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Wrinkled Black Oxide Wrench

eschoendorff

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Of course.

I haven't used them professionally since about 1999. It's difficult to keep them greasy these days. The old Blue Points just lie there in the box and don't rust, though.


kinda chaps my *** that the Snap On socket that I bought (which cost more than an entire set of impact sockets from HF) is developing surface rust, where my cheap HF impacts - that I don't clean or take much care of - have no signs of rust at all. :wtf:
 
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Stuey

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I've got an answer for you, and you might not like it!

What you're seeing is definitely the surface texture of the wrench, created during casting. I have a photo of a piece of cast steel, and will try to upload it later.
 

GDA

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The wrench posted looks fairly similar to about half of my shorty metric set 6-19. Most are smooth but some have some krinkle to them on certain parts of the wrenches.

IMO the finish looks cool
 

russlaferrera

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To get rid of the ruff finish. Cook the wrench in oil with potatoes and onions, in a cast iron skillet. You will build up a crust, as you season the skillet you will season the wrench.

The wrench will not rust. It will be very smooth and if you ever get hungry ....you can lick it.
 

chad s

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I've got an answer for you, and you might not like it!

What you're seeing is definitely the surface texture of the wrench, created during casting. I have a photo of a piece of cast steel, and will try to upload it later.

Snap on wrenches arnt cast, they are forged.
 

Stuey

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Snap on wrenches arnt cast, they are forged.
The heads and sides? Yep, they're forged. The front of the body whose texture is in question? Cast. Forging can NOT create that texture.

My source - an experienced metallurgist.

Here's an image of another piece of steel that was sand cast. The texture is not created by the casting process, but the inverted texture is. I printed Merkava's image from a networked printer so it came out a bit funky and oversized. From it, you can see that there are some hexagonal impressions in the texture. My colleague pointed this out because I too questioned that this surface of the tool was cast.
0408081202mediumcv3.jpg


My colleague complained that if any component of a tool is forged, the manufacturer will right away add "forged" in marketing and advertising the tool. In this case, the important aspects of the Snap-On tool are forged. Ironically, a lot of cheap as **** tools that say "forged" are only forged where the stamping is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sand_casting
http://www.matcotools.com/ProductImages/7189.jpg "heat treated, cast steel" you can see some similiarities in the texture.
 

Chris Adams

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What I'm wondering is if all the SO industrial wrenches look that rough; this wrench is brand new supposedly. :dunno:

Sunday I saw a complete (well, almost 8 mm was missing) set of these Industrial Snap-On wrenches at the swap meet.
Vendor sells lots of Snapy stuff.
Someone else hated the finish as much as you did.
They were completely painted RED. Nice finish on the red paint but it had chipped off in places, of course, so you could see the wrinkly black surface.
He wanted 65 bucks or so for them, missing that one wrench but in a Snap-On wrench wrap. I thought about it but let him keep them.
 

Chris Adams

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Did this thread have an effect on that decision? :D

Honestly, no.
I would have 'snapped' them up (sorry:bounce:) if they had been chrome at that price, but the industrial finish just doesn't thrill me in a wrench set. I would have removed the red paint.
Still, maybe if they were shot with chrome or aluminum paint?


Probably not.
 

Stuey

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BO coating is intended to increase the tool's ability to soak up oil and resist wear and tear. If it looks good, that's just an unintentional bonus.

I'm all for pretty tools, though.
 
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Merkava_4

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GF731_1.jpg


GF731_2.jpg


GF731_4.jpg


GF731_5.jpg


This eBay ratchet certainly has a nice smooth black oxide finish; they just didn't give a damn when they made my wrench. :wtf:
 

Stuey

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This eBay ratchet certainly has a nice smooth black oxide finish; they just didn't give a damn when they made my wrench. :wtf:
Is it just your wrench, or every single black oxide wrench they produce?

If it's all their black oxide wrenches, get over it!

The texture is due to casting. Grinding and polishing those surfaces smooth would have been costly without providing any operational difference. Would you spend several dollars more on an already expensive wrench? Think about how much more expensive it would cost for a wrench set!

I'll say it again. Those textures are due to casting, and there's nothing that can be done about it aside from grinding and polishing the tool prior to oxidation.
 

scurvy

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The texture is due to casting.
That finish is probably partially from the forging die and partially from bead blasting afterwards.

Any decent wrench will be forged. Casting won't get you the same strength levels nor the tolerances of a forging operation.
 

Stuey

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That finish is probably partially from the forging die and partially from bead blasting afterwards.

Any decent wrench will be forged. Casting won't get you the same strength levels nor the tolerances of a forging operation.
No wrench needs tolerances or stength along that direction. The forging process is definitely done at the head and box ends, and likely along the direction of rotation. It is probably that the wrench benefits from the stength of forging the sides, so that casting the wrench's large flat surfaces doesn't result in any diminished qualities.
 
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scurvy

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It is probably that the wrench benefits from the stength of forging the sides, so that casting the wrench's large flat surfaces doesn't result in any diminished qualities.
Almost all wrenches are 100% forged. I'm an engineer. I've helped design products and something shaped like a wrench would be forged all the time. It's not cost effective to cast a wrench handle then forge the ends on it - that's two operations. Wrenches start out as a round blank of material that's heated, then hot forged into their final shape.

I ran this by a fellow engineer who used to work for a company that makes tools in the USA and often come in green plastic boxes. I won't mention any names but this company begins with S and ends with K. ;) He said every single one of their hand wrenches was drop forged just as I described and no f'n way would any part of them be cast.

On a slightly different tangent, forging does result in a metal that often has better characteristics for the type of loading hand wrenches are put in, as the metal grains are pushed out of shape along the irregular boundaries instead of being cut if they were machined. Any wrench that is cast would require finish machining around the ends that grip fasteners and would be far too expensive (especially if it were cast to the tolerances needed in good quality wrenches), not to mention there would be a parting line along the middle of the tool.

Trust me (and chad s and Merkava_4). These (and all other) wrenches are forged. I have a pile of forged parts right next to me that have a very similar surface finish, black oxided to boot!
 

Stuey

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Like I said, I'm going by what I was told the other day.

Describe how the forging process creates that texture.

If the entire wrench is forged in the same manner, why do the head and box ends have a significantly different texture? From the limited point of view in the photo, it looks like the open ended side was forged from a lateral direction. This would account for more precision and better strength than if it were forged in a "flat" orientation.

Merkava - could you take a few more photos? Maybe some macro shots of the texture? =)

It's not that I'm unwilling to let this die but I just cannot cast away the opinion I was given until I'm convinced it's wrong.
 

Mike83

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It's not that I'm unwilling to let this die but I just cannot cast away the opinion I was given until I'm convinced it's wrong.

:deadhorse

Even the cheapest foreign made tools say "drop forged" or something similar. Casting a wrench would leave a nice ridge along the handle, flats and box end that would need removal. Removal = Money
 

scurvy

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Describe how the forging process creates that texture.
Simply put, it's part of the "flat" sections of the forging die and the way the hot blank adheres to it. The dies are not perfectly smooth - for industrial finish wrenches they are allowed to have a rougher surface finish than the dies for consumer wrenches. There may also be a bead blasting operation afterward that causes the surface finish.

Look at the open end of the wrench. Notice the parallel vertical lines on the inside surfaces? That's from a forging die. Those would also follow around the entire circumference of the tool handle but are ground off in a quick finishing operation.

If the entire wrench is forged in the same manner, why do the head and box ends have a significantly different texture?
They look the same to me. I would have to see the wrench in person or have better pictures of both ends to say conclusively that they're different. The open & box ends of the dies themselves will have tighter toleranced & more closely machined features. This alone may account for the differences you see.

Personally, I like the wrinkled texture. Not so crazy about black oxide as a surface treatment, however, as it's basically just black rust.

It's not that I'm unwilling to let this die but I just cannot cast away the opinion I was given until I'm convinced it's wrong.
Oi, that's a groaner. If you really want the last word on this, contact Snap-On themselves and ask. I'm sure they'd be more than happy to tell you.
 
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eschoendorff

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The only other reason I could imagine for th forging process to leave that rough finish is if th forging dies are not well maintained (a la Sears Craftsman).
 

Stuey

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I doubt that Snap-On would go through through the trouble of describing their manufacturing process.

Okay, I'll likely let it die. (for now) There's no point in my struggling in a debate based on someone else's opinion, however knowledgable in metallurgy they may be despite a possible lack of tool design awareness. =)

(Thanks for taking the time to answer my q's even though you were probably just trying to shut me up)
 

autoace

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All Snap-on industrial finish wrenches are a little rough, Cornwell industrial finish wrenches are smooth.:bounce:
 

supertooljunkie

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I have a Snap On 3/4" deep impact socket that I bought new off the truck... now it's covered in surface rust. Never touched it with a roloc or steel wool or anything. Any ideas on how to deal with the rust? i have it soaking in some ATF right now...

I have some industrial finish wrenches that are used in damp/wet locations. When they developed surface rust, I hit them lightlywith a brass wire brush on the grinder and shot them with a rattle can auto clear coat. That has held up for a year so far.
 
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Merkava_4

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Good Lord this is an old thread. :eek2:

This thread is back from the time when I still didn't know how to adjust the white balance on the camera. :D
 
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