30x40 Pole Barn in a Michigan winter - It has begun!

[Cheap5.0]

The concrete guy came out Tuesday and level the area, then back filled with about 20 yds of sand. We said it looks like we have great soil for concrete, mostly sand with a little bit of gravel mixed in.

I told a few friends (who will be building pole barns soon) that i would document everything i could with pictures. So for those of you have who built a few of these, this may be a bit boring. For everyone else, please ask if you have any questions or comments otherwise...this is my first time!

So far im under budget! He quoted me $250 to do the work, but becaue he didnt have to do much digging he got done much quicker. I ended up paying $150 for the work that day! I looked into renting a bob cat and having a friend run it and it would have been over $300!

I am working on getting the holes done this week(end) and hopefully have them inspected by monday so we can get started next week.

The kit will be here next monday, hopefully my yard we harden up enough with this cold weather that the semi can get into my back yard.

 

[half_full]

Looks to be cold for a few days. Should help the ground firm up. Sure will be nice to have an inside place when the ground turns white.

 

[pauls340]

Great size, wish i went larger (24x26). I live here in Michigan also and I would suggest strongly to go to Pt Huron Bldg Supply and order Vapor Lock 20/20 Admixture for your batch plant concrete. If you don't want to use an admix, order some Vapor Lock 5/5 and spray it on post placement. All your moisture issues will go away. My three year old slab has zero moisture problems from day one....and it's cheap considering the total cost of your project. P.S., if the guys at Pt Huron look at you like deer in the headlights, don't worry, it's just catching on here in Michigan. You could always pm me here, Good luck

 

[Cheap5.0]

Looks to be cold for a few days. Should help the ground firm up. Sure will be nice to have an inside place when the ground turns white.

Agreed. My current mechanical abode has a few holes in the roof, so this will be a big upgrade

Great size, wish i went larger (24x26). I live here in Michigan also and I would suggest strongly to go to Pt Huron Bldg Supply and order Vapor Lock 20/20 Admixture for your batch plant concrete. If you don't want to use an admix, order some Vapor Lock 5/5 and spray it on post placement. All your moisture issues will go away. My three year old slab has zero moisture problems from day one....and it's cheap considering the total cost of your project. P.S., if the guys at Pt Huron look at you like deer in the headlights, don't worry, it's just catching on here in Michigan. You could always pm me here, Good luck

Thanks, im about an hour from PH. Would any redimix place be able to do this, or is it just the guys in PH doing it now?

What kind of moisture issues would i be looking at without it?

 

[1Black80Z]

Nice! Very much what i'm looking into building! What's the estimated cost in your area for this project dried in w/concrete? Thanks

 

[Cheap5.0]

Nice! Very much what i'm looking into building! What's the estimated cost in your area for this project dried in w/concrete? Thanks

I did have an accurate number in a thread here awhile back, i think it was about $11,500.

Thats with me building it (with the aid of a neighbor and family/friends) and hiring a pro to do the concrete. That does not include electrical, water, heating, etc....just the building and the concrete.

From what i have seen, concrete prices here in MI are way below the average so my $2.25/ft quote will probably seem way low to someone who lives in a bustling part of the US.

 

[bazzateer]

this is my first time!

Ooh! A garage virgin!

 

[Cheap5.0]

Ooh! A garage virgin!

And since i own the property, and i am wayyy upside down on it...it will be my first and most likely my last

I may add onto it down the road. My grandpa and I share a passion for wood working. I have the space and he as the tools, so one day we will combine our assets to have a good ole time!

 

[cyamaha2007]

Watch the temps when you pour the concrete for post footers. You can buy calcium to add to the quick creete. Also you can cover the hole with plastic and then some hay to insulate it. Freezing temps can ruin concrete

 

[pauls340]

Any Redimix concrete batch plant can add an admix. Very simple, order Vapor Lock from Pt H Bldg Sply , get it to your batch plant and they will do the rest. VL will make it feel like the finishers are troweling on a gel surface. Any slab of concrete onthe globe will reach 100% relative humidity under that slab. There is approx. 32 gal of water used to make and place a cu yd (4" thick, 81 sqft)of concrete; 15 of those gallons are used to make concrete, leaving 17 gal of Free Water to screwup the concrete. Vapor Lock added to the mix looks for that free water and turns it into additional CSH gel. Calcium Silicate Hydrate is what makes concrete stronger. VL vapor proofs that slab and along the way it waterproofs it. It never wears off. Dry shrinkage cracking doesn't happen and laitence on the surface won't be there. If ever you're in the Rochester Hills area, you can come see my floor. PM me and we can figure out how much it will take.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Hopefully you can get this thing done before the snow gets serious.

 

[Cheap5.0]

Watch the temps when you pour the concrete for post footers. You can buy calcium to add to the quick creete. Also you can cover the hole with plastic and then some hay to insulate it. Freezing temps can ruin concrete

Thanks for the tip, i didnt think about the footings and the temps!

Any Redimix concrete batch plant can add an admix. Very simple, order Vapor Lock from Pt H Bldg Sply , get it to your batch plant and they will do the rest. VL will make it feel like the finishers are troweling on a gel surface. Any slab of concrete onthe globe will reach 100% relative humidity under that slab. There is approx. 32 gal of water used to make and place a cu yd (4" thick, 81 sqft)of concrete; 15 of those gallons are used to make concrete, leaving 17 gal of Free Water to screwup the concrete. Vapor Lock added to the mix looks for that free water and turns it into additional CSH gel. Calcium Silicate Hydrate is what makes concrete stronger. VL vapor proofs that slab and along the way it waterproofs it. It never wears off. Dry shrinkage cracking doesn't happen and laitence on the surface won't be there. If ever you're in the Rochester Hills area, you can come see my floor. PM me and we can figure out how much it will take.

Thanks, sounds like great stuff. I will be looking into this I work about 15 minuntes from Rochester, id love to come buy.

Hopefully you can get this thing done before the snow gets serious.

I hope so as well. My dad was saying with my luck ill get 10" of snow on tuesday, and then freezing rain on wenesday.

I talked with my (very nice) neighbor yesterday and he said once the poles are in and set it will fly by. I hope he is right!

 

[Cheap5.0]

I stopped by the township office today to get started on the permiting process. They are closed.

mon-wen 9:30-3:30 and Thur 9:30-5. When did that happen? lol....well maybe monday before work i can get this started.

Also a good bit of news, the truck driver dropping the kit off called today and said he would be here a day early. So sunday he thinks around 2 pm it will be here!

 

[joes169]

Any Redimix concrete batch plant can add an admix. Very simple, order Vapor Lock from Pt H Bldg Sply , get it to your batch plant and they will do the rest. VL will make it feel like the finishers are troweling on a gel surface. Any slab of concrete onthe globe will reach 100% relative humidity under that slab. There is approx. 32 gal of water used to make and place a cu yd (4" thick, 81 sqft)of concrete; 15 of those gallons are used to make concrete, leaving 17 gal of Free Water to screwup the concrete. Vapor Lock added to the mix looks for that free water and turns it into additional CSH gel. Calcium Silicate Hydrate is what makes concrete stronger. VL vapor proofs that slab and along the way it waterproofs it. It never wears off. Dry shrinkage cracking doesn't happen and laitence on the surface won't be there. If ever you're in the Rochester Hills area, you can come see my floor. PM me and we can figure out how much it will take.

Not to get too technical, but it takes about 1 gallon of water per cubic foot, or about 27 gallons of water, to hydrate concrete. Every gallon above that will be about an inch gain in slump, so a mix with a 5" slump should have about 31-32 gallons of water.

Rather than worry about adding an admix (that your redi-mix supplier will likely frown upon, and at the minimum make you sign a release to relieve them of ANY future warranty) to serve as some kind of vapor barrier, I'd simply place a physical vapor barrier under the slab.

 

[NUTTSGT]

BTW, you want straw for insulation, not hay.

 

[pauls340]

Oh, by the way Cheap5.0, we always suggest you still use a poly vapor barrier even when using an admix or sprayon sealer....you can't control the concrete guy stepping on the poly and putting holes in it.

 

[Cheap5.0]

BTW, you want straw for insulation, not hay.

Oh, by the way Cheap5.0, we always suggest you still use a poly vapor barrier even when using an admix or sprayon sealer....you can't control the concrete guy stepping on the poly and putting holes in it.

Good stuff guys, its going to be hard to go wrong with help like this

I got the lumber today! The driver was Doug, coming straight from Graber in Indiana. Nice guy, and wow could he put his rig exactly where he wanted it. I was a bit worried about getting it down the driveway, i was not 100% sure it would fit.

Doug came in on his first try, with about 2 ft to spare on each side of flat bed. Once he got in the drive way, getting in the yard was a breeze. It took about 1 hour to unload everything, and he was very good about placement. Trusses on one end, metal siding/roofing on the side and the poles/concrete bags right on the corner of the build site.

I do have a few gripes with the quality of lumber that showed up. I have not tore into yet, but from what i can see on the outside of the bunks is not good. Most of the boards are good, but at least one of the truss carriers has a 1"x12" chunk missing out of the end. Some of the 2x4 purlins have the same problems, and there is atleast one 2x6 with a good sized crack starting from the edge in the middle running down the length of the board.

My entry door also has a dent in it about the size of a fist. Its very shallow, and im sure ill do worse to it within a few years...but thats not the point. All of my gripes were noted by Doug before he left, and i must say it was not his fault. Whoever loaded the truck/assembled the kit should have culled that stuff before it ever left the plant.

Aside from those few things, im happy. The door is my biggest gripe, ill try to get a hold of Mike Monday and see what ideas he has to remedy this.

Next up, i gotta get in the town hall and get that hold depth permit process started! Those crazy hours wont help, but ill get in there.

Pics to come tomorrow when i get time at work.

 

[RPH]

Mike will work with you on this. There was a lot of extra lumber in my kit so take a good look. It might some of the pieces used to hold things together while building.

 

[Fordman7795]

Good luck with your garage, cant wait for more pictures.

 

[Cheap5.0]

Mike will work with you on this. There was a lot of extra lumber in my kit so take a good look. It might some of the pieces used to hold things together while building.

Thats what i figured. I might have just seen the extra lumber, i would expect that to be "B" grade stuff.

Mike so far has been a great guy to deal with. The truck driver said he has delivered about 200 kits, and that DIYpolebarn has always been the cheapest. It was good to hear from someone who knows lol.

Good luck with your garage, cant wait for more pictures.

Thanks! I had a busy day at work, so no pics yet.

I stopped by the CCA today to get the permit started, $204 later....

This is my first time doing anything with the construction code authority, so maybe thats just how it is. But there was a guy in there dropping off some truss spec sheets for a household addition, and he paid $84 for something to do with his septic and detached garage.

wtf. Does $204 seem steep to anyone else or am i just being a baby?

 

[cyamaha2007]

Mike has bent over backwards to correct the problems in my kit. I had some problems with my wainscotting and a few pieces of metal. The kit came with a ton of extra 2x4x16 i was supprised. The only thing i didnt have enough of was nails and concrete. I bet ive put way more nails than needed. The trusses were fair in my book and 2 of mine required adding a 2x6 to sister up the side. If i didnt i was left with a 3/4 in nailing surface. All my lumber says grade 1 on it.

 

[Cheap5.0]

I have not got a hold of mike yet, as im still waiting on the permit and have not dug into my stack of lumber I dont expect anything to be worse than what i see, and if it is its a minimal amount of money to replace it.

I got a chance to upload the video from the unloading phase, its just the fork truck coming off the flat bed...but i thought it was cool

More pics to come in a bit....

 

[Cheap5.0]

Not much to these lol...i had to ask the driver if "thats all of it?".

 

[NUTTSGT]

"thats all of it?".

It's amazing what can be built out of a small pile of material.

 

[Cheap5.0]

"thats all of it?".

It's amazing what can be built out of a small pile of material.

lol i guess so! I was a bit nervous about getting this together, but now that i see how few things there are to screw up im not so worried

 

[cyamaha2007]

put that trim in the house... lol it will rust and it will show. The shrink wrap holds water well

 

[DoyleDee]

It is amazing on what little it takes to build a shop (at least the skin). I had my shop on two 16' trailer loads.... I sure did have a lot of 2x6's and 2x4's on it though.
It should come together pretty fast with a crew on it. It took me about a month and a half to get mine dried in and lockable.

 

[wfopete]

It took three Mexican (seriously) workers two days to build my 30x50 pole barn. They showed up with one P/U and a flatbed truck full of steel and lumber. Made thier own saw horses and built the trusses on site. They cheated by using a powered pole hole auger though.

Yes, it's still standing.

 

[Cheap5.0]

put that trim in the house... lol it will rust and it will show. The shrink wrap holds water well

I wondered....the documentation said its good for up to two weeks outside, and thats what the driver said...but id rather play it safe and listen to someone who knows. Its coming in tomorrow.

It is amazing on what little it takes to build a shop (at least the skin). I had my shop on two 16' trailer loads.... I sure did have a lot of 2x6's and 2x4's on it though.
It should come together pretty fast with a crew on it. It took me about a month and a half to get mine dried in and lockable.

Not bad! Im hoping to have this done by new years.

It took three Mexican (seriously) workers two days to build my 30x50 pole barn. They showed up with one P/U and a flatbed truck full of steel and lumber. Made thier own saw horses and built the trusses on site. They cheated by using a powered pole hole auger though.

Yes, it's still standing.

Nice! I have seen the amish throw these together in 2 days, sometimes 1 if its a 24x32 or smaller. Amazing how quick they work.

I got my permit finally! Two changes have to be made, ones a ****** and the other is no big deal. The first is i am required to use 2x12 for the truss carriers (currently have 2x10s). The second is the holes have to be 16" diameter instead of 12".

Aside from that, im good to go. Holes go in Saturday, and i will be calling tomorrow to see how soon i can get it inspected so we can drop some poles in.

Im a bit hung up on if i should pour the concrete in the holes, let it setup then put the poles on top of the concrete or imbed the poles with the concrete. Help please?

The kits instructions show it sitting on top of the concrete, but the two books ive read (I know, i know...books!) and my dad said that sounds backwards. But neither of us of any real hands on here.

 

[betterbillt]

I used to work for Agway building company. They did a study on post holes and the conclusion they came up was that a pad at the bottom of the hole was better than filling the whole hole with concrete. Now exceptions to that were the local codes. But if we could we had concrete pads delivered that fit the hole we were drilling. We would use a spoon shovel to flatten the hole and drop the pad in and tamp it. If we had to fill the whole hole we'd still use the pads and have a concrete truck come in and fill them after setting the posts. That was a pain because you couldn't bump anything or they would all move.

It it was my building I'd put a pad in the bottom and back fill it with the native soil. Gravel will just allow the water to stay in the hole unless you have good perking soil.

 

[RPH]

Ran 1" steel rods through my posts for the cement to hang onto. Pour cement around the posts but placed gravel in the bottom of the hole. Also my inspector didn't care about the diameter of the hole at the top but the bottom had to be 20" and that had to go up 20". Pain in the ****. Get a power auger or hire a guy with the tractor to do it.
Most important is getting the lines and batter boards laid out right. If you wrong here it goes down hill from there quick.
Did you get the post wrap or the condoms for the posts?

 

[santagary]

I used to work for Agway building company. They did a study on post holes and the conclusion they came up was that a pad at the bottom of the hole was better than filling the whole hole with concrete. Now exceptions to that were the local codes. But if we could we had concrete pads delivered that fit the hole we were drilling. We would use a spoon shovel to flatten the hole and drop the pad in and tamp it. If we had to fill the whole hole we'd still use the pads and have a concrete truck come in and fill them after setting the posts. That was a pain because you couldn't bump anything or they would all move.

It it was my building I'd put a pad in the bottom and back fill it with the native soil. Gravel will just allow the water to stay in the hole unless you have good perking soil.

Cleary builders used concrete discs in the bottom of the holes for my 60 x 80 barn.

 

[Cheap5.0]

I used to work for Agway building company. They did a study on post holes and the conclusion they came up was that a pad at the bottom of the hole was better than filling the whole hole with concrete. Now exceptions to that were the local codes. But if we could we had concrete pads delivered that fit the hole we were drilling. We would use a spoon shovel to flatten the hole and drop the pad in and tamp it. If we had to fill the whole hole we'd still use the pads and have a concrete truck come in and fill them after setting the posts. That was a pain because you couldn't bump anything or they would all move.

It it was my building I'd put a pad in the bottom and back fill it with the native soil. Gravel will just allow the water to stay in the hole unless you have good perking soil.

Thanks, ill stick to the directions per the kit supplier.

Ran 1" steel rods through my posts for the cement to hang onto. Pour cement around the posts but placed gravel in the bottom of the hole. Also my inspector didn't care about the diameter of the hole at the top but the bottom had to be 20" and that had to go up 20". Pain in the ****. Get a power auger or hire a guy with the tractor to do it.
Most important is getting the lines and batter boards laid out right. If you wrong here it goes down hill from there quick.
Did you get the post wrap or the condoms for the posts?

No post wraps, i was told its a marginal benefit if any at all.

 

[cyamaha2007]

Its alot of quickcrete to mix but it will pay off getting the post footer all level with each other. That way one post isnt too low or way to tall. I built a water level and used it to get the footers level in space. Ive been told to stain or paint the end grain of the posts that sit in the ground so i did who knows if it will help. I also had a friend borrow a transit from work after i had the four corner posts up we marked a " absolute zero" to base and check every measurement. I made spacer blocks to set the spacing for the girts and purlins kinda like a go no go gauge.

 

[Cheap5.0]

Its alot of quickcrete to mix but it will pay off getting the post footer all level with each other. That way one post isnt too low or way to tall. I built a water level and used it to get the footers level in space. Ive been told to stain or paint the end grain of the posts that sit in the ground so i did who knows if it will help. I also had a friend borrow a transit from work after i had the four corner posts up we marked a " absolute zero" to base and check every measurement. I made spacer blocks to set the spacing for the girts and purlins kinda like a go no go gauge.

Lots of good ideas man, thanks a ton! If you were nearby id get you some jack for the help

 

[Cheap5.0]

Day 1 of construction. Im a bit busy (christmas part tomorrow night, im playing catch up from working on the barn all day) so ill just throw some random notes/thoughts here and answer questions/post pics either this weekend or monday.

-Digging 19 holes, 18" diameter down 48" took a hair under 2 hours. Cost = $90 using a dingo with auger.

A dingo is this thing:

-My brains of the operation (neighbor) and labor (his son in law) are awesome. You never know how people are to work with before hand, these guys are cool operators. Cost = $200. Thats half upfront, the other half when we are done.

-Its amazing how much muscling you can do to get the poles in line

We started the day around 9, started digging around 10 and finished around 3:30. In that time we dug all the holes, then had to remove about 10" of lose soil from the bottom of each hole with a post hole digger. We got all the poles in place, squared the building/corner poles then we put up the north side girts & rat board and started on the east side rat board before we had to stop for the day.

He said he expects to have the east and south side walls finished tomorrow. The local CCA was nice enough to let us start building without a hole inspection, they said just leave 3 holes open and that will be enough. So we left the west wall open for now, holes empty and ready. Once the inspection is done, that wall goes up and we are moving right onto trusses. Its moving very quickly, im quite surprised!

Thats everyone for the help!

 

[trbomax]

These two guys are putting up the whole building for $400????

 

[Cheap5.0]

These two guys are putting up the whole building for $400????

Im doing the day labor as well

And yeah, they are awesome. Hands down amazing neighbor. I helped him side his house and hang cabinets in his kitchen this summer. Then i helped him unload some gangly tools from a trailer, then i got to talking and he offered to help me with this for a payback + cash.

 

[Cheap5.0]

We put in another 3 hours today and finished the girts and posts. The inspector will be out tomorrow, then if everything passes we will throw up the last wall sometime this week.

Some notes:

The holes for the poles dont have to be dead on. I spent countless nights trying to reserach and figure out the best way to center each hole and get it lined up perfectly.

When the time came to put the holes in, my neighbor marked the first corner then i started drilling. He went ahead and marked the corners, then the posts in between simply by eye balling it...and they were all close enough. Under 10 minutes to mark the holes, and under 2 hours to drill. We only had one hole that needed "adjustment" which was easy with a spade and a post hole digger. Nothing but 2-3 minutes of work.

The stringers/girts (whatever you like) again are easy. Just make sure no joints overlap (one above the other), and they are 2 ft apart. This may be different for some kits/areas i dont know...but its all around 2 ft.

Really we have not done anything yet that would be difficult. Climbing 2x4's 5-6 ft up and trying to start a nail is not fun, but it goes quick. Some tools i would like to have now that i have done it:


Scaffold
California framing hammer (with the nail holder thing) <---actually have this, and it saved a ton of time on the high girts.
Post hold digger <---life saver for cleaning holes
Circular saw

Thats about it. Pics to come tomorrow.

 

[RPH]

More pic's. Keep up the good work.