that people spend to become Aircraft Mechanics and then to come out and be treated as utter low-lives. I've worked with so many bright young people that work their asses off only to be treated like dogs. Any other company would be lucky to have these people.

It costs almost 30,000 dollars in tuition alone to do the course here in Nova Scotia. Why would you do this when you could do another trade for 1/8th the cost and make the same kind of money? After your 2 or 3 years of aircraft maintenance school and you graduate, you're just an apprentice for 2 years making what......15-16 an hour? Write your exams, get your log book approved and get your license and now what are you making? 22-23 an hour? Have you factored in the costs of your tools at this point? Sure, you'll probably always have a job......but you'll be working in the downward death spiral of aircraft maintenance organizations where you'll never see any further employment gains. You'll work for probably 4-5 different companies! Hell, I've only been in the business 10 years now and I've already worked for 5 and have been laid off from all of them. Good luck with a pension, most places I've worked for don't even have one.

Don't get me wrong, I love the job.......I really enjoy the satisfaction and the challenge but I have very little regard for the people we have to work for.

In the end, the whole reason I suggest people do not do this career is the cost & time of your training. You're too skilled and too valuable for these employers. What you put in does not equal what you get out of it, plain and simple.

 

[Outlawmws]

At 35, I dunno if I qualify as an old-timer. Anyways, I'm VERY easy to please. All I ask for is to be treated as a professional.

But what kills me is the money that people spend to become Aircraft Mechanics and then to come out and be treated as utter low-lives. I've worked with so many bright young people that work their asses off only to be treated like dogs. Any other company would be lucky to have these people.

It costs almost 30,000 dollars in tuition alone to do the course here in Nova Scotia. Why would you do this when you could do another trade for 1/8th the cost and make the same kind of money? After your 2 or 3 years of aircraft maintenance school and you graduate, you're just an apprentice for 2 years making what......15-16 an hour? Write your exams, get your log book approved and get your license and now what are you making? 22-23 an hour? Have you factored in the costs of your tools at this point? Sure, you'll probably always have a job......but you'll be working in the downward death spiral of aircraft maintenance organizations where you'll never see any further employment gains. You'll work for probably 4-5 different companies! Hell, I've only been in the business 10 years now and I've already worked for 5 and have been laid off from all of them. Good luck with a pension, most places I've worked for don't even have one.

Don't get me wrong, I love the job.......I really enjoy the satisfaction and the challenge but I have very little regard for the people we have to work for.

In the end, the whole reason I suggest people do not do this career is the cost & time of your training. You're too skilled and too valuable for these employers. What you put in does not equal what you get out of it, plain and simple.

There are lots of careers that give satisfaction and challenges. This and your other posts suggest maybe you need to look into a different career...

 

[ZRX61]

It costs almost 30,000 dollars in tuition alone to do the course here in Nova Scotia.

Less than $1500 at community colleges in Califailure...

 

[ZRX61]

Damn that is a nice little ratchet driver set. Too bad I'm south of the border...

Horrible fright sell the same one...

 

[HandyManny]

Wow, you seriously meant a Ford wrench, (Albeit a bit larger...)

What about the threads where no adjustable wrenches were allowed?

And how much do they get for a new one these days? (I didn't even know they were still made. I saw a small one chrome plated yesterday at a flea market, I'd never seen one plated before...)

Don't listen to the guys who say adjustables are not allowed. Trust me. You'll find out that in the real world a couple good adjustable wrenches certainly have their rightful place in the tool box of any mechanic (aircraft, automotive, rail, and marine).

 

[ourkid2000]

There are lots of careers that give satisfaction and challenges. This and your other posts suggest maybe you need to look into a different career...

You are absolutely right.....

I am of the "if you don't like your job, then do something about it" mind.

 

[ourkid2000]

Less than $1500 at community colleges in Califailure...

Not in Canada....

Take a look at the tuitions at the various colleges here:
NSCC
SAIT
Canadore college

It's disgusting

 

[HandyManny]

You are absolutely right.....

I am of the "if you don't like your job, then do something about it" mind.

Okay, that may be right and may even sound better on an internet forum, but in reality sometimes it's a lot different and much easier said than done. Sure, a lot easier here in this country (USA) than it is in other countries. Just go to Germany for example and read their equivelent of our Private Pilots manual. They have the first chapter dedicated to advising the reader who should even become a pilot. Over there certain careers and type of work are only reserved for and encouraged by the upper class, and it's very difficult to switch careers over there. Other countries are very "Class" structure when it comes to various career paths. Not at all that way here, but you have to decide if since you've invested years and money in what you do today, is it really feasable to switch careers or even jobs on a whim??? Sure, here, anyone can do it. But is it feasable? Sometimes you just have to grin and bare it for a while. Just because someone vents doesn't mean they're miserable, maybe just crappy for them at the moment.

 

[Outlawmws]

Don't listen to the guys who say adjustables are not allowed. Trust me. You'll find out that in the real world a couple good adjustable wrenches certainly have their rightful place in the tool box of any mechanic (aircraft, automotive, rail, and marine).

Its been pretty well documented that a few places where aircraft are worked on do not allow adjustable wrenches, on top of being very careful about lost tools. (Which for aircraft is a good thing)

And certainly I don't lack for adjustable wrenches (And Vice Grips for that matter ) in my tools. Not my go to tools for nuts and bolts certainly, but invaluable none the less.

 

[HandyManny]

Its been pretty well documented that a few places where aircraft are worked on do not allow adjustable wrenches, on top of being very careful about lost tools. (Which for aircraft is a good thing)
.

Yeah, maybe true, but don't outlaws usually break all the rules? Kidding kidding!!

There is also a reason why many tools are high visibility or painted red or florecent colors. In fact there is a count that is made of tools entering an aircraft and after finishing. All tools (including people) need to be accounted for when complete.

 

[Outlawmws]

Yeah, maybe true, but don't outlaws usually break all the rules? Kidding kidding!!

There is also a reason why many tools are high visibility or painted red or florecent colors. In fact there is a count that is made of tools entering an aircraft and after finishing. All tools (including people) need to be accounted for when complete.

Actually I didn't decide to become an Outlaw, I was outlawed. (Well my car was...)

Short version. I was building a new car for a new dirt track (previously we had had a pavement track local) and when the then track champion heard about it and saw some pics of it under construction, he went to the sanctioning people and they all looked the pics over. They changed one key rule, and it was outlawed. Why the rule change? "If that car shows up I won't race..." Did I mention I had pit crewed for the guy part of a year?

True story.

 

[ourkid2000]

Its been pretty well documented that a few places where aircraft are worked on do not allow adjustable wrenches, on top of being very careful about lost tools. (Which for aircraft is a good thing)

And certainly I don't lack for adjustable wrenches (And Vice Grips for that matter ) in my tools. Not my go to tools for nuts and bolts certainly, but invaluable none the less.

A few.....maybe. Probably more in the manufacturing business and maybe the military.

Every company I've ever worked for allowed adjustables. I've never heard of a place that did not allow certain tools (other than torches maybe).

Tool control, as well, is completely up to the tech......it is not enforced. It was enforced when I worked for the military, but never in the civilian world.

 

[HandyManny]

A few.....maybe. Probably more in the manufacturing business and maybe the military.

Every company I've ever worked for allowed adjustables. I've never heard of a place that did not allow certain tools (other than torches maybe).

Tool control, as well, is completely up to the tech......it is not enforced. It was enforced when I worked for the military, but never in the civilian world.

The places I wrenched also allowed them, but that was back in the mid to late 1950's. ISO and DO200 have implimented certain rules these days.

 

[kippieland]

At 35, I dunno if I qualify as an old-timer. Anyways, I'm VERY easy to please. All I ask for is to be treated as a professional.

But what kills me is the money that people spend to become Aircraft Mechanics and then to come out and be treated as utter low-lives. I've worked with so many bright young people that work their asses off only to be treated like dogs. Any other company would be lucky to have these people.

It costs almost 30,000 dollars in tuition alone to do the course here in Nova Scotia. Why would you do this when you could do another trade for 1/8th the cost and make the same kind of money? After your 2 or 3 years of aircraft maintenance school and you graduate, you're just an apprentice for 2 years making what......15-16 an hour? Write your exams, get your log book approved and get your license and now what are you making? 22-23 an hour? Have you factored in the costs of your tools at this point? Sure, you'll probably always have a job......but you'll be working in the downward death spiral of aircraft maintenance organizations where you'll never see any further employment gains. You'll work for probably 4-5 different companies! Hell, I've only been in the business 10 years now and I've already worked for 5 and have been laid off from all of them. Good luck with a pension, most places I've worked for don't even have one.

Don't get me wrong, I love the job.......I really enjoy the satisfaction and the challenge but I have very little regard for the people we have to work for.

In the end, the whole reason I suggest people do not do this career is the cost & time of your training. You're too skilled and too valuable for these employers. What you put in does not equal what you get out of it, plain and simple.

Professionalism in the airlines industry..HA! That NEVER happened during my time at the largest northwest U.S. airline(AS...see how many of you guys get what code that is??) I hear what you are saying, but you could also call teachers and educators as fools for going into a field where they work 60-70hrs and only get paid for half of it. They do it because they have a passion or a dream to do it. By the way, I was no mechanic during my time....I was a ramper....talk about zero respect or pay! I just think your points while understandable come across as harsh for someone who is just graduating after working their butts off in school. Have you thought of moving to cars? I have know a tons of ex-aircraft mechanics that get jobs at Mercedes and BMW dealer because of their advanced training. Just a thought.

 

[kippieland]

Just because someone vents doesn't mean they're miserable, maybe just crappy for them at the moment.

Good point. I have just heard WAY to much of that kind of talk in my time in the Airline industry. Found it to be the norm rather then the exception!

 

[tyndall]

It costs almost 30,000 dollars in tuition alone to do the course here in Nova Scotia.

Then you got screwed. Stevenson is regarded as one of the best schools in the country and it's only $8000. Even with books and basic tools its still under $10,000. Unless you are an international student, then it's close to $18,000.

After your 2 or 3 years of aircraft maintenance school and you graduate, you're just an apprentice for 2 years making what......15-16 an hour? Write your exams, get your log book approved and get your license and now what are you making? 22-23 an hour? Have you factored in the costs of your tools at this point?

I could replace all my tools, including the box for under four grand. It's not that expensive job to get into. It does however, have low wages. This is not a surprise to anyone getting into this. You do it because you like airplanes, not to get rich. It could also be worse, like pilots who spend forty grand to get a job working the ramp for a year or two.

Less than $1500 at community colleges in Califailure...

Canada does not have an equivalent to the crackerjack box A&P. The closest is A&P/IA.

 

[Stuntmonkey]

My friend here in Kelowna is an AME-M, working for a helicopter company. Absolutely loves his job, makes incredibly good money (and I mean whoa, he makes rival to what I do on the oilsands) and gets some sweet gigs.

He's a skier, and the helos go out to remote lodges for the week with rich folk, he goes too. Lucky *******.

 

[ourkid2000]

Professionalism in the airlines industry..HA! That NEVER happened during my time at the largest northwest U.S. airline(AS...see how many of you guys get what code that is??) I hear what you are saying, but you could also call teachers and educators as fools for going into a field where they work 60-70hrs and only get paid for half of it. They do it because they have a passion or a dream to do it. By the way, I was no mechanic during my time....I was a ramper....talk about zero respect or pay! I just think your points while understandable come across as harsh for someone who is just graduating after working their butts off in school. Have you thought of moving to cars? I have know a tons of ex-aircraft mechanics that get jobs at Mercedes and BMW dealer because of their advanced training. Just a thought.

I was a ramp-rat for 5 years with Air Canada and if I had my time back I wouldn't have left that job. We were treated better than any of my jobs as a technician at any airline

 

[kippieland]

I was a ramp-rat for 5 years with Air Canada and if I had my time back I wouldn't have left that job. We were treated better than any of my jobs as a technician at any airline

Unfortunatley, that was not my experience. 2 years after I left they outsourced the ramp (550 employees...largest station) to a contractor. Went from 50 misconnected bags to 500 in one day. Got love big business.

 

[kippieland]

Canada does not have an equivalent to the crackerjack box A&P. The closest is A&P/IA.

You mean Canada has standards!

 

[not-required]

Unfortunatley, that was not my experience. 2 years after I left they outsourced the ramp (550 employees...largest station) to a contractor. Went from 50 misconnected bags to 500 in one day. Got love big business.

Im working ramp for the past two years and cant wait for the day I quit. We are defiantly treated like ****. I just waiting for the right opportunity it get into the automotive field and do something I enjoy.

 

[ourkid2000]

You mean Canada has standards!

Not sure how it works in the USA.......here's a quick rundown of Canada's system.

In Canada, to hold an AME-M license (mechanic), you have to go to a Transport Canada (Canada's FAA) accredited school. The program is usually 2 years and quite expensive (the one I did was 3 years) and after that you have to apprentice on civilian aircraft for an additional 2 years. During this time you have to get a Transport Canada AME Logbook filled out for every task you perform and you have to get a previously licensed AME to sign the tasks in your book as you complete them.

Once you have done all this, you have to get letters from your employers stating what jobs you have held in the industry and submit those. After all that is done, you write your Transport exams and if you pass.....you get your license.

But it's not over at this point. Your company has to grant you an ACA (aircraft certifying authority) before you can sign out work performed on the aircraft. In order to hold an ACA you will have to complete an endorsement course on each aircraft type before you can sign out the work performed. It is usually the reluctance on the part of the employers to grant endorsement courses to AME's that cause 75% of the friction between employers & employees at the places I've worked at.

Personally, I hold an AME-E license (which is the Avionics rating) and an AME-M license.

 

[Frankstools]

Get their torque adapters and a couple torque wrenches (in lbs) 10 to 3000 range

 

[kippieland]

Im working ramp for the past two years and cant wait for the day I quit. We are defiantly treated like ****. I just waiting for the right opportunity it get into the automotive field and do something I enjoy.

Hope you don't work for American! To think of all those guys that busted their butts then retire, then the Airline goes bankrupt and they loose half of their pension...ain't right! I have been out for 8 yrs....I do miss my friends and the team environment....but I HATED the company. I try like hell not to fly with them to this day. Once I ran into the then CEO in the terminal...he looked like he was afraid I was going to mug him or something...his policies did have tendancy to go over poorly. Put I still know lot's of A & P guys that love the job..but hate the company!

 

[ZRX61]

Hope you don't work for American! To think of all those guys that busted their butts then retire, then the Airline goes bankrupt and they loose half of their pension...ain't right!

Guy I know worked for TWA for decades... after the dust settled his pension works out to $60/month....

 

[ZRX61]

Canada does not have an equivalent to the crackerjack box A&P. The closest is A&P/IA.

It's still an FAA license you fucktard.

 

[kippieland]

It's still an FAA license you fucktard.

Thats funny right there!

 

[kippieland]

Guy I know worked for TWA for decades... after the dust settled his pension works out to $60/month....

"Thank you for your years of service...know you have to work until you die!" Sad...sad! Gotta love big business.

 

[Outlawmws]

Horrible fright sell the same one...

Could not find it on their Web site, nor in their store (Walked there yesterday, nothing).

BTW the OP was asking about tools, not career advise. Any chance of this thread getting back on track?

 

[kippieland]

One tool advise...a good flash light for night checks.

 

[tyndall]

It's still an FAA license you fucktard.

So we know how you got yours. Thanks for clearing that up.

More than half the US pilots I know have a basic A&P just so they can keep their POS planes in the air. Most shouldn't be allowed near a screwdriver. But hey, getting the A&P was cheaper than getting it fixed properly. Not many take it seriously enough to get an IA.