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So HF emailed me...

Stuey

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Someone with an HF email addie emailed me, asking how I choose tools to review and if I accept proposals. They said they have a client in the tool industry and were doing research on product review sites.

I told them the truth, that I'll need to think about the question a bit, but that I usually focus on intermediate and pro-grade tools.

On occasion I will feature HF coupons on the blog b/c a number of people ask for them. But thus far I haven't really discussed many of their tools there.

I am optimistic at the chance for dialog with insiders, but am hesitant to open myself up to any potential review opportunities. If it comes to that, maybe I'll ask one or more GJers to help me out w/ an objective guest review.

Anyways, I thought this was interesting and worth sharing with you guys. I've seen a huge increase in online and print marketing by HF in the past 1-2 years, and I suppose it was only a matter of time before they turned their attention to smaller fish like tool bloggers.
 
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Chrislols

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This is going to be very interesting.

I've spent a few grand @ HF, I'd definitely be up for being part of a test/review group.
 

ajchien

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Hey Stuey,

It would be good for the tool community if you did review some of HFs tools. Especially if they attach no strings to bias you in any way.

A long time ago, I was part of a table tennis equipment review group. It was interesting, because we often got preproduction samples of stuff. It was not a one man review. Often we got multiple samples, that were sent to Olympic athletes, down to your lower level amateur player, to send unbiased reviews back to one person who then tried to collectively average out the experience. Wouldn't it be neat to be able to get a pro contractor, a pro mechanic, an avid DIYer, an inexperienced DIYer, and a collectors review of stuff?
 

Greatbear

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Sounds to me like a good idea. I'd welcome reviews and hands-on tests of various HF stuff. I've tried carefully to find the better items there, but not everything is going to be worth it. I've found a few obscure winners that I'd like to recommend as well. I've gone as far as disassembling the instruments and such to see how they are made inside and out. There are some gems in the rough.

Keep us posted!
 

JMcFly

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Totally do it. HF's Pittsburgh pro line is pretty good for the average user and they seem to stand up to pro use. I am always shopping for tools there. I do my fair share of wrenching and have no complains about the tools.

I'd love to help as well!
 

woody 73

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Dear Stuey,

Hi My name is Mr. Eric Smidt CEO of HF and I want to take this opportunity today to welcome you on are payroll here at HF Tools. What a great pleasure to have you onboard as a tool consultant because we here at HF only use the finest steel from the Chinese; and are workers are always very happy we know this because they are always smiling.:)

Just think Stuey (I do hope you don't mind me calling you by your first name);soon we will take over the world:evil:

I can just see it now, so what is the name of your web group was it the Ford Garage, chevy or something like that? Oh never mind we can reach more people once you are onboard!

Do you like donuts with your morning crissants or maybe for lunch we can have some surf & turf and wash it down with a bottle of wine.

All the best.

Eric
 

crashbumper

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I'd love to see you test their tools.

When advertising started appearing in Hot Rod and Street Rodder, those same magazines started using and reviewing their tools; which I had never seen before. Seemed a bit fishy.
 

pipsters

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Only thing I would say about reviews, is I am always skeptical of the ones that do not actually go purchase the product. Getting sent the product means the company cherry picks the one they want you to look at.
 
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Stuey

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I'd love to see you test their tools.

When advertising started appearing in Hot Rod and Street Rodder, those same magazines started using and reviewing their tools; which I had never seen before. Seemed a bit fishy.

It's not just you - I saw articles at several of those mag's websites that discussed a visit to a HF testing facility. All of the articles seemed fishy and too positively crafted. One discussed how the tools were inexpensive but not crappy.

Yes do it, but you need to charge them a fee.


$1999.99 per tool, plus a free flashlight?
lol. I know that some people charge fees to consider reviews. To me $$ would muddy things and cross the line between content and advertisement.

Only thing I would say about reviews, is I am always skeptical of the ones that do not actually go purchase the product. Getting sent the product means the company cherry picks the one they want you to look at.

Some of the tools I review are purchased, some are loaners, some are sent without needing to be returned. Certain product types are just way too cost-prohibitive for me to purchase for review. I don't mind having to return a tool, but usually prefer to give samples away or to a non-profit post-review. Some I hold on to for comparison and future coverage. This prevents my having to shell out $$ for a sample I returned too early but may need again for a freelance piece - that was a $250 mistake I am not eager to repeat.

So far as I can tell, I haven't received any cherry-picked models yet, not that I can tell for sure, but I typically examine packing slips and whatnot to see where something originates. Most of the time they come straight from a warehouse, with direct-from-PR samples being quite rare. That, and I've received a fair share of flawed or slightly imperfect tools from different manufacturers, leading to an earned trust.

I also keep an eye on user reviews to see if buyers complain about a common flaw that my sample did not exhibit.
 

BevoZ06

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I think all of the members, but particularly the newer and less experienced such as I, could benefit from your reviews. I haven't been here long, but long enough to know I can trust that your reviews are objective and authoritative.

Thanks for all I have learned from you so far.
 

Jim85IROC

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Sep 15, 2010
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Having some honest HF tool reviews would be a great way fir us to separate the diamonds from the coal. Let's face it... If it says "Snap On", you can be pretty confident in the quality without a review, but with HF stuff, reviews really help.
 

Carl B

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I'm not really sure just what a "review" is. The word usually indicates to me - a pretty subjective report

Personally - I'd like to see tools inspected and tested in a consistent manor. All put to the same close inspection, measurement, and strength tests. All of which would require some pretty expensive test equipment.

It would be interesting to me, to see if a Snap-On wrench is actually "stronger" than one of the Pittsburg Pro's and if so by how much. I'd also like to see how much torque or tension the guy with exceptionally strong arms - can actually put on that tool. How much torque can a "stuck" fastener take before it fails, and twists off.

In short - I'd need accurate facts and figures gathered consistently from calibrated machines. Otherwise it's just all talk and opinion.

FWIW,
Carl B.
 

Mickey O

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When it comes to testing Harbor Freight tools I'm your man, send the tool and a sledge hammer directly to me.
 

diesel research

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I told them the truth, that I'll need to think about the question a bit, but that I usually focus on intermediate and pro-grade tools.

So this means we should expect a more objective review than the "good enough, gets the job done" type reviews usually associated with the brand?

Like any pertinent info that might make the tool standout above another brand for more than just sheer price?
 

t100

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reviews, what reviews?


don't we have a long *** thread about HF tools on GJ already? let me read it and be done with it.
 
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woody 73

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Dear Stuey,

I sense some bad feelings from poster #18 the one you call mickey O, perhaps we should send him on a nice tour of our HF plant in Guangzou on the Red sea the clean air and all our smiling workers will cheer him up;)

Oh I forgot to tell you about the 401K remind me in our next visit;I am sure you will love seeing our new and improved screwdrivers, they come with a guarantee of 24/7 yes you heard it first from me 24 hours of hard use by 7 screaming children under the age of 6.:thumbup:

Stuey I am leaving you my personal phone # if you have any questions
1-800-everyone loves HF

Sincerely Eric
 

Davefr

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The best tool reviews come from multiple GJ members using tools day in and day out. There's generally not a shortage of these when it comes to HF.
 

kythri

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I say do it. If you're not beholden to them, and you can reasonably ensure that you're not getting a cherry-picked tool, why not? A good tool is a good tool, and a good cheap tool is even better.
 

woody 73

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Dear stuey Hi,

Eric again oh I can assure you that it is not a trap like poster #24 is making a reference about and again if you give me poster # 23's address along with # 24's address I am sure we here at HF can send both men some nice tools with a small bag of money.

Stuey you are the Man.

Best regards.

Eric:thumbup:
 

Basskiller

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We already have a HF pass/fail thread that has many different reviewers and a wide variety of tools. Don't waste your time reviewing what HF sends you. Also there are other sites that have the same type of thread.
 

porphyre

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Stuey - Do it. The worst that can happen is they don't send you anything to review.


So this means we should expect a more objective review than the "good enough, gets the job done" type reviews usually associated with the brand?

Like any pertinent info that might make the tool standout above another brand for more than just sheer price?

You're going to be disappointed, then. HF tools are designed to provide basic features at a cheap price. "Good enough" at a cheap price is their philosophy.
 
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Stuey

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That's one of my primary concerns - that I wouldn't be able to maintain as objective a standpoint as with other brands, and that I wouldn't be able to test the tools enough for a confident recommendation.

Quantitiative testing has its own issues - one test reflects the data for one sample. For example, max-torque testing does not tell you much useful info about a tool, despite the marketing claims many companies make about their tools being stronger or whatnot.

Similarly, I don't care to test drills to see which drives in the most screws. 250 screws vs 300 screws is not a huge difference when a battery can be fully recharged in 25 minutes.

I tend to review products I don't like very, very slowly. I have limited time, and when I need to use a tool, I need it to provide maximum comfort and performance. I can mix in mid to high-quality tools into my day with no problem, but once I come across a flaw or less-than ideal feature/spec, I toss the sample to the back of the queue and grab one of my personal tools.

I'm still waiting to hear back from them - maybe they'll decide I'm too much of an A-H to deal with.
 

Butters

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Let me ask you this Stuey (and I assume you buy the tools now with your own money out of need or curiosity):

When you buy an expensive tool, isn't there a part of you that wants it to be good?

My point is, it's almost impossible to be 100% objective. I applaud you for trying and having more journalistic integrity than most major news networks.

I think as long as you disclose the potential conflict of interest and actually recognize it, you're doing about as much as can be expected.

Really, the only conflict I see is not wanting to give bad reviews because you will get "cut off." But it's HF, not Snap On! Would the threat of being cut off from free HF tools that cost barely more than free be that big of a conflict?
 

Kent Skinner

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So, it's OK if DeWalt sends you a free tool (made in China). But several members here think you're a paid shill for HF if they send you a tool?

WTF is with people here? Why can't a guy who writes a tool review blog review a tool without people acting like dicks?

This place would be so much better if the foaming at the mouth, anti-HF at any cost ranters were gone. EVERYBODY KNOWS that they make cheap tools. EVERYBODY KNOWS that they don't compete with Snap-On (or whatever brand of truck tools you fantasize about).

Let. It. Go.
It makes you look stupid.

Stuey - review what you want. If people like your blog, they'll read it.
 
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FWIW Kent I complain about Snap On, and any other brand that outsources. I bash HF a lot after all they only bring in cheap **** tools, they have put a decent tool store in my county out of business, make Sears lower their quality(Evolv and that generic **** by their registers) even further to compete and other stuff. I will admit they do a few things right though first off they are honest about COO. All HF tools I've seen have a COO on them also their name implys its imports. Irwin and Snap On seem to think its cool to outsource and leave COO off of things and say they are American.
 

Jeeprz!

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Stuey, my take on it would be if they send you new tools from their R n D for your feedback, that those tools would be of a higher quality then the mass production versions that would end up on the shelf.
And, if they send you current production then I would assume they would be at least checked over if not cherry-picked because they are looking for the positive feedback that your established website would give.
If you are interested in reviewing their tools what about offering them an aternative solution that would be a more honest and unbiased review, like if they want you to review a 1/2 pro line ratchet then have them send you an REGULAR hf gift card in the approx. amount of the ratchet's out the door price. Then you can then go to a store of your choice and not only purchase the tool off the shelf (and not be out any cash of your own), but you can start your review at the store by comparing the quality of the ones on the shelf instead of only receiving one sample.
Sort of like this senario;
HF asked me to review their $18.00 pro line 1/2 in ratchet, so they sent me a $20 hf gift card and I went to X HF store to purchase one myself. Out of the 10 ratchets on the shelf the quaility looked "pretty consistant" or "all over the place" etc. and do your review from that point which would be more inline with anyones real world experience.
First, you wouldn't be out any cash, and this way would also void all the "they send him cherry-picked tools" arguments as well. If you get to keep the tools or return them is something you could work out with them.
 

NUTTSGT

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That make good sense Jeeprz. I too would worry about what they sent as it being something QA'd before it was sent out.

Stuey, you could always try it, see what happens and drop them if you don't care for their business practices.
 

JSBriggs

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Its a trap.


general-ackbar-demotivational-poster.jpg



-Jeff
 

kythri

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I bash HF a lot after all they only bring in cheap **** tools,

So any HF tool that's gotten generally positive reviews (Hello, Earthquake Impact Guns!) are, what? Faked? By people too stupid to know the difference?

I think you'd be surprised by the names behind some of those reviews.

they have put a decent tool store in my county out of business,

No, the customers of that "decent tool store" did.

make Sears lower their quality(Evolv and that generic **** by their registers) even further to compete and other stuff.

Yeah, that'd be Sears and their stupid marketing decisions, attempting to compete with HF rather than advertising and emphasizing their brands.

I will admit they do a few things right though first off they are honest about COO. All HF tools I've seen have a COO on them also their name implys its imports. Irwin and Snap On seem to think its cool to outsource and leave COO off of things and say they are American.

At least this statement isn't hogwash.

Why do people continually misplace their blame? Why does a successful capitalist venture become the one at fault for this?

Here's another fact: HF, Walmart, all of these successful businesses that the neocommunists like to blame for the economy couldn't have happened if your elected officials hadn't passed legislation that allowed the cheap imports in the first place.

Place the blame correctly.
 

kythri

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Sort of like this senario;
HF asked me to review their $18.00 pro line 1/2 in ratchet, so they sent me a $20 hf gift card and I went to X HF store to purchase one myself. Out of the 10 ratchets on the shelf the quaility looked "pretty consistant" or "all over the place" etc. and do your review from that point which would be more inline with anyones real world experience.
First, you wouldn't be out any cash, and this way would also void all the "they send him cherry-picked tools" arguments as well. If you get to keep the tools or return them is something you could work out with them.

That's a fantastic idea, but you know the anti-HF folks (like those that have already shown up) would just accuse HF of finding Stuey's address, and then beefing up the QA for all shipments to stores within 100 miles of him so that they could skew the results of the test.
 

lwlobo

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I think a tool review site needs to address HF tools. HF and ther tools are part of nearly every tool users' experience.

Readers need to see someone comparing HF to Fein multi-tools, hear trusted feedback on HF pliers and scredrivers, etc. You can't really be honest about tools and pretend HF doesn't exist, especially since there really aren't any major power tools available from the US anymore.

If your aim is to provde useful, unbiased information to tool users, you need to deal with HF tools. If your aim to have a little personal fun dealing only with high end tools and the most brand obsessive 5% of tool users, ignore HF. If you want to include mid-level tools, I think you'll have to include some HF items.

Good luck figuring it out, Stuey, I'll stay tuned to see how you decide to approach it.
 

Jeeprz!

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lwlobo +1, I agree 100%
reguardless if your a HF lover or hater, reading the GJ threads I don't think anyone can deny that HF is now a major player at least at the consumer/DIY level.
 
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Stuey

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Let me ask you this Stuey (and I assume you buy the tools now with your own money out of need or curiosity):

When you buy an expensive tool, isn't there a part of you that wants it to be good?

My point is, it's almost impossible to be 100% objective. I applaud you for trying and having more journalistic integrity than most major news networks.

I think as long as you disclose the potential conflict of interest and actually recognize it, you're doing about as much as can be expected.

Really, the only conflict I see is not wanting to give bad reviews because you will get "cut off." But it's HF, not Snap On! Would the threat of being cut off from free HF tools that cost barely more than free be that big of a conflict?

Sometimes I buy tools, sometimes I receive samples. If I'm sent a sample of something I need, I go out and buy a copy for personal use. This actually happened recently.

And yes, if purchase an expensive tool I expect it to be downright perfect. Features aside, I expect for perfect materials, build and finish quality. That's why I refuse to buy any Gearwrench pliers anymore - several years apart and the Danaher-made Double-X pliers are still embarrassingly sloppy for "professional" tools. Meanwhile my $6 Stanleys are still perfect. They're simply featured, but satisfyingly made.

I don't worry about being cut-off since I don't need anything from anyone. If I need something, I buy it. If I get cut-off or blacklisted, there are plenty of friendly tool bloggers who will share info and images with me that I can also link to. Some PR people might hate me a little bit, but product managers are usually happy for any feedback, even if it's negative.

I chatted with Kobalt/Lowes about how crappy I thought their Muti-Drive Wrench was, and Stanley/Dewalt people about crappy I thought their Bostitch adjustable wrench was. We discussed it civilly and then moved on.

My obligation is to readers and visitors, not any brand, PR agency or marketing dept.

So, it's OK if DeWalt sends you a free tool (made in China). But several members here think you're a paid shill for HF if they send you a tool?

WTF is with people here? Why can't a guy who writes a tool review blog review a tool without people acting like dicks?

This place would be so much better if the foaming at the mouth, anti-HF at any cost ranters were gone. EVERYBODY KNOWS that they make cheap tools. EVERYBODY KNOWS that they don't compete with Snap-On (or whatever brand of truck tools you fantasize about).

Let. It. Go.
It makes you look stupid.

Stuey - review what you want. If people like your blog, they'll read it.
Thanks for coming to my defense! I saw Woody's comments as poking fun at HF rather than myself, and didn't take offense. In any case, I'm open to feedback of all kind.

Stuey, my take on it would be if they send you new tools from their R n D for your feedback, that those tools would be of a higher quality then the mass production versions that would end up on the shelf.
And, if they send you current production then I would assume they would be at least checked over if not cherry-picked because they are looking for the positive feedback that your established website would give.
If you are interested in reviewing their tools what about offering them an aternative solution that would be a more honest and unbiased review, like if they want you to review a 1/2 pro line ratchet then have them send you an REGULAR hf gift card in the approx. amount of the ratchet's out the door price. Then you can then go to a store of your choice and not only purchase the tool off the shelf (and not be out any cash of your own), but you can start your review at the store by comparing the quality of the ones on the shelf instead of only receiving one sample.
Sort of like this senario;
HF asked me to review their $18.00 pro line 1/2 in ratchet, so they sent me a $20 hf gift card and I went to X HF store to purchase one myself. Out of the 10 ratchets on the shelf the quaility looked "pretty consistant" or "all over the place" etc. and do your review from that point which would be more inline with anyones real world experience.
First, you wouldn't be out any cash, and this way would also void all the "they send him cherry-picked tools" arguments as well. If you get to keep the tools or return them is something you could work out with them.
That is a good idea, but can be difficult to implement. I also inspect every sample I receive to see if it's been handled before, and in most cases they appear untouched.

Most of the time what I receive is sent direct from a fulfillment warehouse with little possibility of someone testing, tampering with or hand-picking a sample.

Right now there's only one major house brand that arranges for in-store pickup of samples. That's pretty much impossible for anyone else to do since I deal with brands a lot of the time. I prefer to deal with brands over retailers since retailers might object to my posting to better prices elsewhere. I don't like there being strings attached in any way whatsoever since that can potentially complicate my ability to stay honest and neutral.

I think a tool review site needs to address HF tools. HF and ther tools are part of nearly every tool users' experience.

Readers need to see someone comparing HF to Fein multi-tools, hear trusted feedback on HF pliers and scredrivers, etc. You can't really be honest about tools and pretend HF doesn't exist, especially since there really aren't any major power tools available from the US anymore.

If your aim is to provde useful, unbiased information to tool users, you need to deal with HF tools. If your aim to have a little personal fun dealing only with high end tools and the most brand obsessive 5% of tool users, ignore HF. If you want to include mid-level tools, I think you'll have to include some HF items.

Good luck figuring it out, Stuey, I'll stay tuned to see how you decide to approach it.

Unfortunately, you're absolutely right. Right now I don't have the time to be as cross-spectrum as I would like to be. With limited time I find myself having to turn down review samples as it is. But at one point I'm going to need to start featuring more HF tools. Maybe I'll head down to the local store with $100 and see what I can walk away with, with the plan to roll out reviews over the span of a month or so.

One other hesitation is that I cannot tell how much of a demand there is for HF previews or reviews. With limited time I try to focus on tools that attract the most interest. A lot of the people that patronize HF might not be the type to search for tool reviews online. From what I've seen, beginners and more casual tool users rarely search for tool reviews online, except for certain tools that are advertised on TV.
 
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