Just in wal mart looking at tools...

[BHH]

Let me apologize for further derailing this thread . . .

But there is nothing creepy or unusual about that practice. An employer, which is providing health insurance, takes out term life policies on employees it covers. So if some of those employees have long term, terminal (aka expensive) health issues, that employer can recoup some of its expenses it paid out through the health costs.

Not creepy - sound business, IMHO. Of course it looks bad when a one sided "news" article tries to sensationalize a story rather than reporting objectively.

Oh wait, Walmart doesn't give its employees health insurance. Or maybe that's just more one-sided BS.

I'm neither Pro nor Anti Walmart. Like most things, the issues are far more complicated than they appear on the surface. The fact is, a business such as Walmart also creates jobs beyond low wage sales jobs.

It's probably better discussed in its own thread.

It is my understanding that Walmart did this without the peoples knowledge of it happening. They now say that the employes had the option to opt out of it but who knows if that is true or not.

 

[sberry]

Walmart has set a standard for retailers, a lot of others have followed suit. 35 yrs ago I buy a common utility tub, laundry sink from my local hwd, 40$, had to order it, 3 weeks, 35 yrs later well under 20$ a whole stack of them on the shelf at Home Depot. Dozens of items like that these days.

 

[SeanConklin]

I saw the 3/8" black Stanley ratchet and it felt smooth. I didn't need it (the wife was with me) so I let it be, but I may go back and give it a try

 

[Hootbro]

Never mind.............

 

[Jonboy1974]

I saw the 3/8" black Stanley ratchet and it felt smooth. I didn't need it (the wife was with me) so I let it be, but I may go back and give it a try

I was in the same boat as you, the wife was with me and gave me the speal about how i had enough tools! Yeah right. I'll go back when she's not with me!

 

[Stephenw]

I remember back when Sam Walton was in charge. There were USA flags on product displays all over the store.

I have a couple of Popular Mechanics and Master Mechanic tools in my box. They used to be a Wal-Mart brand, made in the USA.

I went to Wal-Mart a couple of weeks ago and bought some made in the USA socks. I went today and purchased some Rubbermaid storage containers, made in the USA.

 

[Hootbro]

You selectively chose the most expensive SK socket set you could find. There are cheaper options than that, Craftsman for one.

Plus, many people don't get 1/2" drive deep sockets.

I'm not going to argue with you. If you are determined not to buy USA products, that's fine. I even have some (but not many) Chinese tools.

If you want to find affordable USA made tools, do more searching on the forum. It takes smart buying sometimes, but it's worth it, IMO.

But, don't say USA made tools are always "four to ten times" more expensive, because that's not true.

I think actual "new" current production affordable USA made tools are getting harder and harder to find. You can always find the flea market price cheap used USA made tools anywhere to include here, but the new production USA made stuff is slowly dwindling to nothing.

People nowadays look at it as either USA made or import (usually Chinese/Taiwan) but in years back it was quite a different tool market. Up until maybe the mid 1970's, it was almost all USA made. What is lost on many is that back then, even USA made tools were tiered to different price points. Craftsman was actually more expensive with inflation factored in than compared to today. Some of the "budget" USA made brands where "Challenger", "Thorsen" and "Great Neck" that sold at discount chains and many considered them "****" for their time. Now that we have cheap import tools, that "****" of years past is gone and those used tools from budget brands of years past are now coveted.

 

[oldtools]

I sailed on a Maersk cargo ship to Iraq from Seattle for uncle sam, its crew was all American.

Maersk Line, Limited

Maersk Line, Limited, is a US-based subsidiary of A.P. Moller – Maersk Group which manages a fleet of US-flag vessels and provides U.S. government agencies and their contractors with transportation and logistics services. Headquartered in Norfolk, Virginia,[18] it manages the world's largest fleet of US-flag vessels. Beginning with a relatively small number of vessels focused on handling commercial and US Government-subsidised cargoes, MLL's fleet of vessels engaged in commercial liner services.

Maersk Line Limited is a US subsidiary of the Maersk Group, a European company. Just like American Honda is a US subsidiary of Honda Corporation.

 

[DYNA BILL]

Getting back to the original post (it WAS about Stanley tools at Wal-Mart and not about patriotism or supporting China, or cars wasn't it?)
I buy what I can afford. I'm not a rich man, I don't even have much expendable income. That being said, I have a set of Stanley metric and SAE combination wrenches and a set of 1/4" drive metric and SAE sockets with ratchet that I bought at Wal-Mart. They have served me well and I have not broken a single one of them even under extreme pressure. You buy what you can afford, I'll buy what I can afford. Now ya'll can go back to talking about China, patriotism, cars, jobs, or whatever it was you were talking about.

 

[BHH]

I just want to say I have absolutely no problem with someone buying cheap(er) tools because that is what they can afford. I would rather someone save money by buying a cheap (monetary not quality) Chinese tool if it allows them to put dinner on the table for their family.

 

[DYNA BILL]

I just want to say I have absolutely no problem with someone buying cheap(er) tools because that is what they can afford. I would rather someone save money by buying a cheap (monetary not quality) Chinese tool if it allows them to put dinner on the table for their family.

I agree with you, but the fact that some tools are cheap monetarily does not necessarily equate to being cheap in quality. I have owned Craftsman, S-K, Mac, Snap-on, you name it. But due to the fact that I have never broken a Stanley tool and I have broken countless Craftsman and other name brand sockets and wrenches, tells me that I don't need to spend the extra money on the higher priced brands for the kind of work that I use them for. YMMV
And for those that are so against buying something that is not made in the good old U S of A, you better go throw away your TV's, DVD players, video game machines, microwaves, electric razors, bath towels, linens, and half of the clothes in your closets and drawers. But don't trash that Toyota or Honda sitting in your driveway. Those were assembled in the USA
where some of your American cars were assembled in Mexico or Canada. Hell, the entire front end of my Harley, the "American Icon" is made in Japan!

 

[greasemonkey44]

i have a 1/4 set of sae and metric that was ok to good(needed it right then to fix a car).
also got a pair of thier groove joint pliers too.....terrible; thought it would be cool to have chrome pliers that i could wipe off. They peeled like mad

 

[Kev442]

Kinda strange that a tool from china that says stanley on it at walmart is ok, but that same tool saying pittsburgh on it at HF is the worst junk on earth.

P.S. Master Mechanic is found at True Value, not walmart.

 

[DYNA BILL]

Kinda strange that a tool from china that says stanley on it at walmart is ok, but that same tool saying pittsburgh on it at HF is the worst junk on earth.

P.S. Master Mechanic is found at True Value, not walmart.

I don't care if a tool says "Made from Dogshit in Eastern Outer Mongolia" on it, if it works for me, and the price is right, I'm gonna buy it. I don't give a fat rat's *** whether it was "Union Made" or not.

 

[Boost Creep]

I remember back when Sam Walton was in charge. There were USA flags on product displays all over the store.

I have a couple of Popular Mechanics and Master Mechanic tools in my box. They used to be a Wal-Mart brand, made in the USA.

I went to Wal-Mart a couple of weeks ago and bought some made in the USA socks. I went today and purchased some Rubbermaid storage containers, made in the USA.

theres still tons of stuff at walmart thats american made. theres just alot of close minded people not willing or wanting to hear it. although i do prefer american made goods i'm not one to go out of my way to much to get em. i was kinda suprised to see some random floor mat i bought to put by my entry door was american made from walmart. really wasen't expecting to see that and didn't even notice till i got home and was pulling the tag off.

 

[WRX/Z28]

I don't care if a tool says "Made from Dogshit in Eastern Outer Mongolia" on it, if it works for me, and the price is right, I'm gonna buy it. I don't give a fat rat's *** whether it was "Union Made" or not.

Very strange stance from someone with a Harley in their avatar. (most Harley guys take the opposite stance)

Personally, it's important to me that products continue to be produced by this country. After all, if we become a country of consumers, how long will that last?

I avoid Wal-Mart like the plague for just this reason. They do more to support chinese goods coming in to this country than any other single entity.

Their prices aren't all that much different than any other department stores from what i've seen. In fact, just recently I purchased my nephew a kids bike from Sears. Not only was it $4 cheaper than Walmart (where my sister pointed it out for sale), but it was shipped for free. Granted, it was the same Chinese made bike, but at least I was supporting what I feel is overall a better company...


Edit*Personally, I avoid chinese goods for a multitude of reasons. On average, they are built like they were contracted to the lowest bidder (which in the case of wal-mart may be completely the case), it does nothing to support my fellow Americans that are out of work, and it supports an industry with no standards and no regulation to speak of.

I fully realize that I can't purchase all my goods as USA made. It's simply impossible. However, when there is a US made choice, and it's similar or superior quality, even if it's a couple $ more, i'll pay it.

I'm about to buy some Red Wing 4425's or 4206's for just this reason. When I shop, I strongly consider COO when making purchases. I also check reviews, and do my best to purchase a superior product. It happens to be that more often than not, the superior product is domestic.

 

[soob]

It's amusing that wal-mart carries a lot of the same tools Harbor Freight does, but sells them for 2-3x as much.

The thing about wally world is that they sell a lot of stuff for really good prices, but they like to mix in stuff that's a ripoff. If you don't know better you assume you're getting the same deal.

Then again home depot and lowes (for example) are much worse.

 

[DYNA BILL]

Very strange stance from someone with a Harley in their avatar. (most Harley guys take the opposite stance)

Personally, it's important to me that products continue to be produced by this country. After all, if we become a country of consumers, how long will that last?

I avoid Wal-Mart like the plague for just this reason. They do more to support chinese goods coming in to this country than any other single entity.

Their prices aren't all that much different than any other department stores from what i've seen. In fact, just recently I purchased my nephew a kids bike from Sears. Not only was it $4 cheaper than Walmart (where my sister pointed it out for sale), but it was shipped for free. Granted, it was the same Chinese made bike, but at least I was supporting what I feel is overall a better company...

I am not a "Harley guy". I happen to own a Harley. I would have no problem owning and riding a Honda Gold Wing (which by the way is made in America, or any other of the Japanese or German bikes.
I fail to understand why you felt you were choosing the lesser of two "evils" by buying a Chinese made bicycle from Sears rather than the same Chinese made bicycle from Walmart. Your logic escapes me. Sears has it's fair share of Chinese made products in it's inventory.

 

[DYNA BILL]

Personally, I avoid chinese goods for a multitude of reasons. On average, they are built like they were contracted to the lowest bidder (which in the case of wal-mart may be completely the case)

Hate to burst your bubble, but Walmart doesn't build the products, They just sell them.

 

[WRX/Z28]

I am not a "Harley guy". I happen to own a Harley. I would have no problem owning and riding a Honda Gold Wing (which by the way is made in America, or any other of the Japanese or German bikes.
I fail to understand why you felt you were choosing the lesser of two "evils" by buying a Chinese made bicycle from Sears rather than the same Chinese made bicycle from Walmart. Your logic escapes me. Sears has it's fair share of Chinese made products in it's inventory.

While this is true, and with sears exporting more and more of it's craftsman tools, they're sliding down a slippery slope as far as i'm concerned, they still operate far differently than wal-mart.

I continuously see the same people in my sears stores. They carry better quality clothing lines (levis, dickies, carhartt, Lee, so on). Their wages on average are higher, they're goods are better quality (by my perception anyway).

I could tell you the walmart story, and such, but i'll leave that to you to decide if you want to see it.

There are movies, news articles, studies, and plenty of internet info pointing to why Wal-mart is the worst retail corporation in America....

 

[Deadhead]

2 years or so ago, I was on the road and in a pinch so I bought the Stanley Torx bit set that has the 1/4" drive and the 3/8" drive stuff mixed together. They ended up in my main box and I use them a couple time a week. No problems what so ever out of them.

The black chrome finish stuff looks good but I wonder how it will hold up. I wonder if it scratches easy.

 

[WRX/Z28]

Hate to burst your bubble, but Walmart doesn't build the products, They just sell them.

WTF?

Do you really believe that I think Wal-mart is a producer of anything?

My point is they basically force companies to make cheaper products so they can lower their prices.

Rubbermaid ring a bell? They were almost put out of business by wal-mart a few years ago because they didn't want to cheapen their products any more, and wal-mart was demanding cheaper goods.

 

[Butters]

I don't care if a tool says "Made from Dogshit in Eastern Outer Mongolia" on it, if it works for me, and the price is right, I'm gonna buy it. I don't give a fat rat's *** whether it was "Union Made" or not.

That's just ignorant. If you saw the working conditions at the Eastern Outer Mongolia Dogshit factories, I don't think you would have the same attitude. It's criminal the way they treat the Eastern Outer Mongolian Pygmy Oompa Loompas. Simply criminal.


Does anybody know if Walmart sells Stanley tools?

 

[geologist]

 

[DYNA BILL]

While this is true, and with sears exporting more and more of it's craftsman tools, they're sliding down a slippery slope as far as i'm concerned, they still operate far differently than wal-mart.

I continuously see the same people in my sears stores. They carry better quality clothing lines (levis, dickies, carhartt, Lee, so on). Their wages on average are higher, they're goods are better quality (by my perception anyway).

I could tell you the walmart story, and such, but i'll leave that to you to decide if you want to see it.

There are movies, news articles, studies, and plenty of internet info pointing to why Wal-mart is the worst retail corporation in America....

If as you say, Sears is exporting more and more of it's Craftsman tools, that is a good thing Isn't it? Perhaps you meant to say "importing".
As to the clothing lines, I just this last week bought 3 pairs of Wrangler Boot Cut Jeans at Walmart of which I'm wearing a pair right now. I'd have to take them off to see if Walmart Wranglers are made in another country as opposed to the ones being sold at Sears being made in America. I highly doubt they come from different countries.
As for wages? Wages are relative to geographic location. Here in Missouri, I would bet that the average worker at Sears is getting close to the wage of the average worker at Walmart, Kmart, Target, etc.
In California, I'm sure the wage scale is considerably higher across the board as it probably is in New York. I am not defending Walmart's hiring or business practices,as there are unscrupulous cut-throat business dealings within almost every major corporation in America.
After all, this thread started out about about a set of Stanley wrenches. Didn't it?

 

[trboxman]

My point is they basically force companies to make cheaper products so they can lower their prices.

I know you mean "they" to be Walmart, but Walmart is a publicly traded company. This usually means that the biggest group of "owners" are people with retirement investments in blended mutual funds etc....in other words, "we" are "they". "We" create the pressure for profits at all costs because "we" depend on our retirement accounts appreciating over time.

 

[DYNA BILL]

Personally, I avoid chinese goods for a multitude of reasons. On average, they are built like they were contracted to the lowest bidder.

Hate to burst your bubble, but Walmart doesn't build the products, They just sell them.

WTF?

Do you really believe that I think Wal-mart is a producer of anything?

I was only quoting what you said.

 

[WRX/Z28]

I was only quoting what you said.

Ok, and nowhere did I insinuate that walmart makes anything in what you quoted.

 

[porphyre]

I think actual "new" current production affordable USA made tools are getting harder and harder to find. You can always find the flea market price cheap used USA made tools anywhere to include here, but the new production USA made stuff is slowly dwindling to nothing.

People nowadays look at it as either USA made or import (usually Chinese/Taiwan) but in years back it was quite a different tool market. Up until maybe the mid 1970's, it was almost all USA made. What is lost on many is that back then, even USA made tools were tiered to different price points. Craftsman was actually more expensive with inflation factored in than compared to today. Some of the "budget" USA made brands where "Challenger", "Thorsen" and "Great Neck" that sold at discount chains and many considered them "****" for their time. Now that we have cheap import tools, that "****" of years past is gone and those used tools from budget brands of years past are now coveted.

Welcome to GJ.

I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.

 

[DYNA BILL]

Originally Posted by WRX/Z28
Personally, I avoid chinese goods for a multitude of reasons. On average, they are built like they were contracted to the lowest bidder.

How in the hell could I have misinterpreted this to mean anything otherwise?
Contracted for what? To be manufactured by Walmart? To me, that's what it looks like you're saying.

 

[e-tek]

I know you mean "they" to be Walmart, but Walmart is a publicly traded company. This usually means that the biggest group of "owners" are people with retirement investments in blended mutual funds etc....in other words, "we" are "they". "We" create the pressure for profits at all costs because "we" depend on our retirement accounts appreciating over time.

Not true at all. The "we" are "they" argument doesn't work at all here. The individual investor doesn't "choose" what to invest their mutual funds in any more than they tell WalMart how to run their buisness. Fund managers buy huge lots of companies based on industrial spreads. That's like saing when you buy Templeton Big Cap Secutities you are affecting Walmarts ruthless, consumerist buisness practices.
Many people invest in Ethical and Green Mutual Funds, but still don't have any input - or clue - as to where theeir money is going!

 

[WRX/Z28]

If as you say, Sears is exporting more and more of it's Craftsman tools, that is a good thing Isn't it? Perhaps you meant to say "importing".
As to the clothing lines, I just this last week bought 3 pairs of Wrangler Boot Cut Jeans at Walmart of which I'm wearing a pair right now. I'd have to take them off to see if Walmart Wranglers are made in another country as opposed to the ones being sold at Sears being made in America. I highly doubt they come from different countries.
As for wages? Wages are relative to geographic location. Here in Missouri, I would bet that the average worker at Sears is getting close to the wage of the average worker at Walmart, Kmart, Target, etc.
In California, I'm sure the wage scale is considerably higher across the board as it probably is in New York. I am not defending Walmart's hiring or business practices,as there are unscrupulous cut-throat business dealings within almost every major corporation in America.
After all, this thread started out about about a set of Stanley wrenches. Didn't it?

I meant exporting production (probably not the best wording I agree), but you obviously understood what I meant, so quit it with the english lesson.

I've yet to run across wranglers at sears... What store did you see them in? The last pair of Wrangler jeans I owned were complete **** I purchased at Kmart. I'll never buy another pair.

Wages in the last study I saw put Walmart among the lowest of all major department stores, regardless of region. They also paid out the least in benefits, and hired the least amount of full time associates.

As to the start of this thread, Walmart was in the title, and in the first post, and I was replying to both that, and your post about "not caring if it was made from dogshit in eastern outer mongolia" if it did the job.

FWIW, the company I work for is one of the few remaining companies that produces electronics in this country. I'm happy to have a job, and I like what I do. If they exported my job simply because some kid in China would do it for 1/10th my wages (not possible due to the nature of my work, just saying) I'd be pissed. This happens to americans every day. I hope your line of work is immune to this... I know most of us aren't so lucky.

 

[WRX/Z28]

Originally Posted by WRX/Z28
Personally, I avoid chinese goods for a multitude of reasons. On average, they are built like they were contracted to the lowest bidder.

How in the hell could I have misinterpreted this to mean anything otherwise?
Contracted for what? To be manufactured by Walmart? To me, that's what it looks like you're saying.

Dude, come on now. Where in my statement is the word Walmart? What words there insinuate that walmart is the producer, or that they make anything? What is going on with you here?


I said Chinese goods are built like they are contracted to the lowest bidder. Do you not follow my meaning?

If I said (as walmart), whoever bids this production contract the lowest can produce goods for us, what type of goods would you expect?

Does this mean I think walmart makes the goods? How are you misunderstanding this?

 

[DYNA BILL]

Not true at all. The "we" are "they" argument doesn't work at all here. The individual investor doesn't "choose" what to invest their mutual funds in any more than they tell WalMart how to run their buisness. Fund managers buy huge lots of companies based on industrial spreads. That's like saing when you buy Templeton Big Cap Secutities you are affecting Walmarts ruthless, consumerist buisness practices.
Many people invest in Ethical and Green Mutual Funds, but still don't have any input - or clue - as to where theeir money is going!

I agree. My 401K is split half in t-bills/bonds and half in stocks. I have no idea which individual stocks those may be.

 

[DYNA BILL]

I meant exporting production (probably not the best wording I agree), but you obviously understood what I meant, so quit it with the english lesson.

I've yet to run across wranglers at sears... What store did you see them in? The last pair of Wrangler jeans I owned were complete **** I purchased at Kmart. I'll never buy another pair.

Wages in the last study I saw put Walmart among the lowest of all major department stores, regardless of region. They also paid out the least in benefits, and hired the least amount of full time associates.

As to the start of this thread, Walmart was in the title, and in the first post, and I was replying to both that, and your post about "not caring if it was made from dogshit in eastern outer mongolia" if it did the job.

FWIW, the company I work for is one of the few remaining companies that produces electronics in this country. I'm happy to have a job, and I like what I do. If they exported my job simply because some kid in China would do it for 1/10th my wages (not possible due to the nature of my work, just saying) I'd be pissed. This happens to americans every day. I hope your line of work is immune to this... I know most of us aren't so lucky.

Dude, come on now. Where in my statement is the word Walmart? What words there insinuate that walmart is the producer, or that they make anything? What is going on with you here?


I said Chinese goods are built like they are contracted to the lowest bidder. Do you not follow my meaning?

If I said (as walmart), whoever bids this production contract the lowest can produce goods for us, what type of goods would you expect?

Does this mean I think walmart makes the goods? How are you misunderstanding this?

If you would pay attention, I did not say I bought Wranglers at Sears. I said I bought them at Walmart. I'm sorry if you don't care for Wranglers. If they were **** for you, well, maybe they are not meant for every body shape, although I don't know what your shape is.
As for you not insinuating that products were contracted out to the lowest bidder (bidder for what? Resale? Manufacture?) Go back and read your post #58 paragraph #5.
I'm done with this subject and with you for this evening.

 

[dieselmike]

with ya on this one BHH. im in favor of supporting north american families,our way of life and values. I also prefer to support other people like this,many of which are our ancestors in europe. my favorite tools happen to be of this lineage as well.

 

[WRX/Z28]

If you would pay attention, I did not say I bought Wranglers at Sears. I said I bought them at Walmart. I'm sorry if you don't care for Wranglers. If they were **** for you, well, maybe they are not meant for every body shape, although I don't know what your shape is.
As for you not insinuating that products were contracted out to the lowest bidder (bidder for what? Resale? Manufacture?) Go back and read your post #58 paragraph #5.
I'm done with this subject and with you for this evening.

Uh, you said "

As to the clothing lines, I just this last week bought 3 pairs of Wrangler Boot Cut Jeans at Walmart of which I'm wearing a pair right now. I'd have to take them off to see if Walmart Wranglers are made in another country as opposed to the ones being sold at Sears being made in America. I highly doubt they come from different countries.
:

"

Remember? Jeez, it was only 5 mins ago. I didn't say you bought them at sears, I was saying Sears doesn't sell them (to even try to compare countries of production).

I'm telling you that wal-mart, because of how large they are, dictates how much they will pay for an item. They (more than any other reseller) dictate the quality of the items the manufacturer produces because of this. They more than any other retailer determine what products are available to us as a consumer. They practically dictate what other retailers carry and sell for to stay competitive.


Sorry if your done for the night, i'm really not trying to be insulting, but you were somehow reading into my statements and getting that I think walmart makes things. Clearly this is not the case. I don't think I know everything, but clearly i'm not that stupid. How in gods green earth you could have got that from what I said is beyond me...

 

[DYNA BILL]

One last thing for tonight.
WRX/Z28, you and I probably agree on a lot of the things discussed on this thread this evening, but it is late and I do tend to read things differently than their intended meaning at this hour. Perhaps I have misunderstood some of the things you have said and I am sorry for that. As I said, if the day were earlier, we would probably not be having this difference of interpretation. I hope there are no hard feelings.

 

[WRX/Z28]

One last thing for tonight.
WRX/Z28, you and I probably agree on a lot of the things discussed on this thread this evening, but it is late and I do tend to read things differently than their intended meaning at this hour. Perhaps I have misunderstood some of the things you have said and I am sorry for that. As I said, if the day were earlier, we would probably not be having this difference of interpretation. I hope there are no hard feelings.

None at all. Just a friendly chat that maybe went a hair off topic.

I don't expect everyone to share my views, but I hold them tight. I like where I live. I like the history of my country. I like seeing things produced here by americans ((of any nationality) just to dispell those that think purchasing Made in USA as a rule is a form of racism). I like seeing old world craftsmanship. I've heard stories from old timers that worked on production lines, and spoke about it like it was their "badge of honor". Guys that took pride in their work, and believed in the products they made.

Try to find any of that in anything you buy at Walmart.

Maybe i'm holding on to a bygone era that came and went mostly before my time. Personally I hope not. I still see examples of this craftsmanship today, but every time I do, someone is there to proclaim that it's a rip off, and overpriced. People today expect everything to be made for less than an hours wage. People would sooner toss a broken product than spend half it's value fixing it. It's a shame, and I wish people would wise up.

I buy things that will last. I'm done buying the cheapest acceptable product. Instead, I'm buying the product that will stand the test of time.

One of the reason i'm about to buy Redwing boots, they will resole their boots to bring them back to life. I would much rather rebuild what I have than buy new whenever possible.

Maybe that's the reason I own 3 car's from the 80's-90's... even the S-10 I drive as a beater has some craftsmanship to it. When I open the drivers door, theres a decal proclaiming that it was made in NJ about 20 mins from where I live. 180k on the clock, and it run's like a top with it's 4cyl. Gets me 25-29mpg depending on driving habbits/the season. It's cheap to maintain, and while it's far from a prestigious vehicle, I get some pride out of the fact that I bought it for $1k about 4 years ago, and since then have put maybe $400 in it (not including gas/oil) to keep it running. I plan on having it for a while yet. When I replace it, i'll be buying another truck to last me for the long haul. Hopefully there will still be something made that you can work on without needing nasa's computers to diagnose it... lol

 

[Master-Mechanic]

If you would pay attention, I did not say I bought Wranglers at Sears. I said I bought them at Walmart. I'm sorry if you don't care for Wranglers. If they were **** for you, well, maybe they are not meant for every body shape, although I don't know what your shape is.

I'm done with this subject and with you for this evening.

I agree, wranglers aren't for "every" shape, (round in his case)...Im done with him also