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1 bay polished, 2 bays epoxy coated

thudson331

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Hey guys,

first time poster, long time lurker :)

I have been reading quite a bit on here and on welding sites and i think i will be doing an epoxy coat on the 2 car garage and a polished concrete on the single. i plan on doing some DIY welding and cutting so i figure the polished concrete would look could and also function well for this.

Has anyone done a "half & half" garage before? if so please share your thoughts, pictures, etc.

My house should be built by feb 2012 so i wanted to have a plan in place beforehand:beer:
 
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Full Size 66

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Interesting thought to go half-n-half. I am going to have the whole thing polished because I think I will weld in both portions. If your two car is seperated then it would be OK. I think a full polish would be about the same amount by the time you do all the math. My 900 sq.ft. came out about the same. My estimate for the work was $4.00/sq.ft. By the time you figure your time and the high end epoxy with prepare time too; I'd rather let someone else do the work and have a fire proof surface.
 
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thudson331

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yeah that makes sense. i guess the other option is to stain the concrete to have something that looks 'different' than just plain concrete, but still allows me to not worry about burning and melting anything.
 

LegacyIndustrial

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Boys:
Ask your polisher to apply a StainGuard when nearly finished polishing.
It will help lessen stains as you use your garage.

Polished does not mean stain proof.
 
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thudson331

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Thanks Scotty.

I was actually on your website looking at concrete stains and really like the color options and it is more DIY/user friendly than the polishing method.

I will have a (roughly) 600 sqft garage when the house is complete. Considering i want to weld/cut in my garage what would you suggest to be the best stain and seal combination? also what quantities will be required?

Thanks in advance.
 

LegacyIndustrial

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If you are really in love with the hot wrench...
Acid Stain @ 200 sq ft. per gallon and Densifier @ 400 sq ft per gallon (no sheen)

If you weld occasionally and can put some cover on the floor.
Acid Stain and our Standard Epoxy Clear Sealer @ 300 sq ft per gal x 2 coats (satin gloss)

Even if you eat the Epoxy up a bit it won't show as much given the satin finish.
 
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thudson331

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Sweet! i guess the last question i have is if i go with the epoxy clear seal to get the shine and some weld damage does occur, how easy is it to repair down the road?

just thinking ahead of course:thumbup:
 

Full Size 66

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The stain is a nice addition to the extra smooth of a polish job. More the reason for me to polish is a repair of delamination, the cream coat came off in a few spots. All opinions point towards the finisher over working the slab and his timing was off, like too much too late. :shocking: I could be mad but it would do no good.
 
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thudson331

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that *****. well looks like when the time comes i will def be staining and sealing. maybe put some of the non slip in the sealer. either way i think long term it will be the better decision than going with the epoxy coat.
 
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thudson331

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OK Scotty,

Based on what you suggested would these work together:

Concrete Easy Sealer, HD-415
Concrete Easy Stain and Densifier, HD-410
Soft Skid, Anti-skid Additive

Would the anti skid even work or be needed?

Thanks again.
 

LegacyIndustrial

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The easy sealer is very thin. The soft skid is not usually used because of this.
The easy sealer and easy stain work well together.

I wouldn't bother with the densifier (unless especially soft crete) if using the Easy Sealer .
The Easy Sealer becomes the sacrificial layer and will stop dusting, thus eliminating the need for the densifier.
 
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thudson331

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Hey Scotty,

thnaks again for replying. been busy with the house and only just got a chance to see your suggestion.

So really what i need is the:

1xHDstain5gal
1xHD015CLR-2 gal or the 2xHD415

Should be closing the end of Feb and hope to do the garage floor shortly after :thumbup:
 

dcs Inc

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If you are really in love with the hot wrench...
Acid Stain @ 200 sq ft. per gallon and Densifier @ 400 sq ft per gallon (no sheen)

If you weld occasionally and can put some cover on the floor.
Acid Stain and our Standard Epoxy Clear Sealer @ 300 sq ft per gal x 2 coats (satin gloss)

Even if you eat the Epoxy up a bit it won't show as much given the satin finish.

300 sq. ft. a gallon? Can you actually stretch it that thin with a roller? Wow..... Is it a water based product, I could see that. Why on earth would one go through all the trouble to apply that thin of a coat?
 

LegacyIndustrial

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300 sq. ft. a gallon? Can you actually stretch it that thin with a roller? Wow..... Is it a water based product, I could see that. Why on earth would one go through all the trouble to apply that thin of a coat?

Seriously Gene???
Not everyone wants or needs 20 mils of product on the floor. Especially, when the goal is to bring out the color in the floor, seal it well and add a nice gloss.

You tell everyone who will listen how much you know about coatings and I just have to scratch my head after a statement like that.
 

dcs Inc

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Lets look it this way. A common sheet of typing paper is 10 mil thick. A human hair is 2 mil thick. 300 square foot a gallon works out to just over 5 mils thick.

Now lets take a light abrasive like dust, fine sand, dirt... oh pick one, tell me just how long that 2 and a half hair thick application is going to last with a light abrasion. But I digress, you say apply 2 coats at 300 sq. ft. a gallon. (It does look good at a really low cost per sq. ft. of material). Do you think most diy's can apply it evenly at that thin of rate?

Now lets throw in some surface tension caused by a number of reasons, high humidity levels being the most common. For those that don't know what this is, it is caused by applying a viscus material too thinly and the product separates from itself, usually in an elongated "cat eye" type appearance. It pulls apart. I call them cat faces. High humidity levels can cause this even on thicker applications. The weight of the water saturated air pushes down on the epoxy and causes it to pull apart. The thinner the coating, the more it happens. Fix? Apply another coat.

Oh, another thing. For a really good surface bond, the epoxy needs to "bleed into the surface. Most people in the know shoot for a 60 grit sand paper profile on the surface. Your epoxy will never flake, or peal with that type of bond. Suddenly that 5 mil.... OK, 2 coats = 10 mils, you will lose a third of that in absorption.... which is a good thing by the way for adherence.

Scotty, I don't pretend to know a lot as I learn new stuff every day. When I started applying and then selling these types of materials I looked into it and learned as much as I could. I'm just attempting to show that a wearable surface is measured by how long it will withstand abrasion tests. Walking across a floor will abrade it. At 5 mils, you will see your path pretty quickly.

Wonder why your tire decided to steal your epoxy and take it with him? A couple of reasons. Poor prep work, (acid etching hardly ever works) or plasticizer migration. This little gem is caused mostly with acrylic sealers. There is a chemical in black rubber that "migrates" with certain chemicals in some sealers. This happens with your lesser quality epoxies. There's one that I really can not figure out how they say it is an epoxy. It's mentioned on this board often. It comes from the painting world and for the life of me I don't know how they legally can get away with calling their paint an epoxy.

The problem is there are no regulations. Even when a manufacture states it's 100% solids, sounds good but some products sold have inert solids, they do nothing for the quality, longevity, clarity, abrasion resistance, UV resistance, chemical resistance, basically they are in the mix so the manufactures can say that their product is 100%. Now there are additives that allow the product to self level better, blend easier, resist moisture better during application, (pesky bubbles) and basically make it user friendly. Some at a cost of being soft, scratch easy, are not water clear. Sorry, this is getting too long. Wasn't jumping on you Scotty, some people don't give a **** about all of this and only want a shiny floor. gene
 

LegacyIndustrial

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Gene:
I don't disagree there are benefits to a thicker mil surface. However, budget, look and traffic patterns all come into play. Frankly much of the product we sell to the DIY crowd is over-kill. Our formulations were designed around heavy industrial traffic and even the most diligent weekend warrior isn't going to replicate that type of traffic.

As far as application skills go... the people we talk to everyday have never done this before and the concept of mils thickness and sq. ft per gallon is not readily understood. But the results they shoot back to me are amazing for one-time installers.

Lastly, we quoted 85K sq ft. yesterday of the same system to a food company in NJ. They used this system in the last warehouse they renovated and love it.

A major eyeglass frame manufacturer (Northern NJ) used this system way back in 1998 (40K sq ft) , provided by yours truly, and guess what, nothing but foot traffic and it still looks great.

Proof is in the pudding.
 

dcs Inc

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Well good for you! I wish you the best. Elite Crete's chemist tells me a lot of things about other manufactures coatings. By the way, "industrial" is way over abused in this industry. To what parameters are set by that wording? It is assumed that it means "heavy duty", longer lasting?
Anyway.... that's just a little pet peeve of mine.

I was just explaining thickness and relating that to longevity of wear.
Good come back by the way. gene, elite crete Indiana
 
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thudson331

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You guys need a room

LOL! I will take the good with the bad as this is what a forum is for.

Gene,

I am not going to epoxy coat my garage anymore. I just want to stain and seal it. I am open for suggestions, tips, etc.
 

dcs Inc

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You have a couple options with coloring the concrete. I'll attempt to explain these without writing a book.

Water or solvent based stains. Water based you have reactive acid stains that actually color the concrete by chemically reacting to the free lime in the surface paste. The surface has to be open enough for the carrier, (diluted muriatic acid) to break the surface for the metallic salts to react to the lime. It's works like how rust discolors metal.

You have water based stains that basically lay on the surface and then there are dyes. Dyes have been mostly solvent based (inks). I'm seeing water based dyes hitting the market now but I haven't seen them used long enough to give you my impressions yet.

Reactive or topical. Topicals are OK if the surface is open for them to absorb into the surface. You have to understand the molecular structure of a water based stain verses a solvent based product. It's like a basketball verses a marble on the size difference of of molecules. The solvent based products will penetrate better because of it's smaller foot print.

Solvent based dyes for the most part are not UV resistant so they will fade over time if subjected to direct sunlight. Water based dyes.... not sure (yet).

Now there are products out there that are basically paint. they call them by different names but paint is paint. On a broom finished driveway..... they"may" hold up for awhile. On a smooth surface, Run Forest Run.

If you can break the surface I vote for reactive acid stains. It's tricky to apply but will give the longevity. Now lets talk about topical sealers.

What ever you apply, you need to protect it. A good thin mil urethane would be the least expensive. Go for an 85 % solids solvent based as this is a long lasting topical. Don't use the cheap **** as it will wear fast and could yellow and peal.

Your other choice would be a penetrating sealant. I'm not a big fan of these as they do lock the color down but they don't give you any surface protection.

I really didn't answer your question, just explained what's out there. Some are more translucent than others, some you can scratch off with your finger nail if applied on a tightly finished floor.

Your other choices would be a water based thin mil epoxy. Not nearly as expensive as the high solids epoxy. Of course they are not as long lasting as a high build, high solids epoxy. gene, elite crete of Indiana
 
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