electrician with a electrical question

[slacker garage shop]

As it says I am a 20 year licensed electrician but that don't mean I know it all. Been dealing with this for a while and haven't narrowed the problem down. When I have my T8 lights turned on that are near my stereo I lose the station. I added a powered antenna in the attic but it didn't help at all. They are wired on different circuits and I even tried putting them on opposite phases but nothing helps.
Next problem. Everything time I turn on my powder coater or the air compressor kicks on my wireless router loses signal and i have to reset it. These are all on different circuits also.
Hmm what's going on here?

 

[pattenp]

One thing to ask on the T8's are they commercial units or residential. Residential ballast are made to reduce interference.

Where is the router physically located in relationship to the powder coater and compressor?

 

[MoonRise]

Fluorescent lights are 'interesting' bits of electrics and electronics to make the 'bulb' light up.

All those electrics (not so much) and electronics (more likely) can cause electrical and/or RFI problems with other electronic devices.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_frequency_interference

Short of going through with some high-falutin' RFI test gear, best 'fix' is to move the lights and/or the stereo.

Either that or rig up some RFI shielding (Faraday cage) around the radio/stereo and see if that fixes the problem. Probably have to shield the antenna wire(s) for some distance away from the lights as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage

btw, the antenna is not the only way that RFI from the lights can mess up the radio/stereo.

As to the wireless router, could be RFI as well or just a router 'sensitive' to power-line voltage dips.

YMMV.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I'll bet the powder coater and compressor are 240V. When they kick on they draw down the voltage enough on both legs that the router glitches (cheap power supply; A couple of bigger caps inside and it wouldn't be a problem).

 

[Jagmandave]

I have a similar situation in my garage with the radio, interestingly, when I get close to it it clears right up - walk away and it looses the signal or goes to static. So I grab the antenna and move it around some and of course, the sound is fine, since I'm standing next to it or holding the antenna, but when I walk away - sometimes it holds the signal for a few hours, and sometimes it looses it right away again.

So what's going on here? Am I somehow shielding the RFI with my body?

 

[PRH44]

I would have to agree with theoldwizard. The voltage could be droping below what the router can keep going.

You guys are taking me way back. Jagmandave you are becoming the antenna. If you get better recption when you stand next to the radio it means you need more antenna.

FM is line of sight you need to get higher outside is better

 

[PRH44]

Some of you may remember how we used to put foil on the antenna? That gave us more antenna. Sometimes we would hold it while we watched TV or listen to the radio.
If you have an aluminum sided house it acts as a shield
I am old you just made me realize it

 

[PRH44]

There are two different types of antenna cable, flat two-conductor wire known as “twin lead” that is 300W, or round plastic coated wire that is known as “coaxial” or “coax” that is 50-75W. Coax is what cable companies use, and is a much better cable, but it is more expensive. You’ll have to decide which to use if you are installing a new antenna or cable. Other than conducting a stronger signal, coax is useful in situations requiring the elimination of interference cause by nearby electric motors, computers, etc.

 

[PRH44]

piont your exterior antennas toward the radio tower you are receiving from also

 

[PRH44]

slack you may want to move your anntenna to the roof away from interference

 

[Gary S]

After 40 years in the electronics industry, I can answer your first question with two words. RF interference. Solving that problem isn't as easy.
Pretty much all electronic and electrical equipment generates an RF field. The newer florescent lights have electronics that operate at high frequencies to eliminate flicker and give better low temperature performance. But, that high frequency often falls into the bandwidth of other equipment like your radio.
The same goes for your air compressor/powder coater. Electric motors are a strong source of wide band RF interference. Your router is obviously in this band and getting beat up by a signal it doesn't recognize.
In the case of the lights, you can try higher quality lights as already mentioned. They have better shielding to contain the RF they generate.
In the case of the compressor/powder coater/router, you either need to move them farther apart which usually won't work because you need them in the same space, or you need to look at replacing the with other equipment that either,
1. generates less RF
2. is more immune to spurious RF

The powder coater and air compressor are more important and expensive than the router, so first I'd look into a router operating in a different frequency band, and if that fails, do what the pros do, and put in wired internet.

 

[rockwithjason]

^ what he said

 

[theoldwizard1]

There are two different types of antenna cable, flat two-conductor wire known as “twin lead” that is 300W, ...

Man you must be as old as I am ! I have not heard any one mention "twin lead" in probably more than 20 years !

 

[theoldwizard1]

Fluorescent lights are 'interesting' bits of electrics and electronics to make the 'bulb' light up.

And modern "electronic" ballasts are much worse at creating RFI than old style.

From Wikipedia

Fluorescent lamps are negative differential resistance devices, so as more current flows through them, the electrical resistance of the fluorescent lamp drops, allowing even more current to flow. Connected directly to a constant-voltage power supply, a fluorescent lamp would rapidly self-destruct due to the uncontrolled current flow. To prevent this, fluorescent lamps must use an auxiliary device, a ballast, to regulate the current flow through the tube.​

Electronic ballasts limit the current by using a energy efficient device call a switching power supply. These types of power supplies, by design, generate RFI. If not properly shielded, it will interfere with other equipment.

 

[PRH44]

Man you must be as old as I am ! I have not heard any one mention "twin lead" in probably more than 20 years !

Man sometimes that stuff spills out before you realize it dates you.

 

[Alchymist]

Some of you may remember how we used to put foil on the antenna? That gave us more antenna. Sometimes we would hold it while we watched TV or listen to the radio.
If you have an aluminum sided house it acts as a shield
I am old you just made me realize it

Putting aluminum foil on an antenna did not give "more antenna". The foil acted as a shorted turn in a transformer and actually created a tuned circuit with the twinlead, acting as a filter. Moving the foil up and down on the twinlead changed the tuning of the filter.

Another trick was to tune the antenna by connecting a length of twinlead in parallel with the antenna leads at the receiver, and cutting the end off of the stub 1/4 inch at a time, watching for the signal to increase.

If a receiver has a twinlead input, it is usually 300 ohm balanced cable. To use coax to the antenna, a balun is needed to match the 300 ohm input to the impedance of the coax, and another at the antenna itself.

Not done much anymore, most service is cable.....

 

[PRH44]

Alchymist-- I could have used the twinlead parallel trick as a teen trying to watch the friday night scary movies. The local channel in Indianapolis that carried such things was channel 4 always difficult to receive a clear picture. When something does not work just right or is screwed up the locals in our generation use the phrase " Its channel 4"

 

[sr4440]

for the router, I would put a small UPS on it and call it a day.

Joe

 

[Provincial]

Slacker: does the building have metal roofing and/or siding?