cderalow
Well-known member
The wheel hanger studs?
Those things are great for any german make with wheel bolts. definitely worth $25 for the hassle they save
broke my $135 Hazet socket!
- Thread starter scottmlew
- Start date
The wheel hanger studs?
Those things are great for any german make with wheel bolts. definitely worth $25 for the hassle they save
lwlobo
Well-known member
This is classic design failure. Just because you can design a wheel that requires a completely unique socket doesn't mean you should. This is what happens when a wheel is designed by someone who has never rotated their own tires, or when someone in engineering doesn't have the confidence and stones to stand up to whims of the marketing department.
On the other hand it might be intentional elitism, trying to prevent DIY-ers and non-boutique tire or repair shops from working on these elite cars.
On the other hand it might be intentional elitism, trying to prevent DIY-ers and non-boutique tire or repair shops from working on these elite cars.
Any update on the warranty? What process are you going through to get it handled? Inquiring minds want to know! It may also help other Hazet owners; in future warranty claims...
I contacted A&E through the "contact us" link on their site and they replied quickly saying to mail them the broken socket for a replacement. So I'm optimistic that all will be handled with minimal hassle. I'll keep you all posted!
Yup, that's what I mean. I don't want to give UltGar any ideas, but they're worth way more than they charge ;-)
While I resonate with your point, let's be clear...you CAN work on the wheels very easily using hand tools...the issue arises if you want to use an impact. While this is accepted practice for most wheel/tire work, it's not a requirement! Edit: I should also point out that officially, use of another socket is not condoned by MB, and damage resulting to the wheel from not using the recommended socket would not be covered under warranty.
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HarleyArley
Well-known member
Wow... I read this whole thing and was feeling kind of sorry for you and was thinking, well if its the only thing that will take them off, I guess you have to pay what they ask for the tool.
But if I'm following you, you are actually spending $135 so you can use an impact gun, when a 1/2" breaker bar and any reasonably thin deep well socket would do the job?
Sorta blows all that "gotta have the specialty tools" stuff right out of the water.
Your money and your choice, but I don't really feel sorry for you anymore!
Good luck with your warranty. I hope it goes well for you.
Yes, but more like 75 ft-lbf. Here another torque table.
http://www.spirol.com/library/sub_catalogs/cmpl-Torque_Specifications_us.pdf
Different lube has different coefficient of friction so require different torque to get the same clamping force as the dry torque. There are so many different lubes out there which is why manufacturer do not specify the wet torque. In certain application where lubing is critical, manufacturer will then specify certain lube for the specify torque. If manufacturer does not specify to lube, dry torque is given. The safe thing to do is not to use lube and use manufacturer torque value. Below is a more technical articles. See page 40 (A-5). The different K represent different coefficient of friction. K=0.20 is for dry and K=0.15 is for lubricated.
http://www.fastenal.com/content/documents/FastenalTechnicalReferenceGuide.pdf
William Payne
Well-known member
That does happen! I used to help out in autoshops and a brilliant mechanic I know who does alot of work on german cars told me that alot of specialty fasteners are for that very reason to keep untrained people out.
Lotek
Well-known member
Wow... I read this whole thing and was feeling kind of sorry for you and was thinking, well if its the only thing that will take them off, I guess you have to pay what they ask for the tool.
But if I'm following you, you are actually spending $135 so you can use an impact gun, when a 1/2" breaker bar and any reasonably thin deep well socket would do the job?
Sorta blows all that "gotta have the specialty tools" stuff right out of the water.
Your money and your choice, but I don't really feel sorry for you anymore!
Good luck with your warranty. I hope it goes well for you.
If you don't use the special socket, you run the risk of damaging the wheel even with hand tools, it's the sign of a pro to use the proper tool for the job.
I agree with the statement that it is a design failure to necessitate the use of such a tool, but the requirement for special tools isn't usually an attempt to prevent DIY repairs, more often the engineer has painted himself into a corner and the special tool is to bail his design out.
Remember, you can't be an automotive engineer in good standing unless you have contributed at least one seemingly pointless design change in the past year. Bonus points if it makes the job more difficult or requires a new special tool or procedure.
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Gixerfixer
Well-known member
Maybe I am missing something but what wrong with these http://www.msar-safety.com/detail.asp?p=1210 and here http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SEALEY-SX...t=UK_Air_Tools_and_Compressors&hash=item3a699 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SEALEY-AL...4?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item45feaab please don't flame me if I have missed the point as I have not read all the replies 
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SEALEY-AL...4?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item45feaab please don't flame me if I have missed the point as I have not read all the replies
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Lotek
Well-known member
Maybe I am missing something but what wrong with these http://www.msar-safety.com/detail.asp?p=1210 and here http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SEALEY-SX...t=UK_Air_Tools_and_Compressors&hash=item3a699
You really should have read the thread, the socket that you and everyone else has posted as a cheaper alternative is too short to fit that particular wheel...but thanks for playing.
Gixerfixer
Well-known member
You really should have read the thread, the socket that you and everyone else has posted as a cheaper alternative is too short to fit that particular wheel...but thanks for playing.
Guess i should have
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In your photo on page one, large cracks at 10 and 2 O'Clock, and a hair line crack at 6 O'Clock.
MrMark
Well-known member
What's wrong with the alignment stud that comes with all Mercedes in the tool kits for aligning the wheels? Why the need for an aftermarket piece? I have the Hazet socket like the OP, but normal deep length for normal wheels. It was worth the money, around 35 dollars as I recall.
Good eyes! I honestly hadn't really studied my picture...you can see it pretty well in the pic (now that I've gone back and looked), but even knowing it is there, I can barely see it on the socket itself.
I don't think my car came with one, but now I'll need to double check when the vehicle gets home. This particular model doesn't come with a spare, so perhaps they don't give you the tool either?
Yes, Hazet has a nice set of 3 deep sockets with the protective sleeves and inserts, and iirc, the set of 3 costs the same as one extra long 17mm socket!
e30bradley
Well-known member
Oops lol I guess I forgot how to divide for a minute.. thanks for the info.
dwm
Well-known member
I hadn't thought about it until tonight, but the Schwaben long-reach Protecta socket with built-in extension might work as a substitute. I have this set on my wish list but haven't bought it yet so I can't tell you the diameter of the 17mm end with the sleeve on it.
http://www.schwabentools.com/our-products/details/109/1/sockets/long-reach-protecta-sockets
http://www.schwabentools.com/our-products/details/109/1/sockets/long-reach-protecta-sockets
shanker
Well-known member
The pictures show differently.
Note the drive end is actually larger than sleeve.
I just bought that set this morning and will have to make another trip to town as the 13/16th's will not fit inside the opening on my bonspeed wheels www.bonspeedwheels.com
I'll be calling up the snappy guy next week
billymade
Well-known member
Has anyone bought any of the ECS tuning Schwaben tools? From what I can see they just look like Taiwan rebadged stuff; certainly, not high quality German tools... like the brand name would imply. It looks like they are trying to hit the DIY market specialty tool market with affordable prices. I guess it might be like HF; carefully pick and choose what you buy (e.g. torque wrench looks like typical cheap stuff you see everywhere), if anyone has actually used their tools... would like to hear what you think.
http://schwabentools.com/
http://schwabentools.com/
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billymade
Well-known member
I saw that too; afik, "Schwaben" is just ECS tuning house brand of tools; if this was a long term company... we would know about it! From what I can see its just a rebadger; offshore tools they are selling... ECS Tuning and Schwaben have the same physical company address.
The term "Schwaben" is a cultural, historic and linguistic region in southwestern Germany.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swabia
Good name from a marketing perspective; but I don't have any knowledge of any history of these guys... good brand name for marketing tho..
The term "Schwaben" is a cultural, historic and linguistic region in southwestern Germany.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swabia
Good name from a marketing perspective; but I don't have any knowledge of any history of these guys... good brand name for marketing tho..
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wintermute
Well-known member
What's in the trunk of the car? I would expect to find a suitable set of tools for changing your tires in an emergency – or does it just have a "fix-a-flat" can?
not-required
Well-known member
Probably run-flats
Either the vehicle has run flats and/or has an inflator kit in the trunk. A lot of manufacturers have been deleting the spare tire in favor of an inflator kit.
jensputzier
Well-known member
There are practically two German (or actually European) types of warranty.
The first one is ruled by law. If a dealer sells something new to a consumer there is a two year warranty (repair, replacement or money back, too difficult rules to explain in a short post). The warranty covers all faults that the item had at that time when it was purchased. This do not have to be technical or material problems, but can also be wrong descriptions and so on. This warranty is legally binding between the dealer and the customer.
Main problem is that in the first 6 month is is presumed that the fault was there when the time was sold and the mfg has to prove otherwise. In the 18 months following that the customer has to prove it. Now since you as a customer can hardly prove that something was already broken when you bought it, this practically reduces the warranty to 6 months.
The second warranty is whatever the dealer or manufactures warrants. This can be nothing to anything and this is defined by the company or individual that gives out the warranty. This warranty is legally binding between the one who gives the warranty (in most cases the manufacturer) and the customer.
Both warranties can be valid at the same time and can differ from each other.
To get down to the broken socket:
If you are a European individual (not professional or company) customer and buy this HAZET socket from me and it breaks within the first six months you can:
a) Within the first warranty stated above return it to me and get a repair (obviously not possible here), a refund or a replacement (your choice) from me. You pay the return postage to me.
b) ship it to Hazet as the issuer of the second warranty and get a replacement or repair (obviously not possible here) from them. You pay the return postage to them.
Since these warranties collide with each other, you need to decide first what you want and then act.
As far as Hazet is concerned they give as far as I know a lifetime warranty against material defects, but not abuse.
billymade
Well-known member
jensputzier, thanks for the explanation; I suppose, "abuse" is something that can be interpreted in a number of ways. What has been your experience with Hazet; as a dealer, do they usually warranty your returns? Have you had any rejected from them and had to eat the cost? Warranties are always tough; it seems and many times, depends on the person from the company you are dealing with. I hope in this case; he gets a new one without a problem... thanks again, for the explanation!
bart1
Well-known member
I've posted it here before, but I bought a big Hazet flathead used. Then I used it as a prybar and broke it. But I had a great dealer and when I told him about it, he said don't worry, I'll send you another with your current order.
That dealers name was jensputzier.
That dealers name was jensputzier.
Just fix a flat and an inflator.
Btw I did NOT find one of those wheel alignment tools in my trunk's tool kit.
MrMark
Well-known member
Weird. Did you find any tools? Mine has as I recall, a pair of pliers, a 2 in 1 screwdriver, a couple of wrenches, a fuse puller, a sunroof retracting tool, and the wheel alignment tool that screws in. I never have used it, preferring to just lift the wheel and tire up into place resting it in my lap as I start a few bolts. My wheels aren't that big though.
MrMark
Well-known member
This is it here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-OE...ols&vxp=mtr&hash=item3cc19faa8e#ht_500wt_1264
You can see the alignment tool in there.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-OE...ols&vxp=mtr&hash=item3cc19faa8e#ht_500wt_1264
You can see the alignment tool in there.
Ok, I did a more complete search of the trunk. I did find the wheel alignment tool. The one from Ultimate Garage is much nicer, but I do have one that came with the car. I also had a fuse puller and some fuses and a (relatively short) tire iron, but that's it. No screwdriver, wrenches, or sunroof tool. Thanks for inspiring me to look harder
mtkst19
Well-known member
to answer the schwaben question-- rebrand. here they are sold as atd
http://www.ntxtools.com/network-tool-warehouse/ATD-4368.html
the sockets are 150mm long. actually not a bad price on the atd. 14 bucks a socket.
http://www.ntxtools.com/network-tool-warehouse/ATD-4368.html
the sockets are 150mm long. actually not a bad price on the atd. 14 bucks a socket.
.
What
*Hazet 814-3 Philips Screwdriver
129 $ ?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hazet-814-3...Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item19c7c8ac34
V!
What
*Hazet 814-3 Philips Screwdriver
129 $ ?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hazet-814-3...Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item19c7c8ac34
V!
.
What
*Hazet 814-3 Philips Screwdriver
129 $ ?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hazet-814-3...Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item19c7c8ac34
V!
Who said snap-on is expensive ?
G_P
Well-known member
What ********. If I get a flat I dont want to fill my tire with that nasty slime ****. I want to put the spare on and then either fix the damaged tire myself or go to a shop and get it replaced if its really bad.
But I guess the majority of people that buy expensive high end cars dont even know how to fill the washer fluid so its a moot point.
Its not just high end cars. As i said many manufacturers have begun to delete the spare tire citing "improved fuel economy" as the primary reason. They will however add it back for a price. They also claim systems like onstar and cell phone service have made it redundant and that nobody changes their tire anymore they just call AAA.
The real problem with the inflator kits is they dont always work and cannot seal side wall damage.
dwm
Well-known member
Many of us who own "high end cars" are not wealthy. We're car poor because we have a passion for automobiles or one particular automobile. And many of us know how to take the whole thing apart and put it back together, correctly (including replacing rods, crankshaft, valvetrain, etc.).
We're really no different than the rest of the population when it comes to knowing how to repair our vehicle. In fact, I'd wager a higher percentage of us actively maintain our vehicles than the average of the entire population. Many of us meticulously maintain our cars, or at least the one we spent the most money on.
Skin is correct; the spare tire deletion is a fuel economy thing. And to be honest, I seem to see almost no cars on the side of the road these days with blown tires. Punctures, yes, but not blown tires. It seems we've finally figured out that tires are an important safety item.
A lot of cars ship with runflats these days because they've improved significantly over the last 5 to 10 years. I still don't like them (noisy, etc.) and run non-runflats on my cars, none of which have spare tires. My mobility kit, tire plug kit and AAA card take up a lot less space and weigh a lot less than a spare wheel with tire. If you drive a 2-seater or a compact, it's nice to not have a bunch of space consumed by something you rarely, if ever, will truly need. I've had 3 flats in the last 12 years, and all were easily addressed with a plug until I could have a boot installed. I'd much rather drive on a plugged tire than one of the dramatically undersized spare wheels. One of those flats was on the full-size crew cab, and I chose to plug it on the side of the road rather than put the spare on (which was full-size). To each his/her own.
We're really no different than the rest of the population when it comes to knowing how to repair our vehicle. In fact, I'd wager a higher percentage of us actively maintain our vehicles than the average of the entire population. Many of us meticulously maintain our cars, or at least the one we spent the most money on.
Skin is correct; the spare tire deletion is a fuel economy thing. And to be honest, I seem to see almost no cars on the side of the road these days with blown tires. Punctures, yes, but not blown tires. It seems we've finally figured out that tires are an important safety item.
A lot of cars ship with runflats these days because they've improved significantly over the last 5 to 10 years. I still don't like them (noisy, etc.) and run non-runflats on my cars, none of which have spare tires. My mobility kit, tire plug kit and AAA card take up a lot less space and weigh a lot less than a spare wheel with tire. If you drive a 2-seater or a compact, it's nice to not have a bunch of space consumed by something you rarely, if ever, will truly need. I've had 3 flats in the last 12 years, and all were easily addressed with a plug until I could have a boot installed. I'd much rather drive on a plugged tire than one of the dramatically undersized spare wheels. One of those flats was on the full-size crew cab, and I chose to plug it on the side of the road rather than put the spare on (which was full-size). To each his/her own.
bart1
Well-known member
.
What
*Hazet 814-3 Philips Screwdriver
129 $ ?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hazet-814-3...Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item19c7c8ac34
V!
I know the guy selling that. Hes a really good guy. The VW Toolbox comment is why he has it priced so high. The old VW collectors are nuts for the OE Hazet pieces. I bought my Assistent, some pliers, screwdriver and light for my Assistent from him, all at very good prices.
jensputzier
Well-known member
jensputzier, thanks for the explanation; I suppose, "abuse" is something that can be interpreted in a number of ways. What has been your experience with Hazet; as a dealer, do they usually warranty your returns? Have you had any rejected from them and had to eat the cost? Warranties are always tough; it seems and many times, depends on the person from the company you are dealing with. I hope in this case; he gets a new one without a problem... thanks again, for the explanation!
Well I have pretty good sales with Hazet and actually only 2-3 returns, mostly nothing expensive and they always warranty it. They just recently warranted a damaged Assistent part just from the pictures and even covered the shipping charges to the US. And in the case of Bart who didn't even buy the screwdriver from me, I just pay for it myself. If it stays reasonable I have no problem with that. Warranty cases are the best way to bond to your customers.
Regards
Jens
bart1
Well-known member
Now that's a dealer. I would have gladly paid for the replacement, but Jens said, don't worry about it, I will handle it. I don't buy tons of tools, but whn I do, this man will be right at the top of my list.