who builds the best 4banger?

[mdub]

This is something i've been thinking about, maybe i'll use one in a car project.

Can be old or modern, gas or diesel...

Needs to have:

• engine should be readly available
• parts readly available
• easy to work on
• torque to match or exceed HP.

Nice to have:

• interferance free
• twin overhead cam
• no fancy electronics

 

[porcupine73]

90's Subaru 2.2L might meet those requirements, not sure about the torque/HP though. They were interference free until and including 1996 model year.

If you specifically want DOHC and inteference free, that is tricky, usually you can still hit the intake and exhaust valves even if they won't hit the piston. 1996 Subaru 2.5L is DOHC but not inteference piston to valve anyway. Usually they need head gaskets though.

These engines people use in all sort so projects from aviation to dune buggies.

 

[nirion]

Cummins 4BT meets your needs except twin OHC

 

[tdkkart]

2.3L Ford from a Ranger or Mustang.

Pros:
Available
Tons of parts available OEM and aftermarket
Rugged and reliable as a rock

Cons:
Cast iron block and head=heavy
old technology mechanically
not nearly as **** looking as some.

 

[jjoel]

The BMW M44? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M44

 

[K'ledgeBldr]

Depending on the project (space requirements or limitations) a Subbie (horizontally opposed) or a VW (in-line).
There are literally 100's of thousands of them and aftermarket parts.

 

[Jawn]

Saturn 1.9L:

- Engine readily available
- Parts readily available
- Can't say about easy to work on beyond basic maintenance... but that much is easy.

- Interference? Don't know right offhand
- Some are DOHC (mine is not, sadly)
- Does not meet your "no fancy electronics" rule, like all modern car engines.

Flaws I see:
- Oil thirsty. Seems to be a common theme with these. Mine drinks a quart about every 1000-1500 miles (then again, it has about 187,000 miles on it).

Anyone want to chime in on the GM Ecotec? Seems like a solid little motor to me.

 

[Jagmandave]

I don't know the series numbers, and I don't know if you're looking for transverse or longitudinal arrangement, but....

Toyota...

Mitsubishi

Ford Zetec

MINI Cooper Supercharged or turbo charged

GM Ecotec (used both directions)

Miata or any number of Mazda sedans

For sheer availability via numbers, Ford or GM or Toyota

However, all of these modern engines have "fancy electronics" unless you're wanting to go back before the 90's, when you do that you no longer have the power and HP you do with modern powerplants.

Don't know about the interference thing, but why does that really matter, as long as it has a new belt or good chain?

 

[paranoid56]

i would say the good old toyota 22r

 

[kblazer87]

Cummins 4BT meets your needs except twin OHC

^^That one^^

 

[On1Wheel]

Without knowing your end use (car project is rather vague), what about a motorcycle engine? Old bikes are really easy to find with running engines and put out a lot of power for their weight. Very simple to work on, too.

 

[hotroddr]

VW indirect injected diesel 1.6 or 1.9. Not too hard to work on and run they forever on very little fuel. HP isnt too high but they put out a lot of torque. You can find them in an 80s or 90s VW rabbit, jetta, golf vanagon, etc.

 

[Nogglefish]

Need more info. My answer might be 4G63 or it might be 22R or it might be something goofy but I need more info.

 

[AMCguy]

Toyota 2TC.

 

[larry_g]

This is something i've been thinking about, maybe i'll use one in a car project.

Can be old or modern, gas or diesel...

Needs to have:

• torque to match or exceed HP.

[/LIST]

HP = TxN/5250

Where T = Torque (lbft)
N = Speed (rpm)

Torque will always be greater than HP at under 5250 rpm and less above that speed. HP is a mathematical function of torque and speed. You really need to define if you want a torque motor or a HP motor. Per your spec then any motor you choose and run below 5250 rpm then you will have a torque number larger than the hp number.

lg
no neat sig line

lg
no neat sig line

 

[porphyre]

Toyota 5SFE.

2.2 liter, DOHC. about 130hp / 145 tq. Definitely non-interference. Earlier ones were OBDI EFI w/ a distributor, so no fancy electronics. OBDI did have fancy gizmos available... cruise, ABS and traction control. Put into Camrys, so millions available. Autotragic and 5-speed versions available.

Don't know anything about later OBDII models.

Only thing about 'em is they're a waste to mod. Only way to get power out of 'em (barring forced induction) is with custom cams and you're still talking under 200 whp. Maybe 170whp/190tq on a good day. The main reason for grinding cams is to get a higher power band. These things have a power band like a big block. Redline is 6000+ but the peak is around 4500 and there's no power past 5k. Drag shift progression is like redline, 5700, 5200, 5000.

 

[VHF]

For an older motor with no electronics I would second the Toyota 22R, but it doesn't have a lot power by today's standards. 22R-E is the fuel injection version. 20R is the older 2.2 liter engine I had in my '76 Celica GT.

For something a little newer--fuel injection and DOHC with a little more power--but the same basic simplicity and reliablity as the Toyota I would go for a Nissan 2.4 liter KA series (KA24DE or simiilar) out of a rear-drive 240SX or front-drive Stanza/Altima.

P.S. Chevette motors don't have interference issues--the timing belt can break at speed with no damage--but I can't recommend them for any purpose! That has got to be the most uninspired OHC engine ever made!

 

[mdub]

Thanks for sharing, this is fun for me.

I guess i've withheld the project for fear of getting laughed at. I'm thinking an early jeep, CJ5 or earlier. Yeah, who puts a 4 in a jeep? Well, they did initially. I also know some of these might have 6s, and the AMC 6 is in my opinion pretty bulletproof, but i'm just looking to be different, so I'll definitely want a longitudinal compatible 4.

I've had bad luck with a VW 2.0, in my 99 jetta i lost a cylinder at 12k miles. so i don't think i'd ever consider one of those.

the toyota 4 may be a good one, i thought many of the toyotas were interference free. the subie would be cool, but i don't think that would work in a jeep. The ford maybe, and the dohc saturn could work.

what about the Nissan? The old hard body 4's are supposed to last forever.

 

[Scott65]

VW or Audi 1.8T or 2.0T. Both are reliable, though both are interference engines, readily available(especially the 1.8T) and and there are a ton of after market options if you have an interest. I have a 2000 Passat with 319,000 miles on it as proof of its relaibility. With an ecu chip it pushes about 200 HP and 207 ft. Lbs. of torque.

Sounds like a great project- have fun!!

 

[bobadame]

Old Volvo 2.3 liter is a tough simple engine. Single over head cam though. There are millions of them still running around. Run them until the timing belt snaps. Pull over and replace it. Takes less than an hour and you can do it with a couple of wrenches.

 

[G-Body]

My first choice would probably be an ecotec. They are very reliable, make great power, and are used in a lot of cars now so parts should be easy to get. I`m not sure how they are to work on, but I haven`t heard much so they can`t be too bad. It does have fancy electronics though.

My other choice would be a chevy 3.0L. Those things were used in everything from chevy II`s, to millions of boats, industrial equipment, etc. They run for ever, you should be able to find parts everywhere including marina`s if you can`t find an autoparts store. The only thing I don`t like about the 3.0L is that it isn`t very powerful. No computerized ignition/injection here, you can go really dark ages and run a breaker point distributor if you wanted to.

 

[mdub]

Old Volvo 2.3 liter is a tough simple engine. Single over head cam though. There are millions of them still running around. Run them until the timing belt snaps. Pull over and replace it. Takes less than an hour and you can do it with a couple of wrenches.

That might do nicely. DOHC is just a nice to have not one of my needs, SOC is nothing i'd shy away from. I had a buddy growing up who's family had two volvo wagon's i can't remember if they were diesel or not, but it looked like they had those things forever.

 

[tdkkart]

I guess i've withheld the project for fear of getting laughed at. I'm thinking an early jeep, CJ5 or earlier. Yeah, who puts a 4 in a jeep? Well, they did initially.

Well in that case, what about the 2.5 Iron Duke motor that they did indeed put in Jeeps, thousands of them?? Not OHC, but bullet proof as they come.

 

[RedAggie03]

Thanks for sharing, this is fun for me.

I guess i've withheld the project for fear of getting laughed at. I'm thinking an early jeep, CJ5 or earlier. Yeah, who puts a 4 in a jeep? Well, they did initially. I also know some of these might have 6s, and the AMC 6 is in my opinion pretty bulletproof, but i'm just looking to be different, so I'll definitely want a longitudinal compatible 4.

I've had bad luck with a VW 2.0, in my 99 jetta i lost a cylinder at 12k miles. so i don't think i'd ever consider one of those.

the toyota 4 may be a good one, i thought many of the toyotas were interference free. the subie would be cool, but i don't think that would work in a jeep. The ford maybe, and the dohc saturn could work.

what about the Nissan? The old hard body 4's are supposed to last forever.

I have a Nissan Hardbody that's over 20 years old now and it's great. There are a number of them on the Nissan forum I'm on that have 300k+ on the orig motor. The only issue with them is the timing chain guides wear and need replacing about every 75k-100k miles. I love mine though!

 

[colonel25]

I second the Volvo "red motor" very tough

 

[posaune]

Old Volvo 2.3 liter is a tough simple engine. Single over head cam though. There are millions of them still running around. Run them until the timing belt snaps. Pull over and replace it. Takes less than an hour and you can do it with a couple of wrenches.

I'll second this one. It meets all of your criteria except for the DOHC part, though you can fairly easily rectify that if you'd prefer two cams over non-interference. My current b230f has 286k on it- it is a great engine.

 

[On1Wheel]

Going in a jeep, huh? Well, I'd stay away from anything gas. You need low end grunt in a Jeep, so find a small diesel. A lot of people are taking the diesels out of the Jeep Libertys that are 4 cyl and swapping them into wranglers. That certainly doesn't fit your requirements, but it's a popular swap. Nissan has made small diesels for years and even had some in non-civilian Jeeps for a while. The Patrol had it as well as other models. Parts may be hard to come by. I don't know.

There are tons of 4 cyl wranglers running around that could be easily gotten, so that's an option, I suppose. I guess that's what tdkkart was talking about.

One thing to keep in mind is that if you plan to use the vehicle on the road legally, you can't put an engine in it that's older than what it's going into. At least not in Texas. Probably not a problem with a really old CJ5.

 

[ohmfab]

Third on the Volvo 2.3 SOHC. Only 100hp on a good day but very reliable.

My dad has an 87 240 wagon. The original engine had 340k miles when we replaced it with a junkyard engine which had 80k. That second engine has over 450k or so now.

Also on the timing belt note, it is a non interference engine. As bobadame stated, just pull over and replace it!

If you find one from a 240 then the entire engine harness is in the engine bay and would be easy to pull. There are also performance upgrades available from IPD (www.ipdusa.com) such as cams.

If you want to keep a chrysler engine in it you could use one of the normally aspirated DSM engines from a second gen eclipse. They were 2.3 or 2.4 I think.

Omer

 

[5lima30]

+1 on the Toyota 22R a very bullet proof and easy to work on.

 

[gmein]

I'm with niriron on the Case/Cummins 4BT. With a SAE Bell housing, you will have many choices for transmissions. If you want they even make a 3BT. Where I live in a big farm area, they are everywhere you look. They were standard in thousands of postal AMC vans, stationary engines and the bread trucks Lot of possibilities and parts are gonna be around for a long time. You do not have to go to Dodge for any of these parts when the Case dealer stocks them. Good luck

 

[gmein]

Forgot to mention that if you are looking for these as either manual or electric pumps(fuel delivery) there are gobs of these things that have a Bosch manual pump on them. Works well for me. We drive 2 Dodge pickups with the 5.9BT and another is in a 73 Ford 4x4 with the manual pump.. We are running 5 speed manuals. No computer issues, no low voltage wiring issues, nobody but you can shut it off. "Meaning" (Big Brother)

 

[steer08]

BMW M44 is iterferance but has a timing chain so no belt breakage. Ford 2.3 is indistructable and readily available. Pinto 2.0 to Ranger 2.5.

 

[nonhog]

Cool thread. I've thought about swapping out the B20 in my wifes 66 Amazon
estate (Volvo wagon) for a Quad 4 or 2.3 Ford both would out do the power and gas mileage of the B20. The 2.3 being more reliable.
Still thinking on that. As for Toyota 22R I'd prefer the 20R with the stronger
T-chain(a weak link in the 22R)

For now the B20 will stay. Its heavy and not real powerful but strong!

 

[Shadowdog500]

This is something i've been thinking about, maybe i'll use one in a car project.

Can be old or modern, gas or diesel...

Needs to have:

• engine should be readly available
• parts readly available
• easy to work on
• torque to match or exceed HP.

Nice to have:

• interferance free
• twin overhead cam
• no fancy electronics

Torque is always higher than HP below 5,252 RPM, equal to HP at 5,252 RPM, and less than HP above 5,252 RPM.

HP = torque X RPM / 5252

Chris

 

[purplezr2]

VW or Audi 1.8T or 2.0T. Both are reliable, though both are interference engines, readily available(especially the 1.8T) and and there are a ton of after market options if you have an interest. I have a 2000 Passat with 319,000 miles on it as proof of its relaibility. With an ecu chip it pushes about 200 HP and 207 ft. Lbs. of torque.

Sounds like a great project- have fun!!

Most people would not mention that engine in this thread. But I also like the 1.8T

Scott, your not on passatworld by chance are you.


4bt cummins gets my vote

 

[stripped]

Any Ford 1.6 up. As basic or exotic as you would want. Parts everywhere and pretty cost effective.

 

[Dale01]

my vote is any version of GM'S Ecotech, they have been around for a while,can produce gobs of power or be a fuel sipping miser depending on your setup and programming

 

[ev2mopar]

2.3L Ford from a Ranger or Mustang.

Pros:
Available
Tons of parts available OEM and aftermarket
Rugged and reliable as a rock

Cons:
Cast iron block and head=heavy
old technology mechanically
not nearly as **** looking as some.

I agree. This engine is relatively lightweight and strong. Oval trackers used them, Ford put turbos on 'em, the aftermarket still has great parts available and they are super cheap.
I have personally seen many run 250-300 hp with a decent turbo, production head...on pump gas.

 

[79firebird]

GM Ecotec i had one in a cav i use to drive . still ran when i sold the car it had 412,000 K on it when i sold it still ran good as the day i got the car

 

[some zilch]

another vote for cummins 4bt