Fun and Games ... PEX and Rodents

[nkachur]

Well I mentioned this on my build thread but I figured it deserved a thread of it's own.

About a mounth ago me and the wife started geting woke up in the middle of the night by strange noises coming from the wall in our bedroom. The noise seemed to be coming from the wall where the pluming pipes for our washing machine run.

While I was at work one day the wife pulled out the washing machine to see what was going on. She heard a hissing noise so decided it was a job for me. I got home and took a look and decovered a water leak from a piece of pex water pipe running underneath the floor sheathing. We had suspected that we had a little friend visiting us in the middle of the night and the little ****** had decided to eat my water pipe. (see pictures below)

This is a picture of the piece of tube that I removed from under the house.

and this is a close-up of the damage.

I fixed the plumbing, replaced the insulation and set up a peanut butter feast for my little friend.

Never saw or heard anything for like 2 weeks.

Fast forward to last night.

We heard scratching in the wall fron the same place. I am going to check hat out once I am done chapter 2 of the story here.

This morning I walk to the kitchen and step in a puddle... 6:00 in the morning and I get to step in the dogs water <grrrrrrr> only to find out that it isn't the dogs water. the kitchen is a giant puddle. Check under the sink and hear hissing... "Not Again" The water line to my dishwasher is leakingand the little ***** left me some little pellets too. I am going to take him out and what a party I am going to have when it is all over.

 

[larryv]

That is scary, i have pex running all thru my new home. I hope u get the little *******!

 

[toyotadriver]

Is that PEX or is it polybutylene? I could definately be wrong but I haven't seen PEX that looks like that. The fittings look like PEX but the pipe looks like polybutylene.

 

[kbs2244]

What ever it is, it isn't tooth proof!
I wonder if the code approval people ever considered this possibility?

But then, if I remember correctly, squirrels, were more than once, the reason for electric black outs through out downtown Chicago.
Big bucks black outs.
I don’t know how they solved it.

 

[Will67]

Man that *****!
When I did plumbing for garage and new master bath, my plumber talked me into copper. After seeing the tooth marks On your PEX I think I made the right choice.

I think you need more than just snap-traps to get rid of your rodent problem?

 

[Al Bundy]

Wow I never considered that possibility. I was concerned about it maybe not holding up over time, but the thought of mice chewing it up never crossed my mind.

 

[rlitman]

But then, if I remember correctly, squirrels, were more than once, the reason for electric black outs through out downtown Chicago.
Big bucks black outs.
I don’t know how they solved it.

Chicago electric code required EVERYTHING to be run in EMT. Problem solved.
New York City requires armored cable for similar reasons.

 

[slip knot]

Is that PEX ? before my plumber started putting PEX in my houses I put PEX to the test. I let my dog chew on it for 3 weeks and then tested the chewed up piece for watertightness and it passed. my dog didn't chew it up but did chew the hell out of it. I'd be suprised to see a rat chewing thru the PEX. is that pex?? just askin, I need to know if I need to worry!!

 

[rabidsquirrel]

Is that PEX ? before my plumber started putting PEX in my houses I put PEX to the test. I let my dog chew on it for 3 weeks and then tested the chewed up piece for watertightness and it passed. my dog didn't chew it up but did chew the hell out of it. I'd be suprised to see a rat chewing thru the PEX. is that pex?? just askin, I need to know if I need to worry!!

I have pet rats (I know, weird), and the only thing that haven't been able to chew through is the steel on the cage. Pex doesn't look like it would stand a chance.

 

[Chris Adams]

I have pet rats (I know, weird), and the only thing that haven't been able to chew through is the steel on the cage. Pex doesn't look like it would stand a chance.

Yeah, I raised rats as a kid. Great pets, clean, smart the white ones don't bite. Ever.
But yeah, Pex would be an easy snack.

They use soy product in most modern plastics. We have squirrels here eating all the wiring out of any car or truck left near them.

Environmentally correct means edible.

 

[kbs2244]

Yeah, the squirrel problem in Chicago was not in homes or buildings.
It was in the under the downtown sidewalk Com-Ed vaults.
That is high voltage stuff.

I am an EMT man myself.
Comes from growing up in Cook County.

 

[toyotadriver]

How flexible is that pipe? It sure looks like polybutylene to me.

 

[nkachur]

Update:

- My little friend has notbeen caught yet.
- Removed the damage dishwasher pipe. It is a clear PEX product. It is manufactured by Rehau is is labled RAUPEX 1/2" PEXa as far as I can read.
- product info can be found here http://export.rehau.com/constructio...ering/raupex.-.industrial.piping.system.shtml
Here is a picture of the damage from the other day.

- the off white product I pictured before is Bow SuperPex So yes the product I am talking about and Showing is PEX. Here is a Data Sheet I found.
- http://www.bow-group.com/documents/InstallGuide/Plumbing/T-PEX-0511E.pdf

- Both of these leaks have been quite small. the actual punctures were only misting the water out and the tube never ruptured from the damage it susstained. If I actually catch the rodent I will take some pictures. I am suspecting a mouse as they seem like the post common rodents in this are.

 

[nkachur]

How flexible is that pipe? It sure looks like polybutylene to me.

It is quite flexable. Every bit as flexable as the other couple of types of pex I have worked with.

I have included some likes to the 2 types of pex I have found in the house.

Let me know if you would like more information on the pipe.

 

[ponjohn]

I once had a very serious mice issue. I knew it was problem when grilling one day and I saw a mouse running along the gutter.

I immediately called a pest guy. He put traps and poison out. It took about two weeks to kill down the several generations.

I now go around as standard maint and clean the traps ( actual traps not spring traps) and put new poison. It is is the stuff that makes them leave the house because they're thirsty.

 

[Frank The Plumber]

I have never seen a rat or mouse eat copper or galvanized. I have seen them eat lead though.

 

[Provincial]

I have never seen a rat or mouse eat copper or galvanized. I have seen them eat lead though.

Yeah, #12 shot from a .22!

 

[Frank The Plumber]

No they eat the lead service piping.

 

[nkachur]

We rented the crimper to crimp the PEX ring and got that line repaired. Now we are just waiting to see what happens next...

More repairs or dead mouse?????

 

[nkachur]

I would love to force feed feed the little ****** some lead.

 

[2drx4]

Hit craigslist or the SPCA and pick up a cat. The problem will soon be solved as long as you find one that isn't fat, lazy, and/or useless.

 

[toyotadriver]

Ok the later pics show that it's PEX. Just didn't look right in the first pics.

 

[nkachur]

the first pictures and the second batch are two different types of PEX. The first type has a black and a off white layer that is the SuperPEX the second type is a clear PEX tubing by Rheau. But both definately identify themselves as PEX.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Traps. Peanut butter on some. Cat food or tuna on others.

This what the pros use !

Also need to do a really good inspection and put 1/4" wire mesh over crack/hole bigger than the eraser on a pencil ! They are after food and warmth. You have both.

 

[RobSmith]

They stopped using that stuff in Australia for that exact reason...rodents. The classic example was a new home finished to "lock-up" Owners arrived to look after the weekend and all the ceilings were on the floor. Rats had chewed into the pex and when they got wet they went on to a new spot. Creating a sprinkler system in the ceiling. Rats like to chew to sharpen their teeth. My dads' car suffered the same fate on the rubber hoses in his cars engine bay....definitely nothing to eat there !

 

[thammel]

My supply lines are cpvc. I'm sure mice would chew that also. I've actually had nm wire gnawed by mice. No sign that they were shocked or electrocuted. I'm trying to catch moles out in the yard and all I get are mice. That's ok. I don't need rodents around.

Tom

 

[Marks74ta]

I'm a plumber in north florida and we have seen rats and squirrels eat thru copper also. When you poison them they do look for water and that is why they chew thru your pipes. Better off trapping them.

 

[RotoRoss]

Re: To catch mice

Watched a episode of "TURTLE MAN", "Call of the Wildman" from Arkansas or Kentucky on APL Animal Planet channel the other day. This episode showed him herding and catching a whole slew of rats from a basement/attic crawl space. Once he located the nest above in a ceiling crawl space, urine wet spot of nest was long term sign post of nest, he spread a sheet or a tarp over floor of the room under the wet spot, placed sprigs or boughs of Mint (from woods )(internet says spearmint oil on cotton balls is effective but pricey) around perimeter of room. Tied edges/corners of tarp to a rope and pulley system since there were a couple dozen rats in the nest. After punching thru wet spot of rat urine on the ceiling they came tumbling out onto floor which he had baited with peanut butter on bread in center of room. Disregarding the miracles of editing and television it was clear the rats clustered at center and were eating bread and shying away from Mint at perimeter, they pulled on rope of pulley system and collected almost all of the rats together. He never kills them but relocates to wooded areas that are designated sanctuaries.

His suggested solution to catching them one by one is to take a 5 gallon bucket half full of water and float a layer of corn meal on it. The mice get into it but cant get out, cornmeal smell is very attractive apparently.I say flush 'em after that. Ive seen my small mice jump around as they cross a room but think a ramp or series of smallish boxes would be more inviting than a single leap to a 5 gal rim of unknown heights and sure death and maybe also a smaller pail.
I 'm hoping that a small holey Tupperware container with the mint or moth balls will make them shy away but cant prove it yet maybe wired to bottom of intake hose or the like in the engine compartments but surely they have ruined a number of my cars

 

[darkk]

I get mice almost every fall when it starts to get cold out. I just use peanut butter on spring traps. Usually get 10-12 (whole family?) in less than a week then no more until next year. If you can reach the spot, you could also drop a few moth balls near the plumbing. I just installed around 1100 ft of pex between heating and plumbing in a new addition. ****! I have plenty of dry dog food in the cellar so they should be well fed and not need a plastic diet...hopefully!

 

[Heavy Metal Doctor]

This if great news!(yes I'm being sarcastic) I tried searching for any reason NOT to try PEX for a bathroom remodel I'm doing right now. I'm suposed to begin tiling this weekend ......During the planning, I never saw any mention of rodents chewing it. I thought the plastic was suposed to be as un-appetizing as the covering on the electrical wire....and the house is 100 year old shack that WILL have mice to point no matter what. The only time I have seen the mice chew a wire is when they where trying to expend the hole it ran through.

 

[nichboy]

A guy at work is having trouble with gophers digging under his house and chewing through his pex lines (around here they use concrete slabs) after the 3rd leak (flood) he had all his piping routed through the attic. Its rather common around here.

 

[Norcal]

That was the #1 reason I do not like PEX, as was never able to get a answer about whether rodents would chew on it or not, not fond of CSST either.....

Gimme copper for water & black iron for gas, no recalls or class action suits on those systems.

 

[Buckgnarly]

Re: To catch mice

Watched a episode of "TURTLE MAN", "Call of the Wildman" from Arkansas or Kentucky on APL Animal Planet channel the other day. This episode showed him herding and catching a whole slew of rats from a basement/attic crawl space. Once he located the nest above in a ceiling crawl space, urine wet spot of nest was long term sign post of nest, he spread a sheet or a tarp over floor of the room under the wet spot, placed sprigs or boughs of Mint (from woods )(internet says spearmint oil on cotton balls is effective but pricey) around perimeter of room. Tied edges/corners of tarp to a rope and pulley system since there were a couple dozen rats in the nest. After punching thru wet spot of rat urine on the ceiling they came tumbling out onto floor which he had baited with peanut butter on bread in center of room. Disregarding the miracles of editing and television it was clear the rats clustered at center and were eating bread and shying away from Mint at perimeter, they pulled on rope of pulley system and collected almost all of the rats together. He never kills them but relocates to wooded areas that are designated sanctuaries.

His suggested solution to catching them one by one is to take a 5 gallon bucket half full of water and float a layer of corn meal on it. The mice get into it but cant get out, cornmeal smell is very attractive apparently.I say flush 'em after that. Ive seen my small mice jump around as they cross a room but think a ramp or series of smallish boxes would be more inviting than a single leap to a 5 gal rim of unknown heights and sure death and maybe also a smaller pail.
I 'm hoping that a small holey Tupperware container with the mint or moth balls will make them shy away but cant prove it yet maybe wired to bottom of intake hose or the like in the engine compartments but surely they have ruined a number of my cars

Who the hell would save rats?
I absolutely HATE mice, found the fake plastic cheese traps work great for me, better than anything else tried so far. One of the little bastards ran off with a trap last week though, gotta find it before everything thaws...

Google "mouse wheel of death" if you also hate mice....

 

[Thruxton]

Re: To catch mice

I 'm hoping that a small holey Tupperware container with the mint or moth balls will make them shy away but cant prove it yet maybe wired to bottom of intake hose or the like in the engine compartments but surely they have ruined a number of my cars

That's a thought.

I like your avatar, BTW (you can probably guess why).

 

[Toymeister]

I have had roof rats. Yes rats that live in trees but prefer attics. They can be in AZ to Georgia. Thinner than a norway (sewer rat). Very gross if you have stuff stored in your attic.

http://www.pestcontrolsupplies.com/RoofRat.htm

No its not a joke.

 

[denis4x4]

In 1959 I worked at a brand new Boy Scout camp and the Navy SeaBees provided the labor to install factory donated PVC pipe. Within weeks, gophers had chewed through portions and the whole system was torn out. I want to say DuPont, but not sure on that, reformulated the contents and new PVC pipe was installed in 1960 with no further problems.

Like several others here, I'm concerned about rodents attacking PEX in a brand new addition that isn't even finished yet.

 

[bmfenn]

I get mice almost every fall when it starts to get cold out. I just use peanut butter on spring traps. Usually get 10-12 (whole family?) in less than a week then no more until next year. If you can reach the spot, you could also drop a few moth balls near the plumbing. I just installed around 1100 ft of pex between heating and plumbing in a new addition. ****! I have plenty of dry dog food in the cellar so they should be well fed and not need a plastic diet...hopefully!

Same here. I always catch 6-12 every fall, with traps under my kitchen sink. Then nothing until next fall. They get under there through the hole the pipes come through the wall. I almost covered the hole once, but realized I kill them all there, so who knows where they'll go if i plug it.

 

[RotoRoss]

Same here. I always catch 6-12 every fall, with traps under my kitchen sink. Then nothing until next fall. They get under there through the hole the pipes come through the wall. I almost covered the hole once, but realized I kill them all there, so who knows where they'll go if i plug it.

A small nuance,once a litter is born its a few weeks until they venture out where they are easy to catch.But it seems that there are always a runt or two that take a few weeks extra before they mature so while its easy to catch mom and dad and the majority of the clan the runts finally grow up and I swear they will change *** just so they can keep it going or find the odd mate in a nearby nest (under the oven or stove , a sofa, kitchen or bathroom sink behind a base board...sealing holes is a bad idea as has been stated and poison is bad for same reason dead critters inside walls do stink and invites more.... its a never ending battle and my season last only 8 weeks at best.

Metal mouse motels seem to collect the most without baiting and the see thru flip lids allows easy dispensing but if you don't empty frequently and one dies they tend to stay away then without hot water cleaning but you can get a few as they follow each other into trap until one croaks, the warning you have them is the ringing of the metal as they chew on the trap trying to escape.

 

[RotoRoss]

Re: To catch mice

That's a thought.

I like your avatar, BTW (you can probably guess why).

Thx,
got it off internet a few years back ,still looking for engine for mine but in meantime it has a Kawa 750 H3 two stroke in it

 

[RotoRoss]

Re: To catch mice

[/QUOTE]=Buckgnarly;2017344]Who the hell would save rats? [/QUOTE]

I AGREE But view show and you'll understand Crazy man of Great skill though.

[/QUOTE]One of the little bastards ran off with a trap last week though, gotta find it before everything thaws...[/QUOTE]

I NEVER USE GLUE TRAPS FOR THAT VERY REASON
...One dragged the trap under a base board on kitchen sink and was showing only a portion of trap and one rear leg had to fight him for the trap but he won and pulled free and got away. Boy, was he strong and what a creepy feeling arm wrestling a mouse. The crack under base board was flush with floor and yet he managed to get under it, body and trap nearly impossible but there you have it!