Sheet metal Ceiling application technques

[jack anderson]

I am in the process of installing white sheet metal liner panels for my ceiling
( 2' centers) in a 30' X 28' 8/12 pitch with loft trusses pole garage. I read a few threads here which has lead me to attempt this project. I am interested in learning techniques such as the use of a drywall lift to mount sheet metal panels into place. If you used this technique I am interested in how you might have adapted the dry wall lift to support 15' long X 3' pieces.I have read that pre drilling holes would be the way to go. What tools did you use to cut out for electrical boxes etc, I am hearing about lexan hole drill bits and the use of an air nibbler, ( not sure what this tool does etc..) I would like to learn from your experience as I prepare to tackle this project. I am hoping to recruit some very handy family members to help me complete this project.

 

[jkm4874ford]

PreDrill is great. Not sure what guage material you are using but predrill would be a must woking overhead. The metal panels will hang overhead with just a few screws a person on each end might be all you need. Might try a jigsaw for the cutouts, nibblers are tough to use around the ribs making the transition from flat to bend.

Good luck with the project.

 

[gnxtc2]

My spans were also 24" OC. I ordered 10'6" sheets. I think the standard width is around 38". Anything longer than 10' it becomes a hassle to handle. I got the thinner stuff because it was going inside and not exposed to the weather. I did not pre-drill my sheets. Get the screws that go with panel liner. My joists were wood got the corresponding screws.

My ceiling height is 12'. I have access to a scissor lift which helped tremendously. Two guys on the lift and one handing the sheets up to them.

I ordered my panel liner from http://www.bestbuymetals.com/ . Used the tough rib design. I drove to their plant (Scranton, PA) which is 90 mins from me to pick up the material. Don't know how close Scranton is too you. There are also a few other suppliers in PA that might be closer to you.

If you need any other assistance just ask.

I also studded, insulated the walls and put the liner on the walls.

Billy T.
[email protected]

 

[mitusa]

The 26 or 29 gauge metal is pretty light. Three people can lift it easily. If you have room on the ends, I found that a small pair of vise grips are really useful to clamp the piece you're putting up to the piece that's already up. Clamp the overlapping ribs together....it's like having another hand to help you. Pre-drilling helps a lot if you're confident enough in the joists running straight. I used electric tin snips to make the holes for the outlets and the lights. I'm sure others have more suggestions. Good luck!

 

[911mike]

I will be installing my ceiling come spring time. My barn is 42 x 74 and has 2ft on center rafters. I would love to predrill but I think there is just too much wave in the trusses at the 40ft+ lenght. Trying to hit the rafter you only have about 1/2" bounce and I'm not sure that is enough. If anyone has more input on this I would like to know too. I've done most of the walls and have tried just about every device to cut holes and I feel a GOOD jigsaw and the right blade is the best. Not always the fastest but it's accurate and easy to use. I bought a nibbler and that thing is tough to use with the 3/4" courragations.

 

[jkm4874ford]

My spans were also 24" OC. I ordered 10'6" sheets. I think the standard width is around 38". Anything longer than 10' it becomes a hassle to handle. I got the thinner stuff because it was going inside and not exposed to the weather. I did not pre-drill my sheets. Get the screws that go with panel liner. My joists were wood got the corresponding screws.

My ceiling height is 12'. I have access to a scissor lift which helped tremendously. Two guys on the lift and one handing the sheets up to them.

I ordered my panel liner from http://www.bestbuymetals.com/ . Used the tough rib design. I drove to their plant (Scranton, PA) which is 90 mins from me to pick up the material. Don't know how close Scranton is too you. There are also a few other suppliers in PA that might be closer to you.

If you need any other assistance just ask.

I also studded, insulated the walls and put the liner on the walls.

Billy T.
[email protected]

Makes a huge difference. For liner in a common garage without heavy use and stuff beating up on the walls I would use the 29 ga. liner, much lighter and easier to handle and drill.

 

[NUTTSGT]

If you need any other assistance just ask.

Billy T.
[email protected]

What did you use along the edge of the wall ? Prefabbed and did you bend up your own coil stock ?


Great looking shop. You have the trailer and GNX back in your possession ?

 

[duke460]

Just finished the ceiling on my 40 x 48 pole barn. 12 foot side walls. Rented a scissors lift for $160/week. For 20' span ordered the panels 10'6" so they overlap and can adjust to fit, no cutting. Buy the self drilling screws for the panels. Took 16 hours for 3 people. Used a air cut off tool with 3" disc to cut out box's.

 

[joes169]

Rather than pre-drilling, I've found that it's much faster & easier to just stack a few sheets together & punch the holes though with a standard "scratch-awl". Mark out one template sheet to lay over every time and make sure you have a piece of wood under every place you'll be punching.

As for lifting, it sounds like your ceiling may be cathedral?? The last one I did was as well, and I strapped out the ceiling with 1x3's so the sheets ran the short way, with a bent trim to cover the center seam. Not sure how you could get the sheets to stay on a drywall lift at a steep angle, they'll likely slide down if it's much more than a 3/12 ceiling pitch.

 

[PsRumors]

I used a sheetrock lift for my plywood and 5v ceiling. It worked well with 10' 5v, didn't need to adapt anything at all.

With the $130 sheetrock lift and a 6' ladder I was able to install my ceiling all by myself.

 

[betterbillt]

To cut any holes I'd invest in a good set of tin snips. A red and green pair is what I use. I haven't found a hole I could cut yet. One thing that might help with tin snip, is if you don't completely close them when your cutting your cuts will be less jagged.

I'll say it again, unless your hanging this steel on a perfect framing job I wouldn't punch holes. It doesn't take much to miss.

Good luck.

 

[Cryptic1911]

I'm not up on sheetmetal ceilings, but why are you guys pre-drilling? Why not just use self tapping sheetmetal screws with the hex heads, and the bit that goes with them? No slipping, and will go through even 12ga sheetmetal like butter

 

[jack anderson]

Thanks for all the responses and advice... I am using 29 gauge liner panels.. My ceiling height is 10' 6". It is not a cathedral ceiling and should be fairly easy to use a dry wall lift to crank the panels up to the ceiling joists. The longest section will be around 15'.I was just concerned with a dry wall lift being able to handle a 15' length. Would a sissors jack be better to use than a dry wall lift? I will start by putting up the J channel snapping lines etc... I purchased my materials from Zimmermans Tack shop... in Mifflinburg Pa.. When you used tin snips did you drill prior to snipping. Anyone use a lennox circle hole drill bit for electrical outlets? I really appreciate your advise.. This is a great site I am learning so much.... can't wait to post some pictures of the progress I have made on the Great Garage Surprise project thus far..

 

[911mike]

If you don't pre drill what is the best way to find the center of the rafter. Having all the holes nice and straight is pretty important for Ascetics. eyeballing just doesn't work all that well. Any sugguestions would be helpful.

 

[betterbillt]

If you don't pre drill what is the best way to find the center of the rafter. Having all the holes nice and straight is pretty important for Ascetics. eyeballing just doesn't work all that well. Any sugguestions would be helpful.

Each person has to do it the way that works for them. I mark my sheets with a dot from a sharpie or a pencil. When I worked on a crew I'd mark my tape and transfer the marks to the sheet of metal. Just be sure to not be hooked on the rivit of the tape. If the marks are trailing off you can adjust with out having a hole to deal with. All I was saying is at least you can fix a potential problem before it happens. With holes in the sheets your stuck with what it is and you have to deal with it.

It's kinda like drywall. They put those nice dots on the sheets now and most of the time if you use them your screw blows through the edge of a stud.

I will say that some people just can't see in a straight line so they have to do what works. If it doesn't work for you by all means punch holes. Just so you know, If a screw does tear out of a stud/rafter you can alway put a block of wood or use a longer screw or both.

 

[joes169]

I suppose if you're just screwing to the bottom cord of the truss, you may miss a few. Like I mentioned earlier, I wanted my ceiling turned the other way, so I strapped under the trusses with 1x3's, which gave me 2.5" to screw into. I've tried self-drillers before, and when working by yourself I've found it to be frustrating on a ceiling. One other thing you may want to consider that I've done on the last two ceilings i put in: Putting the ribs up, rather than down like you usually see, gives a lot cleaner look (only my opinion), as well as putting your screws out of "eyeballing" site and giving you channels to run small conduit, etc....

I can take a picture or two if you want to see how it looks...........

 

[sabercatt]

Thanks for all the responses and advice... I am using 29 gauge liner panels.. My ceiling height is 10' 6". It is not a cathedral ceiling and should be fairly easy to use a dry wall lift to crank the panels up to the ceiling joists. The longest section will be around 15'.I was just concerned with a dry wall lift being able to handle a 15' length. Would a sissors jack be better to use than a dry wall lift? I will start by putting up the J channel snapping lines etc... I purchased my materials from Zimmermans Tack shop... in Mifflinburg Pa.. When you used tin snips did you drill prior to snipping. Anyone use a lennox circle hole drill bit for electrical outlets? I really appreciate your advise.. This is a great site I am learning so much.... can't wait to post some pictures of the progress I have made on the Great Garage Surprise project thus far..

a drywall lift is meant to support a 12' sheet, so a 15' sheet of steel shouldn't be any problem.

 

[gnxtc2]

What did you use along the edge of the wall ? Prefabbed and did you bend up your own coil stock ?

Prefab rat guard from the liner supplier. When I placed the order, I told him not make a less of return bend against the plywood.

Great looking shop. You have the trailer and GNX back in your possession ?

Yes, have everything back in my possession

Billy T.
[email protected]

 

[gnxtc2]

If you don't pre drill what is the best way to find the center of the rafter. Having all the holes nice and straight is pretty important for Ascetics. eyeballing just doesn't work all that well. Any sugguestions would be helpful.

When I put my sheets up, I ran a chalk line across each sheet.

Billy T.
[email protected]

 

[PeterT]

I also just did, or am about to finish my 40x90 foot barn. Ten foot from concrete to bottom of purlins. My posts are every 8 foot.
I ran 2x4s between the purlins every 4 foot (perpendicular to the purlins) to have a grid to fasten the metal to.

I bought a drywall lift off amazon.com for a little under $200. I then took 2 18foot 2x4s and mounted them to the top of the drywall lift (2x4s on there side), used 2 lag bolts per 2x4.

I installed 20 foot sheets of 29 guage pro rib metal.

I didn't pre drill anything, I used the 1 1/2 inch pole barn sheet metal screws, they are self tapping - they worked no problems.

I did use a 3/4" hole boar for the romex on each of the florescent lights. Not sure the hole boar was meant for metal but it worked,, not sure it will be worth much once I am 100% done.

I am almost finished and it looks like a professional shop. I will snap some photos once complete.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Yes, have everything back in my possession

Billy T.
[email protected]

Glad to hear.

I am almost finished and it looks like a professional shop. I will snap some photos once complete.

Snap some pics now and when finished.

 

[Highbeam]

I have put about 1500 1.5" long hex head metal siding screws into my barn in the last couple of weeks. These are the gasketed ones with the 1/4" hex head. They are pointy and they can be forced to drill through metal but it is way way easier to prepoke a hole. I use a nail and hammer to predrill.

There is a great potential for damage when trying to force the tip of the screw through metal when you don't predrill. The screw can fall over and you then drive your power drill into the metal for instance.

I really wanted to be able to just push the screws into the metal but it doesn't work like that.

 

[Cryptic1911]

Hm, what kind of bit were you using? We use these type at work:

and they come with bits in the box for them that are magnetized, and they fit solid.. almost impossible for them to fall out or slip out sideways

 

[Jeff Ivers]

I helped a friend do his shop ceiling a year ago. 10' ceiling height. The two of us completed the job in about 2 days. We predrilled each panel separately, carefully measuring the joists to allow for any sway. We fabbed a simple t-brace out of a scrap 2x4 and 1x4 and some old carpet. One of us would climb a ladder and position one end of the piece. The other would place the t-brace in position near the first person to take the weight off and then climb a ladder and position the opposite end. The first person would put a couple of screws in and then reposition the t-brace to support the panel near the other person. We used a 3" cutoff wheel in a pneumatic cutoff tool for almost all the cuts. We repositioned some of the ceiling outlets so we could avoid having cuts through the thick ribs which would interfere with outlet plates.

 

[WiBad]

Does all that metal surface turn the room into an echo chamber?

 

[Highbeam]

Hm, what kind of bit were you using? We use these type at work:

and they come with bits in the box for them that are magnetized, and they fit solid.. almost impossible for them to fall out or slip out sideways

The bit wasn't the problem, but I was using a dewalt 6-point hex magnetic nut driver. The problem was the high push force needed to push these pointy screws into the metal. Your photo is a tek screw, and not a gasketed roofing/siding screw. The siding screws have a pointy point and then a small relief in the side near the tip to act as a cutter once you've penetrated the metal. They come painted to match the siding color.

 

[camarotoolman]

I think a dry wallers screw gun with self taping screws would be the way to go. No need to predrill. The screw gun is much faster and it stops drilling when the screw is flush with metal. Get a cheap chalk box to lay out your centers and tool belt is more convienient. Renting a high - low would be worth the money too.

 

[PCO6]

I used aluminum soffit panels and screwed them straight to the furring strips with white Robertson screws (No. 6 x 3/8"). I did not pre-drill. I simply pierced the aluminum with the tip of the screw.

 

[PCO6]

Does all that metal surface turn the room into an echo chamber?

I have 10' ceilings and didn't notice any change at all.

 

[jvitez]

PCO6: how did you mount your lighting and electrical once the sheet metal was installed?

 

[PCO6]

PCO6: how did you mount your lighting and electrical once the sheet metal was installed?

jvitez - My garage is 20' deep. I ran the soffit panels starting from the front and back walls and covered the seem in the middle with a 2' wide plywood cover running from one side wall to the other. I then mounted my electrical and air lines to the plywood. It works well and I can easily make changes to it if I need to. The light fixtures simply hang from chain and eye hooks that are screwed into the furring strips that the soffit panels are also screwed to.

 

[Red05GT]

Just installed a metal ceiling in a custom garage and used a cordless Dewalt impact
and it worked much better than a drill. We used air schears for straight rips, regular
Wiss straight snips for cross cuts and large circle cuts. Laid out the electrical boxes
to fall in the flat area between the corruagations. We have used a standard drywall
lift to support and install up to 22' panels in the past. This garage was 26' long so we
ordered 10' and 16' panels and and just held them up and used the impact to zip a
couple of quick screws in and then sighted across the sheet to keep the screws running
reasonably straight.

 

[jvitez]

PCO6: great pics, and awesome idea. Thanks! That's a very creative way to solve several problems at once.

 

[jack anderson]

I am starting the ceiling in my garage on Saturday. I rented two sections of 5' scaffolding with the castors. I am anticipating having three or four other handy relatives help so I will attempt this without the dry wall lift. Once I have the J channel put in place I will start with the edges. I plan to snap lines to keep the screws centered on the 2x10'' ceiling rafters. I will be using cordless drills with the designated drivers. I will consider pre drilling if I find that the self taping screws and driver give me any problems. I have a variety of tin snips and my brother in law will be bring some air tools as well... I'll take some pictures of the adventure... Thanks for all the advice and pictures... really liked all of the ceilings that you shared with me.. I just hope mine looks as wonderful as all of yours when I am done.

 

[PCO6]

Thanks jvitez. I am happy with the results. It keeps the heat in and really brightened the place up.

 

[jack anderson]

Well after seven hours and five very handy and dedicated relatives I was able to install 29 gauge metal ceiling panel liners in my 30' X 28' garage with 10' ceiling... The hardest part was working around the electrical outlets and there were many... and unbolting the angling iron mounts for the garage door track... I hope to post pictures New Years Day....
Thanks to all that gave me advise and encouragement.